ThunderCats (2011 series)/Headscratchers

NOTE: Unmarked spoilers ahead.

• If the Lizards have War Mechs the size of a castle, homing missles, land mines, and laser rifles, while the Cats have swords and arrows and don't even believe technology is real... how did the Cats get to be the ruling power and the Lizards the slaves in the first place?
  • It's likely that the Lizards didn't have that tech before they went and found Mumm-Ra with the help of the traitor. This is backstory that hasn't been filled in yet, so it's not really Fridge Logic.
  • If you recall Grune says he was sent to find the Book of Omens but found absolute power instead (absolute power being technology).
  • Yeah, just look at the heroes' faces when that technology shows up: it's the first time any of them have ever seen it. The Lizards having that kind of weaponry is a very new development for them (probably as part of a Deal with the Devil with Mumm-Ra).

• Why were Kit and Kat running away from the underground shelter? I realize that if they had stayed there they would have been crushed by flaming boulders, but it still seems like a dumb thing to do. Were they afraid of getting arrested, or were they thrown out because they had tails? Did I miss something?
  • Perhaps they were simply Genre Savvy enough to know that running with the crowd is not necessarily the best option. They probably had another hiding spot in mind.
  • Actually they were probably doing JUST that, running away from the crowds...they even say "That could have been us!"
  • Yes to the Genre Savvy, but probably no to the other hiding place, it looked like they were running next to the walls of the city, so they probably fled to the surrounding fields.
  • And hey, if you strike out on your own, that means you're free to steal the goodies everyone leaves behind! Which is exactly what they do next episode.

• Why did no one find it suspicious that Grune managed to capture so many Lizards and force them to haul a giant rock for who knows how long all by himself?
  • Because at that point everyone thinks Grune is just plain awesome, and doesn't (at the moment) come off as Obviously Evil. Hell, all the trailers were very careful about keeping his betrayal a secret (but the fans figured it out anyway.)
    • Of course we figured it out. In a past cartoon Grune's voice actor (Clancy Brown) was a part of, he played a despicable, heartless soul who would've desecrated the dead and sold out his own mother just to make a buck. Oh, and he voiced Lex Luthor, too.
    • Mr. Krabs?
      • Not to mention the character Grune the Destroyer in the old series was thoroughly evil. I'd be surprised if anyone didnt figure it out.
  • Also, if the slave Lizards hauling the Geode weren't fully aware of their army's Trojan Horse con (a distinct possibility, judging by the prisoners' behavior) they might've easily been captured due to their peasant status and deeply Internalized Categorism from a long history of defeat at the Cats' hands.
  • On a related note, why does everyone assume that the Lizard attack was in direct response to Lion-O's generosity? For all they knew, the attack was in response to Grune's actions and the timing was coincidental; he could've stolen a cultural treasure for all they knew.
    • The uppercrust of Thunderian society is completly intrenched in the philosophy the of rule through force and that anything other than crushing your enemy is a sign of weakness.
    • Exactly. Racism is not rational.
  • No one likes Lion-O. Everyone, at the time, loves Grune.
  • Despite his father's "see what happens when you show weakness" tone, I don't think anyone literally thought it was a direct response to Lion-O releasing them. Even if the Lizards had responded that way, there's no way they could have set up all that in just a few hours. He was mostly saying that this attack is a perfect example of why mercy is wasted on the Lizards (which is still a false argument - if anything, letting the two captives go was simply too little, too late - but a more understandable one).

• With the torch secret door opening, how the come Lizards decided to shoot the open instead of you know use the torch switch? I mean in the context of that scene they were clearly watching them, since they shot Jaga. I know it was a means to provide time for the heroes to escape but it just seems weird for to blatantly ignore a door switch.
  • My guess? There was probably more to the switch than just turning the lantern. Something subtle that had to be done to get the lantern to turn to begin with. Secret passages are funny like that.
  • Jaga might have also locked it from the other side, somehow.
  • The most logical explanation is that the door automatically locks after it's used, the only way to unlock it is on the other side.

• So... if the Sandsea (a known and named place a few days' trek from Thundera) is home to a crew of pirates on an airship, complete with laser cannon... how did Technology become a myth, again?
  • The crew of the ship came from its far side and until recently did not see the side where the Thundercats empire was located.
    • Indeed, they didn't even seem to know Thunderians existed before meeting The Thundercats.
  • Likewise, the Thundercats themselves are shocked to see the Fish People and their flying ship. The Sandsea may be a known place, but its inhabitants were a mystery to Thunderians as they had no way to cross it. When confronted by it, they first try to find a way around.

• Just what IS Snarf? A mix between a ridiculously adorable fat kitty...bat-eared thing and Eastern dragon?
  • He's a Snarf, just like in the original show.

• So, Lion-O stops helping the captain attack the Ramlak because he's worried that the crew, composed of Fishmen, will drown?
  • Drown in the Sand Sea. Somehow, I doubt the fishmen can breathe sand.
  • And even if they could breathe sand (unlikely), Cheetara and the others were thrown overboard too, and they certainly can't.

• If having a tail marks you as a lower-class cat...why don't they all just amputate their tails? After all, wearing clothes seems to be common across classes, so it's not like everyone would be able to see a scar on their butt and know they were born with a tail.
  • Balance issues, maybe? Or perhaps (more unlikely) the tail contains some spinal cord?
  • I would imagine a scenario similar to the novel The War of the Flowers, which features a society where wingless fairies are aristocrats and fairies with wings are seen as lower-class. In that book, many lower-class fairies do get surgery to remove their wings in order to be more like their rulers, but at least as many don't, either out of pride in their heritage or because they simply can't afford it. A similar scenario seems pretty likely here.
  • It's entirely possible that some cats do it. In some of the flashbacks, Panthro can be very clearly seen in the tail but he no longer has one. (though cutting off a tail for such reasons would be a strange thing for his character to do. Maybe he was more self concious in his younger years?)
    • It's also possible he lost it in a fight.

• So, Panthro's been established as being one of the two best Generals of the Thundercats (aside from Grune), and it's implied pretty strongly that he's as close a friend of the family as Grune was. So why, in "Song of the Petalars", does neither Lion-O nor Tygra recognize him, nor he them? Even if the latter was a case of the pair having grown larger since Panthro last saw them, the Sword of Omens would be a pretty dead giveaway, wouldn't it?
  • At that point, Panthro's face was shown only in shadow. It's not a stretch to say that both he and the Thundercats couldn't see each other clearly. Besides, Panthro was betrayed by Grune, who was heading back to Thundera. As far as anyone knew, he was KIA.
  • I think it's fair to say that they don't have the perfect night vision real cats do. Otherwise, why would they need torches and such in their kingdom? But getting to the point, it's likely that the combination of Panthro's sudden appearance, and being in shadow made it difficult to immediately recognize him.
  • I think it is pretty safe to guess that Panthro was fully aware of who they were even before actually meeting the team, simply because he was answering to the THUNDERCATS HOOOOOO call. I don't think spotlights with the Thundercats logo are that common in the Third Earth.
  • For all they knew, Panthro could have been dead since nobody had any reason to assume Grune might have been lying about that.

• In episode 1, Tygra refused to believe in technology. In episode 2, he picks up a gun and is instantly a crack shot. Meanwhile, the Lizards who presumably have been trained with high tech weapons are plagued with Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy syndrome.
  • Well it would be an extremely short show if the Lizards never missed a shot... Though the ones who ambushed Lion-O and the others in "Song of the Petalars" seemed pretty good at their job.
  • There is an in-story reason. That bastard Tygra is good at everything.
  • Or it's Fridge Brilliance. If you have any projectile weapon, why not aim for the head instead of those mummy bandages? Tygra probably didn't know how to compensate for when he pulled the trigger and just got two semi-lucky shots.

• There weren't any bodies at the ruins of Thundera, which is easily explained by the need to avoid graphic depictions in a kid-friendly cartoon. But was the entire Thundercat race wiped out here, or did they flee in the wake of destruction? I'm confused. If not, there's no explanation of why he's not moving to protect the surviving cats, since that would be a primary duty of a king. That part isn't explained or even lampshaded. If they ARE wiped out, he's taking it rather well- is there any point to seeking the Book of Omens, since there's no race or kingdom left to save, outside of their small entourage, heroically risking their lives to save a kingdom which has no surviving members?
  • The Thunderians could have been taken as slaves as payback for how they treated the Lizards.
    • Then he should be fighting to free them, but hasn't even MENTIONED captive Thundercats
  • If there are other survivors, there IS an explanation for why Lion-O isn't racing to help them, since Jaga told him that finding the Book of Omens was the absolute imperative, and Lion-O obviously trusted the old man.
    • He already put pursuit of the Book of Omens on the back burner for "revenge" against Mumm-Ra. Not freeing his captive people- just killing Mumm-Ra. The story doesn't establish the existence of any other Thundercats, and there's these cases where they'd be required to come up in the plot if they DID exist. Without a Thundercat race, the plot and characters are oddly broken (can't fight for a nonexistent people, you're not a king or "lord", and it brings deep questions about the meaning of your own existence if none of your kind exist anymore). Maybe they'll bring them up later, but the reasoning and actions of the characters is broken until then, because they're not acting properly for the premise of the Thundercats being in captivity OR the Thundercats being essentially extinct.
    • Judging from Jaga's desperation, the Book Of Omens is an artifact that if Mumm-Ra acquires it, could spell doom on an existential/planetary scale. Freeing his people first would be another narcissistic tactical error in prioritizing, and do little good if it meant Mumm-Ra beating him to the book.
      • Judging from episode 7, "Legacy", the Book of Omens was merely a chronicle of the past that happened to be mixed with magic and technology. Said chronicle doesn't even know the locations of the three stones. There may be more to it than that, but the end of the episode makes it seem like it's not important anymore, instead making way for a new set of MacGuffins.
        • Um I think you missed the part about the book being both the main computer to Mumm-Ra's ship and what tracked down the stones in the first place. Mumm-Ra getting it back is very bad news.
    • According to Word of God, the other Thunderians were all killed in the attack. However, they've lied about Panthro before, so we may come across captive Thunderians in later episodes.
      • Um, no, they actually said that some were killed, some were taken as slaves, and others ran into the woods to hide.
  • He's dramatically declaring himself as king, Lord of the Thundercats, of which, if I've counted correctly, there's a grand total if 5 right now. INCLUDING the Lord, and two small annoyingly cute children, though I did not count the Snarf, because he did not declare himself Lord "of the Thundercats and Snarf". Basically, you are sovereign of two other adults, and one of them is his brother, which puts your sum of leadership powers and responsibilities on par with being a manager at Carl's Jr.
  • Among the Dogs and Lizards at least The Thundercats are pretty infamous as heavy-handed badasses. He probably forgot that he's moving further and further outside Thundera's sphere of influence and assumed their reputation would precede them. It's not a hard conclusion to jump to when you spend your entire life as the prince of one of the more powerful empires out there and you're just a kid thrown way out of your element.
  • Also, remember, Lion-O's an idiot teenager and the subplot of episode 5 was basically about how Panthro (the Audience Surrogate for grown-ups) pretty much agrees with everything said above.
  • It's also a matter of Lion-O not wanting to let his father's legacy fade away. The Thundercat nation may now be nothing more then 3 teens, 2 kittens, an adult and a pet, but they're HIS nation, and he will lead them to safety and victory, and he will not shame his father.
  • There's also the fact that it was set up this way in the original, too. Thundera exploded and most of the cats died; it's implied others escaped, but we went through a whole season before anyone was looking for them, and then only for the handful who also happened to crash-land on Third Earth, despite having friends with spaceships. So being lord of a handful is kinda the Thundercats' "thing".

• (very minor thing) In episode 4 one of the Lizards (don't know his name) went invisible as they carried on going after the Thundercats. i might of missed something but what was the point? to establish he can go invisible?
  • Pretty much, yeah.
  • His character design is interesting enough that he might be a recurrer.
  • The guys a big showoff, nuff said.
  • That particular lizard is a chameleon. Going "invisible" via super-camouflage is just his thing.

• How did Panthro get his Nunchuks back?
  • Probably had another set or made them. It's not like all the weapons are rare and one of a kind, just the Sword.
    • Yes. If you can repair a Thundertank, you can attach two sticks to a chain.
  • He probably was carrying a pair of them. Grune only brought back one set.
    • That's the most likely explanation. In the 80s show, Panthro did have two pairs of nunchucks.

• In episode 1, when Lion-O and Tygra stepped in to defend the two lizards, did it never occur to the angry mob that they were attacking both of their king's sons? I know Lion-O's not well-liked, but jeez, didn't it occur to them what a bad idea that was?
  • Mob mentality is often fueled by stupidity and blind rage.
  • Also, from the slight mushmouthedness that seemed to afflict their pointman, I think we grownups are meant to assume at least some of them are drunk.
    • It was a party.

• Where did Grune keep his mace during 'Old Friends'? When he was climbing up Mumm-Ra's pyramid, running through its halls, and freeing him, it was no where to be seen. When Panthro says he won't join, Grune suddenly has it again.
  • In the same space we keep our hammers of course.
  • It definitely is one of the most glaring inconsistencies, considering they've been careful so far not to have characters yanking things out of thin air. Though, it's possible Mumm-Ra summoned it for him...
  • I'd claim it was a telescoping weapon a la the Sword Of Omens and Cheetara's staff, but that mace-head is so comically huge I don't see it being anything but a production error.

• It's not that I don't want to help, I just have this strict rule against accepting Side Quests from talking broccoli. No exceptions!
  • When the Petalars were all standing in a circle, was anyone else expecting a chorus of "Welcome Christmas"? They just looked so...Who-ish...
    • This was the first thing that crossed this Troper's mind when she watched it.
  • How can you not love the Petalars? There even cuter than the new Berbils!

• In the pilot they made a big deal about Mumm-Ra being vulnerable to sunlight yet he spends most of episode six walking around in broad daylight without so much as an umbrella.
  • Look carefully. The sky is depicted as relatively overcast and he's not seen without his drapey cloak. The extreme vulnerability to direct sunlight also seems to come particularly when attempting to transform or during his One-Winged Angel form, when he's gone full Vampire Bat on 'roids.
    • He was wearing his drapey cloak in the pilot too and had his back to the sunrise but it still burned him. Plus he transforms into his monster form in episode six during the day with no problems. It just feels like they should have at least lampshaded it.
  • It's possible that direct sunlight weakens him, but not fully cripples him. When he did pull off the change, he was inside the shrine, and likely had the cover of the surrounding area to keep him from being hit by the sun directly. At the top chamber, there wasn't as much room for light, and thus only Jaga's spell of light is what did him in.
  • It's also possible that now that he's free his sarcophagus is no longer a prison, but a sort of rejuvenation chamber where he can rest and restore his energies. In "Ancient Spirits of Evil" he hadn't had enough time to fully rest so the sunlight hurt him. In "Journey to the Tower of Omens" he's had more time to gather his powers and so only the super-intense direct light of Jaga's lantern can harm him.
  • In "Tower of Omens" he's shown wandering around while powered down in what's shown to be overcast weather (even through the tower windows) with his cloak on. It's while attempting to power-up (as in the premiere) or while powered-up in One-Winged Angel form that he became vulnerable and got scorched. There's no broad daylight about it.
  • It's probably just some sort of sun magic, but exactly which part of the light is he weak to? UV radiation? Sorry guys, that gets through clouds. Bright lights in general? Great, so let's lure him to a football stadium...
    • Dude, we're talking about a sorcerer mummy. Scientific logic isn't exactly something to apply here. Also, it may not be the UV radiation or the bright light, or even just sunlight in general, but the light of dawn. Symbolic reasoning and all: Dawn is the time that the sun rises and banishes all the shadows of the night, chasing away things hidden in the darkness. I'm pretty sure Mumm-Ra would be considered one of those things, so the rays of the rising sun would hurt (or at least severely weaken) him.
  • Maybe a weakness to bright light is simply a trade-off of his more powerful form, while in his "powered down" form he can do more magic (like shapeshifting) but isn't a very powerful fighter.

• So, the cats were Mumm-Ra's most trusted servants, oppressing other races for him since who knows how long. Thanks to Leo, animals rebel against the cats and Mumm-Ra. After the ship crashes... cats begin oppression anew. Ouch.
  • And this is a Headscratcher because... ? Really, it makes sense if you think about it: Even if there were cats sympathetic or egalitarian enough to want a more equal society, being the top of the social ladder is not only something they're used to but quite possibly something they're bred to. Considering that many cats may well have seen the use of the other animals as necessary rather than a moral issue, they may well have considered the suppression of other animals necessary for the kind of new life they envisioned for themselves. Plus there seem to be a lot of Might Makes Right within the cats, as seen at least in part by the physical competition between Lion-O and Tygra in the pilot.
  • And who is to say that Leo brought back oppression? For all we know, one of his successors decided the pecking order should be Cats on top and it just went from there.
    • Not to mention the fact that a good deal of animals died on the crash course to Third Earth (though still enough so they could reproduce and populate). It's slim and unlikely, but maybe Leo was among those that died in the crash, along Panthera and the others that wanted to change the social structure of animals? Just because the Cats were Honorary Brittanians animals doesn't mean they want to go back down to being the same as the Lizards or Dogs.

• In "Legacy", Mumm-Ra fled into his "coffin" to hide and live through the crash. Panthera breaks the control panel a few feet away from the coffin. Apparently, there is no way to open that coffin without the control panel. Considering he had his ship completely overthrown and no one was loyal to him anymore, how did he plan on getting out in the first place? Unless there's some kind of fail safe inside the coffin, but judging from the fact he was freed by Grune's bare hands many years later, there couldn't be anything in there. It also raises the question of why he didn't use magic to force the coffin open.
  • The most likely explanation is that Panthera wasn't so much destroying the control panel as she was shorting out the systems in the coffin, probably frying whatever release Mumm-Ra would have normally used. As for why he didn't use magic to blast his way out, maybe the coffin was just that strong? No point building it unless it was absolutely secure.
  • He hasn't been shown to be able to teleport yet, so that would leave using his magic to force his way out. Given that he doesn't seem the... ah, subtle, type, and one who fears pain and death, I would, in his position, have reservations about setting off a massive magical explosion several feet from my face.

• If Jaga knew the location of the Book of Omens (as evidenced by Mumm-Ra), and has been by Claudus' side for so long, why did Claudus never think to ask him where it was? Why did he bother sending Panthro and Grune to look for it?
  • It's possible he was unavailable or even requested by Claudus to not accompany them.
  • That or that he was hiding the fact that he knew from Claudus and everyone else.
  • Or he is under some Cleric-spell that prevents him from telling anyone outright; hence why Mumm-Ra must force him to reveal it via mystical means as a specter; he would no longer be under a physical bounding spell and would be free to reveal it as a spirit.

• Why was Mumm-Ra searching for the Book of Omens when he's actually looking for the three stones he lost? The Book doesn't know where they are (Lion-O wasn't told at all), so it seemed rather pointless to try to obtain it in the first place.
  • Mumm-Ra did use the Book in the past to locate the Warstones in the first place. Maybe he wants to use it again for that purpose.
  • Mumm-Ra doesn't necessarily know the Book doesn't know where the stones are. Or it's possible the Book DOES know where they are, but only Mumm-Ra knows how to fully access it. Besides, it's not like he has any other leads on the stones' locations either way.
  • Jaga specifically says the book will guide them to the other gems. If it doesn't know, it can find them. If it does know, then you can chalk it up to writer convenience (we were hitting the end of the episode), or the simple fact that the Book of Omens realized downloading all that information into Lion-O would only come to a bad end.

• In "The Duelist and The Drifter", other than plot convenience why is Tygra the one hooking up the Book of Omens to the Thundertank? Lion-O clearly has more tech experience than Tygra since Tygra didn't even believe in tech until Mumm-Ra destroyed Thundera.
  • Yes, but he's learned a lot about it since then.
    • In addition, no amount of fiddling with broken junk can really prepare you for an ancient artifact that is part-magic, or the task of interfacing with a main battle tank.
    • Also since the closest settlement was a swordsman village the swordsman of the group had to go, since there was the possibility that their money wouldn't be accepted and only Lion-O could have earned more.
    • But they didn't know that it was a swordsman village, so that still holds no water.
    • It's quite possible that Lion-O was sent away before the others got the idea to hook the book up to the tank.
    • It's also very possible that the others are well aware of the fact that Lion-O is much more of a "people person", certianly more so than Tygra!

• Here's a question, are Berbils cyborg-bears or machines with a fur coat?
  • Yes.
  • ...So funny I forgot to laugh.

• So, Lion-O frequently says "whisker's" as a sort of stand in for damn. Does it bother anyone else that not even Snarf actually HAS whiskers?
  • No, why should it?
  • People swear with weird things all the time, regardless of their correctness in the situation. Maybe it's a holdover from when they did have whiskers, like our fear of the number thirteen, or our innate fear of slimy things.

• In the episode with the Berbils, why didn't said Berbils build a wall around their village or something? Being captured for slavery appeared to be a common incidence for them, you'd think they'd take preventative measures.
  • Walls are only so good a preventative measure. Invaders still got past the Great Wall of China, after all.
  • Berbils didn't origianlly think in a tactical manner, they're village was therefore open to all. Needless to say, the Berbils have learned there leason.

• I love the show, but I have to ponder, why is there no real character struggle feel to the show? Its been about 11 or so episodes and outside the first 4 episodes, the characters feel like going through the motions. No reference to the massacre that started this whole thing, no real impact of how they feel about technology and the biggest issue I have, no real brotherly feel to Lion-O and Tigra. Why does Tigra not want to challenge Lion-O to kingship? Granted Lion-O's the messiah one of the family, but Tigra is the oldest and seems more groomed to be king. And with Panthro, he should feel more of a "King Claudus" stand in that Tigra and Lion-O emotionally bounce off of. Also Chetarra could do a touch more, presenting more of a conflicting force that can't decide the future reign of Lion-O or Tigra, or wanting to branch off in a new government, like a democracy. Maybe its the show's problem with not knowing how long the show could go on for, but I wish they could get their act more together.
  • The problem seems to me that the other cats are being treated like autonomous weapons rather than making any decisions for themselves; You could cut out almost everyone but Lion-O and not affect the plot of most episodes at all.
  • The problem with most fans of the new show is that they are waaay to impatient, the series has just started! Character development takes time! I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just being realistic. I've even read one ridiculous idea that someone wrote saying that all the characters other than Lion-O are some kind of hallucination! Please, try to be a little more patient.
    • Not completly unjustified. More than half a season in, and outside of their introductions none of the other Thundercats have done anything but provide backup or occasional one-liners. The single-episode characters like Emrick have gotten more development.
    • The showrunners have been very upfront that the first season is all about Lion-O and his own journey and development but they do try to add in little things for the other characters like Panthro's development in "Berbils" Or Tygra's gradual mellowing out and acceptance of technology as the series continues. This is still a step up from the old show where the entire series was about Lion-O and the other Thundercats were just sort of there to fill things out and make him look good. Very rarely did the other characters have any sort of development and there are even several episodes where they don't even appear or are mentioned. Personally I think the show is doing a good job of balancing things for being ten episodes in.
    • Well, Panthro has had TWO episodes focused on him. And now Wilykyt has had a chance to shine. I hope that will satisfy some people, and you know who you are, for a while.
    • "Into the Astral Plane" focused on Tygra -- more specifically, his resentment of his younger brother.
  • OP: After those episodes I feel better about the show now.

• Why, WHY does no one call Lion-O out of his constant screw-ups? I mean, it's okay that he makes mistakes, considering he's a reckless teenager, but shouldn't someone say something to him? "Hey, Lion-O, didn't you learn your lesson about rushing into battle like, two episodes ago?" Or even a muttered: "Lion'O messes up again, no surprise....." But no, the rest of the cast just passively follow Lion-O in whatever he does without ever bothering to argue or even react when he's obviously being an idiot. I get that he's king and everything, but Panthro's older and he didn't have any trouble calling out Lion-O in "Old Friends". Not to mention Tygra, who's Lion-O's big brother - it's kind of his job to speak up when Lion-O's doing something dumb.
  • I know why they don't call him out, because they'd do the same thing in his place! It's like there Klingons or something. If it's a dumb idea that involves hitting something, or smashing it, or throwing stuff at it there cool with it. But hey! Nobodies perfect right?
  • It is kind of subtle, but in "Sight Beyond Sight" Lion-O leaves to confront The Wraith alone. Maybe it's because none of the other cats would follow him because it was kind of a dumb idea anyway.
  • That was probably just becuase Lion-O didn't tell anyone what he was going off to do. I'm sure it's not the first time he's done somthing like that.
  • Lion-O is actually frequently snapped at: Look at the entry for What Were You Thinking? on the works page. But, on the other hand, there are several instances where, as insulated foreigners, (two of which are also teenagers like him) they have no basis for what's correct either, and could hardly complain, since they've got the same Proud Warrior Race inculcation he does. As for what someone pointed out above, Lion-O tends to wander off on his own without telling anyone...its how the first episode begins.
  • Tygra doesn't call Lion-O out because he's jealous. He thinks he was the one who was best suited to and deserved the throne, and leadership of the Thundercats. So he is spiteful and doesn't help Lion-O when he can, and lets the younger Cat's screw ups make him look bad.
    • Tygra calls out Lion-O several times. It's not Tygra actively trying to make Lion-O look bad, he does that by himself.
      • Are you kidding? Tygra has been bullying and belittling Lion-O since they were kids, He tells him that in all things except succession that he will always be second best and for as often as he bests Lion-O he's a little too smug about it. It's true that when Lion-O is in true danger Tygra always has his back, and he really didn't steal Cheetarah from him, but for the most part he treats his brother like crap.
        • Lion-O is the one who keeps losing and screwing up. I was replying that Tygra does call Lion-O out. If Tygra thought he knew better he said so, he never let Lion-O go ahead with something he didn't agree with in silence to make him look bad. He was always pretty vocal about his disagreements. Lion-O tended not to listen, whether it would have helped or made things worse.

• Is it just me or is every episode following the EXACT SAME format? The Thundercats arrive at a village full of quirky animals, said animals are facing a threat to their village, Lion-O tries to help and screws it up, they come up with a plan and defeat the threat. The end. It's getting kind of redundant....
  • This has happened what? Twice? Granted it is a little redundant since both episodes follow directly after one another but the writers seem to be following this formula because it will pay of in a season finale where the Thundercats eventually confront Mumm-Ra with a massive army of animals they united through their travels, at least that's the theory.

• How did Tygra sneak away to grab the Thunder Tank in "Into The Astral Plane?" The Cats were under guard and while the lizards aren't the best Mooks you'd think they'd notice him walking off like he does. Literally, he just walks off. Doesn't even use his whip to turn invisible since it was confiscated with the others' weapons. Is Tygra really that good or the lizards really that stupid, or did I just answer my own question?
  • I'll have to recheck, but I thought he ran during the battle. Thought to himself, Lion-o was wrong, we need the tank.
  • When the battle started, and everyone was distracted, we got a brief shot of Tygra ducking down and backing away, then running quickly into the forest. It was easy to blink and miss it.
  • No, I didn't miss it and I checked twice to make sure I was right: Tygra slips away right after Grune gives the order to kill the villagers. The lizards and Grune may have just been so keen on killing the elephants they didn't notice, but seriously, every one of them was looking in the same direction so Tygra can make an exit and a huge rescue? I wouldn't be surprised if Mumm-Ra kills all these guys before the season ends.

• In Between Brothers, Cheetara says she made her choice years ago....yet they only met once and they didn't interact years later until Thundera fell. Why didn't she just say she liked him instead of leading Lion-O on? And her reasoning of why she loved him was because he gave her a flower that helped her become a cleric and because he was nice to her? How does that add up?
  • In quite a few ways, actually. It's First Boy Wins in that Tygra was there before Lion-O came into the picture. (Word of God states that Tygra and Cheetara are the same age, with Lion-O about a year behind IIRC.) Second, we don't know if they interacted with each other or not all the years later. We do know that when Cheetara is disguised in one episode, Tygra still recognizes her and gives her a flirty sort of look, so he HAS kept that little flame for her going. Lion-O has a crush on her because he takes many of her actions towards him and likens them as interest, when it was apparently just the actions of a Knight to her King. (Trying to calm him when he pushes himself with the sword, kissing him on the cheek as a show of approval) She sympathizes with Tygra it seems, because of a conversation she and Lion-O have about Tygra being stuck under a younger brother's shadow. I mean if you want to circumvent all of that, we can just say that Tygra has been patient in waiting for her to respond to his feelings this whole time, and unfortunately for Lion-O, dating doesn't work for bloodlines, just royalty. Poor Lion-O.
  • First, if the flashbacks have proved anything, it's that we don't know who interacted with whom or when. Second, to lead on implies intent, which we don't know if Cheetara had. Third, Cheetara had no clan, no where to go, and no one to turn to. Her life probably wasn't the kindest, so there's that saying, "A little kindness goes a long way." and it did in that without Tygra's kindness she wouldn't have become a cleric. So overall it adds up to a life changing moment in her life and a lot of speculation.
  • Cheetara's one explicit mistake was kissing Lion-O's cheek. (She's not the first teenager to underestimate the impact of a physical gesture of affection) As for leading him on, she's his bodyguard, clergywoman, teacher and guidance councilor, which demands a certain level of rapport and support. It's the fact that she's an attractive age peer that causes Lion-O to misread her. But though Cheetara takes the blame for not articulating her feelings, its important to remember that this triangle could have been resolved if any of the parties concerned had just come out and said to the object of their affection "I like you, do you like me?" Lion-O and Tygra weren't helping themselves by treating Cheetra's affections like another contest.
  • Of course the entire point to the whole thing is that it's supposed to feel unfair. The only thing Lion-O ever won is the one thing he never really wanted (the throne). You're supposed to root for Lion-O and Cheetarah so the revelation hits you the same way it hits him.

• This confuses me - why is the kiss between Cheetara and Tygra a betrayal on Tygra's part? Cheetara initiated it, and honestly DID lead Lion-O on. She had a lot of physical and emotional closeness with Lion-O (who, based on the pilot, was pretty starved for approval/affection), while never paying any attention to Tygra until that last twist moment in episode 13. So why, then, is Tygra the traitor? Honestly, I hope they put SOME responsibility on Cheetara for all this.
  • The elephant dude only said that Lion-O would "feel" betrayed. It's pretty clear that Tygra isn't doing anything wrong by hooking up with Cheetara.
  • He said that "By evening bell tomorrow,you will know a betrayal from your brother like you have never known." And from Lion-O's perspective that's exactly what happened. His rivalry with his brother blinds him to both Cheetarah's and his own guilt in the whole misunderstanding. Cheetarah did lead him on, albeit unintentionally and Lion-O never really tried to clarify things even though there were signs she could go both ways between the brothers.
  • Anet actually speaks twice on the subject, and both are correct in a telling way. Lion-O "will know a betrayal" and after that "will feel betrayed." by Tygra. This is about Lion-O's perception. In actuality, since Tygra made his interest in Cheetara known and they both fully understood themselves to be in competition over her, Lion-O has no rational basis for considering Tygra's romantic victory a betrayal...unless he considered Cheetara an entitlement.
  • I don't think he considered it an entitlement. When you think about Lion-O and Tygra's relationship isn't a very healthy one. They both have anger for eachother because of something the other has. Tygra picks on Lion-O constantly because he's the king, something which has been sujested to have been forced on Lion-O. Meanwhile Lion-O strives to beat Tygra in something and be acknowledged in a good way. Lion-O and Tygra have been getting along noticibly better since the fall of Thundera. Lion-O made his feelings about Cheetara open to Tygra, probably hoping his older brother would let him win the girl, because when you think about it, Lion-O really had no way to know Tygra's feelings for her were more than "oh hey she's hot". So for Lion-O it really is a betrayal, and it probably wouldn't have fealt so if Tygra had just told Lion-O he had feelings for her for a few years now. Considring their relationship Lion-O would have still made it into a little compiticion (since that's what everything between them are) but Tygra and Cheetara getting together would have probably stung Lion-O a lot less if he knew they had already known eachother for years.
  • "New Alliances" seem to indicate that Lion-O places the blame squarely on Cheetara. Tygra didn't deceive him or was ever dishonest with his feelings and while it bugs him that it's yet one more thing Tygra won over him he feels far more betrayed by Cheetara, especially in the fight with Addicus and Kaynar. As soon as she had nothing left to hide her supposed undying loyalty to Lion-O evaporated.
    • Don't confuse loyalty for obedience. That's what Cheetara and Lion-O are doing now, and they've done it before, when expressing disbelief that Panthro wouldn't simply follow Lion-O's brash course. (Complete with Lion-O impuning Panthro's loyalty) Cheetara does show genuine Undying Loyalty, but she also falls in line when she shouldn't, both with Lion-O and Tygra.
• I've got one, why did they only send two generals out to look for the book of omens, yes they were both two of the best generals in the kingdom but they still should have brought some other soldiers with them right, if for nothing else then at least to function as redshirts.
  • Since we've seen that Panthro and Grune are tanks compared to many others in the army, why bog them down with weaker troops they'd have to babysit or watch die due to lower survival skills?
• Why isn't there any continuity on Lion-O's love for technology? After the Pilot Episode, we never see him gush over the Berbils' tech or badger Panthro about his tank or anything! It almost comes across as an Informed Attribute now.
  • While I'd like to see more reactions to tech, (from all of them...wouldn't Cheetara wanna talk to Jaga again?) seeing the damage it can do probably heavily tamped down Lion-O's sense of romance, if not awe. Also, if I remember correctly, Lion-O tried to talk shop with Panthro...but we know how he feels about his "baby" Having somebody else drive is gonna be torture.
  • Lion-O doesn't really like technology anymore, not after seeing it destroy his home overnight. It really doesn't help that nearly every other piece of technology he encounters is a dangerous weapon.
• A rather big headscratcher popped up for me in the second Trials of Lion-O episode. As far as Mumm-Ra knows, Lion-O is dead, and suddenly the remaining four Cats just sort of hand themselves to him on a silver platter. He incapacitates them all with his magic, they're all lying there helpless, Mumm-Ra is in the middle of his fortress (he even says inside his pyramid he's at his peak, power-wise) surrounded by Lizard soldiers plus his three generals...why, why, why, WHY did he not just KILL the Cats right there and then? Or at the very least have the generals do it, if the ritual was so important Mumm-Ra had to focus on that instead? But no, in order to avoid Mumm-Ra basically WINNING, he just has them thrown into the dungeons (and apparently never even thought to have them searched, since Panthro's still carrying around a proximity mine!). This just doesn't seem to gel with Mumm-Ra's previous appearances where he was much more Genre Savvy and outright ruthless. I know he was still pretty much a Card-Carrying Villain, but he seemed smarter about it. I know the generals later allude to Mumm-Ra wanting to torture the Cats, and the writers DID have to avoid a Bad Guy Wins scenario, but it just seems so clumsily handled and not in-character with Mumm-Ra's previous appearances.
  • I think I can answer that question reasonably. First off, as far as Mumm-Ra knew at the time. Tygra and the others are the only ones who know the location of the Book of Omens, the key to finding the others stones, after all you yourself said that Mumm-Ra is Genre Savvy. He probably figured on torturing the info out of them. Honestly his behavior seemed very practical and logical to me.
  • The series tends to rely (a little overmuch) on inferred timelapses between cuts (In "Native Son" Tygra has a "long talk" with Javan between scenes) so I think the proximity mine is meant to be acquired offscreen in an armory raid, which Panthro would know how to do, given his prior escape.
• Just re-watched "Trials Of Lion-O" part 1. Where were Cheetara, Panthro, and Tygra while Lion-O was getting kicked off a cliff? Addicus and Kaynar don't seem the type to leave unconscious enemies (Kaynar especially; he booted Lion-O even tbough Mumm-Ra needs him), so how did they transition from "restraining Tygra and Cheetara" to "threatening the Thunderkittens"?
  • there were some lizard mooks behind them, and they weren't cuffed yet (after Lion-o falls they are seen cuffed, likely an animation error) but i only saw two mooks on screen when Lion-o was surrounded vs four (later, after he fell they were even, counting Snarf) and they didn't even think to use their powers until after Lion-o's dead and Tygra's in charge. We don't see them hand over their weapons, so they had to have them hidden somewhere....i just call it plot convenience/bad writing.
• Why is Lion-O's life so hard? I've watched this show for a while and, quite frankly, it feels like he's being picked on and messed with at every turn. Hardly anyone's nice to him, practically no one's supporting him, not even his "family". He has father that never truly accepted him, a brother who always thought of himself as his superior, a general who didn't think he could lead (even though, technically, Panthro was the one let Thundera fall by allowing Grune to free Mumm-Ra) and now, a refugee who thinks he abandoned his people (though more likely, he was simply unaware that there refugees). Even the bad guys don't think he's worthy to be leader. He tries to be nice to other animals, but they always turn on him and he gets the blame for it. All of that pain and misery in his life, and we're supposed to feel sorry for Tygra and Pumyra?
  • His people hate him because they see him as a fool who believes in fairy tales and is weak for not wanting to fight the lizards. Panthro didn't trust him because he went ahead without thinking, but later saw him as a leader. The people expected the king to free them, but lost hope, it's reasonable they'd be disillusioned with him, even then some still believed in him. His kindness was repaid by the 2 lizards he helped in the first episode. I didn't think we were ever supposed to feel sorry for Tygra, we are supposed to see him as arrogant and someone who puts Lion-O down. I felt a little sorry for Pumyra, but was still annoyed at her constant belittling of Lion-O
  • Lion-O's hardships are difficult to watch sometimes, but they are ultimately meant to help him become the king Thundera needs.
    • "Birth of the Blades" shows that he's not even as hated by his people as everyone thinks.
• In "Berbils" why were Wilykat and Wilykit so scared by Panthro threatening them? It was cute/funny and all, but they're kids and he's an adult. What could he have possibly done to them if they didn't stop teasing him?
  • It's because Panthro is a Scary Black Man.