< Tales of Symphonia

Tales of Symphonia/WMG


Both soul gems and Exspheres hold the consciousness/souls of people. Both of them can turn their users in to monsters/witches if untreated. Both of them provide power boosts to their users.

Colette and Zelos are both descended from Mithos

The ideal vessel for Martel is supposed to be someone with her same mana signature. Who better to begin breeding someone like that other than her brother, her closest living genetic match? Plus Colette and Mithos look like they could be twins.

  • Note that Mithos' Yggdrasil form very much resembles a male version of Martel with Mithos' coloring (blond hair and blue eyes); while the age-up is intentional to portray the leader of Cruxis, it's likely that the resemblance is just genetics at work. If so, that would simply mean that magic/mana is connected to genetics, and that in breeding appropriate Chosen Cruxis has simply reproduced the DNA sequence found in the Yggdrasil siblings.

Luna and Aska are married, and will soon get a divorce

In Tales of Symphonia, they share the title of "summon spirit of light", something which is likely the summon equivalent of being married. However, there seems to be trouble in paradise- Aska is something of a deadbeat husband, spending all of his time flying around (joyriding?) rather than doing his job- he doesn't even come when Summon: Light is used. Luna is clearly stressed out about this, and as such is acting sorta emotionless. At some point in the next 4000 years they get a divorce, with Luna becoming the Summon Spirit of the Moon, and getting a lot more chipper. This is why Aska is doing his job and the two have nothing to do with one another by the time of Phantasia.

  • Wut? The only married Summon Spirit who's married is Ratatosk. And he's literally married. To his fangirl.
    • Ah, but do you know this for sure? Does it actually say anywhere in game that no summon spirit is married? And remember, sharing a title may be their equivalent of marriage, which is why Ratatosk didn't get married until he became human(-ish).
      • But this would mean that Ratatosk itself is married to Marta.
        • Technically, it is. Will be. Whatever. Ratatosk is an alternate personality of Emil. Emil WILL marry Marta, whether he wants to or not. Ergo, his split personality Ratatosk will also marry her by proxy.
        • But Ratatosk already has a daughter. Her name's Norn.
          • I doubt this means anything. According to Sheena spirits don't actually have gender so it doesn't seem likely that they need help from another spirit to reproduce if that's even something they normally do. And at the time Ratatosk's physical form was a giant tree, and Norn's tree was a cutting. I doubt that after 10,000 years Marta's going to make a big deal about his "illegitimate daughter". But....if Norn is his daughter, does that make Martel his daughter too in a way, since she was fused to the Great Seed?
        • Except Ratatosk separated from Emil in the game's true ending.
          • Only technically. While the minds may be in separate bodies, they still share a soul, and "Emil" is still an alternate personality of Ratatosk. Presumably, the part of Ratatosk that still thinks of itself as Ratatosk could hijack Emil's body if he wanted to (it is his power animating it, after all). Even if it couldn't, the part that calls itself Emil is still Ratatosk, just a part of Ratatosk that thinks of itself as Emil.
            • I was under the impression that they were truly separated...that Ratatosk let some of his power permanently leave him to turn the human meat puppet he'd been using into a real boy, complete with the "Emil" personality. Making Emil mk. II effectively his son in a bizzare, creepy sort of way.
              • Even if he lent it to Emil on a permanent basis, the power is still fundamentally Ratatosk's, and Ratatosk can take it (and the "Emil" soul) back into himself if he feels dickish enough. Its like Kami and Piccolo- two separate bodies and minds, with their own abilities, personalities, and energy reserves, but one soul, one life force, and in this case, one summon spirit. If Ratatosk made a Pact, the summoning would probably drag Emil along, for example, since he's still animated by Ratatosk.

Colette and Zelos are extremely inbred

Which is why Colette is a clumsy moron and Zelos is a horny moron suffering from depression. They were specifically bred to have a specific mana signature, not for brains. And, as any dog breeder or chocobo breeder will tell you, if you're breeding for a specific trait (and, assuming that mana signatures are like fingerprints, it is really specific), you will be having cousins, siblings parents-and-children, and so on marry, very often. Given that the breeding has been going on for 4,000 years, its amazing that they're as viable as they are.

  • Similar to the above case, Zelos uses Obfuscating Stupidity. It takes at least some brain power to play triple agent. That said, everything else holds.
    • Zelos is actually only second in the party at observation skills, after Raine and probably before or tied with Regal, and fourth in terms of sheer intelligence. He hides it and he's lazy, but he's really freaking smart.
  • Except nothing holds. There is a severe lack of evidence to prove this, and in all, this is capable of holding as much water as Luke (TotA) + Tear (TotA) = Lorelei (Pokémon)
    • So, if inbreeding was NOT done, how do you explain that they were successfully bred for what basically amounts to a specific fingerprint?
    • It's not required for it to have been done- it doesn't require an explanation. And like I said earlier, the lack of evidence works hard against you.
      • Tell you what. You can breed a dog with a pre-specified DNA pattern, using no relatives of the dog you're trying to recreate and no close relatives being bred, and then we'll talk.
      • Fine. Give me 4000 years, and I'll have it done.
  • All things aside- there actually is in-game counter-evidence:
    • 1. Incest has bad effects. It's a fair assumption, Mithos, being as smart as he is, knows this.
    • 2. Mithos is obsessed with Martel. This is obvious.
    • 3. Yes, Mithos is insane and doesn't care about the chosen. However, he DOES care about Martel. And he's completely aware that the body may have some effect on his sister once she's resurrected (hence, his false-founded lamentations when he does succeed). He isn't going to intentionally stick his sister in some ****ed up body-- and above that, not one that's ****ed up directly by his guiding hand- true he does put the Chosen through hell before she gets to him, but there's Kratos, who's guarding the Chosen, and given the nature of Exspheres, it HAS to be done, and in a way that's not to obvious that Cruxis = Desians.
      • Now, I do see someone having to say "What about Zelos?"- Zelos wouldn't be one to be used, he'd either: Never get the oracle, as his only point is to be a father to the next Chosen, which considering the time (800 years is "a little too long") Mithos has waited, he wouldn't exactly mind, with the next Chosen what, twenty years away? Or, less likely, there'd be a nifty little order given out to the Desians that would be kicking Tethe'alla's ass if Zelos would have to go on the journey: Eliminate the Chosen, given how Rodyle was able to trick Magnius into attempting to do so directly, and knowing that the Desians know about the chosen's role, "Eliminate the Chosen" is a real order. Zelos would die long before he ever got a chance.


Ratatosk retired relatively soon after we last see him

The reason he was needed in Dawn of a New World was because Martel was extremely weak due to Yggdrasil being a sapling- she didn't yet have enough strength to be the core of the Centurion-based planetary mana distribution system, and not nearly enough power to keep the Ginunggagap closed.

  • We know that four thousand years later, Yggdrasil is fully grown.
  • What must have happened- at some point in the interim, when Yggdrasil was big enough, he trained Martel in how to do the whole "summon spirit of the Tree" gig, transfering control of the mana distribution system and Ginunggagap to her, then going off somewhere- perhaps dispersing into mana, in effect dying. This is why he is nowhere to be seen in Phantasia.
  • Also note, the Phantasia crew sneaks in through a crack in the seal on the Daemonium- if Ratatosk was still in charge of the seal, you know he'd step in to stop the morons from making a pact with demons that would only try to manipulate them (although any manipulations they tried failed in the end, Ratatosk would have no way of knowing that when they went in).
  • Unless he made a pact with Dhaos. Which makes sense considering Dhaos has a monster army and was wanting to stop mana cannons.
    • Nah, then he'd have more reason to show up when Cless and co. went through a crack in his barrier.
      • Ratatosk seals Niflheim, no where is it said that the Daemonium and Niflheim are the same.
      • Two known extradimensional demonic incursions, with plenty of time inbetween for names involved to change. Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation is the best, and the simplest explanation here is that there's only one invading hellscape which changed its name at some point.
  • Alternately he might have been forced into that hibernation state that the spirits seem to do so often in Tales games, and the reason his barrier is failing is because of this and the general decrease in mana during the time periods Phantasia takes place in. Or maybe his seal is only for a large dimensional gap in that particular spot, the gaps in Phantasia are not in the same location.

Regal is Batman

Do I really need to explain this one?

  • Yes.
    • Head of a major company? Check. Demonstrated mastery of incredible martial arts? Check. Moral compunction against taking lives? Check. Dark and Troubled Past? Check. Fights evil? Check.
      • But he wouldn't use a bat as a symbol, he'd have his own superhero title, like... "The Ominous Shackle".
      • Or El Presidente.
        • This troper laughed way too hard at the above name.

Dhaos, the Big Bad of Tales of Phantasia, is really Yuan.

Going solely by the events of the games and OVAs, and ignoring the various manga and novel adaptations, it's possible. Yuan stayed behind to help the Kharlan Tree grow, but after it and Martel were able to sustain themselves, he had nothing to do. So, he decided to join Kratos and the rest of the "angels" on Derris-Kharlan. Eventually, the comet started to lose its mana. Yuan had spent a couple hundred years watching over Aselia's mana tree and knew all about it, so he was the one sent to retrieve a seed. Fearing he would be recognized a hero of the Kharlan War, he adopted a new identiy, Dhaos. However, upon returning to Aselia, he discovered what humans had done with Magitechnology over the years that he'd been away, and decided to play the "demon lord" role to prevent humans from destroying the planet that he had worked to save long ago. 4000 years pass between the games, and Derris-Kharlan comes close to Aselia every 500 years, so he would've had 6 opportunities to go there (this excludes the first pass where Kratos leaves, and the final pass at the 4000-year mark). Neither game ever says how long it takes for a mana tree to grow, but it is fully grown by Tales of Phantasia. Cruxis Crystals allow people to live forever without aging, and Mithos showed that it was also possible to use them to alter a person's appearance. (Also, Yuan's Japanese voice actor in both the game and OVA is the same as Dhaos's in the Tales of Phantasia OVA.) In the Tales of Phantasia OVA especially, Dhaos seems to have some sort of emotional connection with Martel and the Kharlan Tree (including helping Mint heal it), which would make sense if he's actually Yuan, since he would have watched over Martel until she was strong enough to take care of the tree on her own.

  • If people recognized him, wouldn't it be better to say "You know I helped save the world years ago? Trust me, a mana cannon is a stupid idea"? Granted, Symphonia had many an idiot plot, but Yuan was not involved in them.
  • Ditto. Nobody knows better than Yuan that "playing at being a Demon Lord" is a good way to make people waste MORE mana, not less.
    • Not even elves can live for 8000 years, so if he said who he really was, people would likely either think he was insane and not believe him, or think he was some kind of ghost/monster/hallucination/etc.
  • Can't really be helped considering there was a catastrophe that occured in the world between the times of Symphonia and Phantasia. Remember how in Phantasia's time there is this big underwater magitek-powered city named Thor? It became like that because a huge comet that impacted the world. It's not far removed to consider that this catastrophe not only erased all prior history, but also reset the technology level of the world. Remember, not only was Thor a fully magitek-city, it also had a working Time Machine. They had practically perfected magitechnology in the 2000 years or so after Lloyd's time.
    • History and technology may have been damaged, but not destroyed. Enough records were left behind to identify and locate summon spirits (except poor Celsius), rebuild the mana cannon (for like the third time), build new rheards/techbirds..

Alternately, Dhaos is actually Mithos' reincarnation.

Before you look askance, recall that this is practically an Epilectic Tree and think about it for a second.

  • Mithos is frozen in his child form, but assuming his Yggdrasil form is just an aged-up version of his true form (which seems to be the case), if he hadn't stopped aging he'd have grown up to be a tall fair-skinned blond with blue eyes. The physical description matches that of Dhaos give-or-take a few years, as Dhaos in ToP looks older than Yggdrasil/Mithos, who looks to have chosen an age about that of Martel's when she died. (No surprise, the guy's obsessed.)
  • Going further on appearance, Dhaos' Plume form bears a distinct resemblance to both Yggdrasil [dead link] (white full-body suit, pastel wings of light, long blond hair) and Mithos' Avenger mode (wings appear a closer match to Dhaos' in color and way they 'connect' to the body) - All three forms are also capable of flight with the wings.
  • Both Mithos and Dhaos use a wide variety of powerful physical and magical multi-element attacks, with their signature moves involving light/lasers; additionally, the PS2 ToS has Yggdrasil use the Yggdrasil Laser, a clear reference to the Dhaos Laser used by the character of the same name. As well, Mitho's final form bears at least a passing resemblance to Dhaos' Phaser form, allowing for stylistic differences and the fact they're two different people (despite one being the reincarnation of the other, they're not clones).
  • Dhaos is referred to as a feared "Ancient King," which sounds like a reasonable way people might refer to Mithos/Yggdrasil once his true identity or at least his deeds ("Stop fighting because this guy we know caused it mostly!") became known, and given the span of time assumed to pass between Symphonia and Phantasia. Mithos-as-Yggdrasil certainly caused havoc aplenty, and the loss of the Mithos Hero figure - central to the mythology - seems to have contributed to the downfall of the Church of Martel, which by the time of Dawn of a New World just two years later is teetering on the edge of obsolescence after having been the primary religion for roughly 4,000 years. That said, the existence of the Church in Phantasia is likely a renewed religion, more of a veneration of Martel-the-spirit-who-protects-the-Great Tree.
  • Dhaos has a very strong attachment to Martel and the Yggdrasil tree, even outside of simply needing it to save his homeland; Martel mentions in ToP that a 'man with golden hair watched over her as she slept,' and the wording indicates that it was more personal than simply posting a guard or keeping watch to make sure no-one ruins your investment. Mithos, of course, had a very strong attachment to Martel, and Martel's words as the Mana of the tree in ToS - "You must provide the tree with love and adoration. As long as those conditions are met, I shall always protect the sibling." - are reflective of the way Martel cared for her younger brother, unintentionally setting off the entire chain of events. By the time of Phantasia the Tree has grown up and Martel is still there, but perhaps her subsuming into the spirits of multiple spirits has dimmed her memory. (Clearly she can't have forgotten everything, still identifying as Martel in Phantasia, though possibly some recollection could have returned over the years.)
  • During the Symphonia endgame, Mithos says: "... If there is no place where I can live, and if I’ve been denied my Age of Lifeless Beings, then the only thing left for me is to build a new world on Derris-Kharlan. A world just for my sister and me!" We've established that Derris-Karhlan is essentially a really big comet or meteor that brought both the elves and the Tree, and is still spaceworthy by the end of Symphonia; it's not that unthinkable that the remaining half-elves, once gathered on Derris-Karhlan, would leave the old planet behind, so that by the time Dhaos appears it may as well have been an entirely different planet.
  • Mithos also said: "... I wanted my own world, so I don’t regret my choice." Assuming reincarnation as one of the half-elves on the then-spaceborne Derris-Kharlan, and taking into account the references to Dhaos being some kind of royalty (Ancient/Demon King and the info for the Dhaos costume in Narikiri), it may well be that Mithos was indeed reborn to lead/rule over the 'planet' of Derris-Kharlan and its population.
  • Mithos' final words: "I would make the same choice all over again. I will continue to choose this path!" Again, reincarnation: While his physical body and presence was obviously destroyed when they shattered his Cruxis Crystal, the law of drama states that a sufficiently important/strong-willed person can overcome such petty things as dissolution; perhaps it merely freed his soul to move along in the cycle of life and death? If he indeed was reincarnated, wouldn't he again try to reunite with Martel, even if under different circumstances and possibly with muddled memories? Yes, yes he would.
  • Dhaos restrains himself from fighting the heroes when given a chance due to possible damage to the Tree, which - while practical - is also somewhat odd given that apparently his homeland really needs that Tree, yet he's dawdling for some reason. When Dhaos does fight the heroes in the final battle, he's defeated by the Eternal Sword (oh, irony!) and achieves his angelic form 'with the blessing of Derris-Karhlan's gods'; that form just happens to be near-identical to those of the angels formed by the Cruxis Crystals.
  • Following his death and defeat, the cycle is seemingly completed once more: A quest revolving around the destruction of magiteck to funnel mana back into the Tree, a quest for the Great Seed that ultimately fails. But this time, Dhaos succeeds: Martel creates a new Seed and incorporates her spirit and Dhaos' body into the result, sending it spaceward and presumably towards Derris-Karhlan. This time, Mithos/Yggdrasil/Dhaos won't need to repeat the cycle of incarnation, since he's gotten everything he wanted (before he snapped), if not exactly how it was expected to happen. The incarnation would also explain how anyone could live that long, death aside-- 8,000+ years must be insane even for a full elf, but it's a non-factor here because it's not as if Mithos lived all the way through those 8,000+ years straight.
  • Reincarnation is a possibility thanks to the events of Tales of Phantasia: Narikiri Dungeon, which stars a pair of children from Derris-Karhlan who died during the events that sapped their planet's supply of mana, then were reincarnated with the aid of Norn (a powerful spirit from their world). They're even re-reincarnated at the very end of the game, to live happy lives without the internal conflict they suffered before; it's certainly plausible that someone like Mithos, who died at the height of his power and before the fledgling spirit, might have been reincarnated in a similar way. Not as spectacularly perhaps (no pillar of light, ect, possibly because Martel was yet fairly weak), but enough to send him into another life. The similarities between the reborn include being exceptionally powerful, having a great destiny, having been people of significance/importance (if not necessarily rank) and destruction in their past life, and failing to understand the emotions of humans/mortals. It also explains why Dhaos was neutral re: Aselia until he 'heard his inner voice tell him to destroy the users of magitechnology'; coming into contact with the site of his past death and the focal point of his past life shook loose some memories of his life as Mithos (or at least feelings if not memories) that spurred such a vehement reaction.


Altessa is a girl.

Dwarves aren't the same as humans; who says that their women can't have beards and deep voices? Plus, Altessa

  • Out of All the Crack theroies I've heard regarding this game- this is by far the crackiest... wait no it's the inbreeding one- that one is on crack, and counterevidenced (yet Cyllya supported it?! What the ****?!). This one is just... *Facepalm*
    • You should probably move most of that response about four entries up.
    • Female dwarves looking male, acting male, and having beards is far from crack. It's canon for both Discworld and the Lord of the Rings movies.

Martel never revived during the endgame of ToS.

The person speaking was Colette, attempting to convince Mithos to put an end to his plans by using the persona of Mithos' beloved sister. Martel's soul had either escaped or was too dormant to revive, having lost most of its personality and thus allowing Colette to puppet the body even after the transfer was supposedly completed. This is why, after 'Martel' becomes the Tree, it denies being Martel: Martel-the-woman had ceased existing long ago, probably driven catatonic after four thousand years of being unable to speak or move.

  • But a Z skit has her talking to Raine about Martel's memories that she picked up during the merge. She has no reason to lie to Raine about that.
    • Well, it's theoretically possible that Martel's consciousness lingered, allowing Colette to learn Martel's residual thoughts and figure out that she probably wouldn't have approved of Mithos' actions/taken the chance to try and stop the whole mess before it gets worse. That seems unnecessarily complicated, though.

== Regal is an alternate universe heroic verson of Geese Howard ==. They're both rich, have huge skyscrapers and fight with their limbs rather than weapons.

== Emil's body is eventually used to create Rocky ==. In addition to Rocky looking like a 10-15 years older, beefier Emil, it's worth noting the Knight of Ratatosk always seemed to be at the start of a pretty big downer.

Zelos is the Queen(King?) Carrier and everyone claws out their throat fromHinamizawa Syndrome in every storyline in which you kill Zelos

The group spreads the Parasite to all inhabitants of Symphonia though their travels, this would also explain why there is no sequel in which Zelos is dead.

The Church of Martel falls out of existence for a millenium or two

As pointed out in Dawn of a New World, its purpose for existence is gone, so its only reasonable that it falls into unpopularity, and becomes a dead religion. However, it exists 4000 years later, in Phantasia? How is this possible? Simple- once Yggdrasil grows large enough, Martel will be a powerful summon spirit on par with Ratatosk- perhaps greater, since she'll have an active tree fueling her. Once that happens, its entirely possible that, as the personification of the giver of life, a new church springs up around her, possibly as a resurrection of the old church. The time period of dormancy is unknown, as we don't know the life cycle of Mana Trees.

Sheena is Regal and Alicia's Daughter

Rich Noble dating a commoner bad? If there's a bastard coming, someone'd really want the evidence to disappear. That one servant (I can't remember his name, if anyone could help me). So, she's sold off under the table. The baby's allowed to be born in hopes they'll get another subject, but they can't use her. Whoever was supposed to get rid of her threw her into the Gaoracchia forest, figuring that would suffice. As luck would have it, someone from Mizuho found her. Regal never knew about any of it (probably for the best, the last thing he needed was more angst), and Sheena doesn't really care who her biological parents were. I know this probably doesn't fit into the (rather confusing) timeline, but it was too good to ignore.

  • Actually, this turns more Squick if you consider that Alicia is Presea's younger sister and Presea was only 12 when the Cruxis Crystal was applied. So, apparently, Regal is a pedophile who managed to knock up a, perhaps, 10 year old girl and managed to hide it from everyone and still manage to uphold a respectable position in his firm?
  • Unless Regal and Alicia have elvish blood in them, not likely. The reason Sheena can summon spirits has something to do with having a little bit of elvish blood in her.
    • Actually, not so. In Tales of Phantasia, the whole point of summoning is to allow pure humans to use magic. That would be a useless strategy if you had to be part elf to summon.
      • In Sheena's Flanoir scene, she actually implies that many people are at least some small part elf, as elvish blood is required to do any magic at all. People with more of it can do better magic, though. It seems to be the case that Regal does have some elvish blood.
      • Except Sheena's method of making pacts is in some ways the total opposite of Claus'. He needed the pact rings to be able to summon. Sheena makes the pacts under her own power with the rings just being an extra bonus.
  • Also, even if Regal knocked up the preteen Alicia and she became pregnant, chances are he would notice the growing bulge of pregancy. Regal would definitely want to know what happened to the child. And as this is Regal, the man who was more interested in his love than company image and is still angsting about it years later, it seems likely that he would have said something when the child disappeared and still angst about it years later to the group.
    • Regal does have a little Elvish blood, though. Doesn't he have some healing techniques? Those seem magical...
      • Apparently, healing doesn't count - several characters in Phantasia can use healing techniques even though they live at a point in time where magic is a lost art.

Genis is actually a girl

Supported by Genis's voice in TOS2, where it is quite girlish at times. She didn't want that idiotic Lloyd to fall in love with her, so she pretended to be a boy.

  • So Genis is gay for Presea? Sweet.
  • So Raine, Genis' sister (who I'd assume would know their own sibling's/foster child's sex), is in on this?
  • One thing is a bit wrong there. Genis goes in the hot spring with the guys. So either he's not a she or she's just really good at hiding her lack of male features. This would be more of a problem in DOTNW where Genis is 14 and should be displaying definite female features (namely the sudden appearance of boobs, and the lack of any facial hair). Even if neither of these tip the others off the fact that he'll eventually start looking like a woman may strike everyone as a bit odd (if your childhood friend who you were pretty sure was male suddenly started looking like a woman I'm sure you would probably end up asking a few important questions).
    • There's also the possibility that he's Transgender and that this setting is extremely accepting of this sort of thing (there might even be magical hormone replacement/SRS)

Dawn Of The New World is a Coming of Age story disguised with fantasy window dressing

Think about it. Emil starts off as a wimpy guy at the mercy of the world, like your average teenager. Richter is the guy with traits that such a person would admire: strong, assertive, and in control of his own life and actions. Marta is the Manic Pixie Dream Girl instantly falling for Emil that exists in dreams, and from her perspective, Emil is the idealized dream boy. Ratatosk is like an escapist fantasy counterpart that kicks ass in one's mind to make up for one's wimpiness in real life, and that only makes him dreamier.

All this gets deconstructed through the course of the game. The great person one looked up to turns out not to be as nice as one thought. The dream girl / boy relationship turns out to be based on idealized fabrication. The fantasy self ends up consuming the real self and impairing one's social relations. Thus, eventually Emil and Marta come to see each other and themselves for who they really are rather than what they want to be. Emil sealing away Ratatosk is a sign he is ready to stop living in dreams and face reality, and turns out to be stronger for it. The confrontation with Richter demonstrates independence and a willingness to go one's own way after being taught enough about life. Finally, the bad ending represents one's fantasies spinning out of control leading to the destruction of those one loves and the self, while the good ending demonstrates that one is ready to live a fulfilling life integrated into society. This is the meaning of "Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality."

Richter chose Brute to give Solum's core to because the latter already seemed evil.

Bald, bearded, has a British accent, and his name is Brute. Everything about the guy just screamed, "Evil Overlord!"

If another game in the Phatasia/Symphonia series gets made, it will focus on Mithos and Co.

What else would they do? There's so much they could focus on. The death of the Giant Kharlan Tree, the politics surrounding the war that caused it to whither, Mithos' rise to power, the creation of the Church of Martel... There's an ocean of vaguely described events in mentioned Symphonia to take advantage of, here!

  • Alternately, they could explore the end of the "Three Great Civilizations" mentioned in Tales of Phantasia. Why were the civilizations at war? How did they maintain their high level of technology without harming the Yggdrassil? Who were the mysterious men who appeared with the pieces of the Eternal Sword? Of course, either of these games would have the disadvantage of inevitably ending with a big downer...

The Symphonia games are in the same kind of time line as the Metal Gear Solid games

If you look at MGS1 and MGS2 compared to ToS and DotNW, this makes perfect sense.

  • Tales of Symphonia and MGS1 are both about a brown haired hero going on a mission to save the world, so far so normal, right? Hehe WRONG!
  • Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World is about a blonde haired hero with identity problems confused about his past, and it is unclear whether the hero from the first game is good or evil until the tail end of the game. Also he has a love interest who will stop him in the middle of a battle to talk about their relationship.
  • This also coincides with the above entry about the next game taking place in the past, explaining the back story of the villains from the original game.
  • It does break down somewhat in that MGS was a sequel to Metal Gear and Metal Gear II, explaining what happened after- whereas Tales of Symphonia is a prequel to Tales of Phantasia, explaining How We Got Here. It'd be a better parallel if Symphonia was the classic game, and Phantasia was the newer reboot/sequel series- but it isn't.

The Cruxis are Chinese, and their fighting style and angelic powers are based on Qigong

The Ancient Kharlan War was fought 4,000 years ago. Chinese martial arts has--in the words of Ku Fei--"4,000 years of history". One of the techniques developed during the War was the ability to slow down the body's aging process, as well as boosting their martial prowess and allowing them to use magic. (Okay, well only Kratos had to find a way to use magic, because he's human, not half-elven.) That sounds suspiciously like chi-manipulation.

Zelos wasn't intended to be a vessel for Martel.

Because despite 4000 years of eugenics, Zelos seems to share very little with Colette. He looks almost nothing like her. He can become an angel in the ending where he dies without crystalizing (though to be fair, he could simply be hiding it). On the other hand, gameplay-wise he's a Kratos clone. It could be that Mithos was setting up Sylvarant's Chosen to be Martel's vessel, while keeping Tethe'Alla's as backup in case Kratos kicks it. Kratos, being Origin's Seal and the person ensuring that the Eternal Sword stays in Mithos' hands, is as important a player as Mithos himself is. It's in Mithos' best interest that Kratos doesn't die.

  • Just because Zelos looks nothing like Collet/Martel, doesn't mean his mana signature can't fit. Or, a more insane fangirl reason, Ew! Why would Mithos be happy with his sister being in a guy's body, turning her into a Gender Bender?
    • What difference would it make to him what physical gender his sister had? He's been trying (unsuccessfully) to bring her back for 4 millennia. I imagine he'd be too thrilled that it finally worked to give a damn.
  • An interesting theory. It's possible that, Kratos back-up or not (and it's questionable if Mithos would be rational enough to consider one of the Seraphim liable for for-real death), being a working vessel for Zelos would have simply resulted in his subsequently being forced to marry appropriately and reproduce until he spawned a suitable female substitute.

Derris-Kharlan ceased to exist

Because it stopped to be inhabitable.Kratos used the fact of the comet being now a big body of mana-flame, which already incinerated anything that existed on it and turned it into a flaming rock,to finish his own ,prolonged enough ,life.He asked Lloyd to send him there ,knowing that it will make him die in instant.Of course,he never told Lloyd,and probaly no one but only Yuan knows what became of Derris-Kharlan,lying that he will continue his journey there.He could let himself die after such long time because he found his peace knowing that his son is alive and the new Tree has been planted.

  • One problem with this- Tales of Phantasia. 4000 years later, there's a "planet", named Derris-Kharlan, inhabited by Angels, which knows where the planet inhabited by humans is and about the Tree, which altogether implies that the comet continues to exist and be inhabited.
    • That and in DOTNW you can see a scene where Yuan is talking to Kratos one last time before he is too far away from Earth to send anymore transmissions.

Lloyd is more than a human

Seriously! Geneticaly, being born to Anna - Angelus Project test subject who already grew an exsphere and bore a child having it embed in her body, and Kratos, who is an 4000 year old 'angel' living by Cruxis Crystal... He just can't be born normal!!

  • Interesting theory, no doubt. Not much is known, after all, on the effects that children of test subjects endure. Which makes me ponder those effects and if some children are born in the Human Ranches... anyway, I'm digressing. I can't remember where exactly it was ingame, but angels are really more mutant half-elves or humans--think Jackalope--than a whole different species. But that still means it's possible it had some effect on him. After all, he tapped into some form of 'angel power' without having to deal with the burden of mutation that others went through, since it's heavily hinted he has a Cruxis Crystal instead of your regular ol' Exsphere. So, uh, yeah, I'm not coherent, but you've got this Troper plunnied.

Lloyd is the true angel

If we take his vague genetics ,fact that he got the most different wings from any other angel and also he fits in with his character traits being very compasionate towards just anything (well,after character developement),him being The Messiah,changing people's hearts and also 'bringing the judgement upon sinners' (that is the people who deliberately hurt others),he could fit into biblical description of an angel just fine.(I would say he's something between archangel Raphael and archangel Michael).We should point out that biblical angels aren't really 'holy' and 'innocent' like those little cute cherubs which Colette was meant to represent.Angels are more virtue and they are fierce fighters of God and justice if the time calls for it.

    • Actually, most angels have different wings than others. Your lower angels, such as those on Welgaia and Remiel, have the feathered ones. Colette, Kratos, Yuan and Mithos have seem to be the typical mana wings set for the game, but then you see Zelos' when/if you fight him and they're totally different. But that's kinda explained by Yggdrasil; angels can change their appearence. I'm guessing wings count there, too. Lloyd's were possibly a symbol of his will to reach the Great Seed and stuff. Still, that's my conjecture. Otherwise, I agree with you about Lloyd being the Messiah type. Many characters change and grow by what he does and says.
    • Actually, cheribum aren't "cute", or "innocent" at all. They're the second highest order of angels, described as having four faces, those of a lion, an ox, an eagle, and a man, and are said to have many, many eyes. You're thinking putti, which are an invention of the Renaissance and responsible for the western confusion of cherubim and putti.

Kratos used a Xanatos Roulette to control the Eternal Sword

In search of a way for a human to weld the Eternal Sword,he descended to Sylvarant and found out about human ranches and their Angelus Project.Finding out that the subjects of this project are able to grow a cruxis crystal - the strongest exsphere - within their body gave him an idea that such person would be of a great use as cruxis crystals could not be made or be extracted naturaly,these were only created under strict control of Yggdrasill.Thus he snatched the subject - Anna,and ran away with her.But because she was a woman who lacked the strengh to fight,he probably hoped that at least he will try to make her get an offspring which would naturaly be compatible for equiping her special exphere.Years didn't matter for him anymore ,so he would just be there and watch over that person to guide and train.So first he decided to find her a mate.The only thing he didn't expected was,that he would be the one to fall in love with her,who he saw at first as a mean to an end,but it turned out differently.Nevertheless he became father of the child and still hoped for his son to be able to gain the power to weld the Eternal Sword.He planned to train him but we know what happened.After the apparent 'death' of his family,he gave up,but when he found out that his son is still alive,he immediately put his plan into work again - he trained and guided Lloyd,knowing that strong emotions are good for nurturing the exsphere,by betraying him he gave him the determination to become stronger.At this point Kratos started his second phase - searching for the materials to create the Eternal Ring,occasionaly encountering Lloyd and giving him clues.Well,looks like everything worked out quite well in the end.

    • However, Kratos does state that Anna was the one that enlightened him to how wrong Mithos' methods were. Before that, he was just as convinced as Mithos that this was the only way to save the worlds. Yuan also says that he changed after having a family. I agree with you on the last bit, though.


It was All Just a Dream

Tales of Symphonia never happened and it was just all a dream that Lloyd had during his classes (or maybe somewhere else).He did hear his name being called but he never got to be hit with a chalk/sponge and everything that happened he dreamed during the time he slept.

  • Probably going out on a limb here by saying all blondes are related or something. But seriously, Colette is said to have many relatives around the world, but we never meet them. And being of the Mana Lineage, I don't think it's surprising that she would marry to a someone of practically noble status.

Tales of Phantasia and Tales of the Abyss are alternate-universe sequels to Tales of Symphonia, and Tales of Vesperia was the start of it all. Also, Zelos is descended from the Children of The Full Moon

There are two main ending results to Symphonia- One where Zelos lives, and another when he dies. In Tales of the Abyss, one replica in Daath says, "...Ze...lo...s...Di...ed...", or "Zelos died", which implies that the canonical ending is the one where Zelos perishes. However, in the sequel, he's still alive and well (that is, unless he's a zombie). An obvious contradiction, correct? Wrong. When Origin aided Mithos in splitting the world in two 4,000 years prior and set up this new mana balancing system, they disrupted the very fabric of reality and time itself, causing numerous rifts in time and reality. It caused a split into two parallel universes that never touched, yet mirrored each other up to a certain point. This point is the point in which Zelos either lives or dies, as he is the key that will affect the future. In one universe, he lives on, and this ends up leading to Dawn of the New World and later Phantasia, where humanity had to start over from scratch after the Adaphagos destroyed almost everyone (More on that in Tales of Vesperia's WMG page). The time rifts also explain how Dhaos can so easily travel through time; he simply uses those rifts. Meanwhile, in the universe where Zelos dies, his status as a Child of the Full Moon in addition to his death holds back the Adaphagos and the world goes on to Tales of the Abyss's timeline. Note that this troper has never played Tales of the Abyss, and this was all though up whilst taking her evening shower.

  • That... makes a surprising amount of sense.
  • This doesn't explain is the fact that fonons have been around since "the beginning of existence", the presence of the Fonic Belt, the lack of many summon spirits, and their associated elements, as well as several other issues, including the presence of the Miasma, the world's name changes, and the lack of the Giant Tree in Alderant.

The Gentleman enemy that appears around Altamira is the Slender Man.

FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU--

Cress and Chester are the descendants of Lloyd and Collete and Emil and Marta respectively (alternatively, replace Emil and Marta with Genis and Presea).

It's just weirdly right for some reason.

  • Don't replace Emil and Marta with Genis and Presea- those two lead to Arche.

Lloyd knew about his angel wings all along on a subconscious level

The knowledge was always there, lingering at the edges of his brain for his entire life. The thought of using them just never occurred to him until he truly needed to fly.

  • Or, perhaps he had feelings similar to that of a therian, and secretly longed for wings to sprout out of his back his whole life. When he needed to fly, they manifested.
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