Hello. Im looking for one of those triangular bladed ice-pick style knifes NBKs always talking about. Does anyone have a link to a store that sells them in the US? I'm looking to spend about 20 bucks on it. Thanks

<a href="http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/store/cold-steel-fixed-blades.html" target="_blank">http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/store/cold-steel-fixed-blades.html</a>

Scroll to the bottom. There's the dart and the tanto style, both plastic. :)

I've had the "letter opener" one, and could stab it into a phone pole with only a very slight blunting of the tip, easily fixed with an emery board.

****Triangular (and square) needle files sell for 99 cents each at the local hardware store here. They're made from insanely hard steel, since they're files, come down to extremely nasty points, and are dirt cheap to boot. I picked up three of these for legitimate purposes but they're good dimensions for concealable weapons: A hair longer than six inches long and about a quarter inch thick. They're fun to chuck at the dartboard, too...

~Zero

The problem is a file is metallic and it is to hard; it will break. You can make shanks out of anything. Plastic resins a widely aviable

****Harder metals are indeed more brittle, but in the case of a file I think it would be more than durable enough to shiv somebody once or twice. If it hits a bone and you do manage through some happenstance to make the point snap off that will just make it that much more painful for the target. At 99 cents a pop you can carry around twelve of the things.
****In all reality, though, I've found the needle files to be very durable. I throw them like knives, probably the second most stressful thing you can do with a weapon, and haven't even managed to blunt much less snap one yet. The biggest problem with the things is their lack of handles, which makes it tough to stab someone and keep a firm grip on...
****Professional knifes will probably always be a better option, but these work for cheap.

~Zero

Plastic spikes and tantos cost less than $10. Can't get much cheaper than that.

Plastic has the singular advantage of being undetectable by metal detectors, so that's one up over files.

Plus, by putting the spike in a plastic sleeve, you can quister it (hide it in your ass) and pass through a frisk or strip search, as long as they don't give you a finger wave. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

That plastic dart is pretty nifty. Is it sharp along the sides though? Could it be used to cut things, or is it like a plastic ice pick? Are they liable to snap? And finaly, could it go through a balistic vest? (not that it matters, i just like knowing that) Thanks

You could make a version of the dart for the price of an old tooth brush. It would give you an Idea if of what they are like before you buy.

I have seen women wearing sticks in their hair. Frostfire you should get some made up of polycarbonate... just an idea.

A ballistic vest is designed to stop bullets, not blades. That's why ice picks, arrows, chisels, and other "pointy" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> objects are more feared by police at close range than a bullet. Their vest could stop the bullet from a distance, but the maniac sitting on their chest with the screwdriver is going to be killing some pig. :D

Prison guards can get BA that'll stop a pick, but it won't stop a bullet. Hmmm...vitamin C tablets in the quarterly package...some dirt from the yard... :D

So, yes, the spike could probably penetrate a vest if you're strong enough. The Tanto can penetrate a vest as well. Back in the early 80's, when it was first being advertised, they'd show the knife punching holes in steel drums, car doors, and body armor. :) Don't do that anymore because of the P.C. of the magazines in refusing to carry any ads for things that might "be used against LEO's" :barf:

The letter opener I had didn't have a razor sharp edge...that is until I broke down some shaving razors and melted the blades into it. THEN it was razor sharp. :D

You could likely do the same thing with the spike. Though these are more stabbing than slashing weapons. Besides which, stabbing is more lethal than slashes, so you don't want to deviate from that useage pattern anyways.

I never managed to snap mine, though I was only stabbing trees and such. I don't think it'd be possible to snap it, it'd just get bent like plastics tend to do. Snap off in flesh...not very likely.

A nifty mod to the spike would be to include poison sacks. A notch is cut along one side of the spike, into which is laid a bit of latex tubing with a liquid poison inside. The end closest to the point has a small barb attached so it'll remain inside the wound when pulled out.

As the spike is pulled out, a small bit of razor blade near the tip (inside the notch) would slit the tube, releasing the poison inside.

The italian courtiers had a nifty weapon similar to this. It was a triangular dagger (like the spike) that was made of glass with a hollow chamber filled with poison. It would be stabbed into the victim, then broken off inside, releasing the poison within. <img src="http://www.roguesci.org/ubb/icons/icon21.gif" alt=" - " />

<small>[ December 03, 2002, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

According to the website, these knives are tagged with metal rings now to comply with laws regarding non-metallic knives. Can these be removed?

I've heard rumors before about the manufacturers selling out the customer by embedding a metal plate with "knife" stamped into it in the handle.

From what I've gathered, the ring is just a removable split keyring type.

As for the metal plate...hmmm...that could be possible. But, since the things are so cheap, you could just buy two, then melt one down to look for any metal objects embedded within.

I know that there's several gun manufacturers who embed metal inserts in the polymer frames of their guns so the frame itself can't be snuck through a metal detector.

Since fiberglass body filler is available at your local auto parts supplier, just be creative.

My oldest standby, from my high school daze, is a knife carved from wood. In those days, we all carried pocket knives; but when I showed up with a wooden dagger, the guys went nuts. Of late, it has occurred to me to impregnate one of my wooden friends with fiberglass resin, for added strength.

Harry

A brief history of some specalised spikes and shivs. <a href="http://www.donrearic.com/covertweapons.html" target="_blank">http://www.donrearic.com/covertweapons.html</a>

well fuck...
The government has to get its gredy little paws on everything don't they.

This is why I am such a fan of makeing my own shank. I have seen collapsable tent poles made out of Carbon Fiber

fashon a triangular spike out of PVC. simple and cheap. use a belt sander or dremel tool. or, if youve got tons of time, use a file.

EDIT: btw, I bought one of those triangular spikes (me thinketh stabby) at a garage sale for 50 cents. I think my mother threw it away. I recall it being made of fiberglas... I might go buy a cheap 20lb draw fiberglas bow and cut it up with my bandsaw.

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Zach ]</small>

I was reading a book I download from the FTP awhile back...
"Kill Without Joy" Upload by one of our very own Sadists :D . It discusses the use of hollow shanks.

They leave round wounds and allows the blood to flow out throught the center. This makes the traditional Doughnut style bandage ineffective. I would assume the one of these lovelies can by fabricated out of plastic.

Hell you good just use as bic pen with the guts removed, and I ask you how many situations is Ball Point pen out of place? Prefered would be a Throat shot....Anyone watched Casino... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ...?

good luck punching a hole in my hide with a plastic tube while I destroy you with my hands.

Well, with the proper weapon, it'd be a simple case of STABSTABSTAB (all of two seconds to stab kidneys and liver) then run like the devil. You'd have three bleed tubes stuck in you, plus a hemolytic poison or anticoaggulant like MSG, EDTA, or VitC injected in the wounds to keep the blood flowing.

Any kind of running or fighting will simply pump out the blood out of you even faster. :) Bleed out could be within a minute, death shortly thereafter.

Reason for three tubes is because people only have two hands, thus leaving at least one tube unplugged. :D

Also, a lot of the larger hardware stores have stud finder demo models on display. Simply bring some batteries with you (their's are always dead) and wave it over your plastic implement of choice to see if it has any metal in it. RTPB "Anything free must be exploited" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

Well, I bought both items. The tanto is a travesty, the point bent permentnantley after being jamed into a magazine, flimsy peice of shit.
The spike is much better. It has a pretty good point, but it goes pretty fast. Its very sturdy and light though, although Im still hesitent to start carying it around. Does anyone have any sugestions for sharpening he point without sanding off to much plastic? Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Hello. Im looking for one of those triangular bladed ice-pick style knifes NBKs always talking about. Does anyone have a
link to a store that sells them in the US?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Do you have a friend in Germany? He could buy the dagger here ( <a href="http://www.roedter-messer.de/schwerter.htm" target="_blank">http://www.roedter-messer.de/schwerter.htm</a> ) and then
send it to you :)

<img src="http://www.roedter-messer.de/homepagepics/agentdendolch.jpg" alt=" - " />

But it is made of metal. In that case you might aswell carry a regular blade which are easily found.

<a href="http://www.spy-store.com/Knives7.html" target="_blank">http://www.spy-store.com/Knives7.html</a>

But maybe I missed the point... Doubt it though.

You may be able to heat a flat metal surface and press the plastic to it to melt it back into shape. Shave a little off with a razor blade and use that to determine how hot the metal is so you don't get the metal so hot as to melt or burn the plastic, just soften it.

Glad to hear the little review as to the products. I'll avoid the tanto in the future. Though I know the coldsteel Tanto is an excellent piece of steel to own.

Quote by NBK:
"Also, a lot of the larger hardware stores have stud finder demo models on display. Simply bring some batteries with you (their's are always dead) and wave it over your plastic implement of choice to see if it has any metal in it. RTPB "Anything free must be exploited" "

****Stud finders are ultrasonic, I believe, and designed to pick out a hollow spot from a place with a wooden beam (stud) in it. They don't detect metal. Well, they do, but only as well as they detect wood. I suggest just sticking a strong (hard drive) magnet to the thing. If it sticks, there's your first clue...

~Zero

I believe that those "stud finders" will also pick out a copper water pipe, or electrical wiring set in solid plaster. So no hollow there.

<small>[ December 07, 2002, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Anthony ]</small>

The decent studfinders (not the magnet on a pivot types) are actual METAL DETECTORS. They detect ferrous, and non-ferrous metal, and are density meters as well to detect the wood studs.

****I've never seen a metal detecting stud finder (as all of mine are cheap), but I'll take your word for it...

~Zero

John Minnery describes a nice weapon in his book "CIA Catalog of Clandestine
Weapons, Tools and Gadgets"... a dagger temple arm :)

<a href="http://jelly146.tripod.com/glasses" target="_blank">dagger temple arm</a>

..... This pair of glasses contains several blades and cutting weapons.
The temple arms conceal two daggers, and the lenses act as cutting
instruments that are ground sharply along the lower portion that rests
within the frame. The tangs are embedded in the earpiece section, and
the narrow daggers are nestled within the temple arms, replacing the
reinforcing strip that is common in eyeglasses. The lenses can be
prescription-type; in fact, this is preferable for ruse purposes.

The frame must be softened by heat or broken away to release the lenses.
Glass may be honed to incredible sharpness, and the concave shape of
eyeglass lenses allows them to be gripped easily. They are brittle, like
any glass, but if they are ground from industrial safety glasses, they
tend to hold up a lot better. The cutting edge may be used offensively
(held against a throat, for instance), but its primary use is to cut bindings.

The blades are double-edged, made of hardened steel. They are flat and
triangular at the cross section, with the spinelike apex adding some rigidity
and strength. Although the dagger can cut and inflict slashes, it is intended
as a one-time piercing weapon; hence, the desirability of the second backup
dagger. These follow the pattern and use of assassination daggers, which are
thrust home and then snapped off (leaving nothing to help the potential
aid-giver determine what occurred and perhaps disguising the location of the
wound long enough so that treatment will be ineffective).

These glasses have the ability to pass through metal monitoring checkpoints
and even body searches, allowing the agent to be equipped with an escape aid
that is overlooked because it's so transparent .....

various non metalic knives:
<a href="http://www.spytech-uk.com/" target="_blank">http://www.spytech-uk.com/</a>

NBK, there's stab/bullet proof BA; <a href="http://bodyarmour.safeshopper.com/24/40.htm?454" target="_blank">http://bodyarmour.safeshopper.com/24/40.htm?454</a>
edit: never mind...

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: frostfire ]</small>

"...tough knife proof material on the strike face..."

The strike face would be referring to a hard plate armor insert. This is made of a hardened steel, titanium, or ceramic. So what? That's obviously stab proof. I'm referring to a vest that protects against stabbing attacks from all angles, not just the ballistic plate.

most military flak jackets are stab resistant/proof, and just because of the nature of kevlar it would seem logical to assume that so are police BP vests. but why go for the chest when you have a perfectly open neck? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . = that is why riot police are afraid of the blades, also they'd rather arrest you than have you killed by your own blde in a struggle

AFAIK, no current issue vest offers both full bullet and stab resistance.

On the subject of metal being implanted in plastic shivs, is this also true for ceramic kitchen knives? They're brittle but can be sharp as hell, never dull, easy to conceal, and easy to get now also. Any idea?

I had one of the 'executive ice scraper' models, and it was a nice weapon, er, tool. It is used with a natural punching motion ... only problem, is the flat shape tends to rotate (pronate?) along your palm.
<a href="http://store1.yimg.com/I/urdefense_1719_275226" target="_blank">http://store1.yimg.com/I/urdefense_1719_275226</a>

Am I the only one here that has ever heard of Plexi-Glass or what?!! I don't know about how it is in other countries, but here in America you can get the crap just about anywhere!!! It's cheap (depending on the thickness...), easily cut, easily sharpened with a emery-board or small file, keeps a pretty damned good point on it, and is usually see-through to boot! It rarely ever likes to snap either! Therefore you can both slash AND stab with it. I don't mean to sound offensive or anything, but come on...I made my first one of these when I was in like 2nd or 3rd grade...The best thing to usually use is usually also the easiest to thing to get ahold of.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">...triangular bladed ice-pick style knifes...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">That's what this thread is about. Yes, I'm fairly certain everyone here knows about plexiglass. So what's your point?

(polycarbonate or delrin might be a better choice)

Plexiglass AKA acrylic is very brittle. It will snap if you stab with it, but maybe if it was 1/2" thick... But I've never seen it available in sheets of that thickness.

Polycarbonate defintely wouldn't break, but it's pretty soft.

I haven't looked into detail on their construction - to see if they include any metals anywhere, but a cermaic kitchen knife may be an option. E.g.:

<a href="http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1721_27494625" target="_blank">http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1721_27494625</a>

Yes, I did get abit away from the triangle part didn't I? :( Anyway, I don't think that I've EVER seen a brittle piece of plexi-glass. I use to use these things quite often in the streets growing up as one of the only white kids for nearly a mile around, I'm not racist or anything, but that has nothing to do with this..... Anyhow, I usually prefered a piece of 3/16" most of the time, and they worked GREAT for a quick bit of "slash & poke" . If you don't trust the thickness, you should be able to get it thicker with out much difficulty...I recently acquired 2 LARGE pieces that were just under 1 1/4" thick to use for growing tropical plants.

As for breaking off...Alot of people use this stuff for ballistics tests, and are often used for "supposed" :D bullet proof windows. This is quite a bit stronger than most people tend to give it credit for.

True, polycarbonate or delrin would probably be a better choice, but I don't have the slightest clue where to get it around here, and the Plexi is pretty much readily availible up to a given thickness (usually around 3/8", then it has to be ordered).

The stuff you have *is* polycarb for 99.9% sure!

It's the only transparent plastic I'm aware of that's used for any kind of ballistic purpose. Plexi aka perspex aka acrylic will shatter like glass if impacted.

There's two similar ways which would help determine what it is:

1) shave a sliver with a sharp knife, if it shaves a continous strip, remaining fairly clear then it's probably polycarb. If it breaks and/or turns white it's probably perspex.

2) a variation: Make a very thin cut along one edge, three cm long. Try to pull off the piece by hand. If it snaps its acrylic, if it bends easily its polypropylene or polythene, if its hard to pull away and break its polycarb.

A smell of almonds indicated polycarb, a smell of pear drops indicates perspex.

Plexi will burn with a smokey flame, and will extinquish as soon as you remove the flame, leaving a bubbly black char.

Poly doesn't.

Plexi will shatter like glass if you hit it HARD with a hammer, right where you hit it, leaving powdery bits. Poly might fracture, but won't powder.

The almond smell with polycarb is because of the residual cyanide trapped inside of the resin. It's made from hydrogen cyanide, don't you know? :D

<small>[ January 23, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

I suppose I should try out those tests...Though I have dropped the thick pieces already since I got them and they didn't show much of any effect from the fall (about chest high), so maybe I got lucky and got the good stuff :)

I have recently uploaded to a yahoo brief case info regarding "Non Metal Shanks"(called Shanks). Aswell there is info on harnesses for concealed carry(called Strapped).

Yahoo Brief Case:
user: cspec_pdfs
pass: 4rogue

If you want to detect metal in an object get a compass (the north finding variety :) ) and wave your object over it, if there is metal in it the compass needle should move a bit.

Yeah Some funny Mofo Changed the PDF's to Gay Porn(very hardcore)... I think it i kind of Funny.

Oh who could it be...*looks at NBK* is that your style?

Aimaz: A compass won't find all metals. It should find iron, all steel, cobalt, nickel and some others. It would also find some plastics.