Bleach/Headscratchers/Zanpakutos

• Its stated by Isshin Kurosaki and others that the zanpaktous change their size and powers from the amount of spirit power the wielder has. Okay. Then, why can't people like Kenpachi and Soi Fon use their reiatsu to increase the effect of their zanpaktous to modify (or in Kenpachi's case make) their own Shikai and Bankai?
  • Because then, like Ichigo's first zanpaktou, the blade would be weaker and 'bloated'. Byakuya snapped his in a second.
  • What about Kenpachi? I don't think he has this problem.
    • I think Kenpachi's happy with his current zanpaktou. He wants to talk to it, not make his sword better. Remember, he finds it more enjoyable when a fight is challenging, ergo, weakening himself.
      • also they stated that Kenpachi's sword was released so he probably is stuck with it like it is
• Zanpakutos that change into new, completely different weapons when released. This isn't really a "Just Bugs Me" entry, but there's got to be some Shinigami out there who were more than a bit pissed off: "Right! For a hundred and fifty years I've trained to become stronger! Fifteen hours a day in combat! Every trick with a blade, every counter and parry ever invented hammered into the core of my being! And finally, I have learned to unseal my sword's true form..! What? A ball and chain? A F*** ING BALL AND CHAIN?! I'VE SPENT 150 F*** ING YEARS LEARNING TO USE A SWORD AND YOU TURN INTO A F*** ING BALL AND CHAIN?!"
  • Zanpakuto tend to align themselves with their user's personality. If a shinigami ends up with a ball and chain, it probably means that they're much more naturally proficient with that than a sword and will pick up how to use it much faster than it took them to master using the unreleased sword.
  • Zanpakuto are Empathic Weapons, dig? Didn't somebody on this page ask why they always seemed like a perfect weapon for its user's personality? Well, the idea is that the Zanpakuto is part of your soul. So, naturally, the Ball and Chain must be your style of fighting. Not to mention some people like Byakuya and Matsumoto don't even technically have weapons in their released states. And while using your Zanpakuto isn't necesserily instinctual, it is at least natural to you. And hey, if you don't like your Zanpakuto's release, you can be like Hisagi and keep it sealed unless you really need the extra power.
  • I think it has less to do with what a Shinigami "likes" and more with what they are naturally good at. Like for instance, you could hate baseball and love basketball, even though you do horribly at basketball and great at baseball when you play them in gym class. It's the same concept here. Even though Yumichika follows and fully believes in his squad's anti Kido philosophy, if he tried to preform some I bet he would be a natural.
    • Right. Shikai basically seems to be an amalgum of personality and natural skills. And since latent shinigami seem to have their Zanpakuto spirits from real early in life (re: Hitsugaya speaking with Hyorinmaru before becoming a shinigami), just because Yumichika later adopted the 11th squad's all-combat style to stick with Ikkaku and Kenpachi, etc. doesn't mean he was always like that. His powers let him finish fights without damaging his looks. Fits him perfectly. Bankai on the other hand, seems to reshape one's Shikai to a form better suited to employ all the massive amounts of Reiatsu one has by the time you reach Bankai level. Ichigo is the exception that prooves the rule. Everyone else's Bankai I can think of fits the theme. And to cut off any futher bugging, Ichigo started with a crapload of Reiatsu, as shown by his first Zanpakuto version, a huge (but apparently light and fluffy) sword. So, instead of needing a new form that allows him to utilize all that power (He already does that with his Getsuga and big claver), his Bankai makes his power use more efficient and focused, as shown by him keeping his Bankai since using it for Grimmjow way back. He fires Getsuga's much more frequently and stronger, and his speed is increased to the point where he can keep up with arrancar's Sonido, which is supposedly quicker than the average Shunpo.
  • Also, some of the 'mundane' swords are damn powerful. Zabimaru and Kazeshini are two good examples.
• I have two things that bug me. First, how could Aizen's Shikai work in the first place? They live in the spirit world, a place where water shouldn't even exist. Second, when did the Shinigami get bones, organs, ligaments, teeth, etc.? If I remember correctly, it was stated that they were made out of just reishi and plasma (The plasma explained why they bled when they were cut).
  • Why shouldn't water exist in the spirit realm? Every other material seems to. And besides, Aizen's Shikai doesn't need to use water. He just said that to trick people.
  • And as long as we're talking about 'Shoulds', a metal object shouldn't have a thinking consciousness inside itself and be able to hypnotise people either :P .
    • Okay, I see how he lied to them. But every other material exists because everything in the spirit world is made out of reishi. It's not the actual thing. I was confused at first about Aizen's power because it would mean that he was manipulating reishi, and not actual water in the atmosphere. Also, the zanpakutō the shinigami own are described as a manifestation of the owner's soul, so that explains why it has a thinking consciousness and probably why they have certain powers.
    • So I'm guessing no one else knows why the shinigami suddenly have bones and organs like humans then...
    • I found that strange at first too. Hollows having organs is also pretty weird. I found it really strange when Mayuri stabbed Szayel in the heart. I thought Hollow were supposed to be The Heartless? Yeah, I know that is speaking more metaphorically, I still found it odd.
    • Metaphorical heart. Also, a lot of arrancar have their holes (The gap that comes from lack of heart) in different places. Szayel's was apparent no where on his upper body, and since Arrancar are at least human/shinigami shaped, and while watching one of the latest dub episodes (What, people here don't consume as much bleach as possible?) I noticed that after getting his ass kicked by Yammy the first time, Ichigo retained his injuries even when he was back in his body. So, my guess is that since a spirit comes from the body, it is shaped like the body, even internal structure. Same goes for hollows, though they get a much weirder biology. I mean, they bleed, right?
    • They bleed because they're made out of reishi and plasma (It's a half-*** way for Kubo to have bloody fights though). And why would they need internal structure like humans if they don't DO anything like humans? They don't breathe (Which creats another problem seeing how they're shown out of breath despite not even needing air since they're SPIRITS), they don't need a heart for pumping blood since they're made of plasma, no stomach to break down food since they absorb spirit particles in order to stay alive, etc. etc. etc. They should just be empty inside seeing how they're spirits and don't function like humans. And how would pain or injuries even transfer from someone in their spirit form to their body (Or gigai)? Their body wasn't hurt in the process, and it's not like their spirit is connected to their body's nerve endings or anything. It just seems like Kubo's forgetting his own continuity with this. He has admitted to forgetting it before...
      • Actually, they do breathe. Remember on Soukyoku Hill when Renji and Ichigo were trying to protect Rukia from Aizen? Rukia freaked out because Renji was holding so tightly against her chest she was suffocating to death. The issue here is that in many cultures around the world either past or present (and even both), the idea of the other world is a reflection of the current one. That's all Soul Society is, a reflection of the human world in the sense that spirits are simply living out another life. I sometimes think people have become too bogged down in science and psuedo-science these days and have forgotten the way stories used to be told and the folklore and mythology that used to (and still does) exist. What Kubo is depicting isn't unusual or even rare. So people die in the human world and are reborn in the spirit world. They're still living a life with all that goes along with it - such as breathing, bleeding, eating, drinking, getting tired, sleeping, feeling emotion, falling in love, and then dying again. Once they die in the spirit world, they're reborn into the human world, but while the soul is the same the identity of the life is now different. At least, that's if Kubo's setting follows the Buddhist theme through to its logical conclusion.
    • Well, you could Fan Wank away the breathing hard as them trying to suck in more spirit particles. They apparently can eat normal food, as I am pretty sure I saw Yammy eating some meat, and Aizen does invite all of the Espada to drink tea with him(Might be tough for Aaroniero though). Stark also has uh...manly bits given by how Lilinette wakes him up. I really have no idea though. I think Kubo is kind of going with what he feels like.
    • It seems to me that reishi is not a separate substance, but rather a different kind of matter, kind of like matter and antimater. Because of that, reishi is actually the basic composition of all spiritual matter and forms different substances based on its composition. In the same vein, Shinigami and other spiritual entities are bodies composed of reishi, which emulates physical matter but is simply from a different base. This is explained somewhat at the beginning of the Soul Society Arc when Urahara is explaining how his senkaimon works and its function of converting physical matter into reishi so that Orihime, Chad, and Uryu can enter into Soul Society (not necessary for Ichigo, who, as a Shinigami is already a spiritual being).
      • In other words, the spirit world has spirit hydrogen and spirit oxygen, that together form spirit water.
• This makes no sense. If Hyourinmaru is supposedly the strongest ice and water elemental sword, why is Rukia's Sode no Shirayuki pwning him so badly in terms of strength? Hitsugaya was chopped in half by Halibel, while Rukia managed to kill Aaroniero all by herself using the third dance. This REALLY bugs me.
  • Halibel is a lot tougher than Aaroniero (who, going by recent revelations, was technically the weakest Espada).
    • But Rukia never used Bankai. Seems to me that Hitsugaya's Bankai just gives him some pretty wings but no addition to strength at all.
    • How is it relevant that Rukia never used Bankai? The fact still stands Aaroniero was the weakest and Halibel is the fourth strongest, which is huge gap. Rukia only barely managed to beat Aaroniero. Rukia would be lucky to survive against even an unreleased Halibel even with the third dance.
    • It seems as if Toshiro has a habit of fighting strong opponents while Rukia tends to fight weaker ones. Take Grimmjow's raid on Karakura, for example. Rukia fought D-Roy, who seemed to be one of the weakest and cockiest Arrancar, and won easily. However, Toshiro fought Shawlong, the leader of Grimmjow's fraccion and the most powerful. Also, we know that Rukia would be a seated officer if Byakuya would allow it; we just don't know how high-seated she would be.
    • As much as I like Hitsugaya, however, there is one thing that can rebuke those statements: Hitsugaya used Shikai on Yammy who was unreleased and was weaker than Aaroniero... then Yammy shove off that Shikai. How is that going to clear off the bugging?
      • Simple. He had two aces that helped him against Halibel, and he didn't expect that he would need either of them. It would be like dropping a nuke at the first sign of danger.
    • I'm getting sick of this misconception, Rukia only beat her opponent because he held her near his head and laughed like an idiot allowing her to repair her sword.If Halibel did the same Toshiro could repair his sword in her head as well and probably kill her.The 9th Espada is a Gillian he was never famous for any notable riatsu,physical strength,striking speed or speed in general and his Hierro is probably the least durable from what we've seen of the others.Yammy is an Espada with more physical strength and better durability than the 9th.Also Toshiro's sword manipulates the weather and we saw how scared Kira was of it's riatsu even Rangiku could sense it's activation from far.Also if you read Toshiro's gaiden it shows that when he was younger he froze things by leaking his riatsu out and could materialise Hyorinmaru in his sleep even though he did'nt have a Zanpakto or was a member of the Gotei 13.Just read the whole Halibel vs toshiro fight, he is'nt doing so bad he pushed her back when she was'nt serious and when she got serious and attacked him Stark commented "You guys are tough", then later he gets smacked around again and gets back up.She fires her projectile Azul on page 6 of chapter 355 and on page 13 he's still standing after taking it, so that alone puts him quite high if he can take a signature attack from the serious base Halibel.
    • Actually that was an ice mirror reflection, so we don't know yet what will happen if Hitsugaya takes a full brunt of Halibel's attack. And defense certainly is not Hitsugaya's forte, unlike Kenpachi.
    • According to the databook, Hitsugaya has 80 Defense, which is the same as Kenpachi's.
  • Judging from the most recent chapter, Hitsugaya's zanpakuto has some sort of special technique which lets him use "everything in heaven" as a weapon (or something like that) which relates to ice or water so we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.
  • If I recall correctly, Hitsugaya's zanpakuto is water and ice type. Rukia's is ice and snow.
  • Also there is a big gap just between one espada and another, in terms of resurreccion Szayel is weaker than the faster Zommari with his controlling eyes, he is weaker than the stronger and wilder Grimmjow, who is weaker than Nnoitra who is stronger, has a much greater defense and has 6 arms and weapons, and even he falls short against Ulquiorra's power (even his first resurreccion) so it's easily understandable how the 3rd espada is incredibly stronger than the 9th one, to be honest Toshiro is way over his head fighting against the 3th espada (remember that Byakuya had trouble with the 7th and Kenpachi with the 5th)
• How exactly does the Zanpakuto system work? Is a new sword with a new name spawned for each Shinigami? If so, then wouldn't the swords be constantly improving? Why is Sode no Shirayuki acknowledged as the "most beautiful" zanpakuto, or Hyourinmaru the "strongest ice and water elemental," or Ukitake and Shunsui's swords being the only two pairs of dual-wield swords?
  • Zanpakuto and their spirits are a part of the shinigami's soul. Academy students are given "blank" zanpakuto to learn how to use a sword, but I don't recall if it is ever stated whether the spirit of the zanpakuto imprints itself on the "blank" or if a new sword is manifested at some point. Given that Zangetsu just appeared in Ichigo's hand when he became a shinigami and that Kenpachi had his zanpakuto before he even set foot in the Seireitei, I'd lean toward the latter. The point is that no one makes the individual zanpakuto like one would forge an actual sword. They simply are, if that makes sense. Descriptions like "most beautiful" and "strongest ice and water elemental" are just that, descriptions. A bunch of people decided that Sode no Shirayuki was more beautiful than any other zanpakuto out there, therefore it is called "most beautiful." There isn't an ice or water element zanpakuto stronger than Hyourinmaru, therefore it is called the strongest.
  • Note that when spirits die they are reincarnated, and unless I'm remembering wrong that would hold true for shinigami as well (Given there's little difference other than power). I saw a fic once that explained this with a conversation between Ichigo and Zangetsu where Ichigo asks him what would happen to him if he died. His response? "I will always remain as Zangetsu." The conversation goes further, when it finally concludes when he says "How many times do you think you have asked me this?". Now that was some food for thought. Assuming that theory is correct, one could argue that they have records of shinigami who passed away in battle and were reincarnated, died again, then became shingami again in an endless cycle, and because the souls are basically the 'same', so will be the Zanpakuto. Of course going down this route brings up all kinds of questions, so until the subject is breached we're unlikely to get an answer. Only real kink is Tousen, who is using the Zanpakuto of the chick who died, but we can argue all kinds of things to try and explain THAT one now can't we...
• Yamamoto describes Ukitake's and Shunsui's zanpakutos as the only dual zanpakutos in Soul Society. However, by now we know that Hisagi's consists of two blades he dual wields, connected by a chain, exactly the same as Ukitake's. And it's very unlikely that he only obtained it recently, being a lieutenant since his introduction.
  • This troper has seen Fan Wank that he meant Ukitake and Shunsui were the only shinigami with dual sword zanpakuto, but it's probably just one of the those details that will never be explained.
    • Hisagi's unleashed weapon is more like a Kusarigami, rather than being two separate and individual swords. Kusaraigami - literally, 'chain sickle'. That Other Wiki has information on this.
    • This Troper believes you should get your Japanese straight. "Kusarigami" translates to "Chain God". You mean Kusarigama. Gama/Kama is a Japanese sickle-styled weapon.
    • I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that a kusarigama is effectively regarded as a chain weapon with a blade at the end. In Hisagi's case, he's got a blade at either end, but the point is that it's a single weapon - the chain is as important as the blades, which is why we see him using it just as much as the actual blades themselves. On the other hand, Kyouraku and Ukitake are using two weapons at the same time. Even though Ukitake has a cord connecting his two blades, that's not so much a weapon in its own right but a conduit between his two blades. In that case, it would be right to say that Hisagi does not have a dual weapon. He has a single chain weapon which just happens to have a blade at either end of it and requires two hands to use.
  • Recent anime filler seems to support the idea that both Shunsui and Ukitake have two zanpaktou souls instead of a single one like Hisagi. That's why they are the only one with true twin zanpatkous. Only a filler but Tite does the design for characters for it.
    • On that, Kyoraku having two makes sense because Katen Kyokotsu is the only zanpakuto so far with two separate blades. Doesn't explain why Ukitake gets two and Hisagi one spirit when both their zanpakuto are one sword in their sealed forms, and two weapons joined together in shikai. Although Ukitake's does have 'pisces' in the name, which could have something in it; two people joined together.
    • The rope that ties Ukitake's swords together is nothing more than a conduit between a weapon that absorbs and a weapon that attacks - that is two individual weapons that 'talk to each other' if you like. Hisagi's weapon is a kusarigama - that's a chain weapon with a blade at the end, although Hisagi uniquely has a blade at either end instead of just one. In other words, Hisagi's weapon is not two bladed weapons connected by a chain, it's a chain with a blade at either end.
  • He didn't liked his zanpakuto and rarely released so I understood that people thought that his sealed state was his shikai, since captains have to show their bankais to be promoted (except Kenpachi) but it's never said that lieutenants are required to show their shikais to anyone but maybe their captains, so most likely Yamamoto simply didn't knew of his sword.

• It doesn't bug me very much, mind you, but it still does bug me that not one Soul Reaper's zanpakuto starts off as anything other than a bladed weapon. Yeah, one can sheathe and unsheathe a sword in a really cool way for one slash battles and all of that but what about guns and their holsters. It would make sense for the smaller soul reapers with shorter reach and smaller muscles (spiritual pressure and long-range short-range weapons attacks aside) to pack a piece. It could even have been a mark of honor and valor to be 'promoted' from long-range weapons even a child can use to swords! Tiny people who wield swords they don't even look capable of holding without breaking their arms bugs me.
  • ....This is shonen.
  • Hinamori, Rukia, and Soi Fong, who are among the smallest Shinigami we know of, are all at least as proficient in kido, which can be used at a distance, as they are with their zanpakuto. Even in Bleach swords aren't the only way to fight.
    • How did you not count Yachiru? She has LITTLE WHEELS on her sheath to stop it from dragging.
    • Probably because, as of late, we don't know a lot about Yachiru. She would be the obvious choice for having a high proficiency of Kido, due to her small stature, but she's also lieutenant of 11th Squad, implying a high proficiency of sword based techniques. Only time will tell what her abilities really are.
    • The Eleventh Division not only encourages physical offensive training but actively discourages kidou-related fighting to the point where Yumichika hides the true power of his sword from everyone, even Ikkaku, which doesn't seem like something a squad with a vice-captain who specializes in kidou would do. Plus, it's been implied that her reiatsu is pretty powerful, not unlike that of Ichigo and Zaraki. And we all know how they are when it comes to controlling their spiritual power. Last, but certainly not least, we've seen that Yachiru's both fast enough to jump onto Ichigo's sword before he can even notice she's moving and physically strong enough to carry her unconscious captain away from the battleground to the roof of a supposedly tall building without breaking a sweat. Most importantly, who would be able to get that hyperactive vice-captain to sit still long enough to teach her boring things like kidou chants and reiatsu control? Even Byakuya can only get her to calm down by stuffing sweets in her mouth, but that probably wouldn't mix well with chanting.
  • It's also worth noting that while Momo's Shikai has the form of a sword, its main power is that it can fire powerful kido attacks. Thus, even though it looks like a sword, it functions more like a gun.
  • This troper thinks that since the Zanpakuto is part of the shinigami's own soul, it would be impossible to fire "soul-bullets" without damaging user's soul more than opponent's one. This makes sense since the only ones using ranged weapons (in this case bows, which makes sense with the "Feudal era theme") are Quincy that use external spiritual power to fuel their abilities. (This makes even more sense thinking that, since a Quincy has much less Reiatsu in his body, he should be much more weak than a shinigami armor-wise and so they avoid melee range)
    • Kido spells, as far as this troper can tell, are from a shinigami's internal stock of reiatsu, given that being able to perform high-numbered spells is a big deal. It's not terribly plausible that firing your own spiritual energy using part of yourself as a focus would actually damage said part.
  • Interestingly enough, they were originally supposed to use guns (except Rukia, who had a scythe), but Tite Kubo switched to swords after deciding to give them kimonos.
• It bugs me that nearly every character's zanpakuto's Shikai and Bankai forms match the personality of the wielder almost perfectly.
  • Err, why? Empathic Weapon, remember? It's part of their soul.
  • Ikkaku's zanpaktou is specifically stated to be lazy, unlike Ikkaku. Yumichika's and Matsumoto's blades had their wielder's personalities for humor's sake.
    • This one always thought it was incredibly blatant subtext that Ikkaku was lazy like Victor Tugelbend, or Fighter. He works hard enough to avoid working harder than he has to. Someone who didn't make full soul reaper would have to fight to make a living, a lower-ranking soul reaper would have to work for higher-ranking shinigami, and if he made captain, he'd have to, well, be captain. He acted weird in the human world (and possibly when he first met Ichigo) mostly because he didn't want to bother with the humans, as shown by his freakout when Mizuno or someone approached him. If this troper is sorely mistaken, okay. On the original troper's JBM entry, It's stated by at least Renji that a soul reaper can determine the form of their Bankai while still training (the ability necessary to survive Byakuya's attack had little to do with his personality).
    • In the English manga and dubbed anime, Ikkaku describes Hozukimaru as a "slow starter", unlike him, who needs to be forced to use his full power. Then again, this is fairly ironic, since Ikkaku also needs to get beaten up before he even considers using Bankai.
    • This would seem to fall under the same category as Yumichika and Rangiku recognizing flaws in their zanpakutos while failing to notice that they share the same flaw.
• If the zanpakuto purifies hollows and sends them to the soul society (or hell if they were evil when they were human) then wouldn't we run into the souls of the people who used to be hollows eventually? Like Orihime's brother, or some of the arrancar?
  • Furthermore, would a purified menos be split back into a large number of souls, or would it stay as a composite soul?
    • It could very well be this is where the Shinigami come from is simply menos, etc that have been purified and sent to the soul society with no memory of how to access that part of their spirit and must be retrained... would explaine Kenpachi. But this also leavs us to wonder what happens to the shinigami that do die, if soul society death reincarnates someone then do they keep the same spiritual power or does it taper off to other places?
  • All Arrancar were Gillians at some point, so they are the stronger counciense out of thousands, so maybe when they are purified and reach Hueco Mundo they'll most likely be a normal menos.
• Soi Fon's zanpakuto, a physical representation of her soul, turns into a rocket launcher when it reaches its ultimate form. This seems to go completely against her nature and she even says that she doesn't like using it. Shouldn't her bankai be more suited to her fighting style or personality? Hisagi previously said that he didn't like his sword, but that was more about the fact that his sword shows that he is meant to kill. Soi Fon doesn't really seem like she's meant to wield a freaking rocket launcher.
  • It fits her perfectly. Unyielding, forceful, strongwilled, coldhearted to most, VERY focused and directed at what she wants. What is very powerful and unyielding but also directable? Rocket launcher or bazooka.
  • But rocket launchers and bazookas are also very loud, can quickly direct attention to the user, and can also give away your position, something Soi Fon is against.
  • Also there is a possibility that Bankai was created out of a need rather than a want; think about it, as an example, Ichigo's Bankai filled a gap in his anilities such as giving him extra speed and a powerful blast, in Soifon's case, maybe she really needed a fricking nuke at the time of her Bankai forming.
    • It's already been proven that not every Bankai is linked to a shinigami needing something at the time. Case in point: Komamura having a huge giant in armor for his Bankai, despite the fact that he's one of the best captains in terms of strength, offense, and defense.
  • Perhaps the banzooka is a weapon of last resort. If her cover is already blown, a nuke here or there can only help her in defeating her enemies and getting out alive.
  • she is against loud and flashy because of her position as member and later leader of the stealth coprs, but she is not quiet and calm when not on a mission, so it's not really part of her personality (which defines a zanpakuto's abilities) but her job.
• Bankais made sense when it was just a super upgrade but how the hell do you go from a two-hit kill finger blade thingy to a freaking missle?
  • I always thought, that it was a logical extension of her zanpaktou's ability; Shikai: two-hit kill, Bankai: one-hit kill (quite obvious since it's a FREAKING NUKE).
  • My theory about this is that it stems from her desires to be noticed by Yoruichi. A missile would certainly do that
  • There's also Tosen's zanpakuto, whose true nature seems hard to pin down. His first form sends out a sound that can disable his opponents, his second form sends a hail of needles down on his opponents, and his Bankai traps opponents in a sphere that deprives them of their senses. It seems like he has whatever abilities the plot demands at the point (like capturing Uryu alive, or playing to Kenpachi's weaknesses).
    • It was said that the zanpakuto he uses was originally owned by that women he would talk to. The moves that attack the senses might be he ones that formed since he started using it while the needle one might be originally that woman's.
    • We also know hardly anything about how that's even possible, since a zanpakuto is part of a Soul Reaper's soul. I hope that when the time comes for Tousen to fight, some light is shed on that subject.
    • I, for one, would like to know where it says he took this woman's zanpakuto. I keep re-reading and I still haven't found any reference to him doing that. Quite frankly, it makes no sense for him to use someone else's zanpakuto, seeing that it is known that the zanpakuto comes from the soul.
    • It doesn't say it. It outright shows it happen directly. The how or why mechanics haven't remotely been shown of yet, but in terms of the scene it's undoubtably hers as she's being laid out with it, and in terms of the shape it's further undoubtably the one he uses later, as the ring is rather telling.
    • actually, it could had been his zanpakuto that he laid there on her grave before picking it up again, as in showing how he was taking justice in his own hands, it's never really stated that it was hers, and there are a lot of explanations against it specially since people a their own unique zanpakuto and even if it was hers, she didn't had the same personality Tosen had, which means he couldn't had released shikai even less bankai.
• I know that when a Hollow's mask is destroyed by a Zanpakutō, its soul is purified and sent to Soul Society, does this mean that when you do the same to an Arrancar, do they go there too?
  • I would imagine since arrancars are just massive piles of souls, all those souls go to soul society
    • That's what I assumed as well, but then why are Ichigo and co. so hesitant to kill their Arrancar opponents? The ones they've been facing were Menos before becoming Arrancars, meaning each one of them encompasses possibly hundreds of souls, if not more. Why wouldn't you take the chance to purify all those souls? It's particularly jarring when Ishida prevents Super Hollow Ichigo from finishing Ulquiorra with his zanpakuto, which is the only thing that can purify the soul of a hollow (right?). Then Ichigo himself refuses to deliver the final strike, condemning Ulquiorra to "die" from having his organs vaporized by a cero. What happens to the souls in that case? Is Ichigo really so much of an Idiot Hero that he would allow the souls of hundreds to disappear from existence entirely (which is not only insanely cold-hearted but harmful to the balance of souls between soul society and the real world) in the name of "honor?"
    • There's also the unresolved question of what happens to all those souls once a Menos (much less an Arrancar that used to be one) is defeated. In the manga, Ichigo suggests that because Grand Fisher devoured his mother's soul, she's essentially ceased to exist, but there's the question of what happens to the other souls inside a Gillian once it becomes an Arrancar with a single personality and no indication of ever being at risk of regressing. It could be like Hohenheim of the manga of Fullmetal Alchemist, who has the souls of half a million people residing inside him and can actually talk to them and knows their names and life stories, but it seems like Kubo forgot about the act of purifying souls, and basically moved the story to focus on fighting against hollows, Soul Reapers and Arrancars.
    • It doesn't take a zanpakuto to send someone to the afterlife - most souls go there by themselves when they die, presumably they are all able to if they are not bound to the world of the living. A zanpakuto merely clears a hollow of the sins it committed as a hollow. I would guess that the death of a menos through any means besides being slain with a zanpakuto or Quincy bow would result in the dominant personality of the menos, plus any souls that had been dominant in earlier menos consumed by that one, going to Hell for their sins as hollows, while the other souls that had basically been forced along for the ride being judged for their sins in life, like a regular purified hollow. Still rather cold-hearted considering the alternative's still objectively better, but not quite dooming the souls to non-existence.
  • The mask being destroyed doesn't kill the hollow. Remember, Ichigo broke off Orihime's brother's mask. You just kill them.
• Ukitake said that he doesn't want Shunsui to use his Bankai "where everyone can see it". Also, earlier, Omeada was shocked when Soifon (his own captain) used her Bankai. Why is it some of the captains seem to be actively trying to hide their Bankais? Shouldn't their Bankais be common knowledge in Soul Society since they were supposedly required to show them to the rest of the captains in order to become a captain in the first place?
  • To most/some of the other captains yes, to everyone else no. It's a bit of a running theme that the more chance you can observe someone and their technicques, the easier it is for you to beat them. Admittedly, Starrk is the only Espada left in Fake!Karakura, but Aizen, Gin and Tousen (who can still sense outside of the fire barrier) would have had no cause to see Shunsui's bankai. Remember, he is one of the oldest captains. As for Soifon, Omeada was shocked because Soifon never uses her Bankai, for stated reasons.
    • But Omeada did say something along the line of "I've never seen that before. Is that Captain Soifon's Bankai?" It just seems odd that not even her own vice captain had ever seen it.
    • Why? Soifon has said she hates to use her Bankai because of it's design. And considering how she is, you know she wouldn't just show it to people, and my guess is she reserves it's use (If she's ever used it other than now and perhaps once or twice after obtaining it to practice) for situations where you need a ranged cruise missile strike to kill the target as opposed to a silent assassination up close, which can't happen very often and probably not while Omeada is around.
    • It also took some time to set up, which is why she told Oomaeda to act as a decoy, and shows that she can't easily use it when fighting alone.
  • On Kyoraku specifically, the implication seems to be that the nature of the bankai makes releasing it dangerous. His shikai is erratic and spreads to other people in the vicinity (plus 'she' only plays along when she feels like it, adding to the randomness). If Katen Kyokotsu's bankai state increased that area of effect, things could get very messy if no-one knew the rules (unless it's limited to whoever Kyoraku is focussed on fighting). The colour game seems to require a colour to be stated in order to work, but the other two don't need anything specific. Add the name, release...poem and number of 'demon' references and some level of Nightmare Fuel would be my guess.
• Ok Kubo really needs to stop with this whole don't show my ban-kai/true power bs. Why is Aizen taken so much effort into defeating them with elaborate plots, when Soul Society seems perfectly willing to kill themselves of becuase they are all idiots. You'd have to think Ukitake and Shunsui wouldn't be in their current predicament if they just used their Goddamn bankai.
  • Hear, hear. Pull friggin' Bankai and kill them already. Although I suppose it's possible they were rationing themselves cos they knew they still had Aizen to defeat, or something like that.
  • Neither of them had the time to counter. Also I imagine there is a lot of sizing up going on at the moment with Aizen trying to deduce who exactly has the most power and the captains trying to get used to fighting a humanish Hollow.
  • Maybe he really is just saving it for Aizen. I'm guessing that the battles we typically see are the exception to the rule, and most Captains never even have to use their Shikai for the sort of fighting they usually experience (apparently, Aizen never even knew his own former Captain's Shikai), so it's entirely possible that Aizen has no idea what Kyoraku's bankai actually does. Kyoraku's Shikai has a pretty nasty power, if his Bankai does something better than that, it makes sense they wouldn't want to let Aizen analyze it before it's used against him personally.
    • Ukitake warns Kyoraku from using bankai where people could see. Taking his treatment of Starrk into account, Shunsui not pulling bankai even on Aizen when others were around would suggest he thought it would do more harm than good. His zanpakuto is something of a reality warper, and there was enough of that sort of thing going on as it was. He uses only the shadow game and general sneakiness against Aizen. The choice of game makes sense because all the others - 'colour' in particular - would be a poor choice in a group battle like that because any choice of colour could hamper the numerous other participants. Consistent with his fight with Starrk, Kyorkau did what he could with the most pragmatic choice under the circumstances.
  • This question would apply to almost everyone who stood up against Aizen; most of them are of Captain-class - Yamamoto, Shinji, Love, Rose, Urahara, Yoruichi, Isshin - so they should have ban kai. Why don't they all use their ban kai?
    • Yamamoto's zanpaktou was negated, Yoruichi never uses hers, Isshin might still be recovering from having lost his powers and be incapable, Love and Rose got taken out before they knew they needed it, and ... I got nothing on Shinji or Urahara. Maybe only inverting some senses is Shinji's bankai?
• What would happen if Ichigo stabbed Urahara's training dummy with Zangetsu, given that Zangetsu's been usurped by Shirosaki?
  • Well, assuming that Shirosaki is still in control, then it would proabably work exactly like that one time in Ichigo's mind.
• Zanpakutos purify spirits, Quincy arrows completely destroy them, so what do Kido, Hollow attacks (Ceros etc) and Chad's arms do? And what do Arrancar Zanpakutos do? Do they purify spirits and send them to Soul Society, or would they turn people into Hollows?
  • Arrancar Zanpakutos are just their full power compressed into a sword. I doubt they do anything other than cut.
    • But what happens if they kill another Arrancar or Hollow with their sword? Does the Soul(s) go to Soul Society? Or are they gone forever like if a Quincy had killed them?
    • They'd be gone forever like when a Quincy kills them. Shinigami are the only ones with the power to send spirits to Soul Society.
    • But that really wouldn't make any sense. Soul Society can't reasonably stop every hollow attack in the real world; they certinaly can't stop hollows killing each other for the lolz in Hueco Mundo. If a couple hundred Quincies destroying hollows was enough of a threat to the balance of the world to warrant slaughtering them all, then if hollows also completely destroy spirits, the balance should have broken long ago, especially considering that hollows would have been killing souls for as long as hollows have existed, and the Quincy clan had only been around for a few generations. Sudden thought! Didn't Yamamoto mention something about 'True Death' at one point? Then there's Hell, so presumably there's other realms of death too... so would it be that Zanpakutos purify spirits, Quincy arrows destroy them, Hollows eating a soul incorporate it into themselves (a la Menos), and anything else sends them to 'True Death'?
    • Regular hollows eat the souls. They kill the identity, but the matter remains as part of the hollow whole. Eat enough souls, you strong enough to amalgum together and become Menos, at which point on, you eat hollows. Since Arrancar seem to be midly rare, and so far don't do so much out side of Heuco Mundo (Nnoitra killed a bunch of hollows, but who knows how much that affects things), their destruction of souls with their swords probably doesn't impact the balance, akin to Ishida's probably remarkable record of hollow ass-kickery in the past. Ceros probably destroy souls too, but they use that as an offense against Shinigami and other hollows bad enough to hurt them.
    • What about Chad? Do his arms kill souls outright? Or does he purify them?
    • Probably kills. His powers are hollow-like, but he doesn't like eat people, so he probably destroys them. Since Chad is just one dude, and he doesn't take out to many hollows, it's probably not a problem. And before anyone wonders at all the souls being destroyed, note that A(Any shinigami or other spirits already in SS go back to the real world when the snuff it, and every arrancar or menos level hollow that is purified counts for a whole shitload of souls.
    • i always thought it sends them on without freeing them of there sins, so basicly it always sends them to hell for eating people souls. of couse that just raises further problems
• Hisagi says that he hates the scythe-like form of his Shikai, because it looks like something meant to take life. Did he fail to notice that the sealed form of his sword is, well, a sword? Which unlike a scythe is actually something designed for killing.
  • Likely an issue for him is that a sword could be used to defend from someone else's attacks. Kazeshini can really only be used offensively, which given his and Tousen's views on fighting would be a negative.
  • I think he was just using psychology. Look at what he was doing in that scene. He was effectively telling Findor to look his own death in the face. He was describing Findor's death to him. He was saying 'look at my weapon. It's designed to kill. It doesn't hold back. It only has one purpose. To take your life. This is how you're going to die.' - he was trying to freak Findor out. If notice, Findor did indeed immediately freak out.
  • I think it's a combination of the above tropers statement about physcology, and something else. Hisagi is in the 9th division, which according to the guide book is filled with writers, poets, and generally artistic people; he's Genre Savvy. He recognizes the implications of a scythe, and he doesn't like it. "Doesn't it resemble something that reaps lives?" Yes. A punk-like Soul Reaper wielding two double-bladed scythes on a chain that says his weapon looks like something meant to reap lives isn't exactly subtle. The appearance of his Zanpakuto spirit, Kazeshini (literally, "Wind Death") in the filler arc calls even more attention to it ^{[dead link]} . On a semi-related note, the picture & caption on the Rule of Cool page become even cooler and a bit funny when you know that Hisagi plays the guitar and wants to start a band.
• How many segments does Zabimaru actually have? This one really REALLY bugs me.
  • When it's not extended in Shikai, six in addition to the one connected to the hilt. In the anime, however, you can sometimes see more than that, like in the fights with Ilfort and Szyael. As for the Bankai, I'm not sure there's any definite number
• Is it just me, or does Hyorinmaru seem way better in Shikai state than in Bankai? Somehow I have trouble believing that "Vaguely showy ice-wings and empowered ice control (given enough time)" > "Giant water/ice dragon big enough to drown/freeze just about anyone. "
  • ... Huh? In shikai he has that ice dragon and weather control. Alright. He has that in bankai too. Could kill everyone around with it, but he stil could. In addition he gets mass ice attacks (of which only the 1000 year prison needs prep time with moisture). Really the only shown difference is that the bankai lacks the chain that freezes whatever it traps, and he has a tail in bankai anyway. It's an 'all that and more' type deal. Really the only bankai at this point I'd claim is weaker than the shikai is Soifon's, and that's mostly because it's so unweildy that it's viable for exactly one type of enemy if you want to use it reliably (as close range is suicide), a gaint slow beasty that's defence is stronger than her shikai can get through. Hitsugaya's problem isn't that, it's more that out of every fight he's been in he's been totally gipped due to plot. Luppi and Harribel survived purely because of plot to 'die' shortly after through some other rather stupid means to serve some sort of point, Gin was cut short, Shawlong was under a limiter which previously was shown to be so bad a vicecaptian nearing bankai could lose to freaking pre-trained Ichigo, and his only other battle was against Captain Broken. It's kinda sad when his only real shonen fight in the manga was that Harribel battle which got nulled due to Wonderwiess, and even that he had to share screentime with the Barragon battle during the whole thing.
  • Mm. Point conceded. I didn't realize he could still use the ice dragon thing in Bankai. (Actually, I was watching amovie when I wrote that, and like a half hour later, he did that exact thing.). And I agree, he really could use some actual full fights.
    • Yeah, he uses the ice dragon in bankai all of once in the manga (Like most all of his bankai moves really), against Harribel at some point. As a matter of fact I'd thought the same thing as you prior to that, as such an attack is damn handy. Then I remember that pretty much all of his battles were either plot driven, damn short and barely count as an actual fight, or both. Which is in itself why I find it extremely laughable that people even remotely consider him a spotlight stealer at all. Granted he gets a tad more coverage than the other captains (Barely in some cases), but even what he's done thus far doesn't even come CLOSE to the sheer number of battles Ichigo's had. In the Soul Society Arc alone.
• Is it me, or does Sajin have the most worthless bankai ever? Just about every single time he tries it...he gets pwned in some way.
  • Uh? This troper only remembers seeing it three times outside of filler; twice against Aizen, and once against Po... Which he won.
    • He activated once during the Soul Society arc when he was about to fight Kenpachi, though I don't think he ended up actually using it. He also used it against Tousen and the only reason Tousen didn't sustain any significant damage was because of his high speed regeneration and the brokeness of his Resurrecion form. In short, it only appears useless because of how strong those he has used it against were.
• I'm disappointed nobody has tricked Izuru into defeating himself by getting him to attack something that's above him...not a major problem, but you'd think somebody would've tried it by now.
  • His replica was defeated when an iron rod got caught in the hook on his sword.
• Not so much a Headscratcher as a reminder that needing to call your attacks can be a pain. Ukitake and Kyoraku both have very unwieldy release 'phrases' for their zanpakuto. They surely must have gotten knocked around a lot before they were able to skip them. We must see them get interrupted mid-Call, just because.

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