Anthony
March 17th, 2003, 08:38 PM
Mmanwitgun
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 09:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: As far as I know, this applies to those in the US only.
I found out that it is legal to buy antique guns (pre-1899 ones and this does not apply to sawed off shot guns of machine guns) legally no matter who you are (except for those younger than 18 like me, but I have older friends so it works out). You can order these through the mail too meaning no pesky FFL fucks. The bad part is that I do not know where to get these via mail order. I hear you can get a good double barrel 12 ga for 150 bucks or so. If anyone knows a good place, tell me.
Also, black powder guns can be bought by anyone over 18, does anyone know where to get cheap black powder derringers through the mail. I would really appreciate any help. Thanks.
~Dave
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 04, 2001 01:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This applies to us in the UK to some extent. It is perfectly legal to buy a musket or flintlock, but not to shoot them. AFAIK, it is also possible to buy antique guns provided the ammunition is no longer manufactured.
J
viper01
Frequent Poster
Posts: 77
From: UK
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 04, 2001 02:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can buy antique 6 shot cap & ball revolvers with no licence in the UK you only require a licence to fire them "wink wink"!
If you are in the UK try a copy of gun mart but don't think they are going to be cheap just because they are old.
The cheapest revolvers you will probably get are Belgium made.
You may be able to get a pin fire revolver for about £40, they can be converted to centre fire.
------------------
Happiness is a big bang!
AR-15 Man
Frequent Poster
Posts: 176
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 04, 2001 05:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea you can buy those pre-1898 guns in the US. Mosin-Nagant rifle in 7.62x54rimmed is one of the more abudant ones out there on the market. It makes a very good rifle. As for pistols you are a little thinner on the selection. You might find a broomhandle mauser but it wouldn't be cheap and it would be cheaper to go Black Market. The Mosin-Nagant rifle is one of the few useful rifles you can buy like that.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 04, 2001 05:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So in the US, what advantage does this have over walking into Wal-mart and buying a nice new gun?
Also, how much would you trust a 100 year old gun?
AR-15 Man
Frequent Poster
Posts: 176
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 04, 2001 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No paper trail!!! Yea you bet you can trust those Mosin-Nagants. They may of been made over 100 years ago but they are used in wars even today. If you don't wanna a 100 year old gun then check out NBK's PDF (shouldn't that be required reading here and maybe someone should make a check list of things for people to read here). Anyways, it show of company's that sell "kit guns" where it only takes a little patience and time to finish the gun. Others include STEN kits. Or maybe a Zip Gun if you don't need a follow up shot (or make a multi barreled one).
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 04, 2001 07:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I see, so you could get a gun if were a felon or otherwise don't supposed to have one.
Jumala
Frequent Poster
Posts: 199
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 04, 2001 08:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here in germany you can buy blackpowderguns when you are over 18 too.
I have some rebuild guns. One flintlock musket cal .75, one Enfield rifled musket ca. .58 and some smaller rifles.
They have good power and precision.
Now I“m looking for a Sharps rifle cal .54.
There are some good pieces on the market but they“re fucking expensive.
Here is a link for BP rifles: <a href="http://www.davide-pedersoli.com" target="_blank">http://www.davide-pedersoli.com</a>
[This message has been edited by Jumala (edited January 04, 2001).]
Hardcore
A new voice
Posts: 18
From: Hague ,NL
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another interesting UK thing is hand guns are
a no no..but saw this advert for a 44 magnum
that is legal in the UK ,barrel is 32 inches long so its classed as a rifle....need license tho .....which kinda sucks but at the expense of long range accuracy you could probably saw off the barrel or replace it with a normal length one....makes the one in batman returns (that the joker had) look
quite short
Machiavelli
Frequent Poster
Posts: 278
From: Germany
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 10:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here“s a nice comprehensive article on the subject: <a href="http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/LegalFirearms.htm" target="_blank">http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/LegalFirearms.htm</a>
viper01
Frequent Poster
Posts: 77
From: UK
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 11:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cartridge pistols may be illegal but you can still buy black powder 6 shot .44 cal revolvers on a licence or of ticket if antique.
------------------
Happiness is a big bang!
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 10, 2001 02:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've also seen adverts for pistol/rifle hybrids. Shooters are getting round the ridiculous hand-gun ban by either lengthening the barrel or stock. I've seen adverts for handguns which have a barrel longer than usual and also a part of the pistol grip, right at the bottom, jutting back for no other purpose than lengthening the gun.
If it was down to barrel length alone, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the larger Desert Eagles would be classed as rifles!
Does anybody know if assault rifles with the gas parts removed are legal or not? All rifles with a larger calibre than .22 rimfire were made illegal in semi-auto after the 'hungerford massacre', but I don't think it's illegal to have a magazine if the gun needs to be cocked maually every shot.
J
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 10, 2001 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe the only requirement for it to be a rifle is to have a barrel length of over 12" - so you can now get some nice 12.5" barreled revolvers!
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 01:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes J, they are legal, in any calibre i think, with any size mag (and a silencer) as long as they are manually cocked each time. Saw an article on a AK-47 lookalike, 7.62mm, manual cocking.
------------------
Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
Visit me at <a href="http://www.surf.to/eliteforum" target="_blank">www.surf.to/eliteforum</a>
wiredfreak
A new voice
Posts: 17
From: none of yuor fu**ing bissnes USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 23, 2001 12:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to: Mmanwitgun
go to a book/magazine store and buy a copy of the Shotgun News, its a big magazine with a bunch of catologs and ads in it.
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 223
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 03:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I must argue that Gun Mart is better.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 24, 2001 05:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What are the UK laws about firing other people's guns? I was in the CCF at school, and shot a non-auto 5.56mm L98-A1, and a full-auto LSW with a 30 round mag when only 14! Obviously I was at a firing range under military supervision, but I don't think this would be legal normally, would it? Like if you were on someone else's land, would you be allowed to use their guns if they had a liscence?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 05:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFAIK, you only need a license to purchase and own a firearm. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to go clay pigeon shooting on a corporate outing.
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 24, 2001 08:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About C&R stuff of US, check out "SHOTGUN NEWS" for listings.
Old Mosin-Nagants are shootable but sometimes
they need you to sign a "non-shooting" statement in case you blew up the gun and killed youself they will not be held responsible. Nagants ammo's are available today too.
Stay very far away from those pre-1905 8mm mausers like the "commission mauser". Their bores are of .319" too small
for post-1905 .323" bullets. .319" bullets and loads are no longer in production today.
Though US firms load their 8mm "underpower"
in case someone fired .323" in a .319" (Yes in this case it's not a hazard but not recommended. All 8mm load you see today in US are underpowered, only handloaders can bring out their "can drop any American big games" potential.)
.319" is known as "J bore" or "I bore"
whereas .323" is known as "S bore" or "JS bore"
For example 7.92x57 S Mauser is the same as 8X57 JS Mauser.
Another thing : If you got yourself a bolt gun like the Nagant, get a gunsmith to check
"headspace" for you. It will cost some money
but it will ensure safety.(Sometimes they mix
or match bolts and receivers, thus cause gross headspace problem, cartridge rupture and can kill the shooter.)
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 03, 2001 09:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: As far as I know, this applies to those in the US only.
I found out that it is legal to buy antique guns (pre-1899 ones and this does not apply to sawed off shot guns of machine guns) legally no matter who you are (except for those younger than 18 like me, but I have older friends so it works out). You can order these through the mail too meaning no pesky FFL fucks. The bad part is that I do not know where to get these via mail order. I hear you can get a good double barrel 12 ga for 150 bucks or so. If anyone knows a good place, tell me.
Also, black powder guns can be bought by anyone over 18, does anyone know where to get cheap black powder derringers through the mail. I would really appreciate any help. Thanks.
~Dave
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 04, 2001 01:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This applies to us in the UK to some extent. It is perfectly legal to buy a musket or flintlock, but not to shoot them. AFAIK, it is also possible to buy antique guns provided the ammunition is no longer manufactured.
J
viper01
Frequent Poster
Posts: 77
From: UK
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 04, 2001 02:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can buy antique 6 shot cap & ball revolvers with no licence in the UK you only require a licence to fire them "wink wink"!
If you are in the UK try a copy of gun mart but don't think they are going to be cheap just because they are old.
The cheapest revolvers you will probably get are Belgium made.
You may be able to get a pin fire revolver for about £40, they can be converted to centre fire.
------------------
Happiness is a big bang!
AR-15 Man
Frequent Poster
Posts: 176
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 04, 2001 05:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea you can buy those pre-1898 guns in the US. Mosin-Nagant rifle in 7.62x54rimmed is one of the more abudant ones out there on the market. It makes a very good rifle. As for pistols you are a little thinner on the selection. You might find a broomhandle mauser but it wouldn't be cheap and it would be cheaper to go Black Market. The Mosin-Nagant rifle is one of the few useful rifles you can buy like that.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 04, 2001 05:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So in the US, what advantage does this have over walking into Wal-mart and buying a nice new gun?
Also, how much would you trust a 100 year old gun?
AR-15 Man
Frequent Poster
Posts: 176
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 04, 2001 06:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No paper trail!!! Yea you bet you can trust those Mosin-Nagants. They may of been made over 100 years ago but they are used in wars even today. If you don't wanna a 100 year old gun then check out NBK's PDF (shouldn't that be required reading here and maybe someone should make a check list of things for people to read here). Anyways, it show of company's that sell "kit guns" where it only takes a little patience and time to finish the gun. Others include STEN kits. Or maybe a Zip Gun if you don't need a follow up shot (or make a multi barreled one).
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 04, 2001 07:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I see, so you could get a gun if were a felon or otherwise don't supposed to have one.
Jumala
Frequent Poster
Posts: 199
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 04, 2001 08:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here in germany you can buy blackpowderguns when you are over 18 too.
I have some rebuild guns. One flintlock musket cal .75, one Enfield rifled musket ca. .58 and some smaller rifles.
They have good power and precision.
Now I“m looking for a Sharps rifle cal .54.
There are some good pieces on the market but they“re fucking expensive.
Here is a link for BP rifles: <a href="http://www.davide-pedersoli.com" target="_blank">http://www.davide-pedersoli.com</a>
[This message has been edited by Jumala (edited January 04, 2001).]
Hardcore
A new voice
Posts: 18
From: Hague ,NL
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another interesting UK thing is hand guns are
a no no..but saw this advert for a 44 magnum
that is legal in the UK ,barrel is 32 inches long so its classed as a rifle....need license tho .....which kinda sucks but at the expense of long range accuracy you could probably saw off the barrel or replace it with a normal length one....makes the one in batman returns (that the joker had) look
quite short
Machiavelli
Frequent Poster
Posts: 278
From: Germany
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 09, 2001 10:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here“s a nice comprehensive article on the subject: <a href="http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/LegalFirearms.htm" target="_blank">http://www.loompanics.com/Articles/LegalFirearms.htm</a>
viper01
Frequent Poster
Posts: 77
From: UK
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 10, 2001 11:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cartridge pistols may be illegal but you can still buy black powder 6 shot .44 cal revolvers on a licence or of ticket if antique.
------------------
Happiness is a big bang!
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 10, 2001 02:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've also seen adverts for pistol/rifle hybrids. Shooters are getting round the ridiculous hand-gun ban by either lengthening the barrel or stock. I've seen adverts for handguns which have a barrel longer than usual and also a part of the pistol grip, right at the bottom, jutting back for no other purpose than lengthening the gun.
If it was down to barrel length alone, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the larger Desert Eagles would be classed as rifles!
Does anybody know if assault rifles with the gas parts removed are legal or not? All rifles with a larger calibre than .22 rimfire were made illegal in semi-auto after the 'hungerford massacre', but I don't think it's illegal to have a magazine if the gun needs to be cocked maually every shot.
J
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 10, 2001 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe the only requirement for it to be a rifle is to have a barrel length of over 12" - so you can now get some nice 12.5" barreled revolvers!
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 11, 2001 01:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes J, they are legal, in any calibre i think, with any size mag (and a silencer) as long as they are manually cocked each time. Saw an article on a AK-47 lookalike, 7.62mm, manual cocking.
------------------
Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
Visit me at <a href="http://www.surf.to/eliteforum" target="_blank">www.surf.to/eliteforum</a>
wiredfreak
A new voice
Posts: 17
From: none of yuor fu**ing bissnes USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 23, 2001 12:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to: Mmanwitgun
go to a book/magazine store and buy a copy of the Shotgun News, its a big magazine with a bunch of catologs and ads in it.
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 223
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 03:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I must argue that Gun Mart is better.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 24, 2001 05:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What are the UK laws about firing other people's guns? I was in the CCF at school, and shot a non-auto 5.56mm L98-A1, and a full-auto LSW with a 30 round mag when only 14! Obviously I was at a firing range under military supervision, but I don't think this would be legal normally, would it? Like if you were on someone else's land, would you be allowed to use their guns if they had a liscence?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 05:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFAIK, you only need a license to purchase and own a firearm. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to go clay pigeon shooting on a corporate outing.
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 24, 2001 08:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About C&R stuff of US, check out "SHOTGUN NEWS" for listings.
Old Mosin-Nagants are shootable but sometimes
they need you to sign a "non-shooting" statement in case you blew up the gun and killed youself they will not be held responsible. Nagants ammo's are available today too.
Stay very far away from those pre-1905 8mm mausers like the "commission mauser". Their bores are of .319" too small
for post-1905 .323" bullets. .319" bullets and loads are no longer in production today.
Though US firms load their 8mm "underpower"
in case someone fired .323" in a .319" (Yes in this case it's not a hazard but not recommended. All 8mm load you see today in US are underpowered, only handloaders can bring out their "can drop any American big games" potential.)
.319" is known as "J bore" or "I bore"
whereas .323" is known as "S bore" or "JS bore"
For example 7.92x57 S Mauser is the same as 8X57 JS Mauser.
Another thing : If you got yourself a bolt gun like the Nagant, get a gunsmith to check
"headspace" for you. It will cost some money
but it will ensure safety.(Sometimes they mix
or match bolts and receivers, thus cause gross headspace problem, cartridge rupture and can kill the shooter.)