Girl Genius/Headscratchers

New entries on the bottom, please.

• Whatever happened to the princess Zulenna storyline? Reviving someone against their will? Royalty pissed at a breaking of a cardinal rule? The storyline was quite frankly delicious, as well as her character being moderately interesting after proving to not be such a bit... very mean lady.
  • They haven't forgotten - this thing is planned out over decades. Patience is a tooth-grinding requirement.
  • During the current storyline, they are planning to kill Tarvek in order to cure him of a lethal disease, and then revive him. At one point, Gil explains the implications of resurrection for royalty, and how the Baron deals with it (Gil makes it clear that "breaking the cardinal rule" happens a lot more often than most royals are willing to admit). Presumably, this is part of setting up her reintroduction to the story.
  • Okay--feudally speaking, in the end this depends on who's going to recognize her, right? Funny thing, it looks like... Heterodyne heir, Wulfenbach heir, Storm King and the rest of high-up hatchlings from the castle. And princess Zeetha for a good company--because why not? Looks like Zulenna's situation is rather precarious, but once the current turmoil will be sorted out, her "fall from grace" is very, very far from a foregone conclusion. Provided she won't strike her flag voluntarily, of course.
    • Between this and Spüdna's report on Holfun-Borzoi takeover (their King is dead, and whoever is in charge probably got wasped), she may have a good chance, especially if she meets one of the vespiary teams.
  • Note that the scene where it was announced that she was definitely dead and would be revived was added later, when the collected volume was released (and retroactively added to the webcomic), because the page count for that book required one more page. Meaning that originally, we probably weren't going to discover her fate until later (possibly much much later) -- or, perhaps, it wasn't part of the original story at all, and was added as a sideplot later on.

• Is Wulfenbach a revenant currently? His behavior matches what would be expected if he successfully resisted the slaver wasp, but we've been given no reason to believe that such is even possible.
  • If he was a revenant, he wouldn't have let Gil send Captain Vole to retrieve Agatha, Vole being the one jager who'd kill the Heterodyne on sight. I don't think any amount of plotting and secrecy would be worth letting a powerful jager get into a situation where he could kill your boss.
    • If he is a revenant and knows it, the thing that he must want most of all is never to hear Agatha's voice. What he doesn't know is that there's a second copy of The Other roaming around. Tarvek knows that. I don't recall that Agatha knows. And nobody else does, so far as I can tell. Tarvek does not know that Klaus has been wasp'd.
  • My assumption has been that Wulfenbach is kinda a revenant- he's been afflicted by the sparky slaver wasp, and so has to obey anything Agatha/Lucrezia tells him. The thing is, she hasn't given him any orders yet. I expect him to stay away from her personally so he can't hear her voice while trying to destroy her- which will make the fact that there's a wasp inside him irrelevant.
  • When the wasp infected Klaus, he was apparently affected by it. But we know that the ordinary wasps don't affect Jagermonsters, and we know that Gilgamesh has at least some Jager secrets in him. Given Klaus's physical abilities, he also may have some Jager in him. In addition, he's been studying devices belonging to The Other, including slaver wasps. We also saw that, when the wasps got loose on Castle Wolfenbach, he gave orders to cover his own death or failure to emerge (scuttle the Castle). These provide at least three ways in which The Other's use of the wasp might fail.
    • The whole "slaver wasps don't affect Jaegers" thing is sketchy at best -- IIRC, when they first discovered the type of revenant that retained its mental faculties, it's briefly mentioned that the infectee was a construct, and thus supposed to be immune. So their immunity could have been a deliberate lie. And if The Other could develop a wasp that worked on sparks -- also immune -- then it isn't much of a stretch to assume that she could design it to work on Jaegers as well.
      • It's possible that the slaver wasps are geared to work on most common types of constructs - The Other would certainly have had the opportunity to work with Jaegers, so long as she could keep the Heterodyne Boys from noticing that individual Jaegers were disappearing. However, Klaus is definitely not one of the more common types of constructs - he seems to have Jaeger-ish aspects but he's also definitely not a Jaeger. The Other could have assumed or hoped that his similarity to the Heterodyne's constructs would make Klaus vulnerable, and been partially or wholly mistaken.
  • In the backstory, the Heterodyne brothers had a device that could extract a slaver wasp from a revenant. It's quite possible that Wulfenbach could have had the same device handy again, or that Dr. Sun could have it and have used it as a precaution.
    • If you're talking about The Dragon From Mars arc, Theo just made that up, and Zulenna indicates that being a revenant cannot be cured. Not that they know much about the Other's technology; many, perhaps most, didn't know that Sparks couldn't be infected by the slavers.
      • It's not something that can be handwaved - he's still a revenant :shudder: until we are explicitly shown otherwise. It's too important.
  • It's also important to note that he is the first Spark to ever be infected by this new slaver wasp. The details of how it works have yet to be fleshed out.
  • Klaus is most likely aware that he has been infected by a slaver wasp, as indicated by the Other covertly revealing herself to him just after something started forcing itself down his throat. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out it was a slaver wasp (even though he is) and his first reaction when the Other's attention seems distracted is attempting to cut her down, before swiftly ordering his men to kill Agatha and everyone with her. It is quite clear that the new generation of slaver wasps create revenants who fully retain their mental faculties in the absence of orders from the Other, so Klaus is still in control as long as he avoids a situation where he can be given such orders, and will be seeking Agatha's death via proxy (which is why he shanghaied Othar). There is also the aforementioned fact that a Spark infecting slaver wasp is completely new, so noone can be sure how it works. And given the planning and story structure of Girl Genius it is most likely setting up a plot point that will pay off at the time when it works best dramatically.
  • He is definitely infected. Look here. The Other tells him to shut up, and he does, mid sentence! However, he acts normally the rest of the time. Now, we know there are two kinds of infections - in one, revenants become shambling mindless monsters who cannot be cured by any known means, while in the other, they continue to be completely normal people except that they follow orders from anybody who has the command voice, like the Other and Agatha (mind you, Vrin's successful refusal to obey Agatha serves as evidence that it is possible, if hard, for revenants to resist the command voice). Klaus's infection appears to be of the latter kind, but since this is a whole new type of wasp, maybe it is a third type of infection which has some similarities with the second, but is different in other ways. So far, there is no way to know.
  • Also, Klaus is not only a Spark, but also a construct. There is no certain way of knowing if the slaver wasps affect constructs, and Klaus is certainly wily enough to let the Other think he is infected...
  • ...And Von Pinn could resist because she was the Muse of Protection, in other words, a high-functioning construct! (Granted, probably not a case of wasp, but still mind-control.)
  • As far as I can see, this was the first time a "spark control" wasp was actually field-tested. Klaus may well have managed to shake off its influence or find a cure for it. He does know a lot about The Other's style of work.
  • About the 'commanding' thing: If Klaus was infected, he could, if he wanted to fight Lucrezia @ other (that is if the storyline gives him a chance) he could wear earmuffs (In a world of inventors, earmuffs are bound to exist, and also they probably be pink and fluffy for irony, and, in Klaus' case, be custom-fitted with custom-mini-weapons designed to work against the other (and practically anyone else).
  • It's worth noting that, although Klaus shut up when ordered to, he then started talking without recieveing further orders. It's possible the wasp died before being able to perform permanent alterations.
  • Turns out that the non-mindless revenants aren't new, they're old. The zombies are a flawed anomaly.
• We now have the answer. Anekiva is in his room, and he is obeying her commands. Sleep!
  • Are you sure? He's imprinted to Agatha's voice, not Lunevka's - Anevka herself said, before Tarvek swapped out her head, that even her excellent copy of Agatha's voice wouldn't work on the revenants who already heard the original.
    • Anevka's copy perhaps wouldn't. But Lucrezia knows her wasps better and could know some secondary signatures allowing her authentication in a new body. She built the beacon engines, so it would make sense to also prepare some way to regain control of her servants.

• Where is Wooster? Zeetha's done her part by making sure Gil's okay, but where did Mr. British Super Spy go?
  • I'm not sure where Wooster is, but I'm quite certain where he isn't... which is anywhere near Gil.
    • I vote for this one. He'll pop up when needed.
  • Wasn't he sent to England to prepare a place for Agatha?
    • Most emphatically.
      • That wasn't 'sent to England', that was 'sent to get her to England'.
        • He took Master Payne's Circus to England to keep them safe from the Baron. I'm having trouble finding the page, but I know it exists.
  • Wooster was last seen hanging out with Von Mekkhan right before Agatha entered the Castle. Odds are, when we see Von Mekkhan again, we'll see Wooster.
    • Exactly. They are at a critical stage in the planning, where they are relying on Agatha to take control of the Castle and Mechanicsburg, at which point they can work out what needs to be done next. For the time being, they need to lie low and let Agatha handle things (though they will be unaware of the complications in the proceedings), and are probably gathering intelligence on the Baron's activities, and preparing for what will occur in the event that the Baron is still in Mechanicsburg when it falls under Agatha's control. When Agatha finally leaves the Castle, they will be waiting to provide her with information, and work out the next stage of the plan. We aren't seeing this, because the major focus of the narrative needs to be on what is going on inside of the Castle.
  • Well, we've got our answer now.
  • His current mission seems to involve being somewhat sympathetic to Agatha, getting Klaus's most axe-crazy retainers personally angry with him (Bangladesh and Dolokov) and avoiding Gil like the plague (which is probably not a bad plan of itself.)

• Just what is Tarvek's deal?
  • When the cards were down, he told Wulfenbach's troops to shoot Agatha-possessed-by-Lucrezia (getting himself shot for his troubles), so his ultimate loyalty is not with Lucrezia or the Other. My best guess is that he's just looking out for himself, trying to claim the throne of the Storm King. This put him sort-of on Agatha's side during the whole Sturmhalten arc, since he wanted to marry a Heterodyne to cement his position as the Storm King. Then the Geisterdamen got Agatha possessed behind his back, so Tarvek had to kiss up to Lucrezia to keep his head. He tried to play both Lucrezia and Agatha, but got in over his head, then got shot in the head.
    However, it's also suggested that Tarvek is (or was) allied with Strinbeck & Oublemach and the Knights of Jove, who see Agatha as an obstacle to be removed. We just need more info before we can definitively say what Tarvek is trying to do.
    • It's all politics. He wants to marry Agatha to consolidate his power. "Old legends still have power," and after several decades of war, the people must be longing for peace. When the geisterdamen chuck a wrench in his plans, he decides to play along with the Other, both to save his life and to seize this opportunity. Agatha-Other even tells Clank-Other that he's trying to learn all the Other's secrets and rescue the girl. He's not necessarily on Agatha's side, though. He might not be evil, he might even be a decent guy, but he's planning to use Agatha just to further his own ends.
      • The bit about legends makes sense. Remember the lengthy "Storm King" opera synopsis, where "Europa" declared that there would be peace when the Storm King married a Heterodyne daughter?
  • My theory: Gil and Tarvek were originally one character, and the Foglios split them up into two characters. So, Gil would have been the prince of Sturmhalten, and plotting against his father. It makes the motivations a little clearer. The Storm King part was a later addition after Tarvek was added to the plotline. Originally, Gil would have been evil, and wanted to marry Agatha to solidify his position after killing his father.
    • Yes and no. Originally, they were Klaus and Gilgamesh Ujebeck, and Klaus was a shriveled old man, and he and Gil were Quite Evil. Gil was going to be doing a sort of escalating Long-War-like Spark thing with Agatha... but they changed their minds.
  • I figure he was just playing as many sides as possible to increase his chance of coming out on top. Help the Other transfer her consciousness to Agatha and his sister. Help his sister undermine the Other's plans and come to power. Help Agatha's plan to beat the Other and escape. And if they'd arrived earlier and played a larger part in the lead-up, he'd doubtless have helped the Wulfenbach troops secure the city, maintain order, and neutralize the menace of the Other. I'm sure if Agatha performed slightly better or his sister wasn't so likely to doublecross him, he'd have sided with one of them in the end. But Lucrezia came out on top, so he made sure it looked like his cooperation with the other two was all just machiavellian scheming.
    • My memory isn't perfect, but if that was after Lucrezia got put into the Clank body, it could have been to avoid Agatha getting control of the body- one Other and no Heterodyne heir is better for the Other's plans than one Other and a Heterodyne heir wanting to stop her.
      • Seemed mostly like he has Chronic Backstabbing Disorder
    • I'm pretty sure that, at least at the beginning, he allied with whoever happened to be listening at the time.
  • Tarvek originally tried to convince his father NOT to grab Agatha. Note also that Clank-Lucrezia has a body that will obey Tarvek's orders and Clank-Lucrezia presumably does not know it. He can probably use this weapon just once; if Clank-Lucrezia doesn't find out and fix herself before it's used, she will afterwards. So I speculate that he didn't want all of this to happen, but had to go along when it did. He must realize that if Lucrezia actually gets her way, he'll be lucky for each day he avoids an enhanced slaver-wasp.
  • This page (aptly titled "Tarvek Shoots His Big Fat Mouth Off") indicates that his original plan was to become the Storm King, with Agatha at his side, fulfilling the prophecy and bringing peace to Europa. He truly believes the Baron is a violent upstart, and was stealing the Other's secrets to unseat him. However, he accidentally told the Other this, so they made a deal. What that deal is is the cause of all the confusion over his motives.
  • Much later on post-timeskip, during the wrap-up of the British Science Dome sequence, Tarvek finally explains why he sabotaged Agatha's hologram message that tried to warn people of the Other inside her head - to save Agatha's life, because he was already falling in love with her even that early. Tarvek believed that the instant Klaus had confirmation that Agatha was mentally possessed by the Other, he'd kill her on the spot because he'd see the possession as not curable and the probability of the Other eventually taking control again as too high to risk. When confronted with this even Gil concedes that yes, his father very well might have.
• Did we ever find out why Gil kept Agatha from reading that book in the beginning?
  • Because with a title like In the Seraglio of the Iron Sheik it's almost certainly smut, and he's not a little embarrassed.
    • The fact that Ardsley described it as a "personal favorite" of his master probably didn't help.

• How did Doctor Merlot know that Agatha is the Heterodyne heir if he's presumably been locked in the castle for a month or two?
  • When Klaus Wulfenbach finally decodes Dr. Beetle's notes, he learns that Beetle knew who Agatha was all along and was planning to use her. Presumably Beetle told his second in command, as Merlot knew about the Other's hive engine and thus probably knew what precautions Beetle was taking.
    • That's possible, but he's so petty and vindictive that I find it hard to believe Beetle would trust him with that kind of information. Not that Beetle was the wisest man in the world, but still...
      • Beetle was shocked when Merlot betrayed him to the Baron. The only reason Merlot turned on him was that Beetle let his minions work on the useless project while he devoted his time to the hive engine. Merlot was proud to finally be trusted with a Wulfenbach project, only to find out that the whole thing was a schoolboy's test. Wounded pride caused him to lash out. Perhaps he behaved more trustworthily earlier, before Beetle unintentionally made a mockery of him.
  • Are you kidding? Merlot couldn't have known -- he certainly would have betrayed Agatha to the Baron if he had. As for why he knows now, well, he's just spent at least a month locked up in Castle Heterodyne with Moloch Von Zinser who was aboard Castle Wulfenbach when Agatha was revealed and has probably been bitching about her for the entire time.
    • New prisoners bring news with them. He might have recognised her from the description.
  • Its recently been revealed that Beetle knew, and Merlot was with the group of cryptographers the Baron had decode Beetle's notes. When Merlot realized the implications of letting a Heterodyne out into the open by expelling her, he tried to track her down. When he was unable (because she was already aboard Castle Wulfenbach) he tried to destroy the evidence (and the cryptographers), which is what got him sent to Castle Heterodyne.
  • Now Merlot is trying to kill Agatha. Were he to suceed, he would doom himself to living and dying inside Castle Heterodyne. He will be released from his sentence, on the other hand, if Agatha succeeds. In light of this, the question should not be why Tarsus Beetle kept Agatha on (we know that) but why he kept Merlot on.
    • ? He was probably just a decent scientist as far as non-sparks go (he has a doctorate, after all), even if he would waste his time and ability if left alone to his own devices (seriously, cheese? From chalk?). Consider that he and the others were able to construct Wulfenbach's machine up to a reasonable point, given both the fact that they were normal humans and that the machine was never designed to work. That's probably all the reason Beetle would need to keep him around; he needs a competent person to whom to delegate less important task which didn't require his spark genius.
    • If you need a reason, look at the battlesuit he's using. Now, things like that aren't all that unusual in that universe, until you realize that all the weapons we've seen before are the work of a spark, which he is not. Any normal person that can still construct that good of a weapon is probably a pretty amazing scientist.
      • It did have a big old Heterodyne symbol on it, something I doubt Merlot would have added. He probably found the machine somewhere.
        • Or, since he is limited to building materials found inside the castle, he just used the crest when it was all he had to reinforce the front of the battle suit? Still, the battle suit DOES seem a little too advanced for a non-spark.
• When was Agatha's locket repaired? And who did the repairing?
  • Klaus repaired the locket while he had it, presumably taking it from Moloch Von Zinzer before shipping him off to Castle Heterodyne; it shows him looking at it while he's recovering from being rivet-shot in the leg by Punch/Adam while Agatha was escaping the airship.
    • Yes - and since he's got the sort of mind he does, and is familiar with the Heterodyne style, he was able to restore it quite efficiently.
  • You're assuming that it's the same locket. Klaus may have been carrying something prepared by the Heterodynes for another reason, perhaps having to do with Gil, perhaps having to do with himself. Remember the Trelawney, Spark of the Realm story having to do with King Arthur's crown: the person who put that crown on was posessed by the personality of Arthur stored in it.
    And there are still the mysteries surrounding Dr. Beetle's notes. For all we know, the locket that Other/Agatha found on Klaus was held by Dr. Beetle.
    • It's a fair assumption, as Agatha herself said it was the same locket. It should be the only one with pictures of her parents, so she should be able to recognize it.
      • That would require taking it off to open it. Agatha is wearing it close to her neck; she probably cannot open it. She has only seen it while wearing it; Other-Agatha saw it in the case that Klaus carried around. What reason would there be for Klaus to carry around Agatha's repaired locket, much less to make a heterodyne-sigil case for it?
        • He wasn't just "carrying it around". He went to Sturmhalten to find Agatha, so he brought the repaired locket with him. I have two theories: 1) Since he saw the pictures of her parents he thought it was just an heirloom and so was going to give it to Agatha as a gift to placate her, or 2) He knew what it was, and was hoping Agatha would see it as option 1 and would become easier to control when her sparkiness was suppressed. Either way, he has to dress it up with the heterodyne sigil box as a gift.
  • I'd assumed it was still broken, which is why it doesn't dull her mind anymore; it's just the sentimental value that keeps Lucrezia in check.
    • I'm pretty sure Agatha says somewhere that it was off for too long, and her mind grew too strong for it, but it was working. It seems pretty clear it wasn't just sentimental value, judging by Lucrezia's reaction whenever it's put on.
      • The second novel actually explains how the locket works. Whenever Agatha's mind starts functioning above a certain level, it sends out cancellation waves to suppress her brain waves (By heterodyning them). This is why whenever Agatha Clay got agitated or tried to focus on her projects, she would get massive headaches. By the time she got the locket back, her mind had progressed to the point where the locket can no longer cancel out her Spark completely, though it does function as a training weight for her brain. The reason Lucrezia can't control Agatha while she's wearing the locket is because the locket is strong enough to suppress the copy of Lucrezia's mind whenever she tries to act.

• Not exactly story important, but what were the Jaegers doing while the Heterodyne boys were running around? None of their stories end with "And then they sent in their unstoppable army of bio-engineered stormtroops," and I doubt the Jaegers would be as fond of them as they seem to be if they had just had them sitting on their duffs for a decade or two, so what were they doing during that time? Just serving as policemen/guards?
  • Well...You know what a hoot Mama Grika's is? We know that by this stage the Jäegers have been driven (quite literally) underground in Mechanicsburgh, so that suggests that they used to enjoy rather more of a run of the city. If this is how they act when they're being secret can you imagine what kind of a party they have when they're in favour with the city's rulers? Keeps them busy without fig-okay, I admit I'm not sure how the Heterodynes avoid people getting hurt with this approach, but you must admit it would account for the Jäegers' fond feelings towards them (besides the ones built in with the loyalty imperative, that is).
  • Also, it sounds very much like the Heterodyne boys were given to adventure for the sake of adventure, and sending in the unstoppable army of bio-engineered stormtroopers would have been cheating.
  • The Heterodynes were nobles who controlled a quite substantial chunk of Europa. Having Jaegers to police it and protect it from invasion is probably what allowed them to go off on their wild adventures for months at a time without the country falling to ruins.
  • The secret blueprints mention that the boys tried to use the Jaegers for defence only, and that most of them learned to knit while the boys ran the show.
    • Gods. Knitting in the GG universe. The Jaegers, I imagine, would be quite passable at it, but when a spark gets ahold of a pair of knitting needles you suddenly have multi-armed, air-filtering, woolen powered-armour monstrosities. Doc Oc in Argyle! Merino machine-guns!
      • My face is stuck in a manic grin now. I hope you're happy.
      • Well, the Cinderella mash-up features literal Quilting Bees...
    • This may be a Shout-Out to Gordon Dickson's Dorsai series.
    • Also, knowing those Jagers... they could knit steel cables.
  • Moping, worrying and/or getting bored. Dimo complained about the Heterodyne boys not allowing Jägers to tag along when he fished for assurance that he's needed from Agatha (again).

• Othar's ultimate goal is to kill all Sparks including himself, right? Unless he's got some sort of poison weakness, I honestly wonder how he's going to pull that last one off, considering he can survive things like being chucked out of airships without a single scratch on him.
  • Well, most of those times he's actually trying to survive. But yes, that does put a damper on his plans.
    • He's a spark! He'll invent a gigantic, steam-powered laser-shooting radioactive bio-destruction robotic device for the sole purpose of killing himself, It'll have a giant snake's head with acid-dripping fangs, octopus arms with drills and saws, and it will kill him by simple asphyxiation. :)
  • Assuming he keeps little Othar to himself, all he needs to do is take out everyone else and wait for old age to finish him off.
    • If you'll note in his Twitter (yes, it's canon, but remember a madman's telling the story), there's duplicates of himself who have killed duplicates of himself quite efficiently. Once even with a waffle iron.
  • I don't care how strong he is, unless he's replaced his skin with Kevlar or something there's no reason any person shouldn't, given sufficient willpower and an actual desire to do so, be able to slit his own throat or wrist and bleed out. And anyways, that's too far in the future to be the focus of his planning--he's likely to die of old age before he kills every other spark in the world, considering how many there are. And that'd be if "killing all sparks" was even possible, since it can pop up in individuals who as far as anyone knew had none in their family histories (so at best it's a recessive gene which is good at hiding; good luck weeding that entirely out of the population in one generation).
  • And I paraphrase: "It'll take more than that to kill Othar Tryvagassen, Gentleman Adventurer! [...] Er... Not much more..."

• Early on, why were Agatha and Gil so worried about being infected by slaver wasps when its later established that the wasps can't infect Sparks?
  • They probably just didn't know. Besides, they were still being attacked by the soldiers from the hive-engine, and once the swarm actually was generated, everyone else on Castle Wulfenbach who wasn't a Spark could have been infected. Plenty of reason to be worried, I believe.
  • And even if they did know consciously (which, especially in Agatha's case, I doubt), there's nothing like the activation of an engine dedicated to spreading The Virus in an area you can't escape to cause you to forget a few minor points.
    • There weren't many people around to witness whether Sparks were possessed or not, after The Other got through with them.
  • "As a member of the Order". And even if Gil knew and remembered, wasps "don't work on Sparks" doesn't necessarily mean the victim is completely unharmed by having to swallow a brain-controlling implant. Just not turned into revenant properly.
    • And, bearing in mind that we now know the zombie-types themselves were not turned properly, "don't work on Sparks" could just mean that they'll always go zombie. In which case, since they didn't know at the time that the stealth revenants existed, there's no way they could have known that Sparks were any kind of exception.

• Two points: "Her Undying Majesty" Albia of Britain. Albia's style (title) suggests a clank. We are also told by Gil that to go against Albia's will is "literally unthinkable." This suggests mind control and does not look good for Master Payne's Circus. Agatha may have a job to do there. We also have "Enigma", the part?-clank figure that appears to Agatha on page 4. Could THAT be Albia?
  Note that the second and third "time windows" seem to be on a timeline going backwards, as though they are tracking backwards for an event. Moloch is there in the first one, and it is noted that his friends are escaping Bang's devistation. But a geister also tells Agatha that she is needed elsewhere. If the reason is some kind of battle, could it be that someone (Albia? Lucrezia?) is trying to destroy or stop Agatha ... and creates a time causation loop that starts the whole business?
  • You're not thinking widely enough. She's a Spark, any 'undying' is possible. Also, Wooster doesn't seem all mind-controlled and robotic; neither does Trelawney Thorpe (admittedly, it was just a story, but still.) I'm more interested in what Klaus did to tick her off.
    • Also bare in mind the era we are talking about here. The opinions of the monarch where very important and well respected in our world at that era. I mean you can imagine that a spark could amplify that Royalty to a palpable level. That would also explain why Britain is literally closed to Klaus, absolutely everyone would distrust and report him.
  • Jossed now that Albia is revealed. Except the part about her supposed mind control. This may be her way to avoid making too many scorch marks centered on smoking boots, and ensuing general unhappiness. Or just a result of knowledge that he can read anyone like an open book at will, per Lords and Ladies.

• Is anyone else getting annoyed with the whole "Gil/Agatha" plotline?
  • What, you mean the main storyline? Be more specific, please.
    • What I mean is - does it seem like they're upping the emphasis on the whole romance angle just a little?
      • Did you miss the tag-line: "Adventure, Romance, Mad Science!"? Seriously, how can you complain when it's right there immediately following the upper navigation buttons? It's not like they didn't warn you! I'm more annoyed by Agatha's attitude toward Gil, in that she's not being romantic enough.
        • AUGH. 'Adventure' comes first. And Agatha's a little busy, right?
          • Mad Science comes last, yet it appears to happen more often than Romance. But I'm only slightly annoyed by the lack of romance, and was mainly intended as a counter-point to the dislike of romance. Your "AUGH" is a bit of an overreaction to my being slightly annoyed.
          • Why should she be more romantic? Gil is a nice guy, but face-to-face to Agatha he comes off as a bit of a jerk with all the misunderstandings they've had. She does have some pride.
            • She could get those misunderstandings cleared if she was more romantic and spent more time with him, giving him a chance to reciprocate and explain himself.
  • And yet something about Agatha pausing mid-rant to primp herself for Gil just... Yeah.
    • Completely embodies the Rule of Funny?

• What just bugs me about this series is how often engineering is referred to as "science." I realize this trope is hardly unique to this series (you can see it all the time in other works of fiction), but seriously, it gets to a man. Most of the time, sparks aren't doing experimental research to test theories and gain a deeper understanding of the world, which is science (there ARE exceptions, such as Klaus's attempts to find out what part of the brain is it that gives sparks their unnatural abilities; that is science). Most of the time, they are using knowledge they already have along with their intuition to figure out the best way to build things. That isn't science, that's engineering. Sparks seem to be mostly genius engineers rather than genius scientists, so what the hell is with the repeated cries of For Science! and emphasis thereof?
  • Rule of Cool. For Science! sounds way better than FOR ENGINEERING!
    • Similarly, Mad Engineers have been referred to as Mad Scientists for many decades (and for the record, there is at least one mad scientist who never intentionally does any mad engineering on-screen: The mad social scientist, who does slip up when he reveals his finding to Agatha, part of his available group of research subjects).
  • In addition to that, for most of our main characters the engineering is what's important (because they need it to survive). Most of the sparks are too insane to do any real science (let alone apply it rationally in the form of engineering), and the few characters that don't fall into those two categories (busy/insane) do have a bunch of science-y research going. (Klaus being the most prominent one, of course.) Also, like the above notes, "FOR ENGINEERING!" doesn't have the same ring to it.
  • It can be summed up pretty well by the difference between scientists and mad scientists: A scientist says "Look, I've invented a new gun! Let's test fire it several hundred times by having a robot shoot at a target!" A mad scientist says "Look, I've invented a new gun! Let's test it against that massive army charging towards us right at this very moment!" They understand proper experimental procedure, the Spark just allows them to skip quite a few steps without getting themselves killed. And on that note, keep in mind that young and inexperienced Sparks do often get themselves killed by doing too much, too fast.
    • But scientists don't "invent new guns;" that's what an engineer does, which is what bugged me to begin with. That said, I suppose I can live with the Rule of Cool explanation. I guess I am just annoyed with how all the mathematics/science/engineering in fiction gets lumped into the "science" mantle and handed to the Omnidisciplinary Scientist.
    • Ah, yes, apologies for the mix-up. Mad engineer does seem to be a more appropriate title. However, don't forget the mad social scientist, who seemed to want materials for a large scale experiment. The point I made above was simply that a normal social scientist would start simpler, while the mad one seems perfectly willing to jump from "Controlled hedge-maze with theoretically generic orphans" straight to "Wall up Mechanisburg and watch with glee." While I don't know what he hopes to get out of it, if he has the Spark, he's probably going to get it despite pesky things like logic and the fabric of the universe standing in the way.
  • This complaint seems to imply that engineers don't do science, which is wrong. True, engineering isn't the same thing as theoretical science, but theoretical science is just part of "science". Sometimes it's just engineering (making a better coffee machine, making ANOTHER death ray), and sometimes it's just theoretical science (trying to find out what makes a Spark, a Spark, though if he ever found out, some serious genetic engineering would follow), but often, it's both (figuring out how to upload, store, and download human consciousness, and then actually making a machine that does it, for example). Mad scientists don't submit papers to journals, they theorize and apply.
    • Engineering is applied science.
      • Much in the same way science is applied math, but one still does not call science math.
        • Science is not applied math. For one thing large parts of Earth science, biology and basic chemistry are qualitative in their descriptions rather than quantitative. Secondly, even in physics which is one of if not the most mathematically rigorous branch of science, the maths is a descriptive tool more than anything else.
  • However, if you remember Master Payne's Circus of Adventure, there's also mad chemists and mad bio-engineers, not to mention whatever it is that lets Payne do...whatever it is he DOES; the fact that we mostly see engineers, doesn't mean there's no room for other sciences. For Science! is usually said when they don't know exactly what will come up, remember the part of Race To The West Pole; I don't know what experiment Bill and Lucrezia are doing or even if THEY know the result but they certainly seem excited to find out.
    • Eh...that was probably a Double Entendre. Although they were just about to...experiment.
  • How often do they ever specifically shout "FOR SCIENCE!"? I can't remember it appearing in Agatha's actual adventures. It appears in "Race to the West Pole" - but that's a Heterodyne play. It appears in the radio plays - in which everything is turned up to about 14. I can't remember it actually happening in the story proper.
  • Besides, Science sounds better.
  • This isn't science, it's Science!, there's a difference.
  • Also, normally engineering implies knowing what one tries to make in first place. While the methodology of Sparks seems to be more "i have a general idea of what's needed, let's see what i'll make while doing it". If a Madboy tries to repair a car's transmission, he may end up with a new tank, including principially new deathray in every turret.
  • It's simple. This is a fantasy version of Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries. Back then even theoretical experimentalists spent of lot of time building and designing their own equipment, mostly because no-one else had built what they needed.
    • This, thank you. The distinction between theoretical and practical science is a very modern definition. Until very recently, the word "engineer" meant "the person who operates the machinery that the scientist built".
  • Keep in mind, they're obtaining energy densities and cognitive efforts that surpass modern science out of springs and gears. We never actually see how they do this; it's quite possible that the process of building a clank (or death ray, or what have you) involves countless smaller examples of theoretical science to invent the device's overarching principles and constituent parts, which are then applied through engineering. They just find the science part of it more exciting.This seems to be confirmed when Agatha resolves the Si Vales Valeo; she implements her new ideas untested, which absolutely shocks Gil, implying that the testing is vital to the process.
  • One of James P Hogan's books points out that science that works is engineering. Science that doesn't work is bunk. Objectively, that means science does not exist! Hear the sound of one hand clapping!
    • ...except that's not even slightly true. Science that doesn't work is bunk. Engineering is necessarily underlain by science that works, but science that works need not have any practical application, which also necessarily underlies engineering. Furthermore, engineering need not add to science, since sometimes old principles are put together in new ways, or designs refined to respond to changing economic or social priorities rather than any change in the underlying principles. Certainly the apparatus of, say, the Michelson-Morley experiment was engineering, but by that standard, next to everything is engineering. The discovery was not engineering, and indeed, the nonexistence of luminiferous ether would not be relevant to engineers for decades, and then much less relevant than many, many other principles.
  • Also, remember that in this universe, science is inextricably mixed with science, MUCH more than it is in real life. Everything from biology to chemistry in the Girl Genius universe is completely tied with engineering. You don't look a body and find out what's wrong, you build a machine to look at the body and find out what's wrong. You don't perform surgery, you build a machine to perform surgery. The universe there is totally different than ours, and engineering is indistinguishable from science there.

• Are ALL heroes as annoying as Othar?
  • Othar strike me as a Deconstruction of the usual heroes of Science Is Bad stories, particularly Doc Savage; being a Hunter of His Own Kind who quite understandably comes off as Ax Crazy and Wrong Genre Savvy to the main characters. If he was taken seriously at all, he'd be quite a chilling villain, but instead he's a Large Ham to make him more funny than dangerous.
  • Othar's existence involves being tough enough to survive every silly deathtrap in a hearing range of him, and insane enough to get into it to begin with... He seems to be unique.
  • Grantz is a bit of show-off, but not a Large Ham and all in all seems to be way more adequate (see the next page) so far.

• What's the deal with the Jäegers? From what I gather, they're humans who were given a potion or something? I can't really anything definite on the website that explains about them.
  • That's because all we know about them is that they're humans who've been given the Jaegerdraught, they have a built in fanatical loyalty to the Heterodynes (probably something in the draught), they have pointy teeth, and a unique culture/religion involving each having a personal Nice Hat. The draught/potion is made from the waters of the Dyne river, amongst other things. And that's all we know.
    • They could be chosen for loyality to begin with. It's not like guys bullying other European powers would need to grab random tourists when they want a new Super Soldier squad. Joining the elite troops and acquiring both Jagers' longevity and full compatibility with their regeneration stimulant? This may be Heterodynes' reward for the best.
      • It probably is a reward or at least a promotion. Remember that Carson Von Mekkan being insulted at the idea that the people of mechanicsburg would need to be compelled.

• Why didn't shutting down the castle immediately re-energize the Dyne as the energy now has nothing siphoning it off anymore?
  • The energy still has to build up again. Give it a month or a year or a generation, with no Castle pulling off it, and the Dyne might become a major power source again. But it's not going to happen immediately.

• When are they finally going to be done with the castle already? This portion of the storyline has dragged on for over two three years now, and it's starting to grate.
  • I have to totally agree. It used to be, I couldn't wait for the next update to the comic. Now, all it does is upset me when yet another complication pops up that is going to take months to resolve, if ever, leaving the reader with even more delays before Something Finally Happens!!
    • Horray. More dingbots. I am so engaged with the plot right now. I totally care about this irrelevant complication.
      • Wait, are you talking about the present day comics? They were in the castle for two real life years?
        • Agatha entered in December 2007.
  • Oh...Well, it looks like the castle arc is nearly done. =)
    • That castle happens to be her home! How could she just leave and never come back? We should've been expecting this for a long while.
    • Nobody's saying she should leave and never come back, just that it'll be kinda dull if she never leaves.
    • And a good editor could have trimmed a whole year out of the arc, removing a lot of the filler-ey bits. The plotting in the Castle Wulfenbach arc was much tighter.
    • The entire point of the Castle Wulfenbach arc(s) was her quest to escape. Learning family secrets was a (unwanted) bonus. Castle Heterodyne is Where She Came From, and filled with Heterodyne secrets, many of them Dark Secrets - she's not trying to escape from it, she's trying to figure it out. And given that the castle itself is schizophrenic, that's a large order. And she has assassins and suitors to deal with at the same time. Right now, the castle is giving up its secrets to the Heterodyne rather freely, and the suitors seem healthy, but. Zola. Just. Won't. DIE!
    • The impression I got is that they're tying up every single storyline related to the castle, so that Agatha won't have to come back later. Oh, it will be seen and referenced, but no main plots will take place there. I mean, think about it: Agatha went in to repair the castle (main arc). Zola obviously can't try to usurp her after the castle is repaired, so that has to happen now. All the prisoners (mostly Sanaa, Moloch, and Tiktoffen) need to be taken care of, and there's no way to avoid their stories if they're running around anyway. Agatha needed to know about the Dyne (since the power was ebbing and the castle wouldn't be repaired without it), and it makes sense to include the Otilia subplot for that part, since she's like ten yards away. The "Zola won't die" arc is basically a "look how FUCKING AWESOME Higgs is" arc. I think we're going to get some of the questions about him, too, answered soon.
  • Personally, I want the castle arc to be finished because I'm sick of people complaining about wanting the castle arc to be finished.

• Whenabouts does this actually take place? A lot of our familiar milestones are probably meaningless - most of Europe being ruled by a baron rules out familiar dynasties, sparks ruin eras in thought, the apparently atheistic invocations we see probably rule out Christ, but, for instance, how long has it been since the death of Caesar? Did this world even have Caesar? Charlemagne? Othar's Twitter mentions Voltaire, but he lived much later than the architecture and fashions seem to indicate. Hell, Phil and Kaja coming to our world would almost seems to imply it's been about 2,750 years since the founding of Rome...
  • If there is any parallel to our own timeline then we can start by noticing that the Arc de Triomphe (built in 1806) was standing a few years ago when Tarvek and Gil were in Paris.
  • Word of God states that the Storm King was based on the Sun King, another name for Louis XIV of France. That was 1638-1715. If those are literally the same people (except the Storm King is Louis with the Spark) then that means its sometime in the 1900s--its been mentioned a few times that the Storm King's reign ended about two hundred years ago. EDIT: Had the dates switched. Fixed it.
  • Taken further, Klaus Barry Heterodyne was born 1#72. Assuming the above is correct, that would be 1972. He died 407 days later--so about 1974, which we can assume is Agatha's birthyear, or thereabouts. She's eighteen, so its 1992. The Schizo-Tech is justified because Sparks are crazy.
    • Actually, Klaus died in the attack on the castle, which is repeatedly stated to have taken place nineteen years ago. So it would be 1993.
    • Alternatively, as the reign ended about 200 years ago, it would be more likely to be 1893... most people would call 280 years about 300, not 200. This would put the attack on the castle at about 1874, also allowing the voltaire reference to be only a century earlier, and not two. ~flatscam

• "If you'd live to see the end of day, from Mechanicsburg two leagues stay." A few strips later, Agatha has the castle chase the airships two English leagues; given the suggestion of time travel, this probably isn't a coincidence. But whose leagues, indeed? Mechanicsburg is in Transylvania, the English barely mentioned other than Wooster's arc. The German "meile" (often translated "league") is generally around one and a half English leagues. The Roman league was less than half an English league. Especially in a world with less British influence than our own, why did Transylvanians make a rule around the English league? (...no, I'm not going to ask why it rhymed. A couplet that simple could be made to rhyme in any language.)
  • Honestly, I think the rhyme was invented by the Heterodyne's enemies, so they we referring to their own leagues (whatever those were). Other countries picked it up after discovering that their leagues worked for it too. Besides, as the old airman pointed out "we just stayed away from the place." The exact distance really was not important.
  • If you REALLY want it to bug you, unless you REALLY REALLY stretch and try to force "tag" to rhyme with "bleib'" (command form of "bleiben", to stay) the rhyme ONLY WORKS IN ENGLISH, and they're almost certainly not supposed to be speaking it.
  • Normally an English sentence wouldn't be constructed that way. I don't speak German, but I'm guessing that they occasionally butcher their own language for the sake of rhymes as well. Like the OP said, its simple enough that it can rhyme in any language without losing its meaning.

• They're really overbleaching the underpants here. The characters have a modesty disproportionate to their place, period, and individual life circumstances. And while that may not be the most fantastical aspect of the characters and setting, there seems to be an adolescent overreliance on Naked People Are Funny for a comic title that strives to be more cerebral. Oo, undies and discretionary pantslessness, got it. Chuckle. Can we get past that, now?
  • ...what are you talking about? Zeetha's nudity (well, not quite, but whatever) was played for laughs twice. Gil got one in a perfectly logical situation (Mama Gkika's), and then he and Tarvek got a slightly less justified one in the castle. These all lasted about two panels each. Is that what you mean? Note that my first anime/manga were Mahou Sensei Negima and Witchblade, so I'm desensitized. I literally don't know what you mean.
  • The characters have a modesty disproportionate to their place, period, and individual life circumstances. Because in a fantasy setting with an alternate history and culture that is apparently set in the early 1900's going by the dates we've been given and the analysis noted above on this very page, they're going to have the same standards of modesty as Victorian Europe. Standards and culture are different, especially considering that this is a society built entirely around mad science.
    • Are you talking about the period that coined the term, "slum prudery?"
      • No, I'm talking about the fact that we're dealing with a completely alternate history, with an alternate culture, mores, and concepts of modesty. Why are you assuming that an ahistorical society would be adhering to historical concepts of modesty when they literally have hordes of mad scientists running around that have fundamentally altered the progression of the historical timeline and culture?
        • So "assuming" is what you call making educated guesses from the given sociological conditions. Make sure to dismiss the 'individual life circumstances' clause as well, because that's the only way you can accept educated doctors blushing while examining an injured woman. And that's further ignoring the conditions (we were informed) they were raised in. Or you could just face that the Foglios could stand to take it easy with the bleach; they're trying way too hard.
          • They're blushing because they're both attracted to that injured woman whose boob they're examining, not because OMG LADYPARTS ARE SCANDALOUS. Judging by his reputation in Paris, Gil has probably seen enough nipples to last him a lifetime.
  • Easy answer - they're marketing to a general teenage-or-later audience; they have to make it accessible (I've already seen a complaint about a spiral squiggle on a background Jaegerbabe painting - apparently the complaining reader planned to mutilate her dead-tree copy when she gets it. The art was later edited, sadly). And Kaja likes Victorian underwear.

• IIRC, when Agatha was asked whether Punch had told her Heterodyne stories, she replied "no, because he couldn't talk". I haven't researched this and don't have experience with it, so I could be wrong, but wouldn't the daughter of a mute learn sign language?
  • ...did they even have sign language in... whenever Girl Genius is set?
  • Regardless, she realized that she was being tested, and the point was that Punch couldn't talk. He could conceivably have told her stories using sign language, but Heliotrope was assuming that a fake wouldn't know he was mute. Actually, in hindsight, he probably did know sign language, since his muteness seems to be left out of the Heterodyne stories.
    • That's probably because he could talk at the time of the Stories. The muteness is presumably due to damage he sustained at some point and couldn't have repaired due to his creators' absence- a common issue for abandoned constructs. He can talk with effort now that Gil's repaired him.
    • Not to mention that the stories were really not all that faithful on the characterizations of Punch and Judy.
    • Maxim mentions that one of the reasons that people thought Punch was stupid was because he was big and couldn't talk. Apparently the Boys aren't just as skilled in biological repairs.

• How exactly did Zola escape from the castle's reach? The castle clearly has access to the library's section of the network, which was what previously sicced the Torchmen on Castle Wulfenbach. And on that note, is there any hope of nailing down an enemy instead of just spawning them like hydra heads? We've got, what, three or more copies of the Other running around now, and no sign of ever catching back up with the mechanical one seen in the first chapter. In the words of Black Mage of Eight Bit Theater:

"This whole goddamn adventure has been nothing but pointless build ups toward pay offs that never happen."

• • The torchmen were either busy with Castle Wulfenbach or they all crashed when they shut down the castle. It seems like they're the only anti-air capability the castle has, so I think that's really all there is to it. And the copying thing is one of the horrors of the Other: You could kill a thousand copies and have her just respawn in a new host in a couple decades, albeit with less knowledge than she'd like. Assuming Tarvek really is on their side, though, that will be a big step in the right direction.
  • The torchmen did get Zola. She survived, but apparently she's pretty mangled up.
    • Or at least pursued close enough that the point defences shooting at them hit her too. Unless these guys opened fire at range where they could mistake her for a gargoyle.

• Why are Gil and Tarvek completely or nearly useless in this arc? Gil destroyed the main incoming force of a rival military force with two blows. Tarvek has been manipulating the people within Castle Heterodyne, and coordinating a coup on the outside with masterful precision. Once Agatha comes along-to which I hold no fault to her for, mind you-they start getting severely gimped. Tarvek is made useless due to a disease, then Gil. Tarvek is thrown about like a fool by Violetta-which has been actually been at the brunt of my dislike pile as of recent events (To keep a long story short; THEY DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD about the poison, despite them being men of actual chivalry and honor)-and Gil was nearly eaten by a plant. Is anyone else but me getting annoyed at this yet?
  • No. I don't see how any of this makes them "useless" especially when, as you just said, they did everything they could when dealing with the poison. Yeah, Tarvek is getting thrown around by Violetta, but that's because Violetta has been established as being an extremely capable warrior - more so than Tarvek. Besides, they've already proven their competence in previous story arcs, and in this case, they're in a literal case of Worf Had the Flu. Plus, this is the arc where we see other characters display their competence; if nothing else, this arc strikes me as the one where we see Higgs demonstrate his badassery, and is to Higgs what the sequence with the war stompers was to Gil or the Sturmvoraus arc was to Tarvek.
  • We seem to have the answer to this one, at least with regard to Tarvek. Tarvek was pulling a Zola. The next strip suggests that Gil could be doing so as well.
    • Does this help fix things?
• Why did Othar try to kill Agatha? Yes, his ultimate mission is to kill all sparks, but in every other story, he seems willing to leave the more harmless ones alone for the time being, including Gil. And yet, having seen only good in her, he tries to kill her until she pretends to be on his side.
  • The decision to kill Agatha on the dirigible struck me as a spur-of-the-moment decision on his part. Keep in mind that Othar's nuts and had just gotten out of fighting Gil, so he's probably still running on adrenaline, so he's more likely to make an impulsive decision. When Agatha meets him later he seems to have mellowed out a bit, having just been to a traveling show and feeling better, and subsequently witnessing her going out of her way to protect the town and the traveling circus.

• Very minor one: Does jaegermonster mean "hunting monster" or "hunter of monsters?" I don't speak German.
  • Closer to "hunting monster" (technically, it means "hunter monster", IE, a monster that is a hunter, rather than a monster that hunts, but the meanings are close enough). "Hunter of monsters" would be a monsterjäger.
  • In the military Jäger usually means a type of light infantry.
    • True, but the term is derived from the German word Jäger, which means hunter. As the comic uses Translation Convention, with the actual lingua franca of Europa being German...
      • According to the novels, the lingua franca of the Wulfenbach Empire is Romanian. The Heterodynes may have been from a region that originally spoke German, though.
      • The term "Jäger" for light infantry dates back to the Thirty Years' War, when German hunters of various stripes (poachers foresters, game wardens, fur trappers...) were recruited into various armies to serve as scouts and skirmishers, due to their experience with rifled muskets and working in difficult terrain.

• If Da Boyz know Jenka... (It seems to me they do) Then how come they dont recognize her in Zumzum? The things they say to her after being cut down dont seem like something you say someone you actually take commands from ( I get the impression). Also, I think its her they are reffering to when they first appear. Implying that she could kill all three of them.
  • They were hiding the fact that they were working together. It was all an act to get them freed and out of town so they could report back that they'd found Agatha.

• A minor quibble, but how did one cup of coffee in Mechanicsburg accomplish Caffeine Bullet Time when massive loads of stimulants administered in Sturmhalten(presumably, one of the Moveit formulations) didn't?
  • It's coffee from Mechanicsburg.
  • Also, the stimulants were used to keep her going on no sleep. In Mechanicsburg, she was at a baseline level of health and energy rather than about to collapse at any moment without it.
  • But she had been known to drink tea, which is caffeinated, when not exhausted. Why didn't this happen much earlier. Of course, this would have meant - Agatha drinks tea->Agatha's mind overclocks from the caffeine->Agatha's locket forcibly throttles back her brain to suppress her Spark->Agatha gets killer headache. If that happened enough times, she probably wouldn't want to touch the stuff.

• Why is Gil (or anyone) even considering the possibility that he was infected while in Paris? Gil was onboard Castle Wulfenbach for at least several months after Klaus realized that there were other types of revenants and started testing for them? He went to the trouble of testing Du Pree but never thought that Gil was worth testing? Which is more plausible; the idea that Klaus is infected and gave Gil a false positive or the idea that Klaus never once bothered to test the second most important person in the entire empire? Additionally, Gil is highly trained and has a good deal of experience with chemistry and human anatomy and he doesn't believe that there was anything in Tarvek's formula that would kill a human. Isn't it more likely that Klaus, realizing that Du Pree was given the antidote to the wasps, poisoned her himself?
  • I'm not sure about people with an outside perspective, but Gil grew up seeing Klaus be Always Right, and his only source for Klaus being wasped is Tarvek, who he still mistrusts. He's also just now hearing this, and is in a state of some distress. I'm sure he'll see the holes in the story once he has a chance to think. (As for Dupree, the "poison" might just be more side effects from that dose.)

• Agatha's going for two minutes after first ringing the Doom Bell without killing anybody was considered a new record. Given that the Heterodyne Boys weren't evil (unlike most of their ancestors), what happened when they first rang it?
  • Considering the emphasis on "anybody," I'm guessing they had to kill a treacherous adviser or something like that. So it was justified, but it still counted against them for the purpose of the record. Then there's the theory that they killed their own father for just being that evil, but that's WMG territory.
    • Actually, we find out in the novelisation that their mother killed their father - because he was so frustrated at his children not turning out to be "proper" (i.e. evil) Heterodynes that he was plotting to murder Bill and Barry and 'try again'. Castle Heterodyne then immediately killed her for attacking the ruling Heterodyne, explaining Bill & Barry's hatred for and mistrust of their ancestral home and most things connected with it. Their mother was later canonized as Saint Teodora, Patron Saint of Those Who Fall Afoul Of Sparks.