Devil Survivor/Headscratchers

• Wouldn't most of day 3 be avoided if MC and co just asked Midori to team up in the first place?
  • Maybe, but that's assuming they could've kept Midori reined in—considering her initial mindset, that's a big if. It takes a lot to get her to even consider other people's points of view. It'd be a full-time job keeping her from scampering off the instant you didn't live up to her standard of 'real heroes', and she'd be drawing all that hatred down on your heads from the start. Besides, they've got the whole Your Days Are Numbered issue to deal with, and aren't exactly eager to pull others into that. At least this way, she has some chance of avoiding being The Scrappy through Character Development...
    • Agreed. Midori becomes completely delusional when she gets her hand on a COMP. The illusion she has is completely shattered when the very people she's trying to protect attempt to kill her. It's then, and only then, that she becomes reasonable again.
• Why did Naoya give COMPs to Gin and Keisuke? What part of his plan did they fit into exactly?
  • Given that Naoya created the Laplace Mail, he's good at predicting what people are going to do. So this troper's guess is that he expected Gin & Keisuke to do exactly what they did: Have you collect information about Aya (Gin), and help you survive (Keisuke).
• Yuzu uses "borked" at the start of day 6. Isn't she supposed to be computer illiterate?
  • It's just slang, isn't it? She already uses Leet Lingo; doesn't seem out of the question that she's heard "borked" before and picked it up. She's not describing anything beyond "Dang, it's broken, huh?"
    • Internet slang.
    • ...So? Yuzu uses the Internet; it's not unreasonable that she'd have picked that much up. Just because she's Atsuro's Watson doesn't mean she's completely incapable of using or enjoying computers. You don't have to be a Geek to use slang, right?
    • Specially since all her e-mails are in leet speak.
    • Borked isn't internet slang. It's a generic slang for when someone messes up really bad.
• What happened to Honda at the end of the game? I know what happens to him in Yuzu's route, wherein he goes insane. But what does he do in the other endings?
  • On Gin's route (and possibly others), there is a time event battle where Honda tries to break through the lockdown barricade with his demons. There seems to be a few choices you can make in this mission; I decided to attack Honda and break his COMP. This just made him run off, like most disarmed human enemies, and it's unclear what happens to him after that.
    • Isn't that the timed battle agains angels, demons or both, before fighting Belial? The one before any routes are chosen? This makes it true in all routes (if you do defeat him there and take his comp, something not needed but that makes the battle easier), meaning he gets another one in Yuzu's route - and possibly on the others too.
    • If you beat all the demons and angels, but not him then the SDF will reinforce the barricade, he runs away, and you don't see him again.
    • Actually, after the battle, I saw him talking to Loki and the two were obviously planning something, but I never found out what.
    • I saw the same thing. Sequel Hook? Maybe? We never learn if his son's death in the Escape route is canon either, but then, we don't know if any of the routes are.
    • I think that his son's death happens no matter what. He tries to go on the rampage in all routes, but only in Yuzu's route can his COMP summon when he's out.
  • In Amane's route on the 8th day in Overclocked, Honda tries to escape with a COMP with help from Susano-O and we disarm him and he escapes. You bump into him later and he reluctantly gives you advice about Cain. He then explains that his son died during the lockdown, and he's very depressed. You thank him for the info, and he just kinda walks away. That's pretty much what happens with Honda, at least in Amane's route.
• I got the Overlord/Chaos Ending, the only player character I know died was Keisuke, and my end party was Atsuro, Naoya, Kaido, and Mari. The only people I actually saw in the ending were Atsuro, Naoya, Midori, Kaido, and Yuzu (Mari is conspicuously absent, probably because it's a route she wasn't specifically meant for and it didn't make that much sense for her to be in), but would is be safe to assume the other characters all at least survived?
  • I got Overlord, saved Keisuke and got Black Frost. Mari makes a comment about how she wants to protect Tokyo in the final battle, as well as a chat with Kaido about how she wants to protect the people she loves and then has a more bland "You've really become the overlord." thing at the end, together with Black Frost who says something like "Now I get to be a powerful demon general! Hee-Ho!".
• What if someone in the lockdown happened to know smoke signals? What about flying demons, how do you prevent them from leaving the lockdown short of a giant globe?
  • Antiaircraft batteries?
    • Subtle.
  • Helicopters are mentioned at some point.
  • The Angels can fly too, and it's possible that some of the flying demons might feel happier sticking with corrupting mortals and/or waiting for their masters to show up so that they can severely outgun the angels.
  • Honda mentions wanting to fly out of the lock down using a demon, but never attempts it, probably because of the aforementioned helicopters.
• Doesn't it bother anyone that the angels said that God would only take Mankind's freedom if it failed the ordeal, yet he does the same thing when you become his messiah, only with you as a middleman?
  • That's the SMT God for you. And even then that's nicer than He usually is, since He didn't explicitly wipe out anyone not willing to follow him.
  • Another interpretation is that, when you became the Messiah, God gave you the right to rule and guide humanity. Which would mean that you went all Knight Templar on humanity instead.
  • And yet another interpretation of the ending is that humanity didn't lose it's rights to free will, but because of kind leadership, everyone pretty much universally decided to be good. The fact that actually knowing that there are demons, a hell, and a God probably made a good deal of people jump into the Good sides boat as well.
    • It seems to be more of the angels calling for a harsher line with humanity, but the game ending makes it very clear that humanity isn't acting good out of kind leadership. Humanity is acting good out of terror of what will happen if they don't.
      • It's primary reference to humanity acting out of fear is the phrase "Fear of God," or something similar, which is considered a good thing by certain Christian groups (i.e. "So-and-so is a god-fearing individual")
        • That's a distinction without a difference. SMT more or less returns to the Old Testament roots when it comes to God, with a side order of Deconstruction. The God of the Old Testament wasn't someone you obeyed just because it was the right thing to do, or even because you'd get to go to Heaven instead of Hell, but because he'd turn you into a pillar of salt for the slightest disobedience if he was in a bad mood. Even in Devil Survivor, where he's less of an outright dick, in the Lawful ending you're taking on the role of "the absolute judge of mankind's sins." That's not a sunshine and rainbows job, that's a Dark Messiah.
  • And I'll offer an additional interpretation, one which is even more confusing: God's actual opinion is never actually mentioned anywhere in the game. In fact, conversations seem to imply that it was the angels who wanted to take away Mankind's freedom, and God only set the trial up to appease the angels. By becoming the Messiah, it's not necessarily God you're aligning with, but the angels.
    • Yeah, but if the final email doesn't come from Metatron, then something ridiculous is going on, and Metatron is the Voice of God. Also, M comments on your decision, whatever it is, and holds no malice towards you if you take the King of Demons route. The angels, by contrast, do pass judgement on your decision if you try it, so M can't be speaking for the Angels in King of Demons, and therefore he isn't speaking for them in King of Saints.
• Decarabias, Oh God the Decarabias.You think you're about to wipe them, but Wham, there they go Shield All, denying your attack and netting them all extra turns!
  • Not really a Just Bugs Me so much as Demonic Spiders.
• It always bugs me that the party destroys any extra COMPs they get right from the beginning. Sure, it makes perfect sense once they're a few days in and can see how terribly COMP usage can go wrong, even by people who have the best intentions, but during the first couple of days you'd think they'd be glad to have a few extra that they could hand out to people like, say, that nice cop you run into during... I think it was the first save the citizen battle before you send him off to try and protect people for you without anything to help him stand a chance against the demons.
  • Well, yes, redistributing COMPs to people you can trust is a good idea, but remember, you have to forge your first contract by defeating the first demon the COMP summons. Not something most people would be keen on doing, and if you hand COMPs out during a combat situation, it could arguably make things worse.
  • You pick up the COMPs that lie on the ground in red squares. You pick up a couple in the first red square fight very early on: this is where you get the one that Midori swipes. I think you also get the conversation choice 'Do you have a COMP?'/'Do you want a COMP?' with Gin during Day 4. Therefore, by this point, it appears you've got a couple of spare COMPs, and you are willing to share them with any survivors who are both sane and smart (that's just Hero, Atsuro and Gin, more or less). The party destroys any extra ones they find. It's possible that demons controlled by COMPs taken from others don't obey the user (one COMP per person for example) so it's dangerous to keep them.
• Why is it an automatic game over if someone dies in the escort mission? Couldn't you just use a Recarm on them?
  • Maybe it only works within your team, since the [-COM Ps=] are assuming that people not on your team=enemies. After all, you probably wouldn't want to accidentally revive someone who wants to murder your guts.
    • In that case, why can you use the other healing skills/demon abilities on people not on your team?
• Who the hell is Metatron anyway?Did I missed something in the game?I only did Naoya's route and if I understood correctly he's the one who sends you a mail at the end ?
  • Like a lot of SMT demons, he's from Judeo-Christian mysticism, so Wikipedia is your friend on this one. Essentially, the Voice of God.
• Alright Mari, that cannot summon demons and has pitiful stats even after her Demo...er, Angelic Possession, sets off to kill Kudlak.And the MC's gang entrusts the only thing that can get him Killed Off for Real to her.Couldn't she just give the "powder" to MC?
  • For some reason that's never really explained but has to do with the mythology it is has to be Kresnik who delivers the finishing blow.
  • Pitiful stats? What version of Mari were you using? She's got more move than Yuzu and more magic than Midori. She's pretty much the best all-round caster in the game besides a specially built MC.
    • They're probably referring to Mari when she fights Kudlak, at that point her stats are pretty weak. It isn't exactly explained why she's much stronger in the routes where she joins your party.
  • Plus, at the point where she fights Kudlak, she didn't have a COMP. She gets one later on, if/when she joins up with you, but before then, she wasn't exactly in the best position to stand against demons, Kresnik or no Kresnik. Just being within range of your COMPs offers some protection, as they figured out with Haru early on, but she didn't have any experience, demons or skills of her own.
• On Day 2, right after chasing the policeman into the park, the demons are killed by Amane when she summons a Lakshmi, who the other NPCs claim "can't be a demon, it's a beautiful goddess". It's particularly jarring in NG+, as you can fuse Lakshmi by endgame, and it's not Unique, meaning you could, if you so wanted, have an entire team of Lakshmi Mons. And yet people still fear and persecute you for taming demons.
  • It helps that she's dressed like the same people that have been both telling people this would happen and (the ones not in the know AKA the lower grunts) who have also been trying to help the ordinary people with shelter at the park when not preaching to them.
• I can't take Beldr seriously because he looks like the King of All Cosmos.
  • Oh thank God, I'm not the only one. It doesn't help that he has the Digital Devil Saga manthong, too.
• How the hell are you supposed to search for images of the main character on Pixiv? The one constant tag I see on images of him is "デビルサバイバー", but that means "Devil Survivor" and doesn't necessarily refer to the protagonist. (And no, don't say Danbooru or Gelbooru. Those sites don't have as many images.)
  • That's...really the only tag you can see him in, unfortunately. You can type "shujinkou" (主人公), which is "protagonist", but that will net you all sorts of results, including the protagonists of Persona and Pokemon. You can try combining the tags together in the search bar, separating them with a space, but "デビルサバイバー" typically nets the most results. You can also find pictures on Photobucket, or look for artists on Pixiv. (seitamu and はすひこ have both drawn a lot of art of the protagonist.)
    • http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/index?tags=protagonist_
• Why is it, when Cain/Naoya continues to build up more hatred instead of reflecting on his sin, that God can't just say, "Okay, he's not learning, and is planning to create a King of Bel to declare war on me. Maybe I should just let him go on his merry way, or just let him reincarnate normally in peace like his little brother,"? Really, he's a literal database of human history right now, and he's not planning on "repenting" any time soon. Why, then, can't this God just lighten up and lessen the sentence? As has been stated, this isn't even the standard SMT Jerkass God who would screw with Cain For the Lulz. Yet he's still being punished, in the exact same way, even when Cain starts using his sentence to start a war on the heavens themselves. With his own brother.
  • Your mileage may vary, but I don't think saying 'screw it, you aren't doing what's right and are actually doing things that are worse than what you originally were punished for, so let me lessen your sentence' is a good idea. God is giving Cain/Naoya a chance at repentance which is supposed to run in parallel to how He is offering the whole of humanity a chance at repentance during the events of the game. In most of the endings bar Yuzu's and Naoya's, you wind up doing for sins not your own (i.e. making pacts with demons and causing "God's" ordeal in the first place) what Cain couldn't do for his - repenting.
  • One theory suggests that he's an Unwitting Pawn—basically, his refusal to repent reinforces the theory that Humans Are Bastards who don't deserve free will, because look at how he abuses it! He has the ability to repent, but chooses not to, instead lashing out at God. God could just erase him from existence and end the stalemate that way, but then we're firmly in Slippery Slope territory; if He can wipe out Cain, why not do the same to everyone who refuses to follow Him?
  • The theory is interesting but it begs the question: Why would He feel the need to 'prove to the universe' that humans were bastards? That doesn't seem necessary if his goal is to 'eliminate human free will', nor is it in keeping with His character. Metatron is God's agent, and Remiel is Metatron's agent. Remiel, more so than the other angels, is portrayed positively in the game and Remiel actively works towards helping humanity overcome the lockdown. Why would he do this if free will was something that humanity did not deserve? In particular, note that the angels outside of Metatron-Remiel are portrayed as high-and-mighty jerks. These angels all voted to eliminate Tokyo and remove free will the second demons began emerging thanks to the Shomonkai, but Remiel tells us that God stayed their hand. Why would He do this if He didn't want to give us a fighting chance to prove ourselves worthy of our will? Note, even in Amane's ending, no one says that free will is taken from humanity; crimes are judged, which may sound harsh at first until one remembers that governments judge crimes as well. The ending is far different from the mind-wiped humanity eternally singing songs to please the Lord in Strange Journey.
  • God may not be the one using that argument; his more Tautological Templar angels are—and as alluded to above, God can't simply smite Cain because then his more Holier Than Thou angels could argue "Well, you got rid of HIM for flouting your will; why not deal with all these other defiant mortals, too?" It may not be HIS theory that humans are all irredemnable bastards, but that of most angels...
• What do the characters fight with? I mean I know they use COM Ps to fight the demons, and that they have spells and etc, but what sort of weapons do they use when you attack physically? Fists? Or are they holding weapons we can't see? If so, what weapons? Are they like the people in Persona and just use whatever?
  • They punch demons, and perhaps Atsuro hits them with his bag. They're just that badass.
  • They could just use whatever they can get their hands on. The way MC is brandishing his MP3 player makes me think he uses it as a physical attack, but that's probably unlikely.
  • I'm sorry, are you implying that punching a demon is ridiculous in a game where you beat a boss to death by hitting it with a cell phone strap?
• In the opening for Overclocked there's a blink and you'll miss it shot of an in-game battle against Gin. Can this actually happen?
  • Yup. It happens in the original too. If you choose not to help Gin look for Aya and take Naoya's route, both Gin and Azuma will fight you in the battle against Remiel!Amane.
    • Weird, when I did Naoya's route he and Azuma didn't show up during that fight. I guess it only happens if you never open the Gin vs. Azuma fight.
  • Also, one of the final shots is a close up of a clearly insane Honda, and yet the character's involvement in each of the 8th Days is fairly minimal.
  • Possibly the one with Honda involves the way he is during Yuzu's ending when his son is revealed to be dead. Maybe he went insane from that?
  • Yes, he goes insane during the 8th Day of Yuzu's route. He decides to look for strong demons that can revive his son. He ends up getting killed by Belberith, though.
• Where the hell are Uriel/Raphael/Gabriel/Michael? It seems recently the standard Seraphim have been replaced with the newer ones. Was this intentional or...what?
  • Metatron attempts to summon them in the Overlord 8th Day. Though Abel summons Beldr, Belial, and several lesser demons to harm him enough to stop the process and force Metatron to retreat.
• Why on Earth did the Japanese government even come up with its fry 'em all plan? Not only would it be absolutely useless outside of Tokyo but in such a tech savvy part of the world it couldn't be that unlikely that someone would figure it out.