Young Justice (animation)/Headscratchers

• How come so little about Earth 16 history is unknown?
  • I assume you mean how little is known and the answer would be that the show is still only in its first season.

• Artemis is The Mole, really? I don't think so. We're talking about Greg Weisman here; it would be too obvious. The villain in the "Infiltrator" episode threatened to reveal Artemis' identity. If she was working for the Light, why would she threaten her?.
  • Remember that Superboy's purpose is to replace superman if he perishes or if he turns from the LIGHT?. Nothing wrong with that right? Until you realize the villain's group name is The Light.
  • For me The Mole will be Miss Martian. In the comics, she's a White Martian with implented memories and was a villain in the future (not that she hadn't to fight her darkside in the present all the time). Besides she uses that amazing adult voice in "Welcome to Happy Harbor" and it would be really a waste to not hear it more often.
  • Regarding the original entry, do keep in mind that the target audience isn't familair with the comics. Besides with Artemis, since her comic counterpart actually is a villain, DC would have the least problems with her. If it see Superboy or Miss Martian, then it'll probably end up like Superboy's counterpart in the comics during the "Insiders" arc or Hawkgirl in Justice League and thus resist/betray the Light in the end. Otherwise DC would probably pull rank like they have before and say "You can't use this character in this way."
  • Could be Red Tornado. But anyway if it's Miss Martian, why does the Martian Manhunter back her story?
    • It's Red Tornado.
    • "Humanity" says otherwise. Try Fake Defector instead. Red Tornado wanted to protect the team and find his creator.
  • Artemis? Too obvious. This troper still believes that it's Superboy albeit unknowingly. Considering how Crazy Prepared the Light are, they probably have a Trigger Phrase or something that makes Superboy turn against his friends and the League; wait until he's wormed his way into the superhero community before getting him to destroy it from the inside out (lucky that his girlfriend is a telepath which combined with The Power of Love is probably how they'll break him out of the mind control).
    • Artemis does look like a red herring after the most recent episodes. With the new conference between Red Tornado, Aqualad, Robin, Red Arrow and Batman, I'd place my bets on either Megan or Superboy but I'm leaning towards Miss Martian since she freaked out when Black Canary said that she had turned white during the shrink session with Black Canary.
  • Given that both Robin and the entire Justice League appear to know exactly who Artemis really is, it would be quite a shock indeed if she turned out to be The Mole as it means outplayed every single one of them. It is far more likely to be Superboy, especially since The Light hinted that the mole was planted in their very first appearance, which was before either Artemis or Miss Martian showed up (though its possible they just meant they had set up their inclusions to the team in the then-near future).
  • For that matter, who says there even is a mole? It could easily be misinformation to divide the team.
• Jossed, Jossed, all of it's Jossed. It's actually Red Arrow. Nice work, writers! Not a single Headscratcher about it.

• Why does everyone think that Robin is somehow destined to lead the group? Yes he has more experience but he's by far the youngest and a big smartass.
  • Because he's the partner to Batman. He's got the most skill, the most brains and the most experience and training. Also Genre Savvy regarding the comics?
  • In other words, the rest of the team seems to place a lot of value on his experience. This makes more sense depending on how little experience they have; if it's next to none (possibly the case for Miss Martian and certainly for Superboy), or at most very little, then Robin's experience should be that important. Unfortunately we haven't really seen that kind of discrepancy.
    • This doesn't make a lot of sense since he has experience but it's not the most useful experience for the situations he has to deal with. He doesn't have experience being on a team for one thing and there's no saying that by the time Robin is "ready to lead" his other teammates won't have a comprable level of experience and training. It could be argued that all Robin actually has is a head start when it comes to super-heroing but that any of the team members could catch up to him.
  • It's worth noting that Robin is the most ambitious and tends to set their goals whereas the rest of the team defaults to "this looks suspicious; let's go back". He also tends to see the bigger picture. These qualities don't really stand out much though given they're currently only a recon team and are tasked with simple objectives.
  • Aqualad makes more sense as a leader. I'm a bit annoyed with Robin's apparent destiny of leadership when Aqualad clearly has things in hand.
  • Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you want it. To me, it seems Aqualad is just fine not being leader. He doesn't really have any drive to be a leader. Robin does. Robin has ambition and experience.
    • Not anymore...
  • The Dick Grayson and Tim Drake versions of Robin both led the Teen Titans and Tim led the comic book version of Young Justice. (Although personally I thought it was obvious they were setting Aqualad up to be the leader from the pilot).
  • I figured that it was more about Aqualad being modest about his ability to lead as he didn't volunteer like Kid Flash or assume he'd be like Robin.
  • Can we say that Dick Grayson is highly known for his natural leadership skills? He might still need to learn how to control impulses and lose some immaturity (which is justified since he's only thirteen here) but it's been present. Heck; the pilot itself has him act first and think quickly while the rest look on with dumbfounded faces.
    • Yeah; it's kind of ironic that Dick Grayson (who's been doing the leader thing for nearly 60 years and currently heads the Justice League in the comics) of all people has to be second-guessed on his leadership skills because there had to be a reason for Aqualad to be written in as the leader...at least for now. Granted Aqualad is more qualified at the moment but the whole thing was handled less than optimally.
  • The episode when they finally establish the leader also is a huge display on his part. He gets the information they needed and then confronts the boss only to be called back by his team but not before he takes the enemy's transport out of commission. He just seems a step ahead of everybody else and only needs to learn how to slow down and explain the plan to the team. Under Aqualad's leadership, he still saves the day as shown in Artemis' debut. Superboy gets taken out and it is up to him to stop the destruction of his adoptive father's company. He saves the day.
    • In "Bereft", with Aqualad KO'd, Robin takes over almost automatically. He might not have experience dealing with this sort of team but he's learning fast.
    • Then again in "Homefront," he orchestrates a rescue and seems to be again two steps ahead of everyone. But this time he calms Artemis down from a panic while remaining completely unfazed by the chaos.
    • Once again in "Failsafe," As soon as Aqualad "dies", Robin takes charge and no one questions him. They all trust in his experience and knowledge so it's not that weird to assume he'll eventually lead the team one day.
  • While Robin does seem to be a jerkass often in this show, he was almost just as annoying in the main DCU in the beginning too and (As Nightwing) is considered to be the heart of the DCU and the only hero anyone would follow bravely into any unknown. He'll probably grow into this in the this canon also.

• Is it racist of me to wonder why there's a black gilled humanoid? What good is melanin deep underwater where sunlight barely penetrates? Shouldn't he (and Aquaman for that matter) be really pale?
  • I don't think it's racist. Maybe there is an artificial sun in Atlantis?
  • In the comics, the character is only half-Atlantean. His father is classic Aquaman villain Black Manta. We'll see if it pans out the same way in the cartoon.
    • Word of God confirms that it is.
  • And let's be fair here: now we've seen Atlantis, somehow it DOES seem to get plenty of light. It makes basically no sense anyway so what's one more thing?
  • In Downtime, Kaldur appears to be the only black Atlantean; his skin color might be a clue to his real parentage
    • However Greg has said that Kaldur lives in a different city than Aquaman.
  • Atlanteans in Young Justice are really, really diverse, some have fins, tails, green and blue skintones and tons of other differences. Kaldur being black probably doesn't even register.

• The League's handling of Amazo made no sense:
  • Why not just destroy the darn thing? I can only assume they wanted it analyzed in case they needed a countermeasure if there were more Amazos.
  • Why have it studied in normal laboratories as opposed to the League Headquarters? Wouldn't it be safer there (and have better equipment?)
  • Finally why the truck convoys; why couldn't Superman or The Flash drop the parts by themselves (in seconds too.)
    • You have a good point but bringing Amazo to the League Headquarters would've ended badly, as he was being tracked.
    • Not to mention that as indicated by the end of the episode, they were far more concerned with finding Ivo, the man that could build MORE and stronger Amazos than to deliver the pieces of a single prototype.
      • I think the reason why Amazo was sent to Stars Labs might had to do with the fact that in this reality. The league is out in the public more and are virtually celebrities and so to maintain good public relations. I'm assuming they send their super villains tech to private/public companies instead of the Watchtower among many other things.
    • I think they sent it via truck convoy to be less conspicuous. If Superman and the Flash went on this mission it would be all over the news. If Young Justice does it, no one knows about it and there's less chance someone might try to steal the android ('course, they didn't know Ivo could track the parts, but still).

• Is Miss Martian a White Martian still? I know J'onn calls her his niece but that could just a nickname/cover up sort of thing. I always kinda felt her rejection of her heritage was a big part of her character and it bugs me to think they might have gotten rid of such a cool factoid.
  • It was a major reveal at the time in the comics if you'll recall...not part of her introduction. Give it time.
  • The official site also says that she uses her shapeshifting to conceal her true appearance which can easily be interpreted as a point in favor of the idea that they're going with this.
    • Or that she simply has a more alien real appearance. Green Martians in their true forms don't look like humans with green skin, after all.
  • We already have a character posing as a Leaguer's niece. Why can't we have another?
  • After seeing episode 06, I totally agree with you guys now. The hiding her true form thing plus the fact Artemis is posing as Arrow's niece too coupled with her distaste of her Martian family (notice how she reacted when she mentioned her Martian sisters when talking to Artemis?) leads me to believe they left it in! Yay!
  • I don't know...In "Bereft," she has no memory of coming to Earth yet still refers to the Martian Manhunter as "Uncle J'onn." Unless she's a very quick thinker who instantaniously decided to pretend to be his niece, I don't find that too likely.
    • Uncle is a term of affection as much as one of relation and if she'd known J'onn since at least before March, it could merely be that she refers to him as such is all.
  • This was heavily hinted at in "Targets" with Megan's "...of course I'm Green".
    • Before Megan says that, she mentions that the White Martians are treated as second-class citizens by the Green Martians. I'm not a comic book expert but aren't White Martians portrayed as being vicious bloodthirsty warriors in the comics? Either the portrayals of Green Martians and White Martians have been reversed in the show or Megan was lying.
    • They're not mutually exclusive. They could be treated as second-class citizens because they're bloodthirsty warriors.
  • As of "Disordered", I'm calling it Confirmed. The way she freaks out at the idea of turning White...
    • For this troper, until it's directly stated in the show, "M'gann is a White Martian," she'll assume that M'gann is supposed to be a Green Martian in this continuity. M'gann's minor freakout in "Disordered" over Black Canary's "You've turned white" comment can easily be explained by her being worried that she's losing control of her shapeshifting just as she lost control of her mental powers during the telepathic simulation in "Failsafe."
      • There's one minor problem with explaining M'gann's freakout over the "You've turned white" comment as her being worried about losing control of her shapeshifting: she calms down very quickly when she sees Black Canary meant Caucasian but turning Caucasian wouldn't be that much less of an indicator of losing control of her shapeshifting than turning literally white. Well...unless her natural colour was white but that would indicate that she is a White Martian.
  • As of "Image", Confirmed. She's a White Martian. It was hinted that she might be fighting her darker nature, but she mostly seems afraid of showing her rather hideous form.
    • I think she's a White Martian adopted into a Green Martian family. It would explain her lonely childhood and self-image as a Green Martian, and make her Martian Manhunter's literal, but not biological, niece.
    • This troper suspects that she is both at the same time: Her biological parents are Black Sheep Malefic and a White Martian mother, and she was adopted by a couple that includes one of J'onn's other siblings.
    • Word of Greg Weisman is that M'gann is J'onn's biological niece- she was born to a Green Martian mother (J'onn's sister) and a White Martian father. And most of her siblings are Green Martians- except M'gann herself and 1 brother.

• In Infiltrator, why Wally has to go to school but Dick doesn't?
  • They live in different cities and I'm pretty sure in different states. Wally's school year could easily have started earlier than Dick's.
    • What's more; this was Wally's first day of class. Makes this explanation much more likely.
    • The School Year starts at different times in the United States? For real? I didn't know that; I actually kinda thought it might have something to do with Wally being in High School and Dick in Middle School.
      • Actually, Dick is a freshman in high school, as stated by Weisman. According to Word of God, he hasn't skipped any grades. Seems like he's one of those kids who start school almost a year younger than nearly everyone else in the same grade.
      • The United States is a really big place with many different school districts who make their own policy. Plus there's the difference between private and public school: each private school can set their own vastly different dates for the first day of school.
      • American school districts generally start and end within a certain window but that window is fairly wide. For example, my cousins in the Midwest tend to start school in early to mid August and get out in early to mid May. My old school on the east coast always starts the Tuesday after Labor Day (which is sometimes in the second week of September) and gets out in mid to late June. This even continues in college: I've had friends start school as early as July or as late as September.
    • Maybe Dick has a GED as part of all his training under Bruce? Can't be an awesome detective without a basic education after all...
      • Nope; he specifically says in the Amazo episode that the final fight scene takes place at his school after which we cut to a picture of him winning some kind of trophy before it gets destroyed in the fight.
        • A maths trophy.
        • Come to think of it, that one actually explains the delay. Robin's school is being rebuilt after YJ fought Amazo there!
  • Plus Dick goes to the Gotham Academy which seems to be quite a prestigious private school (Artemis needed a scholarship to go there) and they tend to set their own schedules.

• What color as Artemis' eyes? They look blue sometimes and black at others. The series doesn't look like one of those series where the characters have Black Eyes in replacement for their actual eye colors like basically every cartoon until recently. Also she's human and she has black eyes? Everyone else has remotely normal eye colors.
  • There are such things as contact lenses that change your eye color.
    • Why would she be wearing contacts? Maybe the blue eyes were a beta-idea.
  • They look to me like the normal kind of Asian eyes that look black but are really dark brown. Though Bruce Wayne on the other hand seems to have Black Eyes here too...
  • According to Greg, she was never supposed to have blue eyes and officially they're a very dark gray...almost black. Unfortunately both the production artwork and the tie-in comic gave her blue eyes on accident.
  • Greg also confirmed Bruce Wayne has brown eyes in Young Justice.

• Why does the team so rarely wear their costumes? Even if they're supposed to be covert, it doesn't make sense for them to wear civilian clothing on missions like the AMAZO escort in "Schooled" or the Dr. Fate check-up in "Denial." They aren't even trying to hide their identities. It's less of an issue for Miss Martian, Superboy and Aqualad and Robin at least has his sunglasses. But Kid Flash doesn't hide any of his face and in "Denial," he ran into Abra Kadabra, a Flash Rogue. There's no way that shouldn't come back to bite him.
  • They only wear their costumes when they are dealing with their own. Plus Wally isn't exactly a well-known public figure so it won't bite him as much as Dick Grayson, the adopted son of well known billionaire, Bruce Wayne.

• Seems like The Worf Effect is setting in on Superboy awfully early. Mister Twister and Blockbuster I can understand giving him some trouble but Clayface? In a training simulator?
  • It wasn't a simulation; the flash of light was the teleporter bringing the team back to base. As for the Clayface fight, it happened offscreen so it's up to your imagination how he beat Superboy (though I recall that DCAU Clayface was all but indestructible unless he got hit with enough water...)
  • It's actually explained later in the series. Superboy is only half-Kryptonian, so he lacks the ability to use most of Superman's powers and can't match his physical strength.
• For that matter, how did Clayface managed to defeat Robin? Robin probably has fought against Clayface plenty of times with Batman and knows his weak spots.
  • Yeah; I was a little puzzled by that too since Batman beat him with a taser that looked exactly like the one Robin used against Superboy in the pilot.
  • Why would Batman allow any training to be that easy and have the same weak spots that Robin already knows about?
  • Training? I got the impression it was an actual mission. After all if it was a training stimulation, why would Batman need to jump in to help? Why couldn't he just stop/pause the stimulation?
  • Rewatched the episode. The sudden shift of location in that sequence made me think that it was a simulation. I was wrong. Regardless Clayface may have just been on point that battle.
  • Also possible that Batman's element of surprise from his Dynamic Entry was a factor. Thus far the team has done a God-awful job of keeping hidden until they attack. Clayface could have dodged and taken out Robin's taser.
  • Judging by the Tie-In comic covers, we'll get an answer in issue 12
    • Here's the Solicitation for the issue in question. Assuming that it's accurate to what happens in the issue, there's the answer to the question: Robin hadn't fought Clayface before and Clayface is a newly-created villain in this universe.
      • Easily explained all around then. There have been multiple villains taking the name Clayface, generally with a power-set consistent to Clayface II. Some have been more adept or vulnerable concerning these powers.
    • The entire battle leading up to the beginning of "Downtime" is portrayed in issue 13 of the comics - the Team were unaware of Clayface's shapeshifting abilities, so he took them out one by one by pretending to be different members of the Team. He took out Robin by becoming two KFs, and Robin assumed that one was an imposter and therefore the other was real, allowing Clayface to trick him and take him by surprise.

• When did Megan start liking Conner? I started shipping the pairing as a Crack Pairing in the second episode; it seemed like they'd be friends and nothing more. Come the next episode and she's crushing.
  • I've always thought that Megan started liking Superboy in the second episode, what with her commenting shyly about liking his T-shirt.

• This is obviously more of an issue with the comic universe but what's an Atlantean doing with a human name like Garth?
  • I could chalk that up to two cultures have coincidental similarities. "Yuri" is a male name in Russian and female in Japanese for example. And Superman's Kryptonian name is Hewbrew for "right hand of God".
  • Culturally, yes; it could be a coincidence, but, linguistically- it makes no sense. With names like Orin, Orm, Tula, Kaldur'ahm, Sha'lain'a, Mera and Topo, Garth is really jarring. Doesn't match with what I assume are the standard phonemes of the naming system, or Greek for that matter. Furthermore their language is based off of ancient Greek yet their names are so un-Greek sounding it comes across as Narm. Is there some ancient Atlantean language that got replaced by Greek where their naming system derives from? Are their dialects or different languages throughout the kindgom? It'd be nice if Word of God could expound upon this.
  • Well, from a Doylist perspective, it's a continuity nod to the comics - Garth was Aqualad in the original Teen Titans comics in 1964, with a line up that also included Dick Grayson, Wally West, and Roy Harper.

• Batman has to know who Aqualad's dad is and what Artemis's history is. Why else would he insist that Robin keep his identity secret? He is Batman, people. What I don't get is why is he hiding this from Robin or Kid Flash?
  • Because he's Batman. He likely has good logical reasons for divulging such information since he's likely got it covered. Heck; he might not even think it really matters who is whose daddy or how checkered one's past is as long as they're fighting the good fight.
    • Also anyone aware of Robin's identity also means they'd know Batman's. And while this version of Bruce is for the most part a reasonable human being, he's still shifty enough for one to believe that he doesn't fully trust metahumans as per his counterpart in the comics.
      • As of "Secrets", it's apparent he does know all about Artemis' identity, but nothing is said on Kaldur. So that means that Batman does tell him some things. Then again, He's Batman, so we all know he knows that Wally knows who Robin is. So he would probably withhold some things, out of a fear that Robin would blab to his Bestie.
        • It's more likely that Robin figured out who Artemis was on his own than that Batman told him.

• I thought it was a bit reckless for Megan to just leave the unconscious Aqualad who was in serious condition and the others (two members were either low on energy or almost out of ammunition) on their own while she went off to save Superboy. Yes; Superboy was in danger and being tortured but would it have hurt to at least communicate with the others and come up with some sort of plan as a team?
  • Teenagers. Whattaya gonna do? Love (or a crush in this case) makes you stupid.
  • This troper completely agrees with the above statement. Robin was the only one who was capable of fending them in a fight whereas Artemis was crippled by her lack of arrows and Kid Flash by his low energy. None of them knew Aqualad's condition (he's been passed out for at least 24 hours) and how seriously it could have changed for him; also he's their LEADER. Megan decides to forgo all logic and reasoning so she could pursue someone without the support of her team (or even supporting them) or without knowing what took their memories away before. She rushed into the heart of a military operation to save someone who was far away rather than supporting the person right in front of her because she was fueled by selfishness and emotion. Almost reminds me of what Kakashi said to Sakura during the bell test.
    • Absolutely nothing in the episode indicates it was her crush. She saw a teammate being tortured and screaming with nobody to help and decided to go help. Meanwhile 'just' Robin is still someone for Aqualad to have. Acting like risking herself to save a teammate is selfish is completely ridiculous.
    • I was bugged over the idea that she wasn't called out on it. What she did was incredibly irresponsible but it was perfectly okay because she saved the day. Now maybe they're saving this up for a future episode where her teammates will refer to her past actions but for now I'm just bugged that pulled a stunt like that without any consequences.
    • It should also be noted that other people justify her actions because Superboy was in a "more dire" situation.
      • How is it values dissonance to prioritise being tortured (when he's not indestructible) over being ill however severely so? Torture is pretty freaking dire.
    • He's freakin' indestructible; he'd have been fine if they had waited a little longer to rescue him.
    • He was also being freaking tortured.
      • With no idea who he was or what was happening to him. A problem that only Megan could solve unlike Aqualad.
      • Yeah; she was the only one who could fight the memory loss making the security of her head top priority for the team. The way she ran off without back up could have easily ended with her losing her memory again and leaving the team down the only superpowered member who was functioning. Superboy may be able to feel pain but he has yet to have been physically hurt over the long term. He was being tortured but unless they had Kryptonite, he wasn't in any danger of permanent damage or death like Aqualad at the time. The most responsible thing to have done would've been to regroup and think out a plan to save Superboy with the team instead of charging in.
      • Decision making is a lot easier when you're sitting in your home as opposed to in the desert having just recovered from six months of memory loss and hearing your crush tortured in your mind.
        • Not to mention a fairly large part of this show is their comparative inexperience. The team in general doesn't make perfect decisions 100% of the time; we can't expect to see every single example held up as reprehensible or that would basically be the whole show.
        • My guess why this particular instance rubbed people the wrong way was because Megan's emotional decision put the mission and the rest of the team at risk instead of just herself. Her choice could have lead to disaster for everyone and I think she should have at least been called out on it to show it was the wrong decision to make.
          • • But it wasn't. If she hadn't done what she'd done, Superboy could have been kidnapped by evil scientists. He could have been tortured to death. He could have escaped and killed someone in a way that might have been traumatising to realise when she restored his mind. Compared to leaving Aqualad in one completely functioning and two semi-functioning heroes' hands when he had a less pressing issue to worry about...when Superboy had nobody at all? How is that the wrong decision? As to all this emotional/crush/etc. stuff, the show doesn't support that particularly; there's nothing to say she wouldn't have done the same for anyone...especially any teammate...being brutally tortured. Also Kid Flash did the same thing for much less reason in Drop Zone when he revealed everyone after going to look for Robin, jepordizing the mission by preventing stealth. I don't see a long Just Bugs Me for that.
          • It was the wrong decision because they still had no idea how they had lost their memories. For all Megan knew, she was walking right into another memory lose situation where she'd have been useless to both Superboy and the team (something Robin yelled after her when she bolted). Superboy is a clone of Superman; he's indestructible so he wasn't going to die anytime soon. The best way to have saved him without putting the mission and the team at risk (because if they lost Megan, they probably wouldn't have a way to retreat) would have been to consult with the team and come up with a strategy. Kid Flash's screw up in Drop Zone (Sorry they both had D's in the title) was less serious IMO because the team was intact and not in crisis like it was in Bereft. Everyone was at a hundred percent and they had a means of retreat if they had too, not so in this situation.
          • Except...judging from the end results, it really wasn't the wrong decision. People can write paragraphs on why it wasn't but they can't deny that the actual results of the decision she made weren't the most ideal outcome.
            • • Except that actually since Superboy is way less powerful than Superman and can be hurt easily by random robotic monkeys, that...doesn't really apply. And again it may not have been the best plan in the history of the universe but as a quickfire decision when every second counted, it doesn't deserve to get vilified; certainly no more than the many mistakes most everyone on the team has at some point made and gotten away with. Also in Drop Zone (...Downtime, what?), Wally revealed their position in a stealth mission for no reason at all when he knew Robin regularly did the whole 'disappearing act' thing and was likely fine. He nearly got them all killed and threw the entire thing. It's hard for non-speedsters to be confident they can retreat from unprepared for gunfire.
              • Aqualad's survival is debatable; it's only "Okay" since we know the outcome but at that point in time, there was no way for other to tell whether he would have survived any longer. Kid Flash was faulty for reckless acting in his pursuit of Robin but he wasn't overly consumed by his emotions towards another team member (or anyone else really) to let it override his reasoning. A huge problem is that Megan could have helped Aqualad first and could have ensured he was stabilized rather than leaving him with her other teammates who may have been capable of handling him somewhat but not when they're depowered and have a milita on their tails. I'm not saying what Megan did should not have happened but it really should have been pointed out to her that her behavior was completely inappropriate for their mission. If the bioship was too far out of range for her to call it back, what would have ensured that the team had found it soon thus avoiding the Biyalian milita and Aqualad suffering from severe dehydration and the risk of heatstroke? Most likely it's invisible since the Biyalians are ont hr prowl so why did Megan think leaving her other three teammates to fend for themselves and waltzing into a dangerous situation to save one teammate was such a good idea? The argument of Superboy's suffering is only justified if her other teammates could avoid a similar fate: Aqualad was suffering too and there's no way you should be able to say "oh; he wasn't in the same type of pain as Superboy!" because he's an Atlantean...who has been in the desert...for around 24 hours. Who knows what else could have happened had she failed and lost to Psimon like she did the first time? Who knows what would have happened had the Biyalians found the other three?
                • Aqualad's survival was no more debatable than Superboy's. If Megan hadn't rushed off, who knows what would have happened to him? Even if his captors hadn't killed him, they could have reprogrammed him or just up and left and took him out of Megan's range in the meantime. And Superboy had zero other people to help him to Aqualad's three.
  • There were three people with Aqualad who did in fact manage to get him back just fine. Superboy was on his own, kidnapped. By the time she got back to him, they might have taken him away and then what do they do? Bearing in mind he's not indestructable and has shown to be hurt, was being tortured had lost his mind (literally) and was a danger to others around him if he got out...which is more important: preventing his immediate kidnapping and torture or *helping with* Aqualad's less immediate health problems when three other people were there? To say it's fine to leave Superboy with nobody but that leaving Aqualad with three people is wrong...makes no sense. She wasn't prioritising Superboy; she was avoiding prioritising Aqualad. 'Sides it's not the first time; Wally did the same thing in Drop Zone.
  • Wow; this thread just bugs me. I mean let's look shall we? Megan is "overemotional", incapable of caring about anything but her crush, needs to be punished for making a decision that saved the day and made sense with the information she had to hand since all she really knew was that Supes was being tortured and had no mind and that Aqualad had Rob/Art/KF to look after him. Bearing in mind that without a leader and as the only one with access to all the information she had to basically make her own splitsecond decision. Meanwhile like said above, Wally gets excused for making the exact same mistake without the justification. Unfortunate Implications much, guys? Think about it. Maybe the fandom's made me jaded but geez. Yeah. Those overemotional girls with their girly crushes saving people from...Er...being tortured and kidnapped.
    • I think the trope you're looking for is Double Standard. Wonder if the Fan Dumb would criticize Megan for going to save Superboy if she was a guy?
      • This troper would then feel that the action was completely random and uncoordinated...at least lacking the same type of justification that love/crushing could provide.
      • It atleast calls for What the Hell, Hero? on the main page after all the rest of YJ DID call her out on it. But it's a really tough decision. On the one hand you have Aqualad who is dying of dehydration and has no memories but has 3 friends to help him; on the other hand, we have Superboy who is litterly a mindless animal, being tortured, and screaming out in pain. Who do you save: the starving teammate with 3 friends or the dying teamamte who had his mind erased and cant even think?
        • The difference between Kid Flash and Miss Martian is that Kid Flash was called out for his crap immediately afterwards. Miss Martian never was so the situation is looked at a lot worse.
        • And how do you know Megan didn't get chewed out by Batman once they got back to base?
        • And how do you know she did? This whole thing is entirely subjective and can be best summed up as this? Was it the right thing to do? Debatable. Did she think things through? Personally no but again debatable. Should she be called out for her actions? Yeah. Did it work out in the end? Yes. I think we're all forgetting the idea behind Young Justice, key word being Young. They're new at this (working in a team environment rather than a partnership or even less in Megan's case) so of course they're going to make rookie mistakes. Otherwise wouldn't they be good enough to be in the Justice League by now?
        • Uh...guys? I think we're all forgetting something: Megan already did something like this for someone who wasn't Superboy. In Infiltrator, she ditched Artemis to save Kid Flash from drowning. I guess abandoning your teammate to save someones life is wrong when that someone is a love interest.
          • Different case. Artemis was fully armed and not in danger of dying when Megan went to save Kid Flash. Aqualad was dying and was protected by one out of energy Fragile Speedster, one Badass Normal without her equipment and one Badass Normal who is not going to be able to stand up to tanks without some serious firepower. Additionally it's still debatable about whether or not Superboy would have died if she hadn't shown up.
        • Just to summarize: It bugs some people that Megan makes emotional decisions when it comes to rescuing people and that's okay. The Unfortunate Implicationss and Double Standards associated with this bug other tropers and that's okay. We're only what...ten?...episodes into this series so let's not rip ourselves apart so soon, okay? =)
  • This thread is a waste of space. Yes; Megan leaving on her own to go rescue Superboy was reckless. That was pointed out in the episode itself. This Troper got the impression that she was just reacting to feeling someone who was in pain in her head. She should have at least waited to get a bit of a plan together but she reacted on instincts to save someone who was being tortured. This Troper also got the impression that Megan would have reacted the same way if any of the other people on the team were the one(s) being hurt. It's just a part of Megan's characterization that she will act without thinking clearly when it comes to trying to help someone.
  • I'm just a little bit shocked that this was worth arguing about. Jesus Christ.
  • Something that bears noting: M'gann was the only member of the team with the skills necessary to successfully rescue Conner. Any of the others would have been unable to combat Psimon's powers. If she had brought backup when she went to save Conner, who knows what Psimon could have made them do? Regardless of her motivations or the objective recklessness of her actions, in hindsight it was the best decision to produce the best result.
  • I have a few questions
    • Why did they take Kaldur to the desert if he's so easily crippled by it? If you must take him, why weren't he and the rest of them carrying extra water? They'd only been there 24 hours...not 24 days. Why not paracute a large amount of water in? They also paracuted in that huge communications thing so a few liters of water should have been no problem.
    • I assume the issue wasn't solely being in the dessert. They were originally there for minor recon at night but after the mindwipe, he was most likely disoriented and wandering for hours until daytime in which he was baking in the sun. I don't think it was simply the dessert but a series of bad situations that lead to his predicament.
    • Why is Megan's alleged screw up worse than all the others? Dick and Wally rush off. Conner rushes in. Artemis (My fave by the way) lets Chessire, a professional killer go rather than face an awkward explanation to her friends. Kaldur has lead the team into some serious smackdowns (And forgot to bring his own damn water).
    • Why wasn't the bio-ship stealth parked next to that black thing that paracuted in? In fact, why didn't they leave the black thing in there? If they were going to be in the desert for more than a day Kaldur would have appreciated having somewhere to rest out of the sun.
    • Finally why do people think Superboy is totally invulnerable? In the comics, he, Superman and Supergirl have all been killed at some point. We know they're vulnerable to psychic attacks and hey, there's a psychic villain just there. Plus they have him tied up and could stuff him in a military helicopter and fly him to some secret brain-washing facility where he'd never be seen again until he was loyal to The Light.

• Okay; what is wrong with Dr. Fate? Possessing a teenage boy who just saved the world and him? I like the guy but...what's his logic here?
  • Did you actually watch the episode? It was very clearly explained why Nabu possessed Kid Flash.
  • Yes; of course I did. I think you misunderstood me. I mean at the end when he was planning to possess him permanently until Kent Nelson convinced Fate otherwise.
  • Nabu needed a new host. Wally was available. Morality didn't really seem to figure in it at all unless you count Nabu's need to fulfil his role as a Lord of Order. However as you mention, Nelson agrees with you that it was wrong and calls him out on it, convincing him to relent.
  • Blue and Orange Morality, plain and simple. Nabu only cares about his fight with Chaos. Mortals are just pawns for him to use. Arguably the only reason he agreed to releasing Wally was that Wally was so against the idea of magic that he was arguably the worst person to possess if Nabu wanted to use his full powers.
    • It's because Nelson had refusd to put the helmet on for several decades by that point; Nabu considered that criminal negligence, since at point there might have been a numer of crises' Dr Fate should have dealt with, or a major threat like Mordru or some such could have popped up randomly and wrecked shit while Kent Nelson was busy worrying about his private life. He doesn't regard humans as "pawns"; he just doesn't see why they should value their independance more than the fate of the world/ universe, and if Kent Nelson is going to shirk his responsibilities then he'll have to take a more direct approach, regardless of the host or if he has to force them, because Nelson forced him. He very much cares about humans- thats why he does that job, but he thinks they should take his role more seriously.

• OK; so just what the hell was that ball thing in "Bereft"? I've been digging through wikis and such for information about it and it's clear it came from Apokolips but I can't find any info on it.
  • Could be an original concept by Weisman or one of the others behind the show. Or something so old and obscure that information about is buried deep has become forgotten. Wwooooooo-oooo-oooo!
    • Granted, it doesn't bear any resemblance to...any of them but it could be this world's version of the Super-Cycle. Young Justice had one in the comics so it'd make sense.
      • This Troper has seen it speculated that it's the Earth-16 version of a Mother Box...
  • Is it actually a thing? I thought it was just a way to stress-test the new transport system.
    • • • It's a New Genisphere... also the Supercycle... and Superboy's pet...

• As regards the day at the beach scene: Why exactly were they having a day at the beach there? Are they not supposed to be a covert operation? Hidden in Plain Sight is one thing...one thing that involves some actual hiding. When you go prancing along the beach with a green skinned redhead in a brightly colored swimsuit and blond and blue/gray-eyed black guy with some pretty rockin' and very prominent tattoos, you're no longer hiding. Did they commute? Kid Flash's entrance seems to indicate it was a planned thing and his direct transit to the base loaded down with beach gear seems to indicate the beach day was local. Or was this simply an excuse to put the green girl in a swimsuit and show how much more fun they were having than Kid Flash?
  • I just assumed Bruce bought the beach to hide the base better.
    • I'd just like to point out how many little issues can be solved by saying "Bruce bought X." I had assumed it was a private beach as well.
    • It seems neater.
  • I could be wrong but to me, it looked like the beach they were at sat literally right at the base of Mt. Justice which might help to explain its privacy.

• How come Red Arrow didn't destroy the fog machine earlier in the Artemis episode?
  • Because he never asked what it was or if she finished and was kinda busy trying to get her to safety with the entire castle bearing down on him.
    • Couldn't he just shoot an arrow at the machine in a few seconds and then go about recusing the doctor?
      • The doctor tells him that they need to bring it with them. She doesn't tell him why. For all Roy knew, destroying it might have just made things worse.

• In "Denial" how does Aqualad know exactly where the keyhole is when they first open the tower?
  • I got the impression a keyhole (And by extension, a door) appears on the tower wherever someone just holds the key out. Magic/Advanced science is fun like that.

• What was this in Megan's memory? It looks exactly like a White Martian but is it something else?
  • Well...in the comics, M'gann is a White Martian in disguise to atone for her race so it's probably a memory of hers.
  • That's what I guessed and it appears the same here but maybe it's something else?
  • If it's something else and important, I imagine it will be revealed. Until then, I think it's pretty safe to say it's a White Martian.
  • It could be a G-nome.
  • No horns = not a G-nome.
    • Apparently someone let it slide that White Martians look similar to the clover field monster (see here ^{[dead link]} now compair it to the above image. I belive we've found a White Martian everyone!

• In 'Bereft', when M'gann first attempts to jog her memory, the two scenes she remembers are herself baking cookies for the team and the voice of Aqualad telling her to go do some infiltrating while Superboy tells her to be careful. Since she never saw Aqualad in those memories, she doesn't remember that he's a member of the team.....But she heard his voice in that brief memory so why doesn't she think that there must simply be a sixth member she doesn't know?
  • She may have assumed it was someone not on the team that helped advise them (someone like Batman) or she may have barely noticed the voice.

• Okay; so supposedly superheroes...or at least the "Silver Age"...are a "recent" thing in the universe of this series. But then, Greg Weisman said Superman's been active for 10 years and Batman 9. Even barring according to in the comics canon (as a whole), Tim Drake became Robin at this point, Wally's the Flash and Dick's Nightwing; how the hell can the Silver Age superheroes count as a "recent event" at this point in the universe of this series?
  • This is Earth 16 Dude.
    • I'm sorry but that doesn't work. Saying it's "Earth 16" doesn't change the fact that by 9-10 years, things aren't considering recent anymore; ergo despite what Weisman said, the Silver Age heroes shouldn't really be considered a "very recent phenomenon" anymore in this universe.
    • If Superman/Batman have been active 9-10 years then it stands to reason the other superheroes started later. So your probably looking at closer to 5-6 years for your average hero. (And in the case of Batman people probably don't have a real "Start date" for him since he generally does the whole myth or not a myth thing at least at the start.) So the only one that the public is probably aware the first appearance of would be Superman, making superheroes a rarity for at least 4 years or so.
      • • • Saying it's Earth 16 makes perfect sense; nothing says that anything that happened on Earth 0 (current DC Earth) has to happen on Earth 16. Also 10 years is not a long time.
      • I think Weisman was reffering to the League which has only been known to the public for only four years if anything else.
    • It could have worked...calling something recent depends on what one is comparing it to...but the Justice Society scuppers any explanation that relies upon there not being any superheroes at all before twenty or so years ago (other DC universes tend to have at least customed heroes and often superpowered heroes active during World War II and 70 years is enough to call 9/10 years 'recent' in comparison).
  • 10 years is not that long. You realize that when you're old enough to notice there are people you've know for 10 years or that you haven't seen in 10 years.
    • Exactly
  • Batman's has been active nine years but Robin has only been around for four. While five years may be a bit longer than usual for Bruce to patrol Gotham solo, taken out of context of the larger DC multiverse, it doesn't strike me as that odd. I think they made Dick so young here so they could really show him growing into a leadership role which stands a chance of making a nice subtle story arc. With his age-down comes the age-down of other characters like Wally.
    • Also remember that Young Justice is working with a *much* more rigid timeline than most superhero universes. While comics will often claim that 30+ years of stories have happened in the span of "about ten years." The show seems to be working with a more realistic idea of how much action and change usually happens in a year.
      • I agree. Nolan made the time lapse between Batman Begins, and The Dark Knight only a year, and look at all he accomplished. Multiply that by nine years, and I'm shocked Gotham isn't a utopia by now. A decade is pretty long. Look at it this way... do you remember 2002 very well? I don't, not really. I think you mostly just have to step back and really ask yourself, or tell yourself, whichever which, the span of a decade... and it's longer than you think. Maybe it's the connotation with a pretty low number, but when applied to something like a year, I think that isn't as good an excuse. But it all boils down to your own subjective definition of what is long... and how old you are of course.

• So M'gann gets a lot of her tendencies from a TV show character who looks like her. Plausible enough. But since she morphs her skin color (the only thing differentiating her from Megan in the Show Within a Show) to go to school in "Targets", wouldn't her classmates notice her similarities in looks, personality and name to the titular Hello Megan?
  • First of all we don't know if the Show Within a Show was shot in black and white (and if it was if there were any color pictures released)so M'gan might not look terribly similar Hello Megan. All we've seen of Hello Megan is a girl saying Hello Megan! so M'gann's personality could be very different from Hello Megan's. Also "Megan" is a fairly common name.
  • From what I've heard, Hello Megan! is supposed to be a show from the 70's. I doubt too many school kids would have watched an old 70's show.
  • Also if anyone noticed the similarities, they'd probably just assume she was a huge fan of the show. When people get really, really into a show, sometimes they try to be just like their favorite character. They probably just figure she's doing that.
  • Everything's explained in Image. Though M'gann does look exactly like the titular character, Hello Megan was an old show that aired before any of them were born, only ran for one season, and was given a very limited VHS release.

• Why wasn't Superboy angry at Mr. Carr in Targets?
  • Why would he be? If you mean because of the events from the tie in comic then not only does Superboy have no reason to be angry at Mr. Carr, but most likely he didn't recognize him.
• Is it me or is Megan's human skin tone orange? It seems like an unnatural color in-series but I think I saw one girl with the same tone in a classroom scene.
  • It's weird but since she's a teenager, people probably just assume she used spray tan or something.
  • In fact, that may be a deliberate effect of her mimicking a young Hollywood star. Or it might even be the crummy quality of the tapes she was watching.

• In "Targets" when Superboy falls out of the bleachers and head-first onto cement, how come no one seems to worry about whether or not he's okay? Megan knows he's invulnerable so it's understandable that she wouldn't worry but the other cheerleaders didn't.
  • The fact that he's not screaming in pain might of been a hint. Also they probably weren't looking at him so they might have assumed it was a smaller fall than it was.
  • Not everyone screams out in pain when they fall and either way most people at least ask if they're alright. And when he hits the ground, he makes a grunt that could be interpreted as pain to someone who didn't know him. Also they were looking right at him when he fell, and he falls about ten feet. Maybe they're just really apathetic?
  • It could just be that ten-foot falls don't mean that much in the Young Justice universe.
  • The above troper actually makes sense. In 'Bereft', Superboy punches Wally into a rocky cliff, and KF more or less shrugs it off. In the pilot, the entire above-ground Cadmus facility crumbles on top of our heroes and not a single bone seems to be broken. And it's not just Young Justice either; just watch the fight between Batman and Jason Todd in Under the Red Hood and count how many times Jason's face should have crumbled. People in any DCU are probably just used to everyone being able to take a certain amount of damage and be fine.
    • Actually in rewatching the pilot, I notice that there's a slight possibility that Robin and Kid Flash both broke one of their hands. After the whole collapsing building thing, they high-five and then both wince in pain. That might indicate that the hands they used were broken to some degree. Of course they could just have been badly bruised but that seems less than likely considering the high pain tolerance both boys show in later episodes. Your Mileage May Vary on exactly what happened there.
  • Toon Physics.
  • I don't know; the Kid Flash being punched thing could have been caused by the required secondary powers of super speed while the Cadmus facility could have been explained as Robin's high training along with everyone else's durability.
  • Let's see then. Robin isn't the type of team member that takes fatal and lethal blows too much, if at all. In fact, him and Artemis are practically the least to have this happen to them. With good reason. Wally has been shown to have durability, probably because of his meta-human status of secondary powers. We don't know to what extent, but we can surmise it's to a lesser degree than let's say, Aqualad, and of course, Superboy. Those three are the pegged likely candidates to be enemy punching bags. Also, when the Cadmus building did fall down, Superboy and Aqualad both covered Kid Flash and Robin from the debris. It could be said the cheerleaders might have been too shocked to really react to the more experienced M'gann, and Conner turned out to be alright rather quickly anyway.

• Why is everyone assuming that the name of the show we saw in "Downtime" was called "Hello, Megan"? Sure; it's M'gann's catchphrase and it's a bit suspicious but if you're watching with the subtitles on, it actually says "Hello. Neigh..." It looks like the word is 'neighbor'...not 'Megan.'
  • Arguably a joke unless we're supposed to assume that in another universe she's Tim "the tool man" Taylor's neighbor, Wilson. We never saw his true face.
  • While it's true that we don't yet know for sure what the name of the sitcom she got her catchphrase from is, closed captioning means diddly-squat as evidence either way; it's just one person's interpretation of what was said for the benefit of the hearing-impaired, not based on the original script or anything. We'll know for sure once "Downtime" comes to DVD (as the subtitles on those are official) but for now, the fact that Greg Weisman called the "Hello, Megan!" shirt he was wearing to SDCC "in fact a spoiler" makes me think that it's a sample of in-show merchandise which lends credence to the notion that that is indeed the name of the sitcom in question.

• Why was Batman so pissed at Aqualad for beating Clayface? It seems like an Informed Flaw.
  • He was angry at Aqualad for not leading well during that fight; the team was losing badly until Bats bailed them out.

• Why does everyone call Megan by her real name instead of her Earth name? She told them to call her "Megan".
  • "M'gann" sounds cooler.
  • Aqualad actually has an excuse that makes sense: he's the sidekick of a king (Ever notice how he never calls his mentor "Aquaman" or "sir" and always calls him "my king" which is Aquaman's rank in Atlantis) and therefore puts high priority on formality and decorum. Calling M'gann "Megan" would likely feel too informal to sit right with him.

• Why did Artemis not pick Dr. Fate's Helmet and grab her arrow? Relying on her oh-so-perfect archery skills when she has one single chance and if she screws it up everyone dies instead of the veteran superpowered flying magical being is kinda stupid. She doesn't even think about it!
  • She didn't actually see what the helmet could do, so she probably thought it was just a regular helmet.
    • She knew what it could do; thats probably a reason to not put it on, since from Wally she'd know that it might never come off again.
  • Artemis was also freaking out at the time. Using a weapon she's more familiar with would help her calm down enough to do what had to be done.

• What is Artemis wearing for her school uniform? The top doesn't seem to be the same as the other girls; it looks like the male uniform. Does the school have variations?
  • It looks like students have the option of wearing a blazer or a sweatervest. In the background you can see a guy wearing a vest like the ones Bette and Barbara are wearing and a girl wearing a blazer like Artemis and Dick. The girl is only seen from behind as far as I can tell so she may be wearing both a jacket and the vest but it doesn't strike me as likely.

• What did happen to Amanda Waller in "Terrors"? The last we see of her, she's fine after having stood up to Icicle, Sr. and Mr. Freeze. Suddenly at the end of the episode, Hugo Strange is warden (and officially so since he has his own nameplate).
  • Pretty sure she was fired for almost letting the breakout happen.

• Okay, "Terrors". It is established early on that each collar is custom designed to prohibit the use of its wearer's abilities. "No strength, no ice", says Ms. Waller. Later Mr. Freeze allows himself to be taken to Waller. Once in front of her, he...freezes the guard. With his collar on. What?
  • The collar was off.
    • No; that's not it; Waller shocks him with the collar right afterward but he fights through the pain and rips it off. The impression I got was that the collars had only a certain threshold of metahuman powers they could inhibit i.e. they could bring down Superboy's strength to that of a normal human but not necessarily Superman's. Freeze was essential to the breakout because he just barely exceeds that threshold unlike the other "ice-villains" (probably because of his origin) and so could muster up the short burst of adrenaline necessary to remove the collar and take over the warden's office.
      • Collars affect only metapowers (biological; maybe of magical orgins too). Mr Freeze doesn't have metahuman superpowers (aside from dying in non-cold environment). He uses technology to create ice; he just built small freeze-gun from parts that Hugo Strange smuggle inside.

• So if Artemis and Cheshire are sisters in this show, does that mean that Jade's last name is Crock instead of Nguyen?
  • No; the credits for "Homefront" clearly give her name as "Jade Nguyen." Presumably she was born with the surname Crock but changed it upon leaving the family to distance herself from her father.
  • They could be half-sisters with different dads maybe?
    • That would explain why Jade looks full Vietnamese while Artemis is obviously half. And why Cheshire and Sportsmaster get along so poorly.
  • Or possibly, Jade has her mother's surname while Artemis has her father's. It's an uncommon practice but it does happen. (Though I actually think it's the first explanation of her changing her name.)
    • Unlikely; the credits from "Homefront" also give her name as Paula Brooks which would indicate that that was her maiden name. Again it's probably more likely that Jade just picked very common Vietnamese surname "Nguyen" to distance herself from her Caucasian father.
  • According to Ask Greg, Paula's maiden name is Nguyen. So the "Brooks" was a mistake. Although, are you sure about it saying Brooks? 'Cause the Young Justice Wiki article doesn't mention that, and neither do the credits for the episode on Greg Weisman's site. Could you have misread it?
    • I did misread it. Her maiden name is indeed "Paula Nguyen."

• Does Wally dislike Captain Marvel for some reason?
  • Maybe a little but probably for no particular reason. He's childish, immature and in charge of them which is enough for any teenager to resent. He's new to the group and the team is despite its faults fairly tight-knit. They also had to save him on the first mission he accompanied them on; all and all, it's just a bunch of little things that will probably wear off as the team warms up to him.
  • I think the team doesn't realize that Captain Marvel is a ten-year-old kid in the body of an adult with godlike powers so his immaturity really throws them off.
  • As of Humanity, it seems like Wally likes Captain Marvel because he does stuff for him but doesn't really respect him.
  • Don't forget; Wally in this universe seems to have some sort of trust issues; see how he really hates it when Artemis replaces Roy for instance and now here is Captain Marvel "replacing" RT...
    • I'd peg that more to his not liking change than trust issues. He has his friends, and then they get replaced by some schmuck... anyone would be a little annoyed. (or really annoyed when that new person is a hot chick...)

• I...can't see how Red Tornado came to care for the team. This is terrible of me; I know but he's only spoken in 4 out of 15 aired episodes. And these conversations were short and to the point in all cases. I thought the story we got with him and Morrow and the Reds was great; don't get me wrong but I wish there'd been more time to set up individual relationships between him and the team members. This basically goes for all the Leaguers who aren't Batman though. It's getting kind of frustrating to have half the League in a scene and the only ones who speak are Batman and somebody voiced by Nolan North. Same goes for Canary actually. There's been a ten episode gap between her speaking roles and it's making me wonder why they have so many characters if they can't afford all of their actors. Hopefully the tie-in comic will start correcting some of this like it has been with Captain Atom.
  • Why wouldn't Red Tornado deliberately leave to protect them? He's a hero and he knows they're no match for the other Reds. The same logic applies to him caring for them. He wants to be human and it only makes sense to care for the next generation.

• Why would Red Inferno seem to melt so easily in the lava? Wouldn't being a fire-based robot mean having at least a little heat resistance?
  • Magma and fire are two very different things. You get burned by fire. Magma is liquified rock, extremely hot and completely solid (in the sense that it isn't gas anyway).
  • Magma can get much hotter than fire.
  • The fact that the entire fight takes next to MAGMA and the thing that bothers you most is the Robot melting in said magma amuses me to no end. That being said there is no real science at all in that episode. So the robot melts as the plot demands

• Why didn't Robin have EMP devices in Episode 15? I mean he didn't use them earlier since he said he was fresh out but now that they actually planned to go after the Reds, wouldn't it be prudent to have had some in the first place? I doubt Robin wouldn't be smart enough to carry some on him from now on after the whole HQ fiasco.
  • Because they didn't work nearly as well as he had hoped and only took out the Reds for a short time and not nearly long enough to be a viable weapon in he field.
  • I assumed that he was joking when he said he was out of EMP devices; no way one with a good amount of power that could knock out a frickin' robot would be able to fit into his belt.

• In the first night ops mission Superboy overhears Bane speak in Spanish and suddenly smiles; what the hell is he smiling for and pay attention to the smile; it's not a happy one; it's one of those sly smiles.
  • He's smiling because he has overheard the plan that Bane is concocting with his subordinate; the Team knew he was planning to betray them so they kept on their guard and took him down pretty quickly when he did. Unfortunately for Bane, he hadn't anticipated a polylingual Kryptonian.

• Okay; "Failsafe" bugs me. All Just a Dream? Really? Sure at the end of the episode they made a clever explanation; I'll give them that. But it comes out of freaking nowhere and it was never hinted that they were inside a dream; the bullcrap over them knowing that it was a dream before Megan had her freak out doesn't explain the fact that they kept their calm (y'know; the thing they're trained to do in that kind of situation). I'd just like it to make some sense.
  • "Comes out of freaking nowhere"? Really? Because I feel they dropped quite a few subtle and not-so-subtle hints throughout. Even ignoring the bloody obvious one: that the deaths of Robin's father, Kid Flash's uncle, Aqualad's king and mentor, Miss Martian's uncle and Superboy's aloof "father" alongside the entire rest of the Justice League elicits almost no reaction from the Team...there are quite a few others.
  • For example, you may notice a low "gong" sound when Miss Martian subconsciously takes over the dream and then again when J'onn enters it; the "death" of the Bio-Ship results in Miss Martian confusedly saying "That didn't feel like..." before being interrupted by more aliens; the lack of characterization given to the aliens in stark contrast to previous villains; J'onn having "realizations" every time a Team member dies and again since it can't possibly be emphasized enough, the fact that they killed off Superman and Batman within two minutes of the episode. Really; it wasn't a question of "Was it All Just a Dream?" but rather how and I think they selected a rather brilliant and satisfying justification for it which should lead to some great character stuff down the road.
  • Also there were no time and date stamps until they woke up in the cave.
  • Not to mention How after J'onn appears, M'gann starts making various absurd reasonings about how J'onn could be alive and that no one else was actually killed just transported akin to a bad fanfic writer trying to write themselves out of a hole which are immediately taken to be fact, hinting at how she is controlling the situation
  • And another one. there are only 48 stars on the American flag after M'gann takes over.
  • Yet another: Wally's arm is out of the cast. Next episode? It's back.

• If Secret was indeed a ghost and also intangible, how was she able to remove Zatanna's gag?
  • While I know very little about the comics' version of Secret, ghosts often have at least some ability to affect the physical world.
  • Maybe it's one of her abilities in Earth-16- to make herself tangible whenever necessary.

• In "Secrets", we clearly hear Zatanna say the spell under her gag. Then why didn't it work; I thought the rule was that as long as she can talk backwards she's a spellcaster?
  • Probably because she wasn't able to enunciate the syllables properly. In most magical settings, how you say a spell is vitally important to enacting that spell properly (i.e. "It's Levi-OOO-sar, not Levio-SAR.").

• Another one from "Secrets"; Harm mentions that only those pure of heart can wield the sword. He's heart is not obviously pure good so what kind of purity did he aim for that required no emotional attachments?
  • Pure evil obviously enough. Without Greta, there was no love or compassion or anything like that in his heart, making it pure.
    • I considered this possibility but I'm not so sure this is it; I mean sure, he killed his little sister in cold blood, probably making him a Complete Monster but... he seemed so nonchalant compared to other Ax Crazy villains. Plus the things he did: if you're pure evil, then why play around with Artemis and Zatanna? Why didn't he just kill them and be done with that instead of chasing them around and keeping them as hostages which led to his eventual demise?
      • If anything, just killing them would be less evil. He wanted to screw with his victims.
      • He said something about testing their responses so he's know how to kill their mentors.
    • We have a trope for that.

• Another from "Secrets", why exactly was Artemis so angry over learning that Conner and Megan was dating. I remember her mentioning that she found him attractive when she was first introduced but since then, show has gone out of it's way to imply that Artemis has a crush on Wally...not Conner. So...?
  • I think it was a How-could-Megan-not-tell-me!? kind of thing. Cause really she didn't seem nearly as infatuated with Conner like Wally is with Megan, so as far as Conner is concerned, I think Artemis never went past the Well-would-you-look-at-that-stud phase. As for her feelings for Wally, the show has indeed gone to great lengths to imply that they might even end up together, but right now Artemis is kind of in denial of these feelings... perhaps only focusing on what she 'feels' for Conner. And now she suddenly discovers that her 'sister on Earth' didn't tell her she was dating Superboy, so she must've felt betrayed, aside from now being forced to deal with emotions she doesn't want to deal with because of this new couple. Well... that's my take on it anyway.
• So in Misplaced, what happened to objects when the 2 worlds recombined? All cars crashed in the kid world, but supposedly some of them didn't in the adult world. Which world decides where objects are?
  • There was probably some logic to it- most likely, if there was a difference between the two versions, either the one that was intact was dominant, or the one that was most damaged, or something to that general effect. Of course, this is a spell of Klarion's we're talking about- he may well have set it up so it would be completely random.
  • Klarion started the spell, it stands to reason that his world is the dominant one.
    • Seeing as Dr. Fate's helmet wound up where it was in the kid world, this seems to be correct.
      • Klarion said Dr. Fate's helmet, and there for Nabu's power, was divided between the two worlds but it was always a vessel for Nabu. Since Nabu was summoned in the kid world when the two world's combined that helmet would be considered the "true" vessel by virtue of being active regardless of which world was considered the "original".
  • Expect for the fact that the piece of Starro was taken in the ADULT world and was still with Riddler and Sportsmaster after the crisis.
    • Oh snap, you're right. I guess "Klarion did it" is the best explanation there is.
    • Alternately, Starro may be on ice, but even that piece of it qualifies as a living thing, and it's ancient. Klarion's spell may well have interpreted it as an adult, and therefore there wouldn't have been a Starro in the kids' world.
      • Hold on, why would Starro have been identified as an adult, but Klarion, an eternal Lord of Chaos, have been identified as a child?
      • He's a Lord of Chaos; he's above making sense ;).
      • Word of God specifically describes Klarion as ageless. It's not an applicable attribute to him. He's simultaneously older than the Earth itself and a total newborn, so it was pretty much up to his own whim which world he decided to stick around in. He chose the child one.
    • But in that case, wouldn't the Starro chunk just appear where the case used to be, leaving the villains with an empty container?
    • Why would it have? I'm pretty sure living things stayed where they were when the reintegrating happened.
      • Whoops, got it backwards. The container (which never moved in the kid world) would end up back in the lab, and the Starro chunk would be with the villains (but flopping onto the ground).
      • The container remained with the Starro chunk for, presumably, the same reason why people's clothes remained with them when the worlds recombined. If it's actually attached to a living thing, the spell seems to "read" it as a part of that living thing.
      • Greg Weisman says: "It means that whatever was ACTED upon takes precedent over what was not acted upon. So the Helmet of Fate stayed in Roanoke. The piece of the creature stayed with Riddler. And Amber's plane crashed." [Response recorded April 16, 2012.]
• In "Coldhearted," why didn't anyone tell Wally that the donor heart was meant for Queen Perdita? I definitely agree with the moral logic that she's just as important as any other kid, but even if the League somehow didn't know that Count Vertigo had Diplomatic Impunity, it's not hard to figure out that she would have been a target to some villain. If nothing else, knowing the consequences of the girl's death might provide some extra motivation.
  • Secret Test of Character?
• So if Queen Bee's powers are based on seduction (works on "most men and some women" suggests that the target has to be attracted to her), how did it work on an 8 year old boy?
  • We don't know how it works specifically. It could be psychic and the person just needs to potentially find her attractive in order to get a foothold, or she could be able to control people who aren't attracted to her with much greater difficulty, or she could have just hit Gar with a tranquilizer and was lying about him being in her control at all (since the point of that was to manipulate M'gann, not make Gar himself actually do anything). Or there could be other factors I didn't think of. Until/unless we get a detailed rundown of Queen Bee's powers, we just can't say.
  • Alternatively she may have used her normal abilities and... well, lets just say she outdid Slade on the creepy factor. The way she was splayed out on the bed next to Gar certainly didn't help "Shudder".
    • ...nice...
  • Odds are she uses pheromones to affect anyone who could potentially find her attractive.
  • Given her name the pheromones are the best fit. Not to mention the one requiring the least amount of Brain Bleach!
• Always bugged me that in Welcome to Happy Harbor, Miss Martian demonstrates her shape shifting abilities and explicitly states that she can only handle female forms, yet the very same episode's conclusion involves her imitating the male form of Red Tornado. After 20 episodes from that point the "Female Only" shape shifting thing has not come up as plot relevant, so why bother introducing the concept at all?
  • There's probably a difference between shape-shifting into an organic male and shapeshifting into a robot with a masculine body structure.
  • Word of God says that a. shapeshifting into males is harder, not impossible, and b. Red Tornado is more like a Ken doll than a biological male anyway.
  • It might also be M'gaan exaggerating her 'human' femininity as a way to downplay any hint of her decidedly non-feminine White Martian form. Because if she can impersonate anyone of either gender with ease, it might beg the question of how much of her Miss Martian form is a fabrication.
• Why was Intergang and/or Parasite so hell bent on creating a blackhole above Geneva? Particularly Parasite since he appears to have no escape plan once the blackhole starts to grow.
  • It was part of their cunning scheme:

Step One: Destroy Geneva with a blackhole.
Step Two: ???
Step Three: Profit!

• • Considering Intergang's supplier, possibly to generate a Boom Tube.
    • OP. So is this a case of blackhole = wormhole misconception?
  • I was confused for a similar reason. Was Parasite trying to build his own black hole generator or trying to activate the one in Geneva? Because if its the second, it makes even less sense. He can't hold the world hostage from (what i am assuming to be) a largely unprotected lab, so unless he just wanted to kill everyone, his plan didn't seem to make sense. Knowing Mr. Wisemen, i'm inclined to believe Inter-Gang has/had a larger plan in the works that may have included the use of a black hole, but i can't imagine what that would be or how Parasites actions would factor into his plans.
    • Parasite built his own black hole generator, the particle accelerator in Geneva was the final pieces of the puzzle. As for holding the world hostage, he can destroy Geneva, and then threaten to destroy another more easily secureable location if he doesn't get paid,
• Why didn't Superboy tell anyone about the patches?
  • Because he doesn't want anyone asking about where he got them- you know, from Lex Luthor.
• Ok, this is going to be really spoilered, but I just saw Usual Suspects, and as interesting as it is, I still have one main beef with the episode. Why? Why did The Light decide to call in their debts so soon? And not just for Superboy who might have gotten too impatient to wait for more Shields, but for Artemis and M'gann as well. The Light way overplayed their hand with that move, so why did they do it? The Team had already beaten Riddler, Mammoth and Shimmer, gotten the package to the watchtower for their mole to then use. So why play their hand now and try to get 3/8 of the team to join them right there? I mean, did they seriously not think that by taking these many people that the rest of the team might not get suspicious and follow them? Did they not consider it could be a reverse trap to get back at them? Did they seriously decide to risk their second bruiser and their lives just to get 3 more allies? It just seems kinda silly for people who are both Manipulative Bastard types to not realize that they were overstepping on this one.
  • Simple: when you have one team of heavy-hitters under control, you don't want to leave the B-team unmonitored. Grabbing the muscle of the team (and the archer) neutralizes a lot of their potential.
• The kissing at the end of "Auld Acquaintance". Wally has spent the bulk of his time with Artemis being annoyed with her. Robin has demonstrated he has a crush on Zatanna, while Zatanna has returned his flirting a little, but it's a long way from flirting to kissing. Granted, Rocket's peck on Aqualad's cheek is reasonable for one friend to give another, though Rocket is new to the team.
  • It's New Years. They celebrated. More seriously, Wally and Artemis dropped that attitude after it was clear to both that Superboy and M'Gann were dating, Zatanna and Robin isn't that much of a jump, and Rocket outright eyed Aqualad from the moment she joined the team.
    • Wally and Artemis have spent a total of two episodes out of twenty-six actually expressing respect for each other. Respect is not the same as friendship (though it is fairly close) and respect is definitely not the same as romance (and having a boy and a girl constantly snipe at one another is not an indicator of secret/repressed mutual attraction).
    • wait what about Wally's extreme reaction to her death? Her worrying more about Wally than anyone else knowing her secret?
    • Comforting someone for losing their parent, and accepting said comfort, is not the road to a healthy romance. I know this is something that Robin and Zatanna can bond over (to an extent; Robin and Zatanna are suffering from different situations), and that Robin had been supportive of (and attracted to) Zatanna even before she lost her father, but they've hardly achieved the level of intimacy needed for kisses on the lips (New Year's Eve tradition or no).
    • Rocket's peck on the cheek is the only kiss that doesn't seem inappropriate. (Well, aside from Conner and M'Gann, but they're already a couple.) Seriously, since when do friends give eachother kisses on the lips, even for New Year's customs?
    • Pack mentality. As odd as it is, each pair had either one or both people interested in the other. I'm sure standing next to a person you're interested in while everyone else makes out licky style in front of you on news years day gets incredibly awkward, especially when you're all teenagers.
    • Also adrenaline. They literally just finished defeating their own brainwashed mentors and winning the most comprehensive victory in their team's history. They're filling giddy, energized, and considerably less risk averse than usual.
    • But seriously. IT'S NEW YEARS. Some people kiss random strangers in the name of the tradition.
      • Also, one kiss isn't the culmination of a romance. It can be the point at which it starts.
  • I'm just bugged no one lampshaded that it was lucky the team had a 50/50 boy/girl ratio.
• At this point I can't really say if I actually imagined the whole thing but, I was pretty certain Word of God had said that someone would die during the first season, yet the finale aired just yesterday and, well, what the hell.
  • Kent Nelson died.
    • Several people, named and otherwise, died onscreen.
  • Yeah, everyone assumed someone would die to mean someone on the team but Greg never said that.
• Where the hell is Artemis? There is no sign of her in any of the Invasion preview stuff. I tell you if she is off the team to be replaced by the fifty zillionth version of Babs as Batgirl I'm going to rage quit.
  • Wait a week, then you'll have an answer. I doubt she'll get cut.
• Why did Vandal Savage send Batman down to mount justice to explain his plan to the team in detail? I mean sure he threw in that "We foiled his plan already" bit but couldn't he have not given the team all the backstory they would need to wreck his shit? I mean why not just beam gas canisters into the cave to knock them unconscious? Other than it would end the show with the bad guy winning.
  • He hardly explained the plan in detail. He told the truth in about the vaguest way possible, which sounds plausible but does not betray the means or method. Red Arrow had escaped, and it was important that they make sure to taint Red Arrow's reputation before he could turn the team against them. As for knocking the team out with gas, one of them is a barrier warrior, and two are aliens. That wouldn't have worked. Red Tornado tried to convert them, but they didn't expect him to overcome the mind control.
    • Then why not just send in League heavy-hitters immediately? With no counter for the starro-chips, no idea what's happening, and no anticipation of a fight, the Team would have been hardpressed to survive an attack, especially if Klarion prioritizes the most dangerous targets when he directs the raid.
    • And if that fight spills outside? Suddenly the heroes look crazy for attacking their students. They have a masquerade to maintain. Violence was a last resort.
  • He was trying to convert the entire team with the least amount of effort. He had Batman go down there, give a convincing story that would explain what had happened if Red Arrow had tried confronting them, and left Red Tornado to infect the team. When he realized Red Tornado wasn't doing it, he sent down Black Canary. Only when it became apparent that the gig was up did they send down three heavy hitters to take care of them through force rather than trickery.

• Forgive me, but... how did every single Justice League member get infected so easily? Yes the Starro Tech rewrites minds, but the implication is that Red Arrow was the one that implanted the Starro tech in the justice league. So Red managed to sneak up on members that are better trained, more experienced, some of whom have superior senses in just about every way. Now yes, the team ended up doing the same thing to cure the justice league, but they've been training as a stealth team and where doing things in pairs, and when it came to a straight up fight against the most powerful members, it took desperate tactics... I'd just like some sense.
  • You have to remember that Roy is a part of the Justice League now. He could just casually walk up to all the members and they wouldn't find anything suspicious with that. Then when they aren't expecting it, he could use the Starro tech on them.
    • I am remembering that part. It still doesn't work. There is a telepath, two of the members are Green Lanterns who's Power Rings monitor them at all time. One posses the wisdom of Solomon. Red Arrow would have to go room to room in the Watch Tower to insert the tech.
    • Telepaths aren't scanning people constantly, power rings do no such thing, and wisdom doesn't make you omniscient. What Roy did to Batman is the only thing he'd have to do to everyone else. No one is going to react all crazy to a simple pat on the neck among allies. The reason it was so much harder for the team is because the League was being controlled and was on edge. The team couldn't just walk up to them.
    • This actually hung me up a bit too, until i realized that he only really needed to walk up to one of them. then the orders could be issued for the infectee to infect others. it would've been really interesting if we saw Red Arrow walk up to the flash, pat him on the back, and then .0005 seconds later the entire justice league was infected. We didn't see that because it probably didn't happen, but i still imagine something along those lines went down. We just saw Red Arrow infect Batman for brevity's sake.

• Okay, so what happened to Artemis during the timeskip? The rest of the original team (even Miss Martian, Aqualad, and a now Nightwing Dick Grayson) are still there, but Artemis isn't.
  • Where were Aqualad and Kid Flash?
    • In the comics Wally quite being a superhero until he was done with college. Since there was a five year time skip it's also possible Barry died and he is now Flash III. Artemis could be a number of things. Maybe she stopped being a hero while she's attending college or stopped being a hero outright. She could have gone to "the side of evil" or is still Green Arrow's partner. We don't have much to go on about Kal though.
      • Something sad that could have happened to Wally, he may have become paralyzed from the waste down. Which isn't to farfetched since this happened in an alternate timeline comic.
  • You know there's no way this won't eventually be revealed, of course. Aqualad at least has been seen in a trailer, wearing Black Manta armor.
  • I asume, that there will be a huge Flash Back at some point, which will reveal what happened to the old team.
    • Apparently Artemis and Wally are living together and are going to college, and have quit the superhero job. Aqualad now serves his father, Black Manta, and goes by the name Black Manta II (creative right?)

• What I want to know is how did Supey not age at all. Seriously when you look at Mal, Bumblebee, Nightwing and Zatanna and then look at him you have to wonder if something prolonged his aging or something. Did he get put into some sort of stasis between season one and two? Megan not aging is understandable since they live longer and mentally age slower than humans so it's natural she wouldn't change her appearance but just why hasn't Supey aged.
  • This was in the original YJ comics, being a clone meant that he couldn't age and he was happy (on the outside) and he managed to age after the "World without Grownups" event.
  • In "Earthlings", Superboy expressly confirms that he doesn't physically age.

• Why would it take the League founders five years to figure out what happened during those sixteen hours they went missing while under mind control?
  • It would kind of depend on what exactly happened. Let's say the Leaguers went and blew up a planet, and left a big glowing letter saying that they did it. In which case, the Green Lanterns could find out what ahppened easily, and the whole situation would be rather ridiculous. Now, let's say that they blew up a planet, but left very miniscule evidence of who was responsible. The galactic community is up in arms over it, and spend five years tracking down leads until they finally put the pieces together. My point is, we don't know precisely what the League did while under Vandal's influence, so there could be many possible explanations that we don't know of yet.

• So is this universe skipping Jason Todd as well? Dick did tell Tim not to die, which shocked him a little... but there's really no evidence that it's more then him just being scolded. Also. Sudden time skip, why exactly?
  • I'd guess the Time Skip is a device to squeeze in new team members and Character Development off screen. Jason Todd might or might not exist in this universe. Maybe he was Robin only for a very short period of time. Since we don't know when Dick became Nightwing nor for how long Tim's been Robin we can't tell for sure.
  • The new designations go up to B22 (Blue Beetle). With nine original team members and eight new members, that's five unaccounted for. The odds that one of the five people who joined the team in the in-between years was Jason Todd are pretty good. I'd also lay odds on Aquagirl and Tempest.
    • Aha. Aquagirl confirmed.
      • Jossed. Aquagirl was killed on a mission. The new members are Bumble Bee, Blue Beetle, Beast Boy, Bat Girl, Mal Duncan, Robin II, Wonder Girl, Impulse, and Lagoon Boy

• Here's something that down right confuses me. Why wouldn't the space cop think to check his space sector? Maybe ask the Green Lantern Corps if they new of any incidents involving heroes from his world? What, did the rest of the heroes brush John Stewart off or something? This is a big deal, because, again, the space cop didn't bother to check space.
  • You're assuming Rann is a) in sector 2814 (when it's actually in 2682 according to DC Comics Database) and b) that whatever the League did there was reported to the universe as a whole. Space is very big. They couldn't conceivably check everywhere.
    • It was suggested in that Rann was outside of Guardian space in this universe. It's possible they're still building or worlds exist in other areas like in the Green Lantern cartoon. John Stewart seemed to know nothing about Rann as he didn't speak up, and Strange stated that in that area the League are hated, not everywhere in space.
    • It's also not really logical for the League to assume they were in space. If you look at the members of the Light, they're mostly Earth-bound -- Klarion, being a concept and not a person, is the only exception. Plus, Vandal Savage's stated goal was to jumpstart human evolution. That's a decidedly earthy goal.
    • But it's outright stated that they didn't even consider it. Again. Space Cop. Sense. NONE THIS MAKES.
      • But they pretty well know that League members who were unaccounted for during the 16 hours weren't on Earth. Had they been on Earth, they would've been able to account for their activities just like they did all the other League members. And to make it even more obvious, they returned to the Watchtower via Boom Tube, an explicitly interplanetary form of transportation.
    • His vocation has little to do with motive. What apparent logic is there behind sending them into space for a group whose goals are Earthly in nature?
      • A group whose members are almost entirely unknown to the Justice League (They know Klarion and Vandal Savage, and they can reasonably assume Lex and Queen Bee, but they can't rule out somebody like Kanjar Ro or Sinestro). They have no idea how big the Light is, but they've seen their reach and know it's really big. And they should know from Superboy's adventure with the Forever People that it does, indeed, extend to space.
    • The League had five years to investigate things. There may not be any aliens on the Light, but there's nothing precluding space as a possibility and there's certainly no reason for the League to not think of it.
    • Suppose they did think of it. Where would they check? "Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space." Rann isn't even in John's sector of space, and his sector encompasses 1/3600 of the known universe. That's a lot of space. Seriously, the next time "space cop" comes to mind, remember how big space is.
      • Yes, space is big. Which is why instead of trying to search all of space, you just ask the Guardians of the Universe. Something that should've occurred to John immediately.
    • You also have to consider that there are a bunch of Space Police in the DCAU there is no excuse for not calling up HQ and asking if the Green Lanterns or their buddies happened to show up on any wanted posters lately. Heck the GL version of internal affairs would logically be keeping tabs on that kind of stuff anyway and showing up for a round or two of What the Hell, Hero? when it does occur.
    • Which, again, assumes that Rann reported this incident to the rest of the universe. If they never did, the local GL would never investigate and it would never be reported to Oa.
    • There's another reason. Rann's government is apparently very xenophobic and as a result condemns any contact with aliens.
      • Two of the very few named Rannians are GLs.
    • This is not about the League not finding anything in Space, either, it's the fact that no one thought to even try and see if anything was going on outside of earth.
    • But why would they think to? The Light is a decidedly Earth-based organization. As has been said over and over, you can't just up and decide to "check space". Where would they begin? Without a place to start, why bother looking at all? There's no reason to.
    • When you can't find something in one location, don't you go check another place? They checked Earth, they found nothing, so they should check outside of Earth. As pointed out earlier, space is really, really big, making not checking space like looking for your contacts by staring at the same exact spot on the floor for hours. As for "how," well checking with the Guardians (who two of their members work for) or Thanagar (where, again, two of their members are from) would be two very good places to start. Not to mention they're limited by places they can get to and back from in under 16 hours.
    • That analogy fails horribly in so many ways. It's more like checking your entire contact list, then deciding to call every number in the phone book. The sheer scope of it is unfathomable. Your how also fails to consider several factors. The Guardians only deal with indiscretions reported to them. If John had committed a crime in his or another sector, they'd have called him. Contacting Thanagar would be singularly pointless as well. You've eliminated a single planet. As for distance, they came back by Boom Tube. That makes the 16 hour window encompass the known universe.
    • Your comparison fails to understand the unfathomable scope of space. Compared to that, your contact list isn't comparable to the size of the phone book, not even a single number on your contact list is that big. It's like dialing one digit of the first person in your contact list, and then giving up because there's no possible way you could call everyone in the phone book. You asked where to start, the Guardians are as good a place to start as ever. If anyone could track a Green Lantern ring, the Guardians would know how. And there's a way to look beyond the obvious range without "calling every number in the phone book." It's called 'detective work,' and the League happens to have someone in there who's pretty good at it. So, again, just because space is unfathomably big is no excuse for just giving up without even considering it.
    • Just because they may be able to track rings doesn't mean they record all movement all the time. If Green Lantern's little incident never got out, they'd never know. Detective work isn't a solve-all method, either. They already used that to determine the gap. They never figured out the gap because they have nothing to go on. Seriously, what hints exactly did they have to go on? The six popped out of a Boom Tube. They could have gone anywhere on or off the planet. To find out where they went they'd have to find out where they weren't, and there's an impossibly large amount of area to eliminate to make that deduction.
      • You've made a very, very good argument for why they probably wouldn't have been able to find the answer. You've made a very, very poor argument for why they wouldn't even have looked for them. There are perfectly logical places to start looking in space, considering that one of the missing members was part of a group that makes it their duty to protect the entirety of it, and it makes no sense to give up before you even try to use them. Again, that's like dialing one digit on your phone and giving up when no one answers the call. Yes, space is really, really big. But that's no excuse for giving up without even trying. Especially when you're dealing with superheroes, who live to defy the odds. Also, as you pointed out above, the Light is largely Earthbound, meaning the chances of them picking a planetary region that the Justice League had not heard of before is pretty darn remote.
        • There's a difference between making a poor argument and not accepting the reasoning given.
    • The entire group flew beneath the radar for more than three years. Having them work somewhere remote is not beyond comprehension.
    • Again. This is not about what they might of found or what they might not have. This is about the fact that in a group at least 1/4th of them are from other planets or work in space regularly. They did not even think to check outside Earths atmosphere. The comparisons regarding the Phone Books don't work, because it's more like going to a store, not finding the product your looking for, and never considering to look somewhere else. I wouldn't have such a big problem with this if it had been given a mention, especially seeing as Intergang, one of the Lights pawns, had been using technology from ANOTHER FUCKING PLANET.
      • I like this store analogy. But it sounds more like they have been looking in all the local stores. Wal-mart? Checked it. Target? Checked it. K-Mart? Checked it? And everyone is asking why they didn't look for that book in a train station two towns over because their friend is part of the state police. Sure, it can work, but it doesn't make as much sense as checking all the local bookstores first. Everyone's assuming that in five years, they've turned over every stone on Earth, much less starting with their off planet contacts. Oh, and they don't have off time to just go looking. Finding out where this book is is secondary to Saving Lives.
      • More like after you check all of the local stores, you don't even think of checking Amazon.com. After all, if it's not there, you'll never find it, but that's no reason not to check.
      • Except this Amazon.com has no search feature, forcing you to go page by page.
      • Wrong. In this metaphor, Amazon.com is the Green Lantern Corps, making the search engine the guy most continuities know as Salaak. Space is the internet itself. When you need to find out about a crime in space, you should talk to the massive army that has made it a point to police as much of it as possible. Just because it's not guaranteed to work doesn't mean you shouldn't make some effort. Which, again, is the crux of the argument. The Light used the Justice League for some nefarious, obviously criminal purpose, and the Justice League did not do everything within its power to try and find it out. And the very planet Earth is paying for it.
  • I was more surprised that Batman didn't seem to have considered the possibility.
  • It's actually a little worse than that. Those six members caused an INTERGALATIC CONFLICT. It's so big that Superboy is specifically told not to wear the 'S' shirt when he goes to that planet. Forget never having specifically searched off world (which I assume they did, they just only hit the usual haunts like Thanagar and Tamaria) but there was no warrant or anything else simply broadcast out? The Rannian authority didn't hire Lobo or inform the Green Lanterns or anything?
    • I assume the Rannian authority is far too xenophobic to ask for the help of foreigners.
  • After a few years passed with nothing following from the missing sixteen hours, they likely started to think that whatever the plan had been it hadn't worked. It became a bit of a puzzle, but not an urgent investigation. They had no real reason to even think that they'd be sent into space anyway.
  • Was it ever stated that they never looked into space at all? I would think the usage of boom tube as opposed to zeta beam would suggest that they weren't on Earth. Then again, if they know boom tubes were involved, then the logical thing to do would be to try and contact the Forever People. New Genesis and Apokolips would be the first two potential locations on my list (though I guess they can't just go ask Darkseid "hey, did you see these guys here?"). Then I'd contact the Guardians and check on planets Earth has relations with, such as Mars and Thanagar. After that, well, I'll admit, Rann wouldn't be the next target on my list.
    • It was explicitly stated that space was a possibility that they hadn't even considered.
• I am not familiar with the comics. So when the league was considering new members, and they suggested a 3rd green lantern, why did the other 2 green lanterns refuse so adamantly?
  • Guy Gardner's a huge Jerkass.
  • I'll expand on this. Guy doesn't work well with others, is easily angered and very eager for a fight no matter what the choice was and was a back up to the back up Green Lantern in the comics... So there's an explanation.
  • If you want proof, watch Batman the Brave And The Bold.
• How exactly was Superboy expected to take down Superman or replace him in case of emergency? He doesn't naturally have the same powers. For a while I thought it was training him as a "human" would make him a better Superman but it wouldn't. He wouldn't be aware of how to best utilize his other powers and flying fundamentally changes how a fight works. Sweeping me off my feet loses a lot of it's effectiveness if hovering is an option I have open to me. Same goes for most submission holds if getting my feet over my head is easy and safe and not potentialy neck breaking. So training him to think like the Hulk and then giving him a slapper that upgrades him to Supes would have all of the hilarous effects of taking the Hulk to the moon to fight Superman.
  • Conner wasn't their first attempt at a Superman clone. And we don't know the full details of their plans. Perhaps they just wanted to closest thing to Superman that they could control. Match wasn't controllable but Conner was a step in the right direction. He's not as powerful but if the other sidekicks never found him he at least would've been under the Light's control.
  • In the mental simulations that Conner was run through at Cadmus of taking down Superman, he could fly and everything (see the comic book). It suggests that they didn't know about his limitations because they hadn't let him out yet. That, or they planned on using the shields.
    • Using the shields seems likely. After all they did come from Lex Luthor, a card-carrying member of The Light.
• I get that the everyone-thinks-Blue Beetle-is-talking-to-himself-when-he's-really-talking-to-the-suit thing is meant as comic-relief, but how difficult would it be to tell everyone "my suit talks to me sometimes and I talk back to it"? It's not like everyone would think he's crazy, because A- it's the (well, a) DC universe- crazy stuff happens all the time, B- they already accept that he's got an alien power-suit bonded to his spine, its not like the fact that the thing talks to him is any more incredible and finally C- they have multiple telepaths (Miss Martian or J'onn) who can confirm "no, he's not nuts, the suit does in fact talk to him".
  • They know he's not nuts but it's still kind of weird. For one, most people would expect him to talk to it with his mind rather than out loud where you only hear half the conversation.3
  • And now he's explained it, and we can hear the Scarab talk. problem solved.
    • As he pointed out, he hadn't shared that he can talk to the scarab. May very well have been "I don't want them to think I'm crazy and say I can't be a hero."
  • He might not have wanted to reveal the true nature of the Scarab since it would mean admitting that there's an amoral artificial intelligence bonded to him. The others might think he's a security risk. Which he kind of is, given the true nature of the Scarab as an alien weapon of infiltration and destruction which even Jaime doesn't seem to know (He and Captain Atom think it's Ted Kord's last invention).
  • Which is pretty odd if you think about it, why would an AI created by a hero be that amoral ?
    • Well, while he's probably mistaken about the origin of the scarab, since all signs point to it being of the same alien origin as it is in the comics, but even if he isn't, A.I. Is a Crapshoot.
  • The way he talks to Superboy in "Salvage" makes me think he's very new and hasn't had the chance to explain to the others
• So did anyone not see that early bird cameo of Static Shock in the Justice Hall?
  • His name isn't Static Shock, just Static. What does that have to do with anything?
  • Are you talking about Black Lightning in the Watchtower or was there an actual shot of Static in the Hall of Justice that I missed?
  • There was a guy who looked like him in civilian form in the museum as a tourist. Probably a meaningless cameo, like how half the girls at Robin's school were Batgirl at one time or another in the comics.
• So Cadmus clones don't age. How did the Roy clone age convincingly for three years then? He also looks visibly older after the Time Skip, though that could simply be him getting out of shape (relatively speaking) and not getting enough sleep. Was the non-aging thing something Cadmus intentionally added to Superboy?
  • It probably has something to do with the fact that they where also cloning Kryptonian DNA. Which they couldn't actually do properly. Keep in mind, Superboy was the only the second test subject.
    • Makes sense. Cloning Kryptonians perfectly doesn't seem to be possible in most continuities. Might also be a side-effect of Superboy having a mix of human and Kryptonian DNA.
  • Also, Conner wasn't finished yet when he was busted out. So if they'd waited some more, he might be capable of aging.
    • At that point, the cloning process had already been completed, they were just programming him.
  • Superboy doesn't age. Normal, human clones do. Roy clone has matter-of-factly aged from when he was cloned, as is plainly obvious from comparison pics shown in the finale. It is merely a quirk of Superboy's genetics which have halted his physical age.
    • It should be pointed out that in most continuities, Superman ages at a significantly slower rate with each year, if he's aging at all after a certain point. It is possible that Kryptonians change very minimally physically as they get older. In fact, Superboy specifically says that he is aging internally, he's just not changing physically.
• "Coldhearted" was overall an awesome episode, but this detail's bugged me ever since I first saw it: why was Queen Perdita being treated in a US hospital? You'd think the queen of a sovereign nation would have access to said nation's finest hospital, instead of having to travel overseas (at least it seems like Vlatava's a european country, let me know if I'm wrong).
  • It's not uncommon for rich citizens to travel to other countries if they have a better expert at a given medical procedure. If the world's best heart surgeon happened to be an American, the Vlatavan government and royal family would want Perdita to be treated by that person, not just the best one in Vlatava.
    • Except the surgeon (or at least I assume the guy who was waiting for KF was the (or one of the) surgeon(s)) sounded like a vlatavan too. And even if that was indeed the case, wouldn't it make more sense to have the surgeon come to Vlatava rather than the opposite? I can't imagine a 20+ hours long flight would improve her condition.
      • But the heart would have an even harder time traveling. You gotta go where the hearts are.
  • Perhaps she was visiting America when she took ill and they didn't want to risk her condition worsening by sending her back.
  • It happens all the time - she may well have access to Vlatava's finest hospital, but the finest hospital of a small sovereign nation isn't going to be as good as the finest hospital in America. America's combination of size and wealth means that it has the finest high-end medical care available (at least for those for whom money is no object).
• In the episode "Bloodlines" Roy and Chesire have finally been able to track down the original Roy in Tibet. This mission is obviously very dangerous and there is a high chance of one them will get hurt. So then, why in the world do the two of them think its a good idea to bring their own baby along? It's child endangerment to the extreme. There is no way that bringing a baby along on a mission like that is a good idea. Even ignoring the danger their baby is in, it simply isn't practical to bring a baby along on a stealth mission. The baby even ends up bringing more guards with its cries so why would either parent even think to bring their child along?
  • Roy objected, and says as much. Cheshire obviously disagreed, and frankly she's the one wearing the pants at the time.
  • Apparently the kid was having fun. She might be used to seeing Mommy and Daddy kick ass. Besides, shes going to at some point in time learn how to protect herself from enemies being that her mom is a world class assassin, and father is a hero. Best way is to learn first hand I guess. I don't know I'm not a parent.
  • Jade may still have trust issues after being raised by Sportsmaster, and therefore may not have been very keen on leaving her own daughter with anyone else - even if it was her sister like Roy suggested. Alternately, Jade simply knew about the fort's defenses and determined that it would be very easy even if they did bring Lian with them. After all, Roy wasn't in particularly good shape, one of Jade's hands were busy holding Lian, and they got held at spearpoint by by every guard in the area - and they still kicked everybody's asses, apparently with little effort. Ultimtely though, I think it's just Rule of Funny - a way for the writer to insert a bit of humor during Roy's parts of the episode.
• Why did Impulse feel the need to lie about why he came to the past? Wouldn't it have been much easier if he simply told the truth ("Hey, I'm from the future to keep Flash - my grandfather - from dying against an insanely powerful supervillain!"). As it is, his pretending to be a tourist and his chipper demeanor meant that no one took him seriously and thus ignored him when he did try to help. Also, instead of just returning to the past and stopping neutron, he let himself get caught in a pointless chase with Robin, BB and Nightwing, waste several minutes talking to his grandpa and other relatives, try to tell said grandpa to just ignore the supervillain destroying the entire city, and then finally nearly got Barry killed by tripping him while in Neutron's proximity. Just saying, his job would be a lot easier if he just spoke up instead of putting up a silly act that means nobody will take him seriously.
  • He didn't want to risk revealing too much info about the future. He wasted the time with the team because he knew he had time to spare
    • Why? What could've happened? Besides, he was apparently fine with revealing that Barry would have twins and at least one grandson, so he didn't show much regard for the timestream (and let's not even mention how much more extensive the effects on the timestream would be by him staying in the past than him coming clean about why he came back). And even if if that was the case, why couldn't he just say: "Hey Flash, I know this Neutron guy, and I have something that can stop him before he does any more damage, so why don't you leave this to me, eh?" That way, he's not revealing details about the future, but still preventing Flash's death with little effort.