< Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann/Headscratchers


  • About Rossiu's plan to keep Simon from running off in Gurren Lagann. Doesn't he realize that Simon could simply detach in Lagann and fly off? Before it gets said, I doubt that Kinon really would have blown herself up, and I doubt Rossiu would have let her anyways. He's too efficient to waste effective personnel like that.
    • He probably did know that. He also knew that Simon wouldn't abandon people and probably set up the explosives to reassure the public. Kinon went with him as Gurren's pilot so Simon wouldn't get himself killed on purpose. People really don't give Rossiu enough credit.
      • It's not about hating Rossiu. I have real respect for him as the Only Sane Man. I just can't get why he wouldn't have a contingency for that, when it was indeed a possibility that Simon would do so. Rossiu just doesn't strike me as the type who would rely on others' motives and emotions. He'd have a plan for every single possibility.
      • Yeah, he would. If he needed one. Need I remind you that Rossiu still trusted Simon to some degree? He hated having to throw him in jail and take over. He said the his sentence would be execution but I doubt that he would have gone through with it even if the moon wasn't about to fall. He knew that Simon wouldn't abandon everyone before the fight and after it he and Gurren Lagann were too beat up to do anything. Even if GL wasn't then were would Simon go? If I recall correctly, he still hadn't given up on saving Nia and if she appeared in Kamina City before hand then the chances were quite good that she would again.
  • So...how come we never see any other high-ranking beastmen with Gunmen like Viral? He has the only unique Gunmen among an army of mooks (excluding the Generals, who are presumably the highest ranking beastmen of them all). You'd think if a human stealing a Gunmen is enough to send one high-ranking soldier after them, a whole bunch of humans doing it and attacking a battleship is enough to send them all! Think about it, how much more awesome would the already awesome Episode 7 be if Viral, instead of calling out the same mooks recycled yet again, called out a whole team of Gunmen as strong as Enki, only to be curb-stomped by the timely arrival of Kittan and his crew? It never made sense to this troper on her first watch-through. Not even the other Generals have beastmen of Viral's rank in their armies!
    • Conservation of Detail. Why bother creating original desings that would lead the audiance to think that they are important just to blow them up three seconds later? This show already had a lot of fully fleshed out characters (even if most of them are forgettable for not being overly awesome). Why would they add more? Also, it's not the only show to do this.
    • As for in story, this troper would suggest that, after Viral's defeat, other Generals amy have hesitated to give possibly-expensive custom Gunmen to underlings. Other than that, it's possible that Thympilph may be the only one to have a high-ranked underling with a custom. Certainly it's true that Viral doesn't seem to be replacing anyone when he fights under Adiane, nor when he fights under Cytomandra.
    • I assumed that Kittan and everyone stole their Gunmen from Viral's peer's just like Kamina did.
  • How is Kamina so tan after being underground basically his whole life?
    • Because he's Kamina. Are you going to argue he can't?
    • Excellent point.
    • Maybe Kamina is naturally like that? Or had a job that required him to stay under more lighting?
    • Gainax logic could say he's tan because he's been on the surface. Even if that was years ago.
  • Why did the Infinity Big Bang Storm clearly hit the Tengen Toppa, but is shown a few seconds later to be headed towards them? It's clear they're hit, what with the Dai-Gurren falling back and recoiling in pain, along with the explosion of galaxies that erupt from it when it's hit! Why is it not only fine in the next scene, but hasn' been hit yet?
    • ...? They were hit. Then Lordgenome bounced out and pushed it away.
  • Why doesn't Michael Bay know about this yet?
    • Because he melted a supercomputer trying to render Devastator. Trying to get Gurren Lagann scale and Dai-Gurren scale stuff is simply beyond current tech levels (anything beyond that, and you get scenes almost entirely CGI, which is easier than a CGI-live mix). Wait for computers to improve before expecting anything out of him.
    • Also, because I don't think we're ready for Gunmen that speak jive, urinate, hump, or have enemy scrotum to be beneath.
    • whilst this troper agrees some of the dumber aspects of Bay are best left away from this series,and feels at this point it's safe to assume live action anime adaptations can't get any better than Dragonball Evolution,the tech is definitely there.if you doubt it,catch Sucker Punch and notice how almost identical to Lagann their mech is.
    • Because it would probably require mechs the size of the goddamn moon to fully capture such manly awesomeness for the finale.
  • I know that any physics question will lead to the answer "spiral energy" but I'm still wondering about something. How is it that Yoko's gun is able to fire arrows? It's powered by electricity (not sure how you could fling an arrow with that) and an arrow isn't going to fit in the barrel properly so it wouldn't fly straight. I know it's really unimportant in the scheme of things, but it... just bugs me.
    • Metal arrows and a magnetic accelerator.
    • Yoko's rifle has a barrel a lot wider than a real one (it looks at least a half inch wide), because it's not designed to fire bullets using a chemical propellant, it's designed to fire whatever the hell she puts in their using electricity/magnetism. As for how it can fire things that are clearly not magnetic, I'm just going to have to chalk it up to Lost Technology of diamagnetism.
    • Maybe there are grooves on the inside of the barrel and it just widens towards the end?
    • Ah, screw this. It's a Spiral Energy Rifle, it can do whatever the hell Yoko wants it to do. This also explains why sometimes it harms Gunmen and others it doesn't.
  • The beach episode bugged the hell out of me because of how every single character ignored Yoko over Nia. I don't get it, a little girl with absolutely no body is fawned and lusted after over Yoko simply because Yoko wore a rather conservative swimsuit? They even say that she has nothing going for her when it's completely obvious what she does have going for her. I know, rule of funny, but it still just bugs me.
    • They're ogling Nia simply because it's something they haven't seen before. On the other hand, the sight of Yoko in a skimpy two-piece doesn't exactly have any rarity value. Hell, it's even noted that her beach wear actually shows less skin than her regular outfit.
      • Lolicons.
      • Similarly to lolicons, Japan. Name one recent show that has our characters drooling over big boobs when there's a flat-chested young girl running around instead. It's increasingly disturbing and one thing that bugs this troper in general about Japan.
        • Japanese women aren't that well-endowed compared to western women.
        • And the standard of beauty is not so obsessed with bust size. Seriously, the Western obsession with giant boobs is just plain weird. Values Dissonance, yay!
          • If that's the case, why are there so many busty women in anime?
            • Just because the Japanese don't like big boobies as much doesn't mean they don't like them at all.
            • And have you seen some Japanese pornstars? Seriously, google Shoko Goto or Hitomi Tanaka...
              • Ooookaaaaay... so you're saying that if there are busty Japanese women, the majority are going to be busty? Western women are way bustier than Japanese women. There is more fat in the diet, see, so the boobs are on average, larger.
              • I think we may have gotten a tad off topic. It's a combination of value dissonance and lolicon being a Japanese thing. Moe (don't know how to put the accent mark on the "e") came to be for a reason.
      • Also, Nia is "cute" and "new", while Yoko is so "first episodes' news" and, if memory serves me right, quite agressive to people showing affection to her. If that doesn't do it for you, then all I have to say is this: She's Kamina's hoe, you sure you wanna go after the girl belonging to the only man who could seriously get out of the screen and punch the telespectator in the face??
        • This bugged Rossiu too in the manga adaptation. He says in one of the 4koma: "Does this mean..... that in this day and age, flat-chested lolitas tend to be more universally popular among the consumers?"
    • I thought it them fawning over her being impossibly cute than a lolita.
  • Am I honestly the only one bugged by some of the character interactions that take place early in the post-timeskip episodes? Seriously, some of the ways that these characters behave around each other makes it feel less like they’ve been working together, striving to build a stable new society for seven years and more like they were all stuck into plot-induced, isolated incubation chambers, then plopped into the shiny new setting with similarly plot-convenient roles to play.
    • A lot changes in, what... seven years?
      • But that's exactly the point. Either the characters haven't changed or if they have, almost all of the ways in which the characters and their relationships are different feel unnatural and forced (Simon and Rossiu are probably the worst offenders in this respect). Seven years IS a long time for people to get to know each other, and I have a difficult time buying into the idea that the Gurren Dan has been governing Kamina City with relative peace and stability without becoming a more mature, tight-nit, cohesive group of people whose interaction has grown naturally and realistically. But we don't get that, with a few exceptions, instead we get what amount to basically about half of the main cast virtually unchanged, while the rest have been shoddily retooled with no consideration given to realism in their Character Development, which ultimately makes the way they interact with the rest of the cast that much more questionable.
      • I think their problem is more that they don't know how to be politicians, and aren't comfortable in the role. When outside the role, it's clear that they are, at least somewhat, more comfortable with each other. Also, nobody said they were a democracy, they just happen to be the group with both the biggest stick and the most popular support.
      • Funny how it's supposed to be a democracy and yet Rossiu always seemed to be telling everyone what to do and how to do it, even prior to the initial Anti-Spiral attack.
      • I think that was the point, when Simon makes a big deal to Viral about how they have a court-system to fairly try criminals, and yet when Simon himself is put in the same court the Judge's girlfriend is the sole jury member and everybody makes a big stink about how obviously unfair that was.
          • The whole thing still bugs me regardless. It just feels unrealistic, and no do not try to retort that realism doesn't matter because Gurren Lagann doesn't care about the laws of physics. Subverting the laws of physics for the sake of a Crowning Moment of Awesome is irrelevant with regards character interaction and world building.
            • Actually, it wasn't Simon and Rossiu working together to create a new work. It was Rossiu working to create a new world by himself with Simon as merely an icon to represent freedom. Simon was never a man of authority and the only reason he stayed in Kamina City was for Nia. It's a pretty logical progression to the storytelling. People grow apart, Simon's interactions with Rossiu weren't abundant as the only person he had a close relationship with was Nia. I have no idea of what kind of "unnatural and forced" interactions are you talking about. Gimmy and Darry themselves remark that the Gang was too immersed in their own glory and larger-than-life ideals to truly "grow-up and throw away their past" like Rossiu did. It seems to me like you're trying to force the characters into a mold they were never meant to fit. Simon was always shy, never very social and even after growing up he was more of a down-to-earth character that only really related to Nia. Expecting him to become a close buddy with the other characters would have been unbelievable.
              • If this troper remembers correctly, the whole "new vs. old" thing was an actual theme that was brought up on several occasions. When Rossiu arrests Simon, he even remarks that Simon hasn't changed a bit, and that he'll never understand. Kittan also remarks how Kinon's personality has completely changed. As for the above-mentioned point about Team Dai-Gurren being unable to govern anything, it's pretty obvious that they aren't doing jack. Rossiu's really the one pulling the strings.
              • For me it just ultimately boils down to the length of the timeskip. Seven years is a long time for a group of characters to spend away from the eyes of the audience and it just doesn't feel like the writing treats some of the characters like they've been living their lives realistically, but rather, like their personalities were snap-shotted from episode 15 and then put on hold for seven years. Rossiu is a can of worms I won't get into, but to better illustrate my point, I'll offer up a contrasting example. In the seven years between episodes 15 and 17, Dayakka got married and had a kid, and his personality changed appropriately. Kittan, on the other hand, doesn't seem like he's changed a lick since the day Teppelin fell. I know it's weird and pretty subjective, but it boils down to that: I think the timeskip is too long and it does weird things to the way the characters come off.
              • You can't expect someone like Kittan to change no matter how much time passes. He himself basically admits he's ill-suited for the job they gave him. There are basically two camps among the Gurren-dan post time skip: People like Rossiu, Yoko, and Dayakka who changed in some way in the seven years, and people like Kittan, Simon, Nia, and Viral who really didn't change all that much. In fact, although it's not really easy to see between the mind blowing battles, there is the overarching theme of "growing up" present in the post-time skip world. The problem is it's a lot more subtle (and in Simon's case with refusing to even try to bring back Nia at the end, mindblowingly misguided...personally if I heard someone say to let the girl who went poof stay poofed because it was time to move on and leave it to the next generation, I'd sock him in the face and ask "What about YOUR next generation? You just saved the Goddamn universe, be a little selfish just this once!") in that it addresses a problem with 20-somethings moving forward in life. Most of the protagonists have this stagnation in their lives as a character flaw. This growth, however, is incredibly hard to portray in any form of media, since almost everyone is still going through it in their own lives. It's like a 10 year old writing about puberty.
                  • You have just won the internet. The only major logic hole in Gurren Lagann that cannot be explained through spiral power or its awesome abilities is Simon's decision to let Nia stay dead, for some half explained reason. "What about YOUR next generation? You just saved the Goddamn universe, be a little selfish just this once!" indeed.
                    • If Simon did bring her back, who would it be for? For her sake, or his own? I've recently come to realized that that I, and I suspect most people who defend the ending, have been looking at it from the wrong perspective. All my arguments up to this point have been focused on the fact that bringing Nia back would set mankind down the path of the Spiral Nemesis, but there's something much more important that reviving Nia would destroy: Nia herself. Consider, for a moment, what almost everyone in the story saw her as: her own father had her for the sake of his own amusement, the Anti-Spirals' used her as a tool, and even most of the Gurren Gang saw rescuing her as their goal for its own sake. Throughout her life, for one reason or another, selfish or not, she was always merely an object, whether to be used or fought for. But when she died, when she accepted that fate, of her own will, in order to meet to her own ideals, that all changed. It is unquestionably tragic, but in the end, Simon accepting Nia's decision isn't just him once more shouldering the universe's own moral problems: it's him accepting Nia's sole selfish request.
                      • Also, bringing Nia, and anyone else, back to life would have been a clear abuse of spiral power, which Simon basically told Anti-Spiral he wouldn't do since it causes that whole death of the universe thing.
                      • Bullshit! They abuse spiral power to win, and they do it on levels that render a single person, a planet full of people, hell, a GALAXY full of people irrelevant. By the end of Lagann-hen, they've abused it so much that bringing back everyone all the way from Lordgenome's time would have been largely irrelevant. All of this to take down the the Anti-Spiral, which apparently requires building mechs large enough that galaxies are motes of dust. Even supposing that you bring back everyone who died merely in the series and movie (which ranges from a dozen or so to a mere three), and they all turned out to be crazy excellent at using Spiral power (only Kittan actually demonstrates this before the Tengen Toppa is generated, not even Kamina), that's only a few more galaxies to deal with (since each person becomes a galaxy during Spiral Nemesis). Certainly, this risk is relatively low, given how many god damn people there are on Earth alone (at least a million, assuming no one died after we hit this mark), and realistically, given there is no reason to fight, there is no real reason to use spiral power except for this exact purpose! Oh, and lucky us, only Simon can actually use it on that scale! It's bullshit to say that "Oh, we can't bring back my brother, my love, and my friends because it'd be abuse" when you've already DESTROYED AN ENTIRE DIMENSION USING IT.
      • That's the whole point. they realized the destructive power of spiral energy so they limited their use of it. the abuse eariler was nessecary. but, now that the threat is gone, they can limit the use of spiral energy to prevent the destruction of any dimensions
      • I think that lot of people are missing the point of the series' messages and themes. If they had tried to bring Nia back to life then they would started down the path of the Anti-Spirals. There's a reason that the Anti-Spirals are largely represented by circles. They want to keep things going, no matter what. What is the fundamental difference between a circle and a spiral? A spiral ends.
      • Nia would end eventually. She'd die. Would it be so bad to just keep her going until she dies a normal, justified death?
  • What was up with the sudden relationship between Kittan and Yoko? They barely talk to each other when they were young, don't see each other for seven years, she appears again and Kittan thinks she's married with kids and yet out of nowhere one of them falls in love with the other and he kisses her. Why would he kiss her first of all, and second why kiss her especially thinking that she had kids?
    • In case you haven't noticed, Kittan and Kamina are a lot alike - that's why they don't get along. It stands to reason that Kittan would be attracted to the same sort of person as Kamina. He didn't go after her at first because they were occupied with defeating Lord genome, and when she came back after the timeskip they were focused on the Anti-Spiral. He probably knew he was going to die in that final attack, so decided to snatch his last chance for a kiss.
    • Also, it's pretty obvious from fairly early that he had a thing for her, but just didn't think he had a chance with her and so didn't say anything until then.
    • Kittan had a pretty major superiority[1] complex about Kamina, going back almost to the time they met. He didn't go after Yoko before because he didn't think he could compete with Kamina, and especially not with Kamina's memory - at least, not until he'd resolved to go out with an even bigger bang.
    • As far as the kiss goes, as said, Kittan even admits it's more a selfish move on his part than anything else - he steals a kiss from the woman he's loved but unable to have for a good seven years before going into a mission that he knew was pretty much suicidal.
  • How is it that Kamina knew about combining when they tried it for the first time? (This may actually be an idiotic question - it's been awhile and I also often miss things when I'm watching it subbed (and I didn't catch anything explaining it in the dub, either).
    • He didn't. He just got the idea that if two Gunmen were individually awesome, one combined Gunmen would be even MORE awesome. He's an Idiot Hero, remember? It could just as easily not have worked, but he decided that that's the way it SHOULD work - and luckily for him and Simon, it did.
      • Just felt that this little part from the manga should be referenced here. An excellent humorous subversion of Kamina's first combine. It's just a joke, so it doesn't exactly happen, but still, it is funny enough to get mentioned here.
      • Hilariously put into video form here. Warning. Mild spoilers.
        • Wow...that just seems like a Funny Anurism Moment, big time.
  • How is it that Yoko is 14? Seriously.
    • I never really bothered to notice her age, I thought she was 18 years old. I mean no one THAT young can have that much baggage.
      • Speak for yourself. I had a classmate in middle school with Yoko's figure.
        • Yeah, me too. To add she was japanese and, according to her, yes they were real (they looked real enough to me).
    • I'm incredulous and somewhat skeptical myself, but my best guess is that her figure's a parody of Asuka's. This does mean that those guys complaining about her swimwear in episode 12 are drooling over a 14-year-old girl. (And Nia's also supposed to be 14.) Then there's the Distant Finale, which seems to suggest that people suddenly age ten effective years upon turning 40.
    • Quite frankly, Yoko's figure is completely within the normal range for an anime character, even one who is supposed to be 14.
    • Truth in Television: This troper, when he was 18 asked out a girl that was 14, but because of her attitude, her looks and her ginormous breasts, assumed, just like anyone else that didn't know her, that she was 21.
    • A year may have more than 365 days on that planet (or future earth, or whatever).
    • This troper always assumed that it had something to do with the underground villages having longer years, since they can't see the Sun and all.
    • This troper always wondered how you can even pretend to have a calendar system when the initial tenants of all of them are formed around stars, the sun and other heavenly bodies. He therefore makes the argument that neither Simon, Kamina nor anyone who ever lived underground for most of their lives could ever know their actual ages. But still Simon is 14 and Yoko is 14? AND KAMINA IS 16?! WHAT THE HELL, GAINAX? Simon actually LOOKS 14. Kamina is 18 at the youngest. Yoko being 17 I could accept maybe... also, wouldn't this make Kittan like 15? Gaaah, screw it. Ages do not work well in Gurren Lagann.
      • Simon is said to be unusually stunted in growth, for some reason or other.
      • If, they were unable to observe astronomical objects they obviously based it around something else. For instance, they could use when the lights are turned off for the basis of "days".
    • This troper, when 20, was interested in a girl, assumed be 18+ by her large beasts and mature body shape, only to back down FAST when finding out she only 15. It's far from impossible.
    • Yoko's age isn't set in stone. She's around Simon's age, which could be anywhere from 12 to 16. Then, there's also the possible difference in time between the years underground and above ground, so Yoko could be older than 16 or younger than 12 (highly unlikely that she's under the age of 12).
  • Word of God is that the way years are counted underground doesn't match up to actual solar years, given that they don't even know the sun exists.
    • Except Yoko's village did, and has, apparently for quite some time.
      • They kept useing the "years" they used before going to the surface. Not hard to believe at all.
  • Where does the dirt go when it's drilled through?
    • It's being drilled out of space time.
    • It's vaporized and converted into concentrated awesome. It is then stored in either Simon's drill-necklace or Kamina's glasses where it can be called upon later (like when one needs to produce, for example, a galaxy sized giant robot out of thin air to defeat the Big Bad). Admit it, it makes perfect sense.
    • You're asking for this by asking a fairly mundane physics question in a show where Mechs larger than galaxies exist, anything that could conceivably have a drill has one, THINGS THAT COULDN'T CONCIEVABLY HAVE ONE STILL DO, and our heroes defeat their enemies through their SHEER AWESOME.
    • For episodes past 1, consult the above answers. For episode 1, it's probably just compressing the dirt into the tunnel's wall - after all, it never collapses and suffocates the diggers.
      • Digging doesn't work that way. Remember Holes? Subsurface soil is pretty tightly packed, and removing it usually makes it take up much more space. (Some of the non-simplified shots of digging, like when Simon digs out Lagann, show the dirt flying around too.) And this isn't taking account where the air to fill the space comes from.
      • Since Lord genome wanted humans to survive underground, he may have supplied them with spiral drills when he first imprisoned them there.
    • If Spiral Energy can create matter, who's to say it can't destroy it too?
  • If Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann is the size of a galaxy, why isn't Chouginga GL toe-high to an ant by comparison? Not to mention the Anti-Spiral planet?
    • Because Gainax has no sense of scale.
    • Another valid question is, "How does one assemble a galaxy-sized mecha from the equivalent mass of the moon? Though given the very unserious nature of the show one could handwave it as TTGL being an "energy entity".
      • It has been explicitly stated that Spiral power can actually create matter, rather than convert it from one form to another - that's the cause of the Spiral Nemesis.
    • For a SERIOUS answer, it's NOT the size of galaxies. They're fighting in a sort of non-space area. Their ENERGY signatures are beyond that of galaxies, but there's no real size or space component to what they're doing-it's just a projection of their opposing wills upon the sub-space.
      • Been Jossed by Word of God. Yes, they really are the size of galaxies. I chalk it up to physics being extremely mutable in a crack between dimensions. Also Spiral Power. Spiral Power is the explanation for everything.
      • Hell Energy signatures "larger than galaxies" breaks physics as much as just being larger than galaxies anyways. As energy = mass, so they would have to have more mass than a galaxy which if they weren't on a ridiculously massive scale would create a black hole from sheer density.
        • Physics? Physics was crying in the corner by the end of the first episode. By the finale it had hung itself with its own bootlaces.
          • By the end? Most likely its rotten corpse was locked up in a, literally, bloody room with multiple ways of suicide, not discluding cyanide pills, a noose made out of chains, etc., etc.
            • Nah. Physics is still there, it's just gone passive-aggressive from lack of attention. "Fine, create galaxy-sized mecha and hurl around big bangs. All that extra mass will swallow the universe eventually." Physics is the Spiral Nemesis. Fortunately, no-one awesome listens to it.
              • It has been changed so that one can make Spiral Energy into matter and back at will. It's fine, really. Just changed a little.
    • For scale comparison, the Grand Zamboa is wearing the Anti-Spiral homeworld in its headdress. Chouginga GL is massively dwarfed in comparison, but the objects they're standing on aren't really the same as galaxies from this universe. What bugs me is: why does the Anti-Spirals' artificial universe have spiral-galaxy-like objects in it at all?
      • Because it reminds them of their original home.
      • Easy access. It's stated that the Anti-Spirals suppress all the evolution that they can, and what better way to keep whole galaxies under control than to drag them into your own space so you can keep an eye on them?
    • That's really not it, the massive amount of power that TTGL generates upon transforming created the Super Spiral Space. The Anti-Spiral King just enters the SSS to fight them on their grounds.
  • When Boota cuts off his own ass to feed Simon and friends, why doesn't he bleed to death, and how the hell does it grow back? He does it LONG before he develops manliness superpowers.
    • Apparently, he'd been a mainstay of Spiral energy the whole time. If it says "Spiral", just... don't question it.
    • Or it could just be a quirk of pig-mole biology.
    • Obviously, Boota is the Holy Spirit. Think about it—he's a fountain of massive power. He DOESN'T AGE. And he's a cute little critter. (Well, I think doves are cute). So slicing off a God's ass is not going to be lasting problem. Crucifying one certainly wasn't.
    • It was episode 4. There's your answer.
    • Aside from this being episode 4 and all, actual lizards can sever their tail at will and grow a new one, so why shouldn't Boota be able to do something like that?
      • Well, first, Boota is a mole-pig, no lizard in there. Second, it wasn't just the tail, it was EVERYTHING REAR OF HIS HIND LEGS. You could see a red circle with a white hole in it representing his innards and spine, like someone had taken a knife to the rear eighth of his body.
        • These are far-future creatures we're talking about. He's already a combination of mole and pig. What's to say there might not be some sort of regenerative power in there? Also, Spiral Power.
          • Of course, it could be that Boota's rear is mostly fat and cartilage, but then again, WHY are we arguing over a abstractly cartoonish scene? I'm pretty sure that scene was done for laughs, and to parody the trope of self sacrifice in anime, and having pets who are loyal enough to be emergency food sources.
          • We don't really talk about when Boota did that...
            • It wasn't a Non Sequitur Scene. Kamina ends up wanting more at the end of the fourth episode and the start of the fifth.
              • The fifth episode also has a blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot of Boota's rump half-recovered. If we assume that pigmoles were genetically engineered, it makes sense: allowing your livestock to regrow parts you've cut off decreases the energy required for a steak.
  • Did anybody else find it odd that Boota essentially became a Beastman for ten minutes in episode 26 and then went back to being a mole-pig? Granted it was probably just to show him looking like the aide in the teaser in the first episode and make people even more anxious for the finale.
    • It was his dream in the Lotus Eater Machine to become human-like. Didn't you catch him joining with the others in the big spiral... drill... mass... thing? His dream just happened to stay on the ship, face-to-face with the Anti-Spiral King, so it was a great place to put exposition.
    • I'm more confused about how he doesn't grow or age in the slightest over the course of 27 years.
      • I'm more concerned about why Leeron doesn't grow or age in the slightest over the course of 27 years. The characters who started as teenagers are in their forties now...
        • The Boota thing, I've heard, was mainly out of Boota's subconscious desire to fight alongside Simon and co. as more than just a molepig—he wanted to be more helpful to his team and willed himself into beastman-mode. That, and the Anti-Spiral was influencing their thoughts at the time. As for Leeron, well... he's fabulous. I'm sure he'd have invented some kind of technology to keep himself beautiful for life.
          • I thought Leeron looked like he had aged a little at the end. He probably just hides it really well with make-up.
            • This is one of the reasons this troper calls discontinuity on the Distant Finale. Loads of plot holes, in addition to the wholly unnecessary (and contrary to the theme of the entire series) death of Nia and Simon's essentially being Put on a Bus.
        • Leeron is simply the Eternal Queer. He will forever be fabulous.
        • It is stated somewhere, from the studio, that Leeron uses a lot of plastic surgery after the Time Skip. It may just be a justifiable excuse, but it does make sense.
    • He wasn't a beastman, just a beast evolved into a sort of man. The definitive quality of beastmen is sterility; they're genetically engineered to be incapable of breeding. Boota, in contrast, is the Wilt Chamberlain of molepigs.
    • Didn't they say something about being able to manifest Spiral Energy as physical mass in Anti-Spiral Space? (or maybe more along the lines of "Spiral Energy as whatever the hell you want in Anti-Spiral Space." They were already manifesting Spiral Energy as drills by the first episode) Hence Boota the Spiral Knight, Genome getting his body back after being a disembodied head, and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann itself. But then this begs the question of whether "Team Dai-Gurren vs. The Universe" at the start of episode 1 takes place in their universe or Anti-Spiral dimension because Spiral Knight Boota was there too.
    • I think that the answer is that Boota never actually became humanoid at all. He evolved to the point where he was intelligent enough to be trapped in the Labyrinth, at which point he froze and had a dream of punching the Anti-Spiral King into oblivion. (Dream? Vision? Parallel...? You know, whatever the hell you call the Lotus Eater Machine effect they had going on there.)
    • He was using Spiral Energy to turn into a humaniod just like how Gurren Lagann's damage is fixed in battle yet afterword both return to normal.
  • How did they paint the Dai-Gurren red? It was still grey when Lagann took it over, and was red the next day. Did they stay up all night painting, or did it have a "color" knob in the cockpit somewhere?
    • The same way the helmet changes colors in episode 3?
      • That was instant, attributable to Lagann's regeneration and modification of assimilated parts. The Dai-Gurren changed between episodes, and was unchanged by Lagann's takeover. It DOES however, bring up the issue of where the helmet goes when the Gurren and the Lagann are separate...
        • Hammerspace.
        • Spiral Energy
        • Actually, IIRC, the helmet is stored in a compartment behind the "back plate" of Gurren (the same plate that has those 4 drills that are used to carry the travelling compartment and attach one of the beastman planes to so that it can fly) and is launched out as part of the transformation sequence in a similar manner to R2-D2's lightsaber launcher.
    • Clearly, Reite was Genre Savvy enough to know that painting Dai-Gurren red would make it run three times faster, and therefore made doing so top priority. As for the time, Kinon actually mentioned that it's been a week since they hijacked the thing in episode 9, so that would give them some opportunity to paint it.
  • I know this is more or less a moot point in any series involving mecha and space, but how the hell did the Ganmen pilots not choke and die when they were in space before they got the Space Ganmen?
    • Spiral energy.
    • IIRC It's mentioned in one of the ending episodes. Ganmen were always designed for space combat. The "Space Ganmen" just made them bigger and stronger.
      • And yet they were shown not to be waterproof earlier in the series?
        • The novels explain this, saying that they weren't waterproof due to lack of upkeep. After they had been repaired and maintained by the Dai Gurren, they were fit to use in space again.
        • Not sure about the details of this, but compressive strength and tensile strength are two different things. Maybe the Ganmen are designed primarily for greater internal pressure.
          • Re-watching the episode where they fought underwater says Spiral energy fixes them up to make them airtight. So yeah, first person was right.
          • Actually, the fourth person was closer. Only Gurren-Lagann was fixed up to be airtight by spiral power. The rest had trouble operating in water. There's a large difference between something being space-capable (where the pressure is internal - all that air inside, pushing hard to get out) and water-capable (where the pressure is external - all that water outside trying to get in, and water can exert a lot more pressure than air. Something like 30 meters of water exerts the same pressure as our entire atmosphere). The Ganmen were explicitly said to have been designed for space battle.
        • Best explained with this Futurama quote for when the Planet Express ship gets dragged far below the ocean:

Professor Farnsworth: My God, that's over 500 atmospheres of pressure!
Fry: Well how many can the ship take?
Professor Farnsworth: Well it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one.

          • It could also be explained by the assumption that the other humans didn't have access to anywhere near the same level of Spiral Energy that Gurren-Lagann did. I can't remember if it was ever specifically shown/stated that they were using Spiral Energy that early in the series... and even if they were, it seemed to be just enough to power the mechs. It could be that nobody was capable of that sort of thing without whatever weird advantages that Lagann and the Core Drill (which seems to function as some sort of Spiral-focusing device) impart. After all, it wasn't until KING KITTAN GIGA DRILL BREAKER! that we saw anyone other than Lord genome, Arc-Gurren (for the shields; presumably powered by the combined Spiral emissions of all aboard) and Gurren-Lagann itself using enough Spiral Energy to do anything other than move.
  • Anybody have any idea what kind of animal Viral is supposed to be a hybrid of?
    • Wolf (hands and eyes) and Shark (teeth) according to Word of God.
    • Actually that's cat and shark. Word of God also added that if you pull out his teeth, they'll grow back. In case you wanted to know, I guess.
    • I figured he was their attempt at making a Cat Boy. Just look at his wife for proof.
      • Until that episode I was thinking monkey.
  • When the Chouginga Gurren Lagann is doing the gigantic laser-drill deal to counter the Anti-Spiral's screwing around with probability, we see a quick zoom-out from Simon in the Lagann's cockpit to the Gurren Lagann and then the Arc Gurren Lagann both in some sort of energy-axis-system somewhere in the middle of each larger robo. Doesn't that completely defy the placement of GL in the AGL in both its first appearance and the final episode in the AGL's mouth? As well as the AGL's placement in the CGL's mouth in the final episode (or maybe the contradiction there is the other way around)? Still, it did look cool.
    • Okay, formation one is when the AGL is fighting - then it has to be piloted by GL (in the mouth). Formation two is when CGL is doing its extra-long transformation, in which there's another formation designed for making the Spiral-power-collection process as efficient as possible - this is when GL and AGL are fixed in place. The final episode had TTGL running off the most ridiculous amounts of Spiral power EVER, and I suspect that all the components of the Matrioska Mecha were running off that one inferno, which was why they were rearranged into the less efficient formation.
      • Right, thanks — I just re-watched Episode 24, so now I get it.
    • On the same note, why does Arc Gurren Lagann have to be involved at all? In its first appearance, it's shown AGL can be piloted by Gimmy and Darry; and since all CGL needs is spiral energy, which is coming from Simon anyway, why couldn't Gurren Lagann alone charge the ship? Perhaps if Arc Gurren Lagann were fighting, half the Dai-Gurren Brigade wouldn't have died.
      • Presumably because Gurren Lagann couldn't sustain drills large enough to match up with the "receivers." And bear in mind that Gimmy and Darry likely couldn't have pulled off the kind of feats of Spiral Power that would have been needed to take on so many enemies at once - Arc Gurren Lagann is capable of many things, but being in multiple places at once is not on its resume.
        • It's proven in Parallel Works 8 that a Space Ganman is needed to allow a normal Ganman to work with Chouginga Gurren Lagann (or Cathedral Terra, as the case may be in the aforementioned video).
  • If Beastmen have no Spiral energy, why does the Gurren respond to it?
    • Gurren itself was designed as a beastman ganmen, so Viral can control it, it's Lagann that runs on spiral energy, and most often Simon is enough to power it (On the one occasion that wasn't enough, Boota jumps into Gurren's cockpit to contribute).
      • I don't like this explanation. It doesn't really satisfy, nor does it explain how the Ganmen could have been developed to fight anti-spirals, but are operational when the beastmen use it. Here's an idea: The Ganmen were made to fight he anti-spirals like Lord genome said,but when the beastmen use them they can't harness the spiral energy powers, and operate them through purely mechanical means. but when the humans start taking them, they activate the spiral power and use them to their full potential. This has the nice advantage of explaining why all the trained beastmen are so easily defeated by humans who got their Ganmen a short time before.
      • Um...yes, this is basically stated by Word of God.
      • This is addressed, actually. Ganmen can be powered by Spiral Energy (I assume Genome retroengineered them from his own mecha, which was created to kill Anti-Spirals indeed, after landing on Earth) but they do have a electric engine as well. This is what the beastmen use. This is also, as you say, why Ganmen are much more powerful when piloted by humans than beastmen.
      • Aren't the Ganmen powered by Solar Cells(I'm sure this is Word of God )? This would explain why Beastmen don't go out at night, though it does not explain how they sometimes operate in low light conditions
        • This is Word of God, yes. Ganmen run on solar power when used by Beastmen. That's why the hot spring Ganmen in ep 6 being able to move at night due to geothermal power is such a big deal.
      • Viral is a special case - I think that somewhere they {lampshaded} that he SHOULDN'T be able to generate Spiral Energy, but IIRC Word of God says that Viral somehow does (Sprial Energy can be more 'drive to improve oneself' than 'ability to mutate' at times, anyway.) How the OTHER beastmen manage, on the other hand...
      • Terapin can be seen falling to Earth again. I think, following the Eva parallels of the series, it can be described that the Beastmen are the "Dummy Plugs". Ganmen are designed to be used by spirals, and thus are far more powerful when powered by spirals. Whence the solar cells mentioned above. It provides just enough power to operate the machine and Beastmen are capable of the "basic" functions. Note that the questionable if Beastman, Gaume (see WMG), does a spiral like ability in episode 14.
      • Or, an even more simple explanation: Lord genome was powering all the ganmen by himself. This explains why they suddenly deactivated when he was defeated. The fact that this would mean he had a downright UNHOLY amount of spiral energy but still got defeated by Simon can be attributed to the same theory: because he was powering all the ganmen he didn't have all his energy at his disposal, and disabeling the other ganmen would leave him to be pretty much zerg rushed by the resistance, making a three-on-seven (Rossiu, Mia and Simon versus Lord genome and his six... utterly unexplained women) battle a much more favorable option.
      • Actually this is explained in the series when the Space King Kittan goes out into the super high density space ocean. That doctor woman, whose name escapes me, says to, I'm pretty sure, Dayakka after he wonders how the ganmen are functioning in the ocean despite spiral energy being absorbed, "It ran with electricty when it was on the ground." Also, the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann was able to still run on spiral energy because Simon just produces that much.
    • Some level of Spiral energy must've been used to make him immortal.
  • Are we ever going to find out about the initial discovery of Spiral energy and/or the initial development of the Ganmen (or proto-Ganmen mecha)? If not, I'd really like to see a Fanfic explore this.
    • Parallel Works number 8. NEXT!
  • What's the deal with that necklace anyway? Lagann's origin gets explained, but we never find out where that core drill came from.
    • Simon found it digging. I think this was in the first episode.
    • Isn't it pretty much classifiable as part of Lagann? Like the key to a car. I'm guessing Simon found the two near each other, and they had been buried together.
    • Yep, Simon found it within seconds of his first actual appearance.
    • The core is implied to be a generic, relatively for Laganns, spiral focusing device that channel it into devices like Lagann and the box Nia came from.
  • How did all the other Spiral clans contact them immediately after the defeat of the Anti-Spirals? The only reason the humans had any technology at all was because they managed to fight off all attacks after a long period of subjugation. If the Anti-spirals had defense systems on all planets, then they should have kept the others too beaten-down to be able to get into space.
    • If every Spiral world has a guy like Leeron (er.. okay.. sort of like Leeron, at least) floating around somewhere in the population, the technological knowledge would remain even if they're being murdered too hard to put it to good use.
      • No one can be like Leeron. He's just too fabulous.
    • The "Earth" of TTGL is probably more regressed than the average world as Lord genome did his best to prevent technology and humans from advancing enough again to attract Anti-spiral attention. Many worlds might have just begun their own fights, didn't hide and "all" was probably a bit of an exaggeration.
    • The Anti-spiral avatar mentioned that all of this, down to how Nia rebelled in the end, had happened before (minus the part where they actually got beaten). Probably on many of the worlds there was still a Lordgenome-like figure oppressing their inhabitants, but when they suddenly sensed the death of the Anti-spirals, they all simultaniously contacted Earth (which was basically put on a galactic screen by the AS as an example) and rejoiced at being able to free their races again.
  • Why did all the Anti-Spirals' planetary suppression systems collapse after the main Anti-Spiral was defeated? Aren't these supposed to be automated systems?
    • Same reason Nia did.
    • Okay, that just pissed me off. Why in the nine hells did Nia vanish? Or rather... argh. How did a 'program in her DNA' convert her into an energy-being-Faceless-One-thing from being a (relatively) normal half-human-half-whatever-Lord-genome-was female? And why didn't she just explode like all the other Faceless Ones as soon as that happened, since she obviously didn't have an energy shield like they did? And if she was 'corrupted' with Spiral Energy... gaaaaah... Stupid-plot-hole-to-achieve-downer-ending-thing.
      • The best explanation I can give is one part Ontological Inertia and two parts Hand Wave.
        • Actually, she should have exploded. Remember how she starting fading out during the final battle? The only reason why she didn't, and why she survived long enough to make it to the wedding, was that she was holding herself together through sheer willpower.
      • I always thought of it as the messengers being some sort of a "genetic program", so to speak, and the Anti-Spiral Homeworld as a database. Without the database, the program disappears. That's why she began to fade a little when Yoko shot the Homeworld. She held on as a ghost through sheer badass.]
    • Anti-Spiral energy? Anti-Spirals seemed to use it or something very much like it to replace spiral energy, though pinkish Spiral Energy was shown before on occaisons. Over the series we see disheartened Spiral beings lose all power immediately with a similar result as pulling the plug on a machine. The Anti-spirals were just advance enough to last until they at least died instead of being demotivated.
    • Another possibility is simply this: Spiral energy is basically the desire to do better, to go "you beat me down now, but I will improve a bit, and a bit, and a bit till I break through that wall." A point of view that even allows Viral to have it, according to one of the entries near the top, despite being a Beastman. So assume the following:

1) Anti-spirals die, all "anti-spiral" energy is cut off leading to their creations turning off or self-destructing if they need the energy to be maintained. 2) Nia can use spiral energy to suppliment this, but as we see she "fades" before the Anti-Spiral King is even defeated, already coming to terms she is going to die if the ASK is killed. Basically, she is going against the principle of spiral energy by accepting defeat/death. 3) Nia keeps willing to live, willing to exist to marry Simon. Marriage occurs, she gives up, and thus cuts the spiral energy umbilical cord she was providing for herself. All goals achieved, she dies. All in accordance to TTGL philosphy. Nia gave up. She didn't try touch the untouchable.

      • That's because Nia thought it was unfair. For her to live unfairly abusing of Spiral Energy and unnaturally prolonging life.
    • Simple answer, finely explained. Nia was a human the Antispiral created that had an implant of anti-spiral energy in her. When the 1000000 mark hit, a trigger was activated that reconfigured her into an Anti-Spiral being, but she had been around Simon so much it didn't turn her completely. The AS King implies this normally happens, but not to this extent. Normally he says the other messengers have given in to their anti-spiral processes by the time he analyzes her. As the AS king had created all Anti-Spiral energy, the only thing holding her together was a tiny bit of spiral energy. Like Viral said, it was amazing she was able to hold herself together for a full week.
  • The End. Just... I really, really wish everything after they kiss didn't exist. I am now seriously more depressed than I was with Evangelion... how could Simon lose himself so badly?
    • This Troper has heard a friend humorously rationalize it as Simon becoming the "priest of the Drill God," rather than, you know, a hobo. While it doesn't at all take the sting out of this supposed and obviously mythical ending, the fundamental principle still applies- perhaps rather than him being a homeless, failed and forgotten vagabond (and how could that happen to the savior of the friggin' universe?) he is instead more of a wandering hero, living out his days on earth doing good and inspiring others while patiently waiting for his reunion with Nia, Kamina, and the other fallen in the afterlife he knows exists? (Of course, too, this begs the question of why he didn't take high office or at least use his prestige to do good, like Viral.)
      • Don't get me wrong, I understand why he did it, had he kept hanging around, The post-Anti-Spiral Government would have been completely undermined by his mere presence (see: Act III). I'm just saying it's horribly depressing to hear him say "Who do you think I am?... That's right... I'm nothing" Speaking of Afterlife... how does he know it exists? Or are we extrapolating from the random apperance of Kamina in the Lotus Eater Machine Dreams of those he cared about, and the massive build up of Spiral Power from all the dead?
        • Ah, but you're forgetting something very, very important here. This universe (pretty much literaly) runs on Rule of Cool, right? Let me offer the alternatives: Simon is just a 'hobo' and there is no afterlife. Is that cool/awesome, at all? No, of course not, so naturally, the only interpretation is that Kamina actually intervined, although dead, to help out everyone at that crucial moment, which is certainly more badass and cool than the alternative! From that, it's no strech to imagine that Simon is pretty much just doing as described.
        • He said, "I guess I'm nothing." And he said it to a very young and very distracted kid, I think of it as him not telling a story, that to him, is boring and the kid isn't interested in.
      • It's very possible Simon is officially immortal actually. He's, by the end of the final battle, gained the spiral eyes. By the end of the timeskip, he looks older, but not near-50 old. Late 30s at the most, and nowhere NEAR as aged as the rest, though he should be, of course. His left eye appears to be permanently in a spiral pattern, something that he now shares with another ageless immortal, Lord genome. Besides, I like the wandering hero idea as well. It seems... very Simon. Not wanting to be hounded about his past, what he's done, but to move forward, and embrace the lifestyle Kamina gave him, he wanders the countryside, bringing happiness to whoever he can, whereever he can. He helps a land, and wanders on, to help another. I like that, myself, so I always assumed it was a mixture of the two. Then again, I actually liked the ending. It felt appropriate to me. A quiet farewell sort of thing, no massive celebration, no carrying the hero on your shoulders. A final bit of quiet peace, something Simon devoted his life to finally having.
        • Simon doesn't look like he's in his 50's because he isn't. He's only 41.
      • I just presumed it was because with the sheer amount of Spiral Energy he'd built up by then, he thought it would be best if he didn't go around using it, as that would risk causing the Spiral Nemesis thing.
    • I hated it at first, but then came to the conclusion that there was nothing more epic left for Simon to do, so the rest of his life was pointless by definition. He'd already pierced the heavens with his drill, so what else was there to do? Sure, he says he's 'nothing', but his era has come and gone. Since he isn't using his Epic levels in Badass, he isn't anybody. The next generation of Spirals are the ones going around asking who the hell people think they are now.
      • Besides, what's he got to prove to this little kid? Or to anyone, really?
        • Maybe it's sarcastic, "Oh I guess I'm no body." He was talking to a disinterested kid, who wasn't paying any attention to him.
    • The way I see it, it's what's best for Simon. I mean, think about Part 3--he was absolutely miserable in a position of power, and honestly didn't seem all that good at it. He's a war hero, but there's not much of a place for war heroes in the new, unified galaxy. He could have stayed as some sort of figurehead, but would he be happy? Besides, after spending all his life trying to pierce the heavens over and over, searching for more and more, bigger and bigger things...did he ever step back and look at the home he had, look at the world he had been fighting so hard to save? Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but it seems to me that Simon, all out of heavens to pierce, decided to look around at the world he already had. Simon's become a wandering sage, a Retired Badass, if you will. He's still out there, ready to help the world if he's needed...but for now, he's content to be Walking the Earth, sharing his wisdom where it's needed.
      • "And Caesar came to the shore and wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer". Only Simon was not as good at retirement as Caesar.
      • Watch the very beginning of episode 1 and then the very end. "All the lights in heaven are our enemies" / "All the lights in heaven are stars"
      • Although at first this troper wasn't happy with Simons declaration of being no-one, it does make sense. It follows on from his earlier statement that he just drills the hole, it's up to someone else to go through once he's opened the way. So in this world, he's right, he ISN'T someone incredibly important. He's done his job and is happy in that. As shown by the early stuff after timeskip, he's not cut out to lead the world. He's just Simon the Digger, who is no-one/nothing to this kid. And thats as it should be. Perhaps bittersweet, but it's up to the rest of the people to follow on from him, without living in his shadow.
    • This troper never understood this complaint. There's been peace for twenty years or more. They have defeated everything evil in the universe. All the main characters are over 40. Aren't they entitled to let themselves go? Why do they need to keep up their epic levels of sexiness unto old age? After all the shit they went through, they are perfectly entitled to relax. Simon walked the Earth of his own volition. In the epilogue, nobody was doing anything they didn't want to. Simon wanted to walk the Earth, Yoko wanted to be a teacher, Rossiu wanted to lead the city. Everyone was happy, it was great to be able to see them all get nice conclusions.
    • Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is the ultimate proof that Gainax hates their fans. Think about it, the story is totally awesome, but the art and animation is so inconsistent, and often bad, that the show is nearly unwatchable. And they finish it off with what might be the worst Gainax ending of them all... They even promised us an uncut episode 6, and still no nudity (and it isn't like they've been shy about that before).
      • The animation settles down about half-way through, though the initial half is pretty rough, alas. However, with the exception of episode 4 it never comes anywhere near "unwatchable", and post-timeskip it never drops below average. As for the final episode, Nia's death was pretty much a standard "Let's add needless drama", but it did, at least, have a bit of a point, namely that sometimes sacrifices have to be made, that the Roussius of the world are not entirely wrong. It's against the rest of the show, so it feels very out of place, but it's not wrong. Finally, as for episode 6, you're citing the lack of nudity on a kid's cartoon show as a strike against it? Seriously? Me, I'd be happy if there was no episode 6, makes it really awkward to watch with the family.
      • I thought the uncut episode 6 was hilarious, particularly with regards to nudity (or lack thereof).
      • There is an uncut episode 6. "Uncut" in this instance meaning "all the stuff that was originally in the episode but got censored on TV," not "we added in MORE NUDITY for the horny fans."
    • It all goes back to "Don't believe in the me who believes in you, believe in the you who believes in yourself." Simon's come to the same realization that Kamina finally did; he doesn't finish saying "Who the hell do you think I am?!" because he doesn't want to take credit for the kid's victory. Simon's not a failure, he's not giving up on the spiral philosophy, but he's already pierced the heavens and he wants to get out of the way so that others can be heroes now. His fading out of public life is his way of telling humanity "Don't believe in the Simon who believes in you. Believe in yourselves."
  • What was the "new type of Spiral energy" the Anti-Spiral King was investigating?
    • It was Boota's Spiral energy, I think.
    • I thought so too, but after rewatching the scene I suspect it was Simon. Boota and Lord genome provided just enough "interesting..." to convince the Anti-Spiral King it was them.
  • Enki/Enkidu/Enkidudu. Okay, seriously. Why in the hell did the customization of that particular mecha move more towards uselessness as the series progressed? Viral's first loss happened when he switched to his only melee weapon. The missiles and shooting blades and whatnot were shown to be very effective before Gurren Lagann showed up, so why did subsequent upgrades use only one projectile at most? (throwing the head-blade) Did he just get put on the Teppelin's shit-list for the first loss or what?
    • The meta reason would be Villain Decay. The in-universe one... No idea.
      • Just re-watched Episode 17, which makes this even worse; he uses the aforementioned projectiles in the battle against the Grappals/Gulaparls, so he clearly did have those things; he's just an idiot.
      • The in-universe one could even be Villain Decay as that is a plot point using Viral in comparison to Spiral Energy. The original attacks were against basically noobs at fighting. So they were extra effective then. Still, think about the progression. The first battle he is/was a soldier out on the field. Till his defeat and the loss of Dai Gurren he had been bent on retrieving his helmet, his honor and using a weakened robot. From Dai Gurren to Telepin he is scrounging for favors and begging to fight again. The Big Four were most likely not wanting to waste their good range projectiles on a loser. He was defeated too quickly at Lord genome's throne room to be certain if he had any again now that he had Lord genome's favor. Either he did, and was just wiped out too quickly or he scavanged them in the intervening years.
      • This troper favours a far simpler explanation. Viral was a worthy opponent in the beginning, even taking into account that Kamina was using Spiral Energy and Viral wasn't. Then his commanding officer is killed, and Viral is handed from CO to CO who all love nothing more than taking him down every chance they get, with Adiane making a point to physically abuse him because he's too honorable to defend himself from an officer. All while the Dai Gurren Dan get stronger all the time. Hell, I'm impressed he was still able to hold his own.
      • Lordgenome's explanation of how Beastmen were inferior to humans is probably the in-universe reason. Viral had all of it, just that Kamina (and later Simon) had already surpassed him through their use of Spiral energy. Plus in the first episode, they did little more than annoy GL, much less do any noticable damage. Viral himself might not even be used to using them as an offensive weapon, resorting them to only as an escape plan or as a last-ditch effort.
  • "Go Beyond The Impossible and kick Reason to the curb"... Does that mean that the Simon Kick can punt the gatling railgun of the same name from Snow Crash impossible distances? (Note: This may or may not be a joke.)
    • Yes.
  • So... if they were so certain that they could bring Nia back from the dead with spiral energy, couldn't they just have used it to change her from the Anti-Spiral energy being whateverness back to a human?
    • In this obviously hypothetical and nonexistent ending, yes, they absolutely could've. That's exactly the kind of impossible thing Spiral energy does. It was a Diabolus Ex Machina, nothing more, nothing less.
      • Then isn't the lesson "Whoops, I guess humans really ARE that foolish after all?"
      • This. Doing so would basically be the path of "They dare challenge me? Fine, I'll screw them all out of space in time! Mwahahaha."
      • I really feel that the point is that while they could have saved Nia, this would have been exactly the kind of thing that the Antispirals knew would cause Spiral Nemesis. Spiral Energy is used consistently for amazing feats of awesomeness, but cause tremendous damage to their immediate surroundings. Among other things, Fullmetal Alchemist suggests that there is a very big difference between creating/altering matter and bringing back the dead; even Spiral Power has its limits.
      • That's not the point. He's not asking "why didn't they?", he's asking "why would they have needed to?". They didn't need to bring her back from the dead! They didn't seem that concerned after they made a mech the size (and what must have been many times the mass) of a friggin' galaxy. If they could do that without any significant concern, then how in the hell could changing an Anti-Spiral into a human or doing whatever the hell she did to withstand the lack of ontological inertia but for the rest of her life have caused Spiral Nemesis? That would just be altering matter. I can't even imagine that needing as much as running the Chouginga Gurren Lagann for a couple minutes! If I understood right, their primary reason to go after the Anti-Spirals in the first place was to save Nia, so why would they suddenly be that stingy with Spiral Power, especially considering they are still apparently using it to power mechs in the future?
        • Precedent. They were founding a new world, possibly galactic, order, remember, so anything they do has drastic implications. If they bring Nia back, the precident is set for it to be permissible for anyone to bring a loved one back- and thus, nobody to ever die. No problem in the short term, but long term, it means trillions of pounds of mass being created, as people create mass to have both children and ancestors at once, and thus, eventual spiral nemesis. Even before that, there'd probably be resource issues, and in any case it'd contribute towards creation of a Spiral-based aristocracy, where placement in society, and even lifespan, is based on what emotions you're predisposed towards. Plus, TTGL looked to be more energy than mass, anyway.
    • Similarly, if they were so certain they could have brought Nia Back from the Dead, why did they not think the same for Kamina? Yes, it would sort of defeat the purpose of the ensuing Character Development, but still...
      • That probably would've been even harder considering how long he was gone (it would have been easier to ressurrect any of the other people that just died). Again, they probably figured they didn't want to do something that would require so much Spiral Energy, because they would either have to let anyone else do it (which could quickly cause Spiral Nemesis and/or massively upset the balance of life) or to selfishly hoard it.
    • This Troper's interpretation of the ending is that Simon and Dai-Gurren basically realized the Spider-Man Credo. Throughout the series, Spiral Power was shown capable of doing damn near anything. But at the end Simon, and through him the other characters, realized that just because you can do something does not necessarily mean you should. In their defeat of the Anti-Spiral, Simon basically put responsibility for the universe's fate in the Spiral races' hands. That responsibility requires them to manage Spiral Energy cautiously, to be used only when necessary. Raising the dead for someone's personal desire can not, in any terms, be deemed necessary.
    • Because it's a Fantastic Aesop. In real life we can't bring the dead back to life, so we are taught to accept and come to terms with death. However the idea of accepting death has become detached from the fact that bringing back the dead is impossible, so people think that it is good in and of itself, rather than simply a coping mechanism. The Gurren Lagann writers, being human, fell prey to this misconception like anyone else (although in the translation that this troper watched it sounded more like they were speculating about should they do it if they could do it, not explicitly stating that they could). This troper thinks that, in the future, when we finally do figure out how to resurrect the dead, there will be a lot of idiots who will insist we should accept their deaths, for this reason.
      • This is idiotic of course, unless you have infinite resources. We don't have anything like Spiral Energy here in the real world kid.
    • Simon spells it out in the last episode. It's because bringing someone back to life is against both the characters' whole ethos and the entire point of Spiral Power. Spiral Power is all about evolving and moving ahead - the spiral of a sperm flagellum propels it towards the ovum to create new life, the double helix of DNA is the very basis of life, and galaxies evolve by taking spiral shapes. Spiral energy moves things forward and drives evolution - for those to occur, new life must appear. Bringing back old life such as Nia or Kamina goes against that, as well as stifling youth and stagnating the path of evolution. That's also why he gives Lagann's starter key to Gimmy.
    • Yeah, they could have kept Nia alive. But she was dead. She died when they killed the Anti-Spiral. That's what many people fail to get. Simon married her ghost. A ghost kept around by sheer willpower and badassery. He would have been bringing her back to life, not prolonging her life.. And what the hell, bring Kamina and all the rest back too. In fact, why should ANYBODY die? Let's just all remain statically alive and not allow any growth. Oh, woops, Simon just became Lord genome. I guess humans really are dumb. There's a difference between giving up and letting go. They made that clear 15 episodes ago.
      • All the philosophical and societal issues created by the whole "raising the dead" thing could have been solved with a few simple words from Simon: "I have now saved A) the planet, twice, B) All other spiral life in existence, and C) the entire freaking universe. And now all I want is a happy life with the woman I love. It that really too much to ask?! Didn't think so."
        • This. A million times this. Simon EARNED it. Also, I don't think Nia would be too sad about coming back and raising a family with Simon. She's not freakin' Jesus, people.
      • Why do people have such trouble accepting this: Nia CHOSE to not let people bring her back. It was her decision, Simon ignoring that because he wanted her back would be little more than a tantrum. Nia's death was unfair, but no more than anyone else's. Simon wasn't allowing her to die, he was honoring her will and working it out from there. Life ain't all gumdrops and lollipops, winners in war still get killed. From all of this debate, I'm glad that we don't have the ability to rip physics a new one in real life: we'd start Spiral Nemesis in a week.
        • Well duh. If there was a button labeled "do not press or world will end", the paint wouldn't have time to dry. As a species, we tend to learn what works and what doesn't by trial and error, which is fine when the trial is over fire makes a good loincloth adornment, but doesn't when it comes to altering fundamental constants of the universe or working out significant moral dilemmas.
        • But this isn't that kind of series! In a series all about Serial Escalation, characters flinging galaxies about and the like, the main character bringing one character back to life is suddenly a bad thing? Nia's death was Deus Angst Machina and you all know it, but tell us to accept it because True Art Is Angsty. It's enough to nearly make me a Fan Hater toward anything with any angst at all.
        • Arguments like this are why I hate it when people claim Fanon Discontinuity. Does Nia's death suck? Yes. Should it have not been written? Yes. From a writing perspective, having this happen was a dick move because they could have just as easily written it otherwise and not had a Tear jerking Downer Ending. Is it unjustified in universe and written poorly afterwards? No. In context, this all fits. Bringing back the dead is an abuse of spiral power. It causes the death of the universe, which we know is fact because Simon and Lord genome confirm it. Timeline wise, Simon would have said he wouldn't do just that about yesterday. Keeping her alive is the same kind of abuse. All of that leads to a slippery slope where the universe implodes. Stop making the universe implode.
        • Yes, it would implode if EVERYONE did it. But as savior of the universe and its God for a period of time, Simon was in a unique position to claim his prize for saving everyone. Why couldn't he have just said "yes, I'm bringing Nia back to life. I saved the universe. I EARNED it." and make it so no one else can do what he did?
          • As I believe was mentioned elsewhere on this page: precedent. If Simon's allowed to do it, who's to say any of Team Dai-Gurren isn't allowed to do it? You think the Black Sisters would mind having their brother back? You think Kamina would've minded having his dad back if he were in any position to bring him back? Hell, you think any of the Team would mind bringing Kamina back? But that's not what Spiral Power is for. We keep on moving forward. There are people waiting behind you and if you just stand there in the middle of the road like some kinda moron you ruin things for everyone who follows and you spit on everything those who came before you have worked for. Just who in the hell do you think you are?
            • God. That's who I think Simon is. He's God and he and ONLY he is allowed to do whatever the hell he wants, and what he wanted or what he should have wanted is to bring Nia back. Anyone who disagrees is ingrateful and deserves to (and must be) eradicated in order to prevent the Spiral Nemesis that would result if everyone just decided to bring back their loved ones willy-nilly. But Simon earned it and you can't deny him that. Who the hell do YOU think you are to deny him that?
              • …There is something wrong with you. No one here is denying him anything. He made the decision himself, (if the possibility is even there — "potential of evolution" does not equate to "screw causality" any more than cryogenics equate to time travel) and he would not be — never has been — that presumptuous. There is a very big difference between "Who the hell do you think I am?" and "I will become the god of the new world." That you think — for some reason — that that level of assholery is acceptable proves nothing about the characters. All it shows is that you weren't paying attention.
              • Well, technically, he's a fictional character, so it's the creators screwing him over. What pissed me off is that Nia only died because she was the antispiral's puppet or whatever; instead of waiting for her to die and then bringing her back (which I agree he shouldn't do), he could just take away the antispiral part of her so she's a normal human, and thus wouldn't have any reason to die. In fact, why didn't he do that right at the start?
                • That line of thought has been brought up elsewhere on this page, and the answer is the same: it's not "moving forward." Basically, there is not and never was any way they could have prevented Nia's death without a level of foreknowledge that would break the entirety of the plot — we're talking "knowing what she was/would be as soon as they met her"-level precognizance here.
                  • Absolutely. Spiral Energy cannot 'do anything'.\\
                  • Yes, and neither can modern medicine. But she died because her, for lack of a better word, "power source" was cut. She was obviously capable of generating spiral energy on her own; she used it to keep herself alive until the wedding. Which begs the question of HOW COME SIMON DIDN'T JUST USE HIMSELF AS A POWER SOURCE. We can argue precedents all we want, but the fact of the matter is this was an unprecedented event, impossible to occur again. People die of old age, of disease, etc etc, not of loss of the entire race sustaining them. Saving Nia would NOT be a precedent; it would be aiding what is effectively a WAR victim. For that matter, the amount of spiral energy they expend merely lighting up Gurren Lagann or Tengen Toppa or god forgive SUPER Tengen Toppa is far more than what a single person would use in their entire life time. This is not Nia giving up and accepting her fate, or failure to establish precedents or (as the in universe explanation is) "not standing in the way of the future"; this is sheer bullheadedness. They went to war; people who are caught up in wars, or who are casualties of war almost always get priority treatment, especially in a situation like this. Nia would be easy; just make her how she was before the anti-spirals activated her. She obviously was doing fine then; it was the activation process that made her dependent. Just undo it. Bringing Kitten and Kamina back is a little more iffy, but Kitten is pretty fresh in the grave, and Kamina inspired the whole thing. It's not unjust, the circumstances will never appear again, and the power required is not nearly as much as what was already expended. Case closed.
      • It pretty much boils down to "Spiral Energy does not work that way! Goodnight!"
      • The whole basis of the "bring Nia back" argument seems to be based solely on "Simon saved the universe, he is god and he deserves one selfish wish". Simon made it clear that he never saw himself as anything more than a "driller", which was also the basis of his entire hotblooded, emo-exorcising speech to Guame. He's content with being just who he is, and taking what fate has handed to him. Saying that he should do otherwise means going out of character for him, which is the same as saying that the ending does not suit the series (it's "out of character"). Nia dying also wasn't some way for the writers to screw the characters over, it was (as many people have ALREADY pointed out here) a way to reinforce the AESOP and the ending, since this way we know Simon will not be tempted to abuse Spiral Power until accidentally causing Spiral Nemesis. This is also reinforced during the time where the entire Dai-Gurren team was in the dream world, where they saw their "ideal" life and realised how wrong it was. Simon and Yoko's were the best examples, Simon knew that the Kamina bowing before the cops wasn't really the type of person he wanted to be, while Yoko saw the idealized version of herself, and realised it wasn't her at all.
    • Speaking for myself and only myself, if I saved the universe but lost the woman I loved in the process, I would not consider it a fair trade. Probably a good thing I'm not in charge of these things...
      • So, you would rather let a group of maniacs oppress the universe and probably destroy all life on Earth just because you'd lose the love of your life in the process? Dude, what is wrong with you?
      • I'm a firm believer in You Are Worth Hell.
      • But the question here is: Is she worth everyone in the universe going through hell? Is she worth the destruction of Earth? Would she really want that? You morality aside, if the Dai-Gurren Dan had quite there then the ASK would just kill them anyway.
      • Everybody can rest easy on this because:
      • First: The Aesop isn't really that fantastic. You've already read what I've had to say about that at the top of the page though. Second: It still comes down to the fact that the choice isn't just personal, it would effect more than yourself in such a situation. Really, if there was even the smallest chance that I could save her, I'd go through hell and back. You're right though, it's a redundant argument considering that the chances of something like this coming up is nigh impossible.
      • On further reflection, I probably would make the sacrifice if I had to...I'd just end up hating myself for the rest of my life for it. I would then say to go forward and make your glorious future, just that there's No Place for Me There.
      • Actually, that's pretty much the exact reason as to why Simon left. Once Kamina City was built, the only reason he even stayed there is because of Nia.
      • If I may give my reason for hating the ending? I hated the fact that Simon and Nia just accepted it without a fight. Kamina died and still got up and took down an army and inspired his troops. Kittan knew he was going to die but he went out the way he wanted not giving up until he finally reached the center with spiral energy. Hell the entire Gurren Brigade went down taking as many of the Anti-Spirals as they could or they saved their friends, dying like heroes or at the least not just accepting their deaths lying down. Nia's death wasn't a critical part of the story until after the story was pretty mch finished, it wasn't needed. The writers just wanted to make us sad to create more of an impact instead of it being uplifting and inspirational. Instead of Simon and Nia going "I may die but I'm going to go down kicking and screaming at death, flipping it off, and yelling 'fuck you' in its face" they went 'Well...can't fight fate huh?'. It just seemed to undercut the whole 'kick reason to the curb' feeling because they do the reasonable thing and just accep it unwilling to look at alternatives and not even bothering to 'go beyond the impossible'. The ending slapped the whole ideal of never giving up even when the odds seem tremendous. Thats why I hated Nia's death.
          • And some more if I may, also wasn't there, you know, a SMALL WEDDING. The only ones being at it were the former members of the brigade. And so the only ones who would have seen him bring back Nia would be them. Now my point is, its heavily HEAVILY implied in the exty years from now ending that no one from the brigade had ANY contact with Simon during that time. This means the only ones who would know about Simon's resurrection of Nia would be, the brigade, who never see Simon again, and Simon and Nia themselves. So the whole 'bring back everyone who died' thing would be easily rectified with the fact that no one would know he could bring people back to life and that Simon would never use spiral energy again, again implied he does that anyway.
        • I agree with you. The very fact that it was somehow necessary to have Nia die and make Simon walk the Earth is a bad move in the story and by the writers. For the story outside the Aesop, the death was wrong because it ends the story on a Downer Ending disguised as a message to move on. It removes the aspect of a proper narrative towards an acceptable climax and causes the ending to falter into a very depressing move for the audience. Narratively, Studio Gainax has done this before; ruined a good ending after everything is achieved-when it would make sense. To add to that fact alongside the additions from the movie, it is rather clear they either have no respect for Nia, or no respect for her archetype; a strong-willed and incredibly sweet female characters. Add alongside the fact that she established her eternal love for Simon early, then used Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil in a truly disgusting way by the Not-In-Character Anti-Spirals against this character, and finally kill her off in the end after all the shit they did!?. Even using that hated Trope was WRONG, and it should have NEVER been used in terms of her or any character! This is the prime reason I absolutely refuse to see the second movie, and also the prime reason why I feel she should have been allowed to live only based on the original anime itself. Nia's forced death was not only a message detracting the Nice Girl and Girl Next Door, but it also reeked of a festering, immoral and completely disrespectful notion towards all character-based narrative. Her life meant more than that, dammit.
    • I thought it was that the gang grew a little during the final battle. They learned that "abusing" Spiral Power would create the Spiral Nemesis (if they heard it before, this confirmed it), and decided not to let that happen. As such, they figured that they wouldn't use SP again after the battle if at all possible, no matter how much it pained them to do so. It hurt Simon like hell, but he stuck to what he believed in.
      • The problem is that they are not never using Spiral Power again. We see them using tons of it to power all of their technology and Ganmen, including the all powerful Gurren Lagann itself, are still in use a decade later. I get the whole precedence thing but still that doesn’t answer everything. For one thing why is Simon stabilizing her body considered bringing her back from the dead? She was still alive through sheer force of will. The argument that she was already dead falls apart when no one has a problem with her hanging on for a week. Why is her using Spiral Power to stay alive for a week not considered “not moving forward” any more than her living a natural lifespan? Nia wasn’t dead yet. And while I get the whole death is permanent and they are not gods things, why can’t they save her life BEFORE she dies. Humans are always trying to save lives and prevent deaths and that is considered fine. How can one thing be considered letting the new generation take over but the other one is evil that will immediately lead to the Spiral Nemesis? If she is not gonna be made immortal and people aren’t going to resurrect everyone to stop the cycle of life, how is prolonging the life of one person considered so bad? And I refuse to believe that it is impossible for Spiral Energy to do this. We have not been given any indication of a limit on what Spiral Energy can do. What is to say that a limitless energy source that can create matter can’t return Nia’s body to its pre-Anti-Spiral form or make her a more stable body. I am not saying this because I think Simon is a god who deserves to break the rules because he saved the universe as some people argue. I just think that it is horribly depressing that he (and by extension us) should accept that he goes through so much to rescue her and then has to let her die anyway. It makes his fight seem pointless. In a show about kicking reason to the curb and going Beyond The Impossible it is a dick move to have all of his hard work be in vain. Of course Simon wanted to save the universe but he explicitly says that he is going to save Nia, immediately after learning of the Spiral Nemesis truth. He cares for her too much to just give up like that.
  • Can Simon divide by zero without saying "Oh shit" and exploding?
    • Yes, but is not that impressive.
      • Yes, he used Spiral Power to divide the 0% possibilities and making them non-zero, thereby as good as 100%.
  • Yet another scale complaint: Pre-Time Skip, we can see Simon lying in a fetal position sideways in the Lagann. He takes up almost all of the horizontal space in it. Compare this with the first episode, where they managed to get three people inside with it being "a bit cramped," the Hot Springs Episode where they somehow managed to squeeze sixpeople in there, and the final episode, where Post-Time Skip Nia and Simon both manage to fit in with room to spare. My brain hurts now.
    • That last can be explained by the Lagann being modified. Look closely: it even has a second set of handle-things for Nia to hold. There's no reason it can't also be larger. Heck, considering the series, you could probably rationalise all of them with Spiral Energy.
      • …Which then brings up the problem of the Gurren being required to get bigger or else be slightly disproportionate or — ah, screw it.
        • Well, when they combine Lagann restores any damaged limbs etc, so changing gurren's size to fit isn't all that improbable.
  • Why does no one ever blame Rossiu for the Anti-Spiral attack? They know and are told that the "Human Extermination System" is counting the number of people on the surface of the Earth. That means if Rossiu hadn't dragged all the people still living underground to the surface for his census, the HES wouldn't have been triggered, and they might have had a months or even years to enact population controls or something of the sort to prevent all this. Rossiu was the cause, not Simon!
    • It wasn't really a rational thing (I mean hell, they imprisoned their best pilot on the verge of a war), but just a matter of needing a scapegoat.
    • There's also that even though he didn't want Rossiu to drag people there, it was Simon's idea, originally, to move mankind up to the surface and build cities.
    • This troper's understanding was that it didn't matter where the people were when the population reached one million. That was one of Rossiu's reasons for forcing people up in the first place: The concern that undergrounders could push them past the one million mark with no one being aware until it was too late. Lord genome's reasons for keeping them underground was likely the inverse: By keeping humans in confined areas like underground villages their numbers were more or less guaranteed to remain low. If a population got too large, they'd more likely than not expand to the surface where the beastmen would be waiting.
      • Problem with that explanation: Lord genome put everyone underground because the Exact Words of the Spiral Race Annihilation System was number of humans on the surface. And it says in the very first episode that they expand downward.
      • There is also mention of all the earthquakes, the deaths caused by that and the possibility of a whole village collapsing from over-expansion.
    • Also worth noting is that, while Simon dealt the final blow, Rossiu was right there with him during the face-off with Lord genome. Rossiu was just as responsible for humanity's surface movement from the very beginning.
  • The Techno Babble in the last few episodes confuses me just a bit. I mean... just... pocket universes, evolution leading to the death of the universe... how does any of it make the least bit of sense?
    • The reason evolution would lead to the death of the universe is because spiral energy allows one to create matter thus increasing the mass of universe, if the universe became to dense it would begin to condense and eventually cause a Big Crunch.
      • Of course, this is arguably a better fate for the Universe than letting it expand forever until everything freezes, which is what would currently happen now, since a Big Crunch might allow another Big Bang to Happen and for the Universe to be reborn. But then, the Anti-Spiral's logic is flawed in a lot of ways.
        • This Troper is under the impression that the reason the Anti-spirals waited until there were one million humans before attempting to destroy them was because the Anti-spirals were trying to ration the use of Spiral Energy (i.e. have enough mass generated to prevent the heat death of the universe, but not so much that the universe is destroyed in a Big Crunch) rather then prevent its use entirely.
  • Is Rossiu's father his village's High Priest? Their facial structures are, for a series with no look alikes I can think off and lots of unique designs, really similar (compare High Priest from episode 5 to Rossiu from episode 27's epilogue). Add that the High Priest seems to break down when recognizing that making Rossiu's mother leave the village is the one thing he regrets the most...
    • I found that pretty obvious, myself; that the High Priest was Rossiu's father.
    • Depending on which version of the sub you're watching, Rossiu calls the guy "Father" once or twice, but I figured that was because he was a priest and that's generally how you address one. It's not like he said "Otou-san". Also, aren't priests supposed to be celibate or something? Having a child kind of belies the fact that he isn't.
      • But that's only going by Catholic doctrine (which given the setting, we can rule out)
  • Who the hell do you think I am?
    • Nobody.
    • The goddamn Batman.
    • Spiral energy.
    • A Gurren Lagann fan?
    • A poor excuse for Kamina. Come on, grit those teeth and put some backbone into it!!
      • WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM???
  • Who are those drill-chicks that Lord genome always has draped over him? We see them used as drills when Lazengann activates, and we see the same effect when TTGL activates for the first time, so are they actual people, say ex-Spiral Soldiers under Lord genome, or just beast-menesque ho-constructs?
    • They're from a surface village populated entirely by cute girls, who Team Dai-Gurren saves in one episode. Lord genome uses them for genetic experiments - that's where Nia came from.
      • Yes. Genetic experiments...
  • All the cuts made and commercials put in during Sci-Fi's showing of the last 3 episodes. Seriously, interrupting Simon's escape from the Alternate Space Labyrinth, interupting the final Lagann impact with Quiznos commericials and cutting the huge explosions when the Anti-Spiral dies among other things...
  • Why does the world map in episode 20 have no recognizable continents?
    • It's set in the future, so appreciable continental drift might have occured. Also, in TTGL, Earth has been bombarded back to the stone age from space at least twice. The underground villages have been implied to originally be bomb shelters, after all.
    • It does, if you look closely. The outlines are distorted but all the land mass is in about the right place.
  • If Spiral Energy really might destroy the Universe, what was wrong with the Anti-Spiral's actions, besides that they probably used excessive force to accomplish their goals?
    • The Anti-Spirals think that Spiral Energy will destroy the universe, but it is nowhere near a one-hundred percent certainty. Simon realizes that if the human race can overcome the challenges it has faced so far, it can overcome the risk of destroying the universe too, and find a way to use Spiral energy safely. This troper thinks that this is intended to be a metaphor for human history, people have always warned that the human race is using up all its resources and will destroy the earth and wipe itself out. But we always end up inventing new ways to use our resources more efficiently or to recover them, so we that the human race can constantly grow and expand but not use up or destroy the world. In Simon's words, "Humans aren't that foolish." This keeps with the idea of Gurren Lagann being a Reconstruction that rejects all the despairing mecha series that were made before it.
    • Same reason you would fight a Well-Intentioned Extremist. True, Spiral Energy can trigger the end of the universe. But what the Anti-Spirals did have basically made it a crapsack universe. Conserving energy, while it doesn't have a 100% chance of preventing the end, is still a better way to deal with the problem.
  • Is it me, or does Lordgenome look a lot like Jet from Cowboy Bebop?
    • Yes.
      • "Yes" you agree or "Yes" he's the only one?
  • If the Anti-Spirals are so opposed to the use of Spiral Energy, where do they get the ability to manipulate their own universe and create all those weird hand/foot/face things?
    • Leftover technology from their time as a Spiral race powered by conventional non-Spiral tech? Alternatively, nothing that transpired in the Anti-Spiral universe really happened and it's all a virtual reality. It's unclear to me what exactly the Anti-Spiral universe or the "Super Spiral space" actually are, but the fact that once the Grand Zamboa is destroyed the Chouginga and Arc revert to their non-Lagann forms suggests that something's going on.
    • It's possible that they do use some Spiral Energy for the sake of bringing down Spiral races that have become "too powerful". They seem to think along the lines of "the end justifies the means", so it's not unreasonable to assume.
    • Anti-Spiral energy. Aka energy powered by their desire to stay put. Also, the Anti-Spirals are essentially gods in their pocket universe. They could easily turn planets into giant head things.
      • So is the name of their power source really Anti-spiral Energy? I've actually been wondering about that recently.
  • We have near the beginning of the series a scene of little Kamina and his dad, with his dad asking if Kamina wants to live on the surface or to go down below in the underground village. Kamina chooses to live below. There just seems to be a couple problems with this—if Kamina had originally lived on the surface, wouldn't the villagers wonder where the heck he had come from? Even if they didn't believe 'the surface,' wouldn't that have opened up questions of other humans living near them? If he had originally come from Giha and his father left, and yet there was still Kamina left and rambling about the surface. Wouldn't there have had to be some passage to the surface from Giha? Wouldn't the villagers have thought anything of this?
    • If I remember correctly, they originally came from Jiha. Papa Kamina gave young Kamina the choice of staying underground or to go exploring with him. Being sick or frail or whatever, Kamina stayed behind while papa went off to get himself killed.
  • Just what the hell IS the spiral nemesis?
    • A Big Crunch caused by overuse of spiral energy causing the universe's mass-energy to exceed the maximum quantity it can hold before gravity pulls everything together into a single cartesian point/massive black hole. To be specific, the Nemesis is the aforementioned black hole, although the phrase presumably can also refer to the hole before it consumes the universe, and is merely in the process' of doing so.
      • ...Alright then. I was kind of hoping it would be something that, when it became a problem, could be solved like all of the other problems in the series. That is, by punching the problem.
        • Just so. The only weapon the Spirals can use against Spiral Nemesis is self-restraint. And in the last episode, we see Simon master this ultimate weapon.
    • I always thought it was a grey goo thing, given the relation to spontaneous matter creation.
  • The spiral nemesis bugs me. (Warning, physics) Ok, apparently by abusing Spiral Power you can create enough mass to generate a black hole, fine. But the thing is, even if you made enough mass to make a black hole, this black hole would at most consume a galaxy before there is nothing left for it to consume and thus grow larger. More than that, at the heart of our galaxy (and it is thought most/all galaxies.) is a super massive black hole, the mass of which contains more mass than the rest of the galaxy. So we're talking creating Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and crushing it into an infinitely small point to make something that compares to something both safe and common on a universal scale. Simply put, it is mind boggling, even with the absurd scale of the anime, to create a black hole that could threaten the universe, since gravity still propagates at the speed of light, at most you wipe out a galaxy. However, you fight entropy via the creation of new mass, so there is no real threat to spiral power unless you intentionally misuse it and a real benefit to using it for all your power needs.
    • Maybe Spiral Energy nullifies the Dark Energy that accelerates expansion and/or reverses said energy?
    • From the explanation the Anti-Spiral gives, the fear seems to be that the Spiral Nemesis would be formed from multiple Spirals generating the energy equivalent of galaxies simultaneously. This would result in a multi-galaxy level black hole. Possibly still not enough to consume more than one galaxy in real world physics, but real world physics has nothing to do with TTGL.
    • Spiral Power destroys and breaks down the laws of physics. These may not be ordinary galaxies, but spiral-infused ones. It would likely trigger a domino effects, accelerating the amount of matter until the cosmos collapses in on itself.
  • There is a whole pit filled with (presumably) Lord genome's boxed-up KIDS. That is shown in one, maybe two episodes, and NEVER SEEN/HEARD OF/ANYTHING AGAIN. I mean, I get that they're most likely dead, but show some decency. Put 'em in the ground, man.
    • They buried them at the end of the episode. Does nobody watch the shows they complain about anymore?
  • Was it ever suggested Spiral Energy can bring someone back from the dead other than one kid in shock? My interpretation was less "he could have brought her back but refused" and more "Simon and Nia knew this was coming, so Simon is just grateful for the time he had with her."


  • It's All There in the Manual that Beastmen Ganmen run on solar cells, and are useless at night. Even if the characters didn't know that, they might have guessed from the lack of nighttime attacks. Now obviously Kamina's manly spirit would not allow something so underhanded as a night attack, but it's odd that no one even suggests attacking when the enemy is completely helpless.
    • Attacking where? The Beastmen bases are mobile. The reason Beastmen don't attack at night is because they have to sleep, otherwise they won't survive, not because their robots don't run. There are these things called capacitors and batteries you know.
    • If they were using stored energy from sunlight, then why did the giant Gunmen in episode 6 need a different power source to be able to attack at night? Anyway, the most likely explanation is that they were simply too well hidden.
      • Who says it needed a different power source to run? All the Beastmen in that episode claimed were that they were nocturnal. If Ganmen can't run at night, how did they fight in the battle where they claimed the Dai-Gurren, where the sun wasn't out at all?
  • How exactly do you pilot Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann? I mean there's a whole bunch of people in TTGL. So, does that mean they have to work in "perfect unison" to even make the thing walk? Or do they somehow let each other take turns piloting it? Or is Simon in control of the whole thing? Also...how can humans even see a galaxy sized enemy when they're not EVEN CLOSE to its size? I can't "see" something as huge as galaxies with my eyes when I look up at the night sky, so how can they? Ah...It's confusing...but so very very awesome.
    • As for how they're piloting it, it's made clear early on that all Gunmen operate by pilots making vague movements of the simple controls and the machine reads their mind/will/whatever to interpret what actions to take. As for how they can see something the size of a galaxy, the galaxy-sized object happens to be many light-years away. The light is reaching them that fast for the same reason something as massive as TTGL or Grand Zamboa doesn't collapse into itself like a black hole: Spiral Power.
      • That's not really what I meant. That's how to pilot gunmen in general. Their TTGL is kinda special though, because it has more pilots than most gunmen. Well...an odd example would be a car. It would kinda be weird if there was more than one steering wheel, right? Since Team Gurren has different minds/wills, how exactly do they work in unison without "overriding" each other?
      • Since Gunmen are operated/powered by willpower, I think the whole reason TTGL was so powerful was because everyone was able to work in unison, with one person occasionally "taking lead" when they were deciding to talk. In fact, the whole "many working as one" thing is often a major theme in Combining Mecha series.
      • Ah, so they do take "turns". That makes since. Thanks for clearing that up.
  • Why did the Anti-Spiral show Lord genome about the Spiral Nemesis rather than just kill him? Did it just suspect that Lord genome would oppress humanity when shown this information, while the heroes of the series wouldn't?
    • It couldn't kill him and the rest of his fleet without using a lot of energy. Which is rather opposite to the Anti-Spiral's objectives. Telling him that he's going to blow up the universe is better than fighting him and making him blow up the universe.
  • Okay, so I just finished the series. English dub version. Anyways. Last episode, the Anti-Spiral King is talking about who the Anti-Spirals all. He starts taunting/asking/whatever Simon and the others if they have the willpower to do what the Anti-Spirals did, by locking up their bodies so they couldn't evolve and keep using Spiral Energy. One problem. From what I understand, willpower IS Spiral Energy. So... The Anti-Spirals are using Spiral Energy to stop the Spiral races from using Spiral Energy? What? Could someone please explain?
    • Honestly, that seemed somewhat hypocritical to me too. Maybe it's that they were using their determination not to move forward.
      • I think it's that, and that they do use some Spiral Energy sometimes (they show a very "end justifies the means" mentality).
    • This troper assumed that Spiral Power was simply the physical and mental resolve to move forward. Thus, Anti-Spiral Power was resolve to stay right where you are. Funny when you notice that Dai-Gurren Dan are on the attacking side, and Anti Spiral King is just rolling with the punches.
  • Not to start any flames over spellings, but this really is just bugging me. All the official stuff I've seen (which is admittedly fairly little) show first-big-bad, Nia's-father, creator-of-Beastmen guy's name as "Lordgenome", one word. However, on this page and on WGM, most people are spelling it "Lord Genome", either as a first name-last name or as title-name... Why? If it's officially "Lordgenome" and has a reasoning behind it (from what I understand, so people don't confuse and back-translate it as "Genome-sama"), why spell it as two words? I mean, I can understand people who are new to the fandom (me, first nine eps!) that haven't seen it written out making it two words, but I was quickly corrected and it just seems silly to me... Anyways. Sorry for rambling and the overuse of hyphens here, but could someone please explain? Thanks!
    • It really is one word, and everyone knows it. People just put an erroneous space in there because it looks right, Lord and Genome being genuine words that don't naturally compound.
    • Okay... So if I appeased my inner spelling-obsessive (in this context, it's one word!) and went and fixed all the mentions... Would someone be horribly angry and change them all back?
      • Nope.
      • Alright then! Time to start on a massive fix!
      • Word of God says the reason they combined the word was so that the Japanese audience wouldn't think that Lord and Genome were first and last names. Since we're talking about it in English, it really * should* be translated "Lord Genome", because the lord was intended as a title to begin with.
      • Yet I've definitely heard him referred to as Lord genome-sama... Lord Lord Genome?
      • In my case it boils down to personal preference, at least. Really, "Lord Genome" sounds cool, and "Lordgenome" just sounds wierd, in my opinion.
  • Why do some pages on this site, like Stuff Blowing Up, say that the Anti-Spiral exploded seven times? I only counted five.
    • After the Anti-Spiral's last words, it cuts to a view of the galaxy, and there's a shockwave (with its own explosion sound effect) followed by five bursts. Then it cuts to people watching a giant cross-shaped explosion, which is a different color than the last burst, making it a different explosion even though we don't hear it.
    • Also, the same guy (me) wrote most (all?) of them and I think I just miscounted (as it says the explosion was cut for time on the Sci Fi Channel broadcast, so I haven't seen it since I watched a Fan Sub like a year ago).
  • The final battle is so fast-paced and HSQ-high that we don't have time to appreciate Yoko's epic sniping feat. Weird scale aside, the Anti-Spiral's home planet is still a planet, and it shows up as about the same size as Earth, or at least within one or two orders of magnitude. The Grand Zamboa was attacking at the time, and so its head was moving, and the slightest twitch of a robot that size breaks relativity in half. So the planet was moving back and forth ridiculously quickly. And Yoko only takes a few seconds to aim at the thing. To summarize: Yoko snipes a planet moving back and forth at speeds so ridiculous that "superluminal" doesn't even come close to beginning to describe them, from across a galaxy, while under heavy fire, after aiming for only a few seconds, in one hit. Why does this not get more attention?
    • ... Now that I think about it, that really is awesome. Added to the CMoA page.
  • Why do people say Kittan is like Kamina? Kittan is a violent dick, and Kamina is an inspiring and fairly kind man who inspires the insecure. They do have physical similarities and do similar stuff but that's it.
    • Kamina can be a dick too, but both are aggressive thrill-seekers, mainly. The main difference is that Kamina is good with words, and Kittan isn't (which is somewhat lampshaded later on).
    • The ressemblance between Kittan and Kamina is alluded in the movies where it is said that, while Kamina was in the front leading everyone, Kittan was in the rear pushing them forward. Also, after the death of Kamina, Kittan is chosen as a leader because, well, because he is one like Kamina. As for Kittan being a dick, after watching the series a couple of time, I think that Kittan deserves more credit than he gets. While he acts all tough with guys, that facade melts with girls, like when he intterrogate Nia or when he is with his sister after the timeskip. And he is truly shocked by Lordgenome rejecting Nia, saying : "What kind of man would do such a thing?"
  • "Don't believe in yourself. Believe in me, who believes in you!" - What does that mean exactly?
    • Kamina knew that Simon had issues with believing in himself back then, but he did believe in Kamina himself, and Kamina meanwhile believed in Simon. He was basically trying to tell Simon that he believed in him, even if Simon didn't believe in himself.
      • So it's like: "We don't believe in ourselves, but we can believe in each other." support each other type thing? Like both of them holding the other one up?
        • Exactly. This is taken to its logical conclusion with Kamina's dying words, too. He's telling Simon "Hey, I'm not going to be able to support you anymore. But you can do it all on your own, trust me."
    • Actually, it's a mistranslation. It's supposed to be "Don't believe in yourself. Believe in the Simon [or whoever] that I believe in!"
  • Where did Kamina find a tattoo parlor to do that ink all across his body? Doesn't seem like Jeeha's economy is big enough for something like that to exist. Then again, neither should there be a market for sunglasses, so this may be a weak argument.
    • His latent spiral power caused them to manifest due to Rule of Cool.
      • There's probably a Lost Technology tattoo parlor and sunglasses storage unit somewhere in Jeeha village.
    • The tats are actually the dye from the last shirt he wore, which disintegrated in about 2 seconds.
    • They were probably hand-tapped by one of his old Gurren-Dan pals—no tattoo machine required.
  • This may be a bad question, but why couldn't Spiral Races, in the event of the Spiral Nemesis, just use more Spiral Energy to counteract it? If we go by the logic that, if triggered, escaping the Spiral Nemesis would be impossible, well... did 'impossible' ever stop anyone before that? Ever? I mean, making the impossible possible is the whole friggin point of Spiral Energy!
    • Yeeeeeeeeeeeah... a black hole is going to be stopped by adding more mass to it... yeeeeeeeeeah.
      • Perhaps by imparting enough angular momentum (spinning the black hole a lot), they could shrink the black hole's event horizon, exposing the singularity. Then they could punch it. A lot. There's actually a bigger problem with the whole 'universe swallowed by black hole' idea: relativistically speaking, it would be very difficult for us to detect whether the entire known universe is already falling into a ridiculously massive black hole: the big scary part of a black hole is tides, not g-forces, and the tides generated by a black hole decrease with size. As to whether conventional physics has any place in this discussion... Eh.
    • Even if it isn't a supermassive black hole, this doesn't change the fact that untold multitudes hold power beyond comprehension that basically revolves around "Screw you, I'll just get what I want anyway!!" Any small divisions and they'd destroy each other just as well as any black hole could, just like those guys in the opening. Spiral Nemesis wasn't just an astronomical event, but a sociological event as well.
    • Since the Spiral Nemesis would be a black hole created by excess Spiral Energy/Spiral Energy created matter, rather than "normal" matter, the black hole itself would be Hot-Blooded - you couldn't solve the problem by punching it because it would just punch back. Or something.
    • I assumed "throw even more Spiral Energy at it and hope it fixes everything" to be the plan B for dealing with the Spiral Nemesis all along, plan A being "try to avoid it entirely." Perhaps if they willed hard enough it might fix everything (By creating more space? Additional universes? Something like that), but it's not exactly the first resort.
    • The problem is that Spiral Power generally works by generating mass or energy that wasn't there. Spiral Nemesis is caused by an excess of mass leading to a big crunch. More Spiral Power would just feed that process.
      • Exactly. A universe in TTGL has a center of mass. Spiral Power breaks the law of conservation of energy, creating additional mass or energy from nowhere. It can go back away, as seen when a mid combat temporary repair gets undone. The rate at which Spiral Power bleeds back away from a given region of space is constant, while there is no limit on how much can be introduced. If too much power is used in a given amount of time, it drives the universe to critical mass, and it then collapses into a supermassive black hole. At this point, ANY use of Spiral Energy will make things worse. Trying to destroy with spiral energy only converts the matter to energy, which still has mass, and once the collapse starts, it's too late to shut down all usage, because as the size of the universe decreases, the mass needed to cause the collapse also decreases.
        • Note that some usages are more damaging than others. Perceptual teleportation, for example, merely relocates matter, and thus is reasonably safe to use.
  • Why do people always mistake Spiral Power for pixie dust? Granted, it's done some incredible feats, but that doesn't mean that everything can be repaired by wishing hard enough. Things like Nia's, Kamina's, and Kittan's deaths might not have been possible to fix just by waving a drill at them. The entire point behind the Anti-Spiral King's rant was that mistaking Spiral Power for omnipotence will lead to disaster for life.
    • Precisely correct. Remember how Simon didn't want to become the 'new' Spiral King?
  • I hate to be nit-picky, but how did Lord genome create the beastmen? I mean, did he just take some animals, take some people, and use Spiral Power to duct tape them together? And for that matter, how did he make Viral immortal? It seems to me like that might have been put to better use in his generals, as opposed to a less-than-effective rival.
    • He's a scientist. He built them via science. He made Viral immortal the same way he made himself immortal. It's not complete immortality, just good enough immortality. His generals are likely immortal as well; they just can't survive exploding.
    • Its said they are intentionally flawed parahuman hybrids. So basically, they are mostly human, but with enough animal genetics in their DNA so they cannot use Spiral Energy (well, except for Viral).
    • The way Lord genome said it, it sounds to me like Viral can still be killed in conventional ways, his body merely got minor regeneration capabilities to help him live longer.
      • There is a species of Jellyfish in existance right now that has biological immortality, where it reverts back to it's "childhood" stage after a while (think it was after giving birth). It will still die if you blow it up. This is probably the way Genome used to make Viral immortal (give or take a few thousand years and a spiral-powered scientific genius will probably explain it).
  • Lady Adiane full out. Every other beastman and top general looks just like an animal, but then there's Lady Adiane who's practically 100% human except for her scorpion tail, and most of all why does she have those ridiculously huge boobs. The real reason is obvious but still I'd like it explained. Also why exactly are her boobs huge in her dress, but in the beach episode eyecatch her boobs look about the same size as Yoko's?
    • Viral and Cytomander looked pretty dang human, too.
      • Well, the only other female beastmen we see look human at first but can become more beastlike, so perhaps Adiane had a more scorpion-like form but never changed into it due to vanity (plus that'd just be really weird-looking). Alternately, based on Parallel Works 8, where the original beastmen look much more, well, bestial, perhaps Lord genome just perfected the technology over those 1000 years to make more humanoid soldiers. Cytomander was much younger than Guame, perhaps Adiane was too. Viral was fairly high-ranking under Thymilph, and we don't see anyone else of his rank, so perhaps Lord genome just began a tradition of making higher-ranked beastmen look more human than others to distinguish them.
        • Thymilph could be considered looking like a really weird human with gorilla DNA too.
  • Just a general continuity thing. When we first meet Viral, he and Kamina are close to, if not the exact, same height. When we get past the time-skip, when Viral has become immortal and hasn't aged/grown, he's shown as being noticeably taller than Simon; who later is said to have grown taller than Kamina. How the hell did that work?
    • Well, once Lord genome modifies Viral, we never see Viral next to anyone until after the timeskip. Perhaps the Spiral King made him taller for whatever reason, and we just didn't notice without anybody to compare him to.
  • Why do people still think that Gurren Lagann's message is to go beyond the impossible to do whatever you want? Shouldn't it be something like going beyond the impossible... to go towards the future?
    • Well, a central theme of the series is that destiny doesn't exist, and you make your own future. Within that context, the future IS whatever you want it to be. The two are interchangeable.
  • Is there Anti-Spiral energy? That create anti-drills.
    • Actually anti-spinning lances, but yeah.
  • The story takes place at least 1,000 years after Japan existed. Since it doesn't even take 100 years to drastically change the face of a language, the fact that the language didn't move in the slightest is rather annoying. Added to the fact that absolutely everyone communicates without a problem (despite the fact that they wouldn't have much, if any opportunity to speak to other groups for at the least hundreds of years). And simply losing the terms for 'stars' and so on doesn't count; especially because even those words were retained.
    • Translation Convention, dude. We see the script their language is in a couple of times, and it isn't Japanese.
      • I wasn't talking about the fact that we were listening to Japanese, but I'll address the point. I'll acknowledge that we're listening to Translation Convention, but even then the whole setup still doesn't work. After 1,000 of the various groups being separated, there should have been language differences great enough that there wouldn't have to be only a handful of words explained because language is a living, evolving thing. Rossiu's society, for example, was completely barred off from everyone; they should have been unable to communicate because over 1,000 years, not only terms but entire rules of grammar and pronunciation change wildly (if you don't believe me, go listen to someone read in Old English, which is for the most part less than 1,000 years ago. If you think that it sounds like a completely different language, that's because it is). Not only was Rossiu able to communicate, he was able to understand and utilize phrases (IE: slang) without anybody misunderstanding him. That's just one example, but it should be placed upon every individual group. If this falls under any trope, it's Eternal English; but just because it can be categorized doesn't make it any less ridiculous.
        • True. You should really just ignore it, and assume they got past the language barrier offscreen. Also, while the villages haven't had any social intercourse recently, there's no reason that inter-village commerce couldn't have been common earlier. Kamina's father had to have gotten to the surface somehow, of course.
        • When I saw it, it was in english, make of that what you will.
        • I'm assuming that's the dub being failures and necessitating that EVERYTHING BE IN ENGLISH OMG.
    • This is just Fan Wank, but the villages probably weren't separated for the full thousand years. Remember, Yoko managed to identify Jiha as "the pit next to" Littner. It seems more likely that they started out in contact, but over the years the tunnels collapsed to geological activity, the communications systems broke down and had their parts salvaged to put the comm-screen glass into epic orange shades, and so forth. It may have been only a century, which would produce different dialects but would only result in incomprehensibility if they had some really bad slang epidemics. Rossiu's village was probably separated for longer, but by that point they had Gurren Lagann, which probably has its own Spiral-fuelled Translator Microbes.
    • It's never stated that Jiha doesn't have contact with other villages. In fact, that's where the inhabitants of Ritona moved after the formation on Team Dai-Gurren.
  • How is it that, despite Viral apparently sitting in the chest-portion of the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann at the start of episode 27, he's suddenly in Gurren's cockpit at the end?
    • Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren was capable of instantly teleporting the crew around the ship, so logically its Gurren Lagann form would have that capability, and why wouldn't Tengen Toppa itself? He probably just teleported in there when we weren't looking.
      • Acutaly, if you think about it, he was inside Gurren the whole time. Each of the smaller Gurren Lagann's were piloting the bigger ones in turn, so it be safe to assume Viral was in Gurren durring the fight.
      • Except we're clearly shown that Viral is in Tengen Toppa's chest while Simon and Nia are in its head, and those are light-years apart. Although you can't see the handles, the canopy design makes it pretty clear that Viral's in one of the older Laganns like everyone else. I just rewatched the episode, and the only thing that doesn't make sense is that when he throws Lagann, he's still shown in that cockpit, which I guess means that the old Lagann was inside Gurren, or something. That or it's an animation error.
  • How could a show love spinning so much and yet not have any wheels.The couple of times we see basic transportation vehicles (i.e car analouges) they have 4 gunmen legs.
    • It's a Super Robot show.
      • This troper figured it had to do with the fact that, while wheels spin, it's only in an infinite, unbreaking circle, over and over- rather opposed to the concept of a spiral. Also because Spiral lifeforms evolve naturally to a humanoid form, so one assumes their vehicles would eventually reach that level and we're just seeing a midpoint.
    • Why doesn't anyone have extreme Princess Curls hair, like a drill?
  • I know age is all messed up but in the epilogue it's really off putting, I mean simon should be 41 yet he looks much older.
    • Very simple explanation: He's a drifter, living off the land. Neither one is easy on the body, neither one is easy period, and a person ages very quickly; especially if it's not going particularly well. He obviously broke his nose at some point during it, the chances are good he's been dealing with a lot more than we're expressly told.
    • Especially considering the rather stressful situations that led to this.
  • What would happen if team Dai-Gurren met the SOS Brigade?
  • Why does Nia have a different skin tone from her sisters? She has normal skin tone and Wingding Eyes, but the six other Spiral Princesses have pale-greenish-blue skin and black eyes. Why the discrepancy?
    • Those aren't her sisters. Those are Lord genome's concubines. It'd be better to call them her aunts.
      • That still doesn't really answer the question. The girls in Beauty Village are not blue-green-skinned, but Lord genome's concubines are. What happens to them to cause this change?
        • Part of it is probably due to the lighting of the throne room. Alternately, Lord genome may have pulled some of his freaky genetic-manipulation stuff on them for his own amusement. There's certainly something wrong with them, they have happy expressions when they get turned into batteries for Lazengann...
  • What exactly was the significance of the opening/prologue in the first episode? The whole 'All the stars are our enemies.' combined with Boota's human form, someone who I'm 90% certain is grown-up adult Simon and new Gurren Lagann that was possibly even bigger than the titular TTGL, made it look like some heavy foreshadowing of an ending sequence in which we'd get to see that GL in action as it fires on the WHOLE FUCKING GALAXY, wiping out the infinite armies of anti-spirals in a true spirit of Beyond The Impossible. Instead, Nia dies and the main character becomes a hobo. Did the story change halfway through to accommodate the Gainax Ending and was the beginning of episode one the only hint to what the original could've been?
    • That's pretty much it.
    • Damn, that fucking sucks. The fact that humanoid Boota appears in episode 25-26 implies that they've literally changed it at the last minute. D:<
    • Wasn't that confirmed to be Spiral Nemesis?
    • This troper thought it was a literal prologue to the beginning of the series. Just like Lordgenome before them, this was a group of Spiral Warriors that were trying to destroy the Anti-Spiral, but failed. Their similarities were just to drive home the point that Simon's team was the best. Kind of like in the Matrix when we find out there were like six Neo's before Keanu Reaves. B Asically it was really heavy foreshadowing to something we find out twenty episodes later.
    • Word of God states that's the Spiral Nemesis.


  • If "Gurren" means red (according to the fansub I found), what does Lagann mean?
    • According to one translation site, the Japanese words for red are "niiro, gosai, ru-, aka, reddo, akai, ni". (I did Japanese in high school, but can't remember most of it, so there may be other words.) Neither "gurren" nor "lagann" mean anything according to said translation site. They just sound cool.
    • Well, according to the kanji that spell out the titles of the films Gurren-hen (紅蓮篇) and Lagann-hen (螺巌篇):
      • Gurren is derived from 'Guren', which means 'Crimson Lotus'. The kanji '紅' can be read as 'gu', which means 'crimson'. The kanji '蓮' can be read as 'ren', for 'lotus'.
      • Lagann is derived from 'Ragan', which means 'Spiral Stone'. The kanji '螺' can be read as 'ra', which means 'spiral', and is the first part of the more full Japanese term for 'spiral', 'rasen'. The kanji '巌' can be read as 'gan', and means 'stone'. It makes a bit of sense that Kamina would name it Lagann; Simon dug it up out of the earth with a drill. A drill looks like a spiral from head-on, and Lagann was buried in rocks.
      • Heaven-Piercing Crimson Lotus Spiral Stone? Is it me or is that the best Calling Your Attacks ever?
      • Fridge Brilliance right there. Does that make the Simon's attack at the end of Lagann-hen a Heaven-Piercing Crimson Spiral?
  • Maybe it was a combination of pure badass and Super Spiral space, but if Lord genome can quantum divide himself into pure energy, then why couldn't they just do that to the Spiral nemesis? i mean that would turn the mass of said black hole into energy which would re-expand the universe. Correct me if i don't understand physics.
    • Physics and Spiral Energy don't mix well, one more or less replacing the other.
  • The Four Generals. OK, so Guame is earth, Adiane is water, Thymilph is fire, and Cytomander is air, right? Then why does Thymilph claim to be known as the Raging Wave if he's the General of Fire? Is it a dubbing translation issue?
    • Can't remember precisely, but seeing how his Gunmen is a massive walking battleship with more dakka than you can possibly imagine, perhaps he was just being full of himself. Or seeing how the full output of Dai Gurren could create a metaphorical 'wall of fire', he could've been referring to that.
    • It's more confusing than that. The General's names are based on the alchemical elemental familiars; Gnome (earth), Undine (water), Sylph (air) and Salamander (fire). By that logic, Cytomander is actually fire and Tymilph is air. So, it's probably a problem that stretches into the original names than anything the translation did.
      • Actually, I was under the impression that the Generals were named after the four types of bases found in DNA: Thymine (Thymilph), Adenine (Adiane), Guanine (Guame) and Cytosine (Cytomander) to correspond with the fact that they were created via genetic engineering.
      • It's both. The Japanese are just that badass.
    • I figured the "wave" didn't refer to the kind you find in the ocean, but a "wave of destruction" which kind of fits his character and his personal gunship- and none of the other titles directly refer to an element, as I recall. As for the name derivatives, perhaps they switched the two because putting "cytosine" and "sylph" together makes some very awkward-to-pronounce names.
  • What's driving me crazy is the statement in the interview that the Beastmen couldn't read. That'd be all well and good for the short term, but this is a technologically-advanced society, spanning across the globe, that has lasted 1,000 years. To sustain their population (which has to be quite a bit larger than we've seen), they needed a system of agriculture, politics, military, medicine, etc.. That, and they're repairing and building gunmen at a rapid rate A society simply can't reach this level of advancement without a written language, nor could it sustain it for that long.
    • You're confusing Beastmen with Spiral Warriors. The only remaining member of said technologically advanced society is Lord genome, excluding human descendants who are purposely locked underground and left technologically primitive. Beastmen are simply clones created by Lord genome to keep the human population in check and serve as his servants. Incidentally, all of the built/repaired ganmen are either ancient(thousand-years old) or created through the massive(again ancient) foundry ganmen each of the generals has, like the Dai-Gurren. It'd appear that Lord genome didn't control the entire planet because that WOULD be a logistical nightmare, but merely kept all the humans in the same area. So yeah, the Beastmen population is roughly what you see in the anime/movies and given the Lord genome relays all of his orders through the four generals who then pass it on to the mooks, it's not that much of a stretch that the Beastmen would be unable to read. They're considered expendable canon-fodder and given how they can communicate through ganmen comm's I doubt Genome would've found teaching them to read practical.
  • Why do the Anti-Spirals keep saying the universe will be destroyed by Spiral Nemesis? Even if Spiral Energy is Real, Physics already came up with the solution to prevent Spiral Nemesis: it is called Dark Energy, and it forces the universe to expand to compensate for the remaining Spiral Energy. If you still don't believe this troper, in the universe based on an estimated amount of dark energy in the universe anything based on actual proton-based solid matter we are familiar with (stars, people, Spiral Energy) are distributed to just a small amount compared to Dark Energy. That means, even though these people are Hot-Blooded, the Universe's Dark Energy will just expand further, preventing any possibilities for Spiral Nemesis. Also, Spiral Energy isn't just a weapon of mass destruction capable of Big Crunches, but is in fact a creative force keeping the universe from reaching destruction: If Dark Energy remains as the only force in the universe, the universe will suffer Heat Death (it will run out of hydrogen and freeze over while its constituent particles and atoms decay, becoming eternal darkness), and with Spiral Energy's ability to create matter out of nothing, it can help humans survive The End by serving as a form of fuel production in this Dark Energy, and thus prevent heat death. The analogy is Pandora's Box: if Chaos from the Box is Dark Energy, the Hope inside it is Spiral Energy, and will just cancel the dark energy through a natural balance, keeping the universe from being destroyed. What this troper means is, the Anti-Spirals got it wrong, and all Spiral Races (including Humans and Anti-spirals) must help each other to survive in the real End Of The Universe As We Know It: Dark Energy. Oh, I know, either Anti-spirals are Death Cultists who hope for Dark Energy winning in the end and all the atoms would decay into simple information, or simply Rule of Cool, with the notions of advanced cosmology (dark energy, heat death) being too complex and a part of Viewers Are Geniuses territory. What am I thinking anyway, both Spiral and Dark energies are just hypothetical forms of energy!
    • The Anti-Spiral was talking about ENORMOUS quantities of spiral energy(I believe he said something along the lines of "personal galaxies"), enough to overpower the expansive effect.
  • How come Beastmen such as Viral have sapience and hotbloodedness when in fact they aren't Spirals?
    • It doesn't take Spiral power to be a thinking being or have emotions and drives. That, or the Beastmen are so intelligent that their humane personalities are a result of instinct alone.
  • So, what would happen if you gave Brian Blessed a Gunman?
    • Two things: first, all our eardrums would be permanently shot. Second, combination with William Shatner for the ultimate combination in hammy mecha.
  • All of Team Dai-Gurren's Gunmen were stolen from the Beastmen, right? If so, how come we never see a single enemy Gunmen that looks like one of the Dai-Gurren members'? Or for that matter, how come none of Team Dai-Gurren's Gunmen resemble each other? Did every single one of them just happen to steal a one-of-a-kind Gunmen or something?
    • They modded them after they got them, like how Gurren now has sunglasses.
      • If I recall correctly, most gunmen are different models and look different due to hundreds of years of excessive modding. The only ones that look alike are the crappy cannon fodder ones that are mass manufactured and thus fairly new. Odds are that even if the team started out in the generic gunmen, they'd eventually come across a far superior heavily customized 'one of a kind' gunmen which are basically not that uncommon by the series' standards and they would end up claiming those. On the other hand, the Cathedral does have super-sized versions of Gunmen that they own. Presumably just like with Gurren's first appearance, the Beastmen higher-ups have better mechs and again the team could've hijacked theirs given the heavily implied rebellion in the background.
      • This troper vaguely seeing various copies of the team's Gunmen during the crowd shots in the Teppelin battle, though I'd have to check for sure. And weren't the space Gunmen created specifically for them? Leite said Super Galaxy's "production rate was off the charts" or something like that. I assume there are a series of general bases or skeletons that are then built upon and customised as the pilot sees fit.
  • Why the hell did Lordgenome bury Lagann underground?! With the key? If he knew he was banishing the humans, the only people who could pilot it, underground, why bury your most powerful mech in their reach?!
    • It's implied that this is a Lagann from long ago, which was either never discovered, or lost. Lordgenome KEEPS his Lagann, and destroys all the other ones he knows about.
    • Parallel Works 8 shows that more than one Lagann fell to Earth. The whole planet was bombed at least twice in the series backstory, one could have been missed and pushed underground as a result of all the cataclysm. Plus it took a thousand years and one kid with the most Spiral Power ever produced in the right place at the right time to find it anyway. The real question is, how and why did they all get to Earth?
      • OP posting here. I'm rewatching the series right now, and Lordgenome just said to Rossiu (when Rossiu is interrogating his head), "Though i sealed it underground it was found by humans." while he was talking about Lagann. So he DID seal it underground. He was talking about how he put it there to hide it, but the humans found it... so... what the hell, Lordgenome?
        • Because, it's not "the humans" who found it. It was Simon the freaking Digger. Giha's chief said Simon had been digging unauthorized tunnels, so presumably Simon's Spiral-induced urge to dig and drill led him to go further than anyone else had or was supposed to (certainly it's the only time he had broken the rules, as timid as he was then), and thus ended up being drawn to the objects that would naturally respond to his power. Basically, Lordgenome never foresaw anyone as badass as him being born.
  • As awesome of a scene as it is, when the cavalry shows up to save the day in the battle for Teppelin, how did their gunships all have the capacity to fly? They're pretty clearly based off Dai-Gunzan/Dai-Gurren, but yet it seems they have superior technology. The team only got their flight tech after beating Cytomander, and he only fought them after deducing they were weak against airstrikes. So why could one of the Four Generals' own battleships not fly when a bunch of lesser versions could?
    • Who says Cytomander's is the only squadron or whatever leader with flight tech? Most of the fighting up until the timeskip was done at flatland where walking is just as efficient (if more time-consuming) than flying, but one would think that in mountaneous areas and similar the Ganmen would be flight-capable. What I wanna know is, why did we never see these people capture their Ganmen?
      • You're missing my point- why exactly is it implied that Cytomander is the only one with flight tech? Again, the personal gunship of Thymilph, one of the Four Generals, cannot fly nor can any Gunmen under his command, but a bunch of mass-produced no-name copies can. Parallel Works 8 shows that all the Dai-Gunzans could fly, but this one's missing it's flight tech for no adequate reason.
  • Also, where did Kiyalunga come from, and where did it go? It appears out of nowhere one episode without even a remark of stealing or finding it, and then post-time-skip it never appears again. Why was it the only one of the core team's Gunmen that didn't make it through? Would they have felt too obligated to kill Kiyal off if she was in the final battle, or did they not want any female leads other than Yoko and Nia? They could've fixed this in the movie too, hell, they gave Yoko a Gunman in both and Nia got her own Tengen Toppa. But nope, nothing for poor Kiyal...
  • What kind of an Only Sane Man fires his most competent military leader in the face of an invasion, anyway? Did Rossiu think they'd escape the planet and the Anti-Spirals would say "Oh, never mind then, carry on"?
    • Given what we learn a couple episodes later, Rossiu really was not in the best mental state at the time.
    • Rossiu seems to have thought it was entirely automated; if he thought about manual intervention at all, he probably assumed that they would've assumed lunar impact would've done it and at least waited long enough before eyeballing Earth that humanity could be ready. So likely he just didn't think it through(or was just hoping against hope).
  • At the beginning of the second arc, mention's made of "the Anti-Spiral races", yet at the end it's all down to a single species. Was this a Dub-Induced Plot Hole or what?
  • Okay, here's a peeve of mine. Yoko is known for wearing what amounts to a bathing suit as her all-purpose getup. Why, then, does she suddenly seem mortally scared that anyone take a peek at her nipples? In the 5th episonde, when they pick up Rossiu, she seem genuinely surprised that someone would care how much skin she exposed. As soon as her top flies off, however, it's suddenly run-away-screaming time. Now, I realize every woman has a right to dress as they like without that implying anything else about them, but that's just two very different behaviours that I have trouble connecting to each other.
    • Maybe it's a cultural thing? Maybe it's more culturally accepted in the world of TTGL to show skin, but female nipples are taboo, and Yoko just never really thought about the Fridge Logic inherit in that particular rule. Also, in the fourth Parallel Works, she runs around in the Lagann topless, more peeved at Gimmy for stealing her Bikini top than for having seen her nipples. Also, perhaps she enjoys Thesis Titillation Theory and believes that if anyone sees her nipples, her sex appeal will drop?
      • No, she's clearly trying to cover her breasts in embarrassment behind Kamina in Gurren .
    • I'm more inclined towards the first explanation in that case, but I still don't quite buy it. She's a forward, confident woman who's not ashamed of herself, and she stands against certain doom more than once without batting an eyelid. Sh shouldn't have a problem with this! Meh, I guess it's just one of those things...
    • This troper thought it was a result of Kamina trying to see her naked the whole episode that caused her to react that way. I figured she just didn't want to be sexualized like that. There's a difference between wearing a bikini top for convenience/comfort and somebody seeing what's underneath that for perverted reasons.
      • If it makes you feel better, Yoko just as guilty, staring at Kamina's naked rear in that episode, averting her eyes sheepish when he looked in her direction.
      • She isn't wearing that thing for comfort. Have you noticed how little support its providing? That cannot possibly be comfortable.
      • This troper has cosplayed Yoko before. And really, it's easy to run around in, etc. But if my top flew off, I'd probably be extremely embarrassed like she was.
    • A girl just wants a little privacy, is it that hard? Seeing just skin is one thing, and seeing nipples, buttcrack, pubic hair ect. is another... I agree that it's a cultural thing though.
    • I thought it was because of Yoko's growing love for Kamina. She's not embarrassed if other people do it (as seen with Gimmy), just him.
  • How the hell are they able to live underground for several generations in the first place, if they are closed off and can't receive any more oxygen? also, how the heck are they even able to survive in their gunmen while in space without oxygen?
    • The breathing in space question has been answered further up. The Gunmen were designed for space combat so probably have their own oxygen supply in some spirally way. As for oxygen underground, well, they might have tunnnels or something to the Surface they forgot about over the years, or some kind of oxygen machine Lordgenome provided them with. They may not be as far from the Surface as they seem.
  • Why the hell did they put in the scene of Nia getting genetically-raped in Lagann-Hen? It wasn't in the series, and it was pure Nightmare Fuel. Couldn't the scene in the series have sufficed?
    • The series didn't have every member of Team Dai-Gurren getting their own galaxy-sized mecha and combining them all into an even bigger mecha that is made of Spiral Energy and looks like Kamina, either. I'm willing to forgive them for straying from the series to drive things up even further.
      • Oh, I loved seeing Tengen Toppa Ganmen everywhere. The Nia rape was the only problem I had with the movie.
        • It's not literal, anyway. Exactly what parts would the Anti-Spiral use for such an act?
          • He's a shapeshifting eldritch abomination. He could easily create all sorts of phallic appendages and stuff to rape her with...Good Lord. I finally came up with something that broke my own mind.
  • What is the problem with the Anti-Spiral? I mean, they're anti-villains, but why did they want to wipe out life until the "last scrap of D N A" to impede the Spiral Nemesis, basically stripping the universe from life? What's their gain, living in an eternal universe but without life isn't the same thing that having no universe? Or they suffered from a massive process of Flanderization in the last two episodes (from being KnightTemplars whose objetive was only to control the amount of spiral life in the universe to ominiciads) or they are the most egoistic race in the universe. Well, it just bugs me.
    • Well, the Anti Spiral were only represented by one person, and that person was probably insane. Besides, they didn't want to wipe out all life. They just wiped out the races that got too powerful. Remember, they could have destroyed the entire universe, twice, at any given time, yet they simply installed watchdogs in the moon to alert them if anybody got too powerful.
  • Concerning the Multidimensional Labyrinth, in Boota's portion, he transforms into a human so he can help Simon better. Then the ASK reveals that by doing so he has meet the criteria to also be trapped in the Multidimensional Labyrinth. While that is going on, everyone is in the exact same state as they were on the actual ship and when Boota turns into a humanoid he enters a similar state. So, did Boota traansforming happen or not? Is everything past that point actually still a part of someone's labyrinth? If it was supposed to be Boota's labyrinth, then wouldn't it have made more sense for either A) everyone not be frozen or B) Boota not passing out like he just got trapped in it? I'm... really confused about this. Especially since the ASK was not only in character but acted as if it actually happened. Seriously, what the hell is going on in that scene? If it is somehow a part of the labyrinth, that means that it is possible for Boota to transform into a humanoid in the actual timeime, right?
    • No, that portion was in real space-time. Everyone's in a trance because their conscious minds were locked in the labyrinth, while their physical bodies remained. When Boota transforms, his consciousness gets transported to the labyrinth. We never actually see what Boota does during his time in the labyrinth. By extension, this does mean that he can transform in normal space-time, but chooses not to for whatever reason. Alternatively, if this explanation is not sufficient, just chalk it down to ol' Gainax screwing with us again.
      • So... Boota's transformation actually happened? I wonder then, if that means that everything we saw afterwards was actually someone's dream in the labyrinth. Boota certainly had no reason to revert back to normal (if he could). That only leaves WHOSE dream it was. Assuming Simon DID get everyone out of the labyrinth than no one would be left (aside from the ASK himself). Maybe Simon DIDN'T get out at all. He THOUGHT he did but didn't. In the show, we see human Boota also do that green light thing. Maybe Simon was aware that Boota had transformed but thought it was a part of the labyrinth so HIS labyrinth had Boota joining him (would also explain why Boota was standing up in that scene). So... the Dai-Gurren Dan never escaped the Multidimensional Labyrinth and thus never defeated the Anti-Spirals. Or maybe.. they did but... gah, DAMN IT, GAINAX!!!
        • I’m pretty sure Boota’s transformation only happened in the Multidimensional Labyrinth. After Simon breaks free we see all of the others leave their fantasies by seeing Simon escaping as the giant green comet and they all teleport to it. Boota in his human form one the bridge of the Super Galaxy Dai Gurren is also shown teleporting to Simon. Based on that it seems most likely that everything we see with the Anti-Spiral, Lordgenome and Boota in that episode is inside the Labyrinth.
  • Why is Kittan's Giga Drill Breaker so much bigger than Simon's? Does he have more Spiral Energy? And if so, why isn't he the leader?
    • Think about the scenario in which Kittan gets to use the Giga Drill Breaker, as opposed to the scenarios in which Simon uses it. When Kittan uses it, it's a last-ditch effort; if it fails, everyone dies. Yet when Simon uses it, it's generally just a badass finishing move; even without it, Team Dai-Gurren would probably still win. Thus, far greater determination is involved in Kittan's usage, so more Spiral Energy is available, so the move is more awesome.
  • I was always bothered by the fact that Nia was the Anti-Spiral messenger, as it just seemed like an excuse to have Simon's new Relationship Upgrade thwarted. The Anti-Spirals, after winning the first war against Lord Genome, planted Anti-Spiral genes in random humans on Earth in order to ensure they'd have one of their agents ready to activate by the population count reaching critical. I think it was Guame who mentioned that the all-women population of Beauty Village, the village where all of Lord Genome's concubines come from, was made up of girls who were specifically found to be most likely to produce offspring with Anti-Spiral genes; Lord Genome kept them all in one place to ensure they wouldn't reproduce on their own and spawn an Anti-Spiral without him knowing about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that was the case, why let the women bear his children in the first place? At first, I thought he was being smart by dumping the princesses whenever they achieved self-awareness in order to prevent them from becoming a threat/possibly unlocking their own spiral energy, but if he was going to dump them because of that, he should have just killed them outright to prevent any of them from ever escaping. Nia was lucky enough to be found by Simon, and we all know how that turned out. Besides, Lord Genome is a scientist. If he was able to create Beastmen, who are unable to reproduce, I think the guy could have easily splurged on birth control. My point being, if he was worried enough about Anti-Spiral's to even make Beauty Village in the first place, it seems ridiculous that he could be so careless with Nia.
    • When, exactly, did Guame say that? We didn't even know the Anti-Spirals even existed at that point in the plot. Also, it's random. Every new child was just as likely to be born with Anti-Spiral coding as much as any other one. Beauty Village (where did you get that name from, anyway?) is just Lordgenome proclaiming himself as the king of all pimps by having his own village filled only with his bitches.
    • Actually, Simon finding Nia wasn't as bad as you think. If he never found Nia, they would've never gone to the Anti-Spiral universe to get her back, and wouldn't even been able to get there even if they want to. The only reason they could even get there in the fist place was because of the engagement ring, and that was only there because Nia still loved Simon even while being controlled. Sure, she may have been an Apocalypse Maiden, but if anyone else had been the Anti-Spiral messenger, humanity would've either been locked in an eternal battle with no possibility to win, or just plain dead.
  • I keep seeing references to something called 'Chouginga Gurren Lagann', but there's nothing by that name in the show. Did you guys all watch a different version to me?
    • "Chouginga Gurren Lagann" is the Japanese name for the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann (as "chou" is the Japanese word for "super" as shown by the Chou Tengen Toppa Giga Drill Breaker).
  • If beastmen are supposed to be sterile and incapable of reproduction, then how did Viral have a child? I assume that it was just because it was an alternate universe in the labyrinth, but this still bothers me.
    • Because it was in an alternate universe. In the main one, since Viral gained the ability to produce Spiral Energy he could theoretically have a child if he found a beastwoman that could do the same.
  • This may be a bit pedantic, but it seems that the character's surnames correspond to what village they are from - for example, Yoko, Leeron, and Dayakka are all named "Littner", despite not being related. Why, then, does absolutely no one refer to Simon and Kamina as "Simon/Kamina Jihaa"?
    • People say that Yoko's last name is "Littner" because that is what she was called in the parallel world. Really, everything else outside of that is just the fandom being strange. I've never really seen the point in it myself. As for Simon and Kamina, Simon is Simon the Digger and Kamina is too awesome for a last name.
    • Mister Manabe from Gainax was asked on his twitter whether Yoko's last name was spelled Littner or Ritona. His answer was: neither, the title 'Littner' is exclusively used by the bounty hounter Yoko from ep 26. Yoko is just 'Yoko' in every character chart, unlike on all the wiki/fan pages I've seen. Also the concept of a last name isn't neceserly familiar to the Jeeha village, considering that it doesn't even recognize age!
      • Word of God, there we go. I still like my theory that Kamina is too awesome for a last name and Simon is still Simon the Digger. I wonder if Nia had lived past the ending if she would have gone from "Nia Tepplin" to "Nia the Gardener" considering her life goal...
  • Like a lot of people, the whole thing with Nia's death bothered me, although for a completely different reason. I can fully understand that bringing Nia back would be a betrayal of Simons principals, make it where everyone else would have to be brought back, and most likely lead to the Spiral Nemisis. What bothers me is the fact that for the week between defeating the Anit-Spiral and the wedding, no one tried anything to attempt to convert Nia back into a Spiral being or find a way to help her live. You can't say that it's because they didn't know as Simon points out that they knew all along that it would happen. I recall reading either on here or the Fridge Brilliance page that it was Nia's choice to die [2] but I have to say that that would be a bigger piece of crap than the boss from Conkers Bad Fur Day. Why would Nia choose to die? She loved Simon, and wanted to be with him. If her death would have ended up helping people like with Lordgenomes, then it would make sense that she would accept death, but nobody gained anything from it. The fact that she would just come to terms with it and accept it is completely OOC and goes against the shows most basic principal of if you don't like something in life, you have to make an effort to change it. Unlike all the other deaths, hers served absolutely no purpose other than to show us that life sucks and we should just accept it (once again, completely ignoring the shows basic principal.)
    • Why didn't they try to change her back? Well, I would say "It couldn't be done" but "Go beyond the impossible". Then again, Simon isn't God so maybe it literally couldn't be done. He can't do everything after all. Also, it was only in the movie that everyone knew her fate. In the anime, only Nia and Simon did. Who know? Maybe he did try something but couldn't change it. Surely they did something other than have sex. Also, Nia's death wasn't entirely pointless. If she wasn't the Anti-Spiral Messenger than they wouldn't have been able to find the Anti-Spiral home world. If the Anti-Spiral King died, then so would she. Think of the Anti-Spirals as a computer or car. If you take out the motherboard or battery, then the rest of it won't work. The Anti-Spiral King was the motherboard/battery so with him out of the picture Nia died. I don't think I explained myself very well but I hoped it made sense to you.
      • Maybe if they said that they tried something to fix her, I could understand, but there is no mention of that anywhere. Unlike every other cause of death in the series she didn't: get in the way of, slow down, or stop an enemy. The act of her dying didn't accomplish anything, the cause of the death did but not the death itself. That's why I say that the death is completely pointless, because they didn't do anything to try and prevent it (or if they did, made no mention of it.)
    • Why is it that when the Anit-Spiral is destroyed, Nia dies? Sure, she's connected to them, but that doesn't mean that she would just fade out of existence if someone pulled the plug and even if she would, her dress should have stayed behind.
      • In the dub, it's explained that she's an Anti-Spiral program running on human DNA.
        • I don’t buy that there was no way to prevent her death. Ignoring the fact that we have never seen something Spiral Energy can’t do, the show itself already created a precedent for stopping her death. The battery and motherboard analogies fail because Nia was still able to hold on for a week through sheer force of will. A computer won’t work at all without a motherboard and any thing that needs a battery and does not have another power source will instantly die. Nia survives proving she is capable of being her own power source. Since this done by her force of will she is most likely using Spiral Energy to survive. If we had to go with the analogy this leaves plenty of time for a new battery to replace the old one. I don’t see how Simon with his uber levels of Spiral Power cannot act as a replacement or completely change her DNA to a normal human. I can understand why they ended it how they did and I am not mad about it but people need to stop acting like there is no other possible ending other than resurrection and breaking the show’s messages because that is simply not true.
  • We know that the series mentions only Lordgenome's daughters, but is there any reason other than Law of Conservation of Detail and plot-archetypal (the saving the princess issue) to not mention Lordgenome's sons?
    • Nope. Not at all. Maybe Lordgenome was into Lolicon but isn't gay so no Shotacon?
    • He is very gifted in genetics, maybe he made it where all of his sperm that were carrying a Y chromosome would be non functioning.
      • While that is more likely explanation, I still prefer mine. You know what? To hell with it. Spiral Power.
  • Why is Rossiu so eager to scrap other people's Ganmen? It's not as if there's exactly a resource shortage.
    • The gunmen were considered inferior to the Grapearls. To them, it was something along the lines of "I've got this Desert Eagle .50 cal so why should I bother with this flintlock?" Really, they're lucky the mechanic who got that job (can't remember her name) decided to not to that. Otherwise they'd have been screwed. Now that I think about it, maybe Rossiu knew she wouldn't scrap them which is exactly why he gave her that job. Maybe Rossiu is more of a Badass, Crazy Prepared Chessmaster then we think.
      • That would be Leite you're thinking of.
      • Thank you. I remembered the face but only had a vague remembrance of her name.
    • Did he actually scrap the Gurren Lagann in episode 19? If he did, then Leite is one talented mechanic.
    • He's so eager to scrap everything because all the Ganmen, being built for devastating, awesome all-out attack, represented a bygone age (and the Grapearls were explicitly only for defense). It was a symbolic/political thing more than an economic one. Also, I'm pretty sure this is spelled out at some point.
  • Why is Kamina everyone's favorite character? Was he designed to be the fan favorite or do people cling to the badass? He's my favorite, too. I was just wondering.
    • Memetic mutation does this sort of thing. Or perhaps his fans are just the most vocal (this troper actually prefers Simon and Viral over Kamina, who is third in my personal list),
  • Speaking of scrapping the Gunmen... how come the main team's were the only ones remaining after the time skip? We see dozens joining in during the battle of Teppelin, but only the core team has their bots seven years later. The only explanations I can think of are that they were all destroyed at Teppelin or that Rossiu managed to scrap all but the main team's, both of which are just too contrived of coincidences. Plus the battles with the Anti-Spirals would have been a lot easier if they had had more Gunmen instead of just Grapearls which basically exist to be cannon fodder. It's outright stated that Super Galaxy Dai-Gurren has a ridiculously fast production rate, so imagine if they'd gone in with dozens of Space Gunmen instead of, what, six?
    • All of the ones that came for the Battle of Teppelin were destroyed. At least all of the ones that were allied with the Dai-Gurren Dan anyway. As for the rest, they were probably recycled into buildings and transportation.
  • Why do people blame Yoko for Kamina and Kittan's deaths, but not notice that anytime two characters kiss, one of them dies soon afterwards?
    • Well, she was partially responsible for Kamina's. After all, if she hadn't kissed him then Simon would have been able to focus and Kamina probably wouldn't have died. I haven't heard of anyone blaming her for Kittan's death. They do notice, it's just that it happens with Yoko twice so she gets the Fan Nickname Doom Bitch. With Nia Tepplin, it wasn't an awesome death and it raised to many people's "BULLSHIT!!!" flags for them to care.
  • Probably one that no-one else cares about... but what the hell is the deal with the King Kittan Deluxe combination? It's always bugged me that Kiyal's gunmen pretty much gets demoted to.... a shield and lance. What the heck? Am I missing something or is that lame? Yay I get to sit on my thumb and be WIELDED.
    • There really isn't an explanation for that one. Especially since it doesn't seem to make the mecha more powerful. Rule of Cool maybe?
  • How the hell are people able to conjure up this spiral power to do all the stuff they do in the show? Yes, it's there in their DNA, but I haven't found any explanation on how they can harness and control it. And how can Viral use spiral power when it's made clear that Beastmen can't use it? And unless I just answered my own question, how can the Anti-Spiral match up against Team Gurren in the final fight if it considers spiral power bad and refuses to use it? Saying that "they can just do it" or "hotbloodedness" or "going beyond impossible" or "kick logic and reason to the curb" is not what I call a satisfying answer. So if there is an explanation for this, please tell me.
    • Asking how they can use Spiral Power is like asking how mages can use magic. They just can. As for the Anti-Spirals, they were Well Intentioned Extremists. While they didn't what to use Spiral Power, if it was needed to stop the Spirals then they would use it.
      • So in other words, "It's magic; I don't have to explain it."
      • I'm sorry but there is simply no other way to explain it. The show describes it has evolutionary power or something. Spiral Power is essentially mana that is called forth and given form by hotblodedness. Neither the show nor the movies offer any explanation other than what I've told you and I don't think it needs one. Also, there are a few works that have mana and magic that are simply there from the beginning and offering no explanation as to where it came from. It's just there.
      • The person didn't ask where it came from. He/she asked how is it harnessed and controlled. There are few works that explain how someone can harness and control magic, but TTGL doesn't offer such explanation. And because of that, it leads to such questions being asked.
      • Oh. Well, that's really the only one that can be given in this instance. Well, either that or sheer hotbloodedness, willpower, and the desire to move forward in life.
  • For the entire 5 seconds that Simon and Nia were married, what was Nia's last name? Was it Nia The Digger? Or instead, did Simon become Simon Tepplin? Or neither of these?
    • We don't know simply because we don't know their culture. Normally, since Nia is royalty and Simon isn't, Simon would take Nia's family name. However, Nia being royalty didn't matter then so it's hard to say.
    • My money's on just Nia. Since "The Digger" isn't really Simon's last name... Technically, it's Jiha. But he and Kamina seem to have dropped that, so his name is just Simon. Simon and Nia. Or how about Nia The freaking Queen of Earth?
  • This isn't nearly as important or pressing as all the other questions here, and if it's already been brought up, I'm sorry, but after Nia refused Simon's proposal the first time, why was she still wearing the ring anyway when she talked to Kiyoh and Kiyal?
    • She didn't understand the human customs and misinterpreted what Simon said. She was still wearing the ring because, well, it was a nice looking ring.
  • Alright, so the Spiral King is a Well-Intentioned Extremist. And Fridge Brilliance suggests the reason he discards his children is because they could become the Anti-Spiral's messengers. In that case, why bother with the kids? Has he become as cold as the Anti-Spirals? Does he just need to have sex?
    • They said he was just bored. So... yeah, I guess he does just need to have sex. Which is further supported in his fight with Simon, because he says he allowed them to get as far as they did just because he was bored.
  • As a child, Genome looked much like Nia, and would've had hair like her's. His hair has now become black. Explain.
    • Plastic surgery? Or just artistic license? I'm just as clueless as you are.
      • Spiral hair dye?
    • The usual rule for anime is that they all have black hair, despite what we see. The colourful hair is so we have an easier time telling them apart.
  • Okay, maybe Simon had the mental capability to not be too fazed by Nia's death, but what could he possibly gain by leaving his friends for the next twenty years?
    • I figured that he didn't want them to grow too dependent on him.
  • So, What happened in the ending again? Why did Simon just trust the Anti-Spiral out of the blue about Spiral Nemesis? There's really isn't any conclusive proof that Spiral Nemesis really exists, or if the Anti-Spiral is just insane, We are never told anything. If reviving the dead with Spiral Power is not okay, then why is going out into space with more Ganmen okay? what if they get into another fight and have to use full-strength Spiral Power again?
    • The Spiral Nemesis is bound to happen when you get spiral power usage + time. Simon was setting an example; you bring one person back from the dead, then not bringing others back from the dead is unfair.
  • Why is it that everybody's problem with Nia's death either is or is interpreted as that it couldn't be undone? I can understand a problem with No Ontological Inertia, (That bugs me as well) but everybody's focused on the "can't undo it" part.
  1. ↑ A superiority complex is not feeling superior to someone else, it's feeling inferior to someone/everyone else and asserting yourself as superior to them to compensate.
  2. ↑ similar to the events with Neji's father in Naruto making it the first real choice in her life
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