< Veronica Mars

Veronica Mars/Headscratchers


Throughout Season 1, Veronica occasionally interacts with Lilly Kane's "ghost," but it can safely be assumed these are all figments of Veronica's imagination, since none of them serve as anything more than memory triggers or talks with her own subconscious. They don't tell her anything she doesn't already know, and have no affect on the material world at all. However, in the very first episode of season 2, Veronica sees and hears what appears to be Lilly Kane's ghost once again, who distracts Veronica and lures her around the corner of a building to a surprise encounter with Weevil, who she talks with just long enough to miss getting back on her bus. The bus that later drives off a cliff and explodes. Either that's one ridiculously convenient hallucination... or Lilly's ghost really did appear to save Veronica's life. Either way, this is never mentioned or referred to afterward. Anywhere. W.T.F.

  • I always thought of it as Veronica barely/subconsciously hearing the motorcycle, and reacting with a Lilly hallucination relating to both Lilly's relationship with Weevil and her predilection for getting into trouble (like abandoning your field trip at a random rest stop). The bus crash survival was indeed a convenient coincidence. But it is a Hand Wave, for sure.
  • Veronica had a bad enough reputation as it is. It's hard to tell someone 'Oh yeah, by the way, I've been talking to my best friend's ghost for a while' without sounding mentally unstable at the least. Whoever she told could tell anyone- tell one wrong person and the whole town knows, or tell the right person in the wrong place and the wrong person overhears and tells everyone, and then Veronica's insane as well as a social outcast.
  • It's not that uncommon for people to attribute things they barely noticed to supernatural warnings. Things like glimpses in our peripheral vision that years of evolution channel straight to "Duck now," people later say "it's like someone whispered in my ear." In reality it's just our animal instincts saving us, but for some reason we convince ourselves it's something else.

Okay; so Aaron Echols managed to bullshit his way to an acquittal for murdering Lilly Kane. Fine. Truth in Television. (Except not, because bringing up Veronica's medical records should've been an instant mistrial for several reasons and possibly resulted in jail time for Echolls' attorney...) So what happened to the charges for kidnapping Veronica, assaulting Keith, and trying to kill them both by setting some guy's house on fire? Did the local prosecutors just forget about HOW they caught Aaron in the first place?

  • He claimed he got into Veronica's car with her permission, she crashed, and they walked to the guy's house and called for help, after which Keith arrived and attacked him unprovoked. The homeowner, the only uninvolved witness, "mysteriously disappeared" before the trial.
    • Except any sort of forensic investigation, you know, at all would have blown huge holes in this story. If Keith attacked unprovoked why are Aaron's fingerprints all over the gas which started a fire. Why was there a fire in the first place? And it is somewhat unlikely that Veronica would have climbed inside and locked herself into an old refrigerator, and set it on fire. There would certainly be hair and blood inside the fridge from Veronica. There are alote more things than that too.

And on the subject: Why the hell wasn't the tape of Aaron having sex with Lilly authenticated and copied? (Other than the "real" reason)?

  • I thought it was and all the copies were destroyed.
    • That was a bit of a plot point, IIRC, as far as no copies of the tapes being made to ensure the sex tape didn't leak.
      • Because there would be such a huge market for what's essentially stolen child porn.
        • On a technical point, Lilly was seventeen which is only considered below the age of consent in about a fourth of the states.
        • It's a tape of a middle-age married movie star having sex with the teenage daughter of a computer billionaire. It would be big news.
      • That might have made a valid and consistent (if gratuitous) shot at Lamb's incompetence had he stated that's the reason there was no copy. But then again, shouldn't the defense have already had a copy via Discovery? I'd hate to think that Echols' lawyer wouldn't want to see the damn thing for himself, if just to look for potential flaws to exploit.

Also, if Aaron really did kill Lilly with the ashtray, what was the point of the bloody Oscar statue with Duncan's hair and how did it get that way?

  • I assume the ashtray is locked away in the evidence room (though it seems quite easily accessible as shown more than once). Aaron wanted it to look like Duncan did it, so he needed Duncan's hair on the murder weapon. Unable to get to the ashtray, the Oscar statue was made to look like the real murder weapon. Coincidentally, the ashtray was found in the pool, so it can be assumed that Lilly's blood was washed away by the pool water. What really bugs me is how Lilly's blood got on the Oscar statue (that's why it was believed to be the murder weapon, right?). It's also a little strange that Veronica and Logan were the only ones who saw the tapes. Didn't anyone else review the tapes at all before they were stolen? What about the people who made copies, if any?

Veronica Mars blatantly uses everyone in the show for her ubiquitous 'favours', never seeming to value people for anything other than what she can use them for. Like half the characters only exist so they can do something for her every now and again. Oh, she almost drives Logan to suicide. How do people put up with this shit?

  • She's attractive, for one thing, which tends to help when you're looking for "favors" from adolescent males. Plus it's not exactly a selfless act of altruism to do a favor for somebody who's very good at getting people out of bad situations, up to and including murder charges. The person who does most of her favors, meanwhile, is her closest friend; it's an uneven relationship, but there's real affection there.
    • I'd also toss in, at least as far as Logan is concerned, that there has to be an aspect of Logan feeling remorse/regret for how badly he treated Veronica in the fall-out of Lilly's death as far as why he lets Veronica walk all over him. Especially given the context of Veronica versus Dick Cassablancas, as far as Veronica being the BFF who doesn't mindlessly enable Logan's dark side, whereas Dick seems to exist largely to nudge Logan down the paths of doing bad things without thinking, because they are young and rich.
    • And as far as Wallace is concerned, the first moment he laid eyes on Veronica, she cut him down from a flagpole someone had taped him buck naked to. Then got the guys who did the taping to leave him alone. Wallace may be asked for favors a lot, but the favors are usually pretty small. The ones he has done for him are generally both large and have an element of danger or illegality. Plus, she baked him cookies. Hell, pretty much everyone Veronica asks for favors asks her at some point for bigger ones, except maybe Mac, who gets paid at least some of the time for her efforts.
    • In fact, it's a running subplot throughout that her friends start to call her on this. Because it is a side-effect of her general alienation, and it is something she is shown 'working on.'
    • Let's also notice that, while Veronica does ask people to do her favors, she repays those favors every so often. For example, she springs Weevil from jail in season one and gets him the job at the university in season three.
    • She actually springs him from jail twice in the first season and gets him two jobs in the third.
    • Veronica gives as much as she gets (if not more). They use her too. Everyone on the show gets into trouble and then relies on other people to help them out. But despite that, I still agree that this is a bad side to Veronica's relationships with the people she's close to.
  • As others have explained, it's not as one-sided as you make it out to be. But the quick summary is, her life is complicated, and she's not perfect, but she's trying to do better. And her few friendships are genuine, even if she's not good at showing it. Those who recognize these things are more than happy to be her friends.

Also, Veronica's a really long name, why doesn't anyone call her Ronnie or Mars?

  • 1) They do. Well, okay, a few people call her Mars; she only goes by "Ronnie" once or twice. And then..."Veronica Mars". Say it. It has a nice rhythem to it.
    • As I recall, Weevil calls her 'V' quite often.
      • As does the lawyer guy.
    • Dick is the only one who ever calls her "Ronnie" and she seems to be annoyed by it. (But maybe that's just because it's Dick.)

What the hell happened to Veronica getting into Stanford? I mean, it was always blatantly obvious from a narrative-convenience standpoint that everyone who wasn't on the run from the law by the end of season 2 was going to Californ...er, Hearst University, but the writers never bothered to justify it. A season and a half after establishing the Kane Scholarship as Veronica's ticket out of Neptune, and with her race with various Jerk Asses for the valedictorian spot being a recurring subplot during senior year, somehow they never get around to telling us whether or not she got it - even in the episode set during her graduation ceremony! And then at the start of season 3, she's perfectly happy sticking close to home for college. Seriously, what the hell?

  • She threw away her chance at the scholarship when she walked out on her last exam to see the Aaron Echolls verdict. This is led into earlier in the episode when she mentions that she needs to be perfect on all her final exams to have any chance at the scholarship, leading to that episode having a double Downer Ending in one fell stroke.
  • As for her being "happy" - it's likely that thinking her father died in a plane explosion and then seeing him alive the next day makes her put things in perspective and decide that there are worse things than staying in Neptune.
    • The episode in question did a saving throw for why Veronica would throw away her chances to get into her dream college; she had learned that Wallace was set to attend Hearst college and that while she was taking her final exam and got word that the Echolls verdict was about to be read via her PDA, she managed to see Wallace fumbling while emptying out his locker. This led to her skipping the exam, under the logic that she'd be content with life at Hearst since at least she'd be near her best friend.
    • Right before that final exam, Wallace tells Veronica how much being friends with her has meant to him, and she looks like she's realizing for the first time that she'll miss him. Then she gets that text about the verdict being in, and she runs out to be there. I took it as the show saying Veronica's friendship with Wallace and her desire to see bad guys get what's coming to them are her reasons to stay in Neptune.

In "Drinking the Kool-Aid," there's a flashback designed to show what a jerk Casey was before joining the Moon Calf Collective. Problem is, his "jerk" behavior is pointing out that Weevil's poem for class was actually lyrics he stole from a Social Distortion song. Isn't stopping someone from getting away with plagiarism, you know, kind of a good thing?

  • It's a subjective thing, I guess. Maybe the others in the class didn't recognize it, but aside from Casey's girlfriend I didn't see anyone really amused or pleased with the exposure. Given that it seemed to be a love poetry class with all the couples snuggled up with each other, maybe they just didn't want anyone harshing the vibe? Still a bad example when you could probably have him mocking the hell out of somebody to get it across far more easily.
  • It's 'cause he was a total dick about it. If he'd been angry that Weevil had cheated, that would be one thing, but he seemed smug and amused that he was getting someone into trouble.
  • Actually, what was with that bit at the end of 'Drinking the Kool-Aid'? I don't mean the whole getting the test results and shredding them, the bit where Casey gets kidnapped and then they see him at school. What was it meant to mean?
    • Casey was grabbed by some deprogrammers hired by his parents, they then isolated him and brainwashed him to normal. Which, in his case, was being a selfish, money-obsessed asshole. Hence making an ironic contrast with the start of the episode, when Veronica and the audience assumed the cult was evil.

The kidnapping of Duncan's daughter irks me to no end. Not only can Duncan easily afford the best lawyers in town, but this is the one time where they can get, of all people, Sheriff Lamb as a witness to the grandparents being abusive, and they INSTEAD opt to commit an elaborately executed felony? Just how much do the writers not trust law and order and the legal system in this country?

  • About as far as their weakest member could throw the fattest lawyer. See the Echolls trial and the complete lack of mistrial for illegally revealing a witness's medical records.
  • Plus, it's Duncan's parents who can easily afford the best lawyers in town. He's an emancipated minor with type 4 epilepsy. If he has to resort to selling his mother's jewelry to alledgedly afford a lawyer (but really fund a kidnapping), then chances are that Duncan's parents weren't willing to help him out in the first place.
  • Lamb wouldn't testify in court. He gave Duncan and Veronica a break, but Lamb didn't do much else. Even when the issue was something he could identify with.

From the very beginning, we're supposed to believe that Keith Mars was unjustly removed as sheriff because the people didn't like him accusing Mr. Kane of killing his daughter. But even Keith eventually realizes he didn't kill Lilly; at worst, he covered up evidence to protect Duncan. Regardless of what crimes the Kane's did commit, Keith accused them of MURDER, his accusation was WRONG, and thust the recall vote was JUSTIFIED.

  • Last I checked, Obstruction Of Justice (or Tampering With Evidence, depending on the jurisdiction) is still a felony. And if you're tampering with evidence, what Sherrif worth the metal his badge is made of isn't going to look long and hard at why?
  • Also, the Kanes thought Duncan was guilty, and were behaving like people who were guilty. If you're investigating a murder, and you're certain that someone who's been acting suspiciously also bribed the supposed murderer to confess, and planted false evidence linking him to the crime (all of which the Kanes did), what are you supposed to think? In short, it's only justified if you have an Omniscient Morality License, which even the Kanes themselves didn't have.
    • Plus, Keith didn't know for sure that Duncan murdered Lilly, but he knew something was wrong from the way the Kanes had shifted evidence. He was right to dig deeper, and it was just because of Kane's vast wealth that they threw off the investigation. Also, by covering everything up the Kanes prevented the more thorough investigation that could have uncovered the real culprit much earlier.
  • Keith wasn't removed from office for his actions against the Kane family, even though that did make the people of Neptune doubt his judgment and performance as Sheriff. The recall election was called because the crime scene video of Lilly Kane's body ended up on the internet.

How could the Hearst University board decide to actually vote on whether or not to ban the fraternities? What is their justification? Not only have none of them been proven to have committed any of the rapes, but the biggest accusations against them were actually frame-jobs organized by the very people who want them off campus! Kicking the newspaper off campus would actually make more sense.

  • Colleges can indeed kick fraternities off-campus for major screw-ups, but usually there is a sliding scale of punishment to be had where they would suspend the fraternity first before resorting to banning it. But you are right that the way the plot was handled very badly.

Dick Casablancas; the fact that Veronica and Logan still hang out with him after the events of "A Trip to the Dentist" (which revealed that he set Veronica's rape into motion via his desire to drug/rape Madison) was one major league wallbanger.

  • Then Veronica putting so much of the blame on getting drugged on Madison. As far as I can tell, she didn't know the drink she gave Veronica was drugged. She might be a bitch, but she's a bitch who was innocent of the worst thing she was blamed for. Especially odd because Logan having sex with Madison is why Veronica breaks up with him for good.
    • It's Veronica's nature to blame those she hates the most, so she chooses the Alpha Bitch instead of the guy who she sees as little more than an annoyance. Remember, this is the same person who immediately assumed Celeste Kane was Trina Echolls' real mother so that she would have something to humiliate Celeste with.
  • Logan was in on it... he was the one who put GHB in Duncan's drink. It sounds like A LOT of 09ers were in on it-- so it's sad how there wasn't a single consequence for those guys.

From Ain't No Magic Mountain High Enough, the whole "Remember Sally?" thing... Who?

  • Word of God claims that it was a past pet of Dick's that "mysteriously" went missing after he messed with Cassidy.
How did Cassidy get chlamydia? It's not like he was sleeping with a lot of, or any, people other than Veronica who supposedly got it from him.
    • Wasn't it stated that he got it from Woody Goodman?
      • Doesn't make sense. That requires neither Woody or him to have not had the sort of routine check-up that Veronica got when she found out. Considering the level of health care the rich people in the series should be getting, that's just plain unbelievable.
      • Well, Woody was actually treated twice - he did get the routine checkups, it just never stayed gone. Cassidy was horribly ashamed of what happened to him, remember, and likely had no symptoms - so a doctor probably wouldn't do that kind of test unless he told them too, and even if they did, he might just ignore it in the frantic attempt to not deal. (Note - I know like nothing about how the medical system works)
  • The problem is that the chlamydia was treated by the writers as a clue, rather than a disease. It seems like a pretty good way to confirm that Cassidy was molested (and unfortunately, makes it a lot less vague what exactly Woody did to him), connect him with Veronica's rape, and through the revelation that he raped an unconscious girl, reveal his motivation for the murders (his fear of sexual inadequacy caused by the trauma of being molested, and possibly also homosexuality, depending on your interpretation). But then you think about it, and it makes no sense. In actuality, if Cassidy got chlamydia when Woody raped him as a child, this means that he'd had it for years when he raped Veronica. At that point, if it had gone untreated, he would be suffering some serious effects of the disease, not to mention it would probably have been noticed by his doctor if he'd been getting regular check-ups. (And he's rich, so we can probably assume that he had.) Plus, chlamydia is easily treated with antibiotics... did Cassidy really never take antibiotics in the time between his rape and Veronica's? Also, there's the fact that if Veronica got the disease from him, then she also had it when she had sex with Duncan before the events of Season 1 even happened, which means that Veronica should have been concerned that Duncan, Meg, and Meg's baby all could have gotten it. But my guess is that the writers never considered this possibility, since the spread of the disease wasn't addressed again once Veronica finished her treatment.

From "I Am God," one of our hints at what really happens appears to be "Why was [Peter] even on the bus?" But, given the solution, why was he on the bus? That would make him less likely to go, unless he and Marcos were planning on confronting Woody there - which they didn't. I assume Cassidy said something, but... what?

  • My guess is they did talk to Woody, but it wasn't shown - or else they figured that if he saw three of his victims there, it would scare him and cause him to realize they had talked to each other about the abuse and planned to tell the authorities about it. Either scenario seems possible since Woody told Gia not to go back on the bus. He probably didn't want her leaving with any of the victims in case they tried to tell her something.

In "Wichita Linebacker", why did Veronica use the printer in the coach's office instead of just downloading/forwarding the pdf file and printing it later, safely where she wouldn't get caught?

  • I think she wanted to be in the office for as little time as she could, and printing would have been quicker than doing a file transfer had the printer worked.

When did all those people have time to see Veronica alone in the guest room at Shelly Pomroy's party? In "A Trip to the Dentist," Logan tells Veronica that he gave Duncan the drugged drink, then Duncan left with her. The flashback shows that Duncan didn't leave until the morning. This brings me to my next question, when did Cassidy rape Veronica?

  • Yeah, that whole plot point really felt like an attempt to make a completely randomly chosen villain even more evil, canon and character continuity be damned.
    • I assumed that Cassidy raped Veronica and left her alone before Duncan came in ... as for character continuity, we saw that Cassidy had various sexual hangups and other issues, and victims of abuse are more likely to be abusers themselves.
      • Keep in mind that almost everyone was drunk minus very few people. Not only that, but everyone kept changing their story to suit their personal interest. All we know is that Veronica was raped--not when. Beaver--it's Cassidy--could have easily raped her in five minutes or less and slipped out unnoticed. Then walks in Duncan a few minutes later. As far as Duncan leaving with Veronica sometime during the party, they could have gotten split up while they were together. Also, I don't think many people saw her in the bedroom, but maybe a lot considering it was more than two. It was Dick, Beaver--it's Cassidy-- and some other guy, then I think one of two more people. The story is still plausible, but conflicting POV's borders on discrediting the story.

How in the hell did Clint get appointed to Logan? If you can afford an attorney, the Court WON'T APPOINT YOU ONE. In addition, what the hell is Clint's job? At times I think he's the local Public Defender, at others he seems like he has a private practice. Does California not have full-time Public Defenders?

  • They do have full-time public defenders, but they (the PD's offices) also subcontract work out to private defense attorneys because the caseload is much larger than they can handle. Believe it or not, that's one of the few legal/law-related things they do that's even remotely plausible.

Just what exactly did Cassidy do to Mac at the end season 2?

  • Word of God is that Cassidy stole Mac's clothes so she couldn't follow him when he went after Veronica. He didn't hurt Mac (physically). The real question is what would he have done had he actually succeeded in killing Veronica?

This has been bugging me for a while. Why is everyone in the same classes? Most prominently, the person competing with Veronica for the Kane Scholarship is in the same class as Wallace (who just wants to pass), Logan (who doesn't give a fuck) and Dick (who makes inappropriate comments the whole time). Shouldn't a school district with really rich people offer AP courses and non-AP courses?

  • At my school, at least, we had AP classes, but only a couple of them, and they were optional (I can only remember one specifically: AP Calculus). So it's possible that there just wasn't an AP Physics, or whatever that class was. On the other hand, it's possible that the class WAS an AP course and Wallace was just doing poor in it.

In the beginning of Season 1, we found out that no one has been claiming the $100,000 reward money for finding Lilly's murderer. Wouldn't Veronica (or her dad) be able to do so after they, you know, found the real murderer? Yet in season 2 Veronica still has to work as a waitress to save money for college, so apparently not. Or is this included in that "promise you will never ask us for money again" agreement?

  • The award money was "awarded", since Abel Koontz had been turned in. It's just that no one claimed the reward for specifically turning him in. The Kanes probably then decided that the $100,000 was a one-time only offer, especially since they had no desire to give the Mars family any money.
  • Not to mention that the Kanes were behind the anonymous tip themselves. They thought they knew who the real murderer was the whole time, and were trying to cover for him, so they probably never intended to give the reward to anybody.

So, Lianne Mars wasn't sure who Veronica's father was. She knew (presumably, for her daughter's whole life) that there was a chance it was Jake Kane, and Jake Kane also had to understand this was a possibility. Yet none of them never had any problem with Veronica dating Duncan back before Lilly's death? Or did their secret mean more for them than a possible Brother-Sister Incest? Even then, they could've terminated the V/D affair back at its start without uncovering anything, probably.

  • We were shown Lianne's reaction when she found out that Veronica and Duncan were dating, and she was horrified -- it's just that we didn't find out until much later why. I think she just figured there wasn't much that she could do about it without revealing her affair with Jake.
  • It's also possible that this is another reason Celeste was constantly trying to break Duncan and Veronica up and why Jake Kane was visibly uncomfortable around her in the episode four flashbacks.

What really Just Bugs Me is how every fan of Sheriff Lamb points to the episode where he doesn't arrest Veronica and Duncan for breaking into the Manning's house as proof that he's really got a heart and that he can do the right thing. Sure, he didn't arrest Veronica, but he also does nothing to stop the abuse the Manning's are dishing out to their children. These people are inflicting serious psychological and (maybe) physical abuse on their kids, Lamb knows, and does nothing. All he did was not stoop to his usual level of assholery.

  • What could Lamb reasonably have been expected to do? He has no proof of this abuse and the Mannings are powerful people in a town where the rich run things. Unless someone else reports it (and Duncan and Veronica hardly report what they saw) then legally he can't really do anything.

After Lianne stole the check from the Kanes at the end of Season 1, why did Keith just let her get away with that instead of having the Kanes stop the check and issue them a new one?

    • Keith was in the hospital after catching on fire while saving Veronica, and Veronica was handling Logan's murder drama, so it probably wasn't discovered until it was too late. She disappeared pretty well before, and now she has the experience to do it better.

Why didn't Veronica release the Sherriff Lamb cd from "the beetle" that incriminated Sherrif Lamb? Lamb's clearly an incompetent asshat who (at least up to this point in the series) has not had a single instance of being a decent cop? *facepalm* You know what's even more hilarious? She chews her father out for not releasing the other piece of evidence (the voice mail) even though his reasons for keeping it hidden are much better. Can you say hypocrisy?

How was Aaron's death ruled a suicide when he was SHOT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD?

    • It's not actually shown where he was shot; you just see the gun, the blood spatter, then the killer.
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