Spudgunner
A new voice
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 05, 2001 08:27 PM
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I recently made a chest plate piece of light duty armor out of an old music stand, which I am almost positive is aluminum, or some tough mix with aluminum that is 1/16 inch thick. I cut it to an octagonal shape that is taller than wide. I cut off corners so when hit they would not dig into the shoulders. I also bent it to fit my shape somewhat. What I did to test it was fold a small rag up so it was about 4"X4" and less than half inch thick, put that towards top. Then i taped it one, and put it over my thin shirt. I then took a steel rod that was 3 feet long and hit self as hard as I could while holding it in middle. Didnt feel a thing. Then took a hammer, and hit self quite hard, but not on hammer tip, but layed flat. What I am wondering is what would puncture it? It seems to be quite durable, and most definatly cut proof. I am also pretty sure that I am not gonna have to ever use it, but hey, its fun. Another thing, is there ever a use for this? Since it is only 1/16" thick, and somewhat tall, if you were running and fell over just right, it might cut your neck, but not if you kept the top low. But once again, i am wondering is it worth it? It weighs basically nothing. I dont exactly want to try it myself, because my knives are not worth messign up, even the crap ones.
Spud


PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 08:42 PM
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you could use it for paintball if it fits comfortably to your body beacuse paintballs just fuckin hurt when they hit your stomach 2nd is your fingers, this would probably stop a bb or pellet but I wouldnt use it for much else cept if you were to provoke a fight and hide this under your shirt so he breaks his hand!


Spudgunner
A new voice
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 05, 2001 09:15 PM
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Hehe, that would be funny if the person broke their hand. I think i might use it for paintball, but it is a little large. Last time I went, I only got hit in the mask and gun. I am not sure this thing would be small enough for paintball, would be hard to bend over or be flexible, but then again most of the time, you are crouched, not bent over (if you are bent over, dont want to know what you are doing). What i was wondering more was how you all think it would perform against maybe a knife or anything else. I know its still gonna hurt like nothing else in the world if you say, got hit by a bat. But I am thinking it might prevent a broken rib or something.
Spud


phyrelord
Frequent Poster
Posts: 135
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 05, 2001 09:31 PM
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it depends on how your hit if it is a thrust it may go through especially if the guy doing it is big or the blade is a tanto point. now if it's a cut or slashing motion i doubt it will penetrate it. what ever you do don't shoot arrows at it they will penetrate more than you think, especially kevlar believe it or not my uncle shot an arrow through kevlar, but i think it was only first generation so that might explain it.


PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 05, 2001 10:04 PM
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well what about hinging it? just put some rivets in it and use small hinges to make it flexable so you have several plates instead of one, if you could get more stands you could attach them together by wire of something and make a vest you must be able to cut them well to do something like this and be able to get the pannels really close.


DaRkDwArF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 258
From: Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 06, 2001 03:45 AM
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lol umm get tramua plates for it, don't shoot anything at it othre than a BB gun, paintball gun or airrifle and you should be fine


endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 06, 2001 07:54 PM
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Don't understimate the power of a bb gun. A .177 bb travelling at 1000 fps, which many pellet rifles do, could possibley penetrate 1/16 inchg steel. All i know is that in 6th grade my friend shot a bb through 6 slabs of ice and right through a steel above ground pool, we tried to plug it up, but the structurual integrity gave and the whole side of the pool collapsed in an hour


PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 06, 2001 08:11 PM
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you see, bb's ricochet when fired directly at a metal surface and pellets flatten out, I have seen the music stands he is talking about and they wil stop a pellet beacuse they dont have a very good sectional density, now 22 pellets, well that's another story


endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 07, 2001 05:09 PM
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BB's ricochet when fired at a metal surface, i disagree, possibley because the bb's i use(copperhead,are copper-coated lead,i know they don't ricochet at 1000 fps. Unless there is a lot (1/5 of an ich) of backing, a high quality rifle will penetrate


ST
Frequent Poster
Posts: 100
From: 000
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 07, 2001 05:25 PM
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Lead air rifle slugs have higher sectional density than, and will deliver more energy and penetrate better than steel bb's, though i dont think .22 cal slugs would have (much) more sectional density than .177, due to the greater surface area.
(i think lead slugs weigh around 8 grains, compaired to 5 for steel bb's).

If you fire steel bb's at steel plate, she'll come back at you hard and fast , but it wont be a problem with sheat metal.

[This message has been edited by ST (edited February 07, 2001).]


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 07, 2001 06:03 PM
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I think 1000fps is a little over-rated for a BB gun, since a few more fps and it'd go supersonic, something which air rifles don't tend to do for stability reasons.
If you want to make holes in things with an air rifle, use Prometheus pellets, a steel spear in a nylon sabot/jacket, sails straight through 1mm steel.

Incidentally, I tried shooting a 1.5mm transparent(ish) fibreglass PCB, it stopped a .177 lead pellet with ease at 12fpe.


endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 07, 2001 08:17 PM
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My air gun which i purchased reasoably for 250.00 goes 1250 fps, it suprisingly doesnt lose muchaccuracy before 40 yards, and it's actual velocity is 1126, i chronied it, if u are interested in it i will send a link to a website with it...i could if you'd like, but i was not speaking theoretically, what i know is that this gun shoots high 1000's and puts my coppercoated bb's through decently thick sheet metal from a old abandoned trailer home


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 08, 2001 08:35 AM
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Was the gun intended for solely firing BB's? Becuase a high powered air rifle may well be sub sonic but stick a BB in it and it could easily go super sonic. I said that about most air rifles being sub-sonic beacause pellets work best upto (IIRC) 950fps, higher and they become unstable. Also the shockwave created at Mach 1 tends to make pellets tumble, plus if they then drop below Mach 1 downrange then accuracy gets even worse.


endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 08, 2001 03:18 PM
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The pellet rifle was intended for pellets but i use bb's they don't slide out of the barrel unless you really hold it upside down


Spudgunner
A new voice
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 08, 2001 09:25 PM
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Well, i tested out the armor with the crappy pellet gun i have. I used 15 grain pointed crossman (I think) pellets. The gun is .22, and supposed to get 850 fps, but when I tested it out with the crappy pellets that came with it, it got 550 or maybe 450. I imagine it goes faster with these good pellets. Anyway, it just dented the metal at point blank range. Pellet expanded to about .30 or so, and had 100% or so weight retention. The only lead lost was a little mark like you had drawn a circle. I saw that one post on increasing velocities, so if/when I find some brass, I want to try that.
Spud


Sgt_Starr
Frequent Poster
Posts: 119
From: Petersburg
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 10, 2001 06:45 PM
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My pellet gun is supposidly supposed to get 495fps thats what is said on the box(got it at wal-mart for 34 bucks) I dented a slimfast can wich is pretty thick 15-20 yards and it knocked the can 5 ft away from the stand I had it on I tried shooting the can with the muzzle of the gun dirrectly against the metal so that it wouldnt riccochete and hit me(had that happen from at 15 ft away and it almost punctured the skin) It did pierce the can put didnt enter it just split the dent. I also tried shooting a quater from about 10 ft away and I hit the edge of the quater splitting the pellet down to about 3 cm from the end. Is this good for 400's fps?


Spudgunner
A new voice
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 10, 2001 07:28 PM
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Well, that does not sound bad for that speed, or that price. I paid $35 for this chinese gun. That is still not bad for .22 at 500 fps, although my potato gun goes faster than that. I made an armor piercing pellet today and tested that. I had an old track spike, 1/4" i think needle. I thought "hmm, that looks about the right size for my pellet gun". Well, i did have to grind down part of it. Then, my pointed pellets have a little groove where the skirt meets the head. I took an exacto and cut that very easily. Then I sanded it approximatly 90 degrees so it stood up straight. Then, I put a ring of CA (super/crazy glue) on the skirt, which had a hole in the middle. I held on the track spike and it bonded VERY well. The normal pellets weighed 15 grains, but this AP one weighed 24 grains exactly. The pellet ended up being .655 inches long compared to about .35 for normal pellet. It turned out very straight and fit into gun well. It pierced the metal but bounced back off after it got to a part that was squar to the point. I am going to test the next one I made just now. What I just did was grind off the square part so now it is a long point, instead of a short one with a square spot. It is 22.4 grains now. Ok, I just tested it. The hole is somewhat bigger, but not much. This shot the skirt seperated and flew off and hit a couple walls in my room unlike last time, where the skirt was only bent some. The larger of the 2 holes is about .084 or .083 inches. Not real big, but this is against metal. These would be vicious against flesh I bet. I cannot verify accuracy, as I cant test these in the city limits with a cop living behind me . The gun is an inaccurate piece anyway. But I bet these pellets would stabilize decently since they are only 50% heavier. I know they make 28 or 30 grain pellets, so I bet these would do decently. Since the track spikes I use cost like 15 cents each, I might have to try other stuff. But I sure do like these long pellets, they look cool.
Spud


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 10, 2001 08:26 PM
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You should definately try Prometheus pellets, so much easier and cheaper than making them!
Also any got any idea of the maximum range from a 12fpe air rifle? The warning that came with my springer said "may be dangerous upto 300yds". Execept I was talking to a guy in the gun shop today about getting a PCP, we got talking about efective range and he said he'd taken a starling off a fence post (clean kill) at 100yds. He also claimed to have taken pot shots at a flock of ducks 700yds away and could see the pellets hitting the water they were in! This guy's got more PCP's than I've got fingers, is he talking crap or just very bad at paceing distances?


zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 10, 2001 09:23 PM
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i think he's bullshitting a little bit, a starling at 100 yards? Aren't they a little small? Anyway, i think the effective range for a .22LR rifle is 150 odd yards, so i don't think that he could have done it, unless he was using an FAC rifle, like a custom stalker rifle, uprated to like 300 ft/lbs
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Spudgunner
A new voice
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 10, 2001 09:34 PM
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He may not be kidding. There are pellet rifles that will shoot those 30 grain pellets a bit over 1000 fps. Sure, they are precharged 3000 psi scuba stuff, but maybe he has one of those? Those are made for shooting stuff, so if he had a scope, it could be possible. Plus, nobody ever mentioned how many shots he took did they? Those precharged ones can shoot like 15 times. And at 100 yards, it would not make a real loud noise either.


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 10, 2001 09:38 PM
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No way! A .22LR goes much further than 150yds! An average modern air rifle can hit a drawing pin at 50yds so a starling at 100yds doesn't sound too unfeasible, I definately remember him saying the starling shot was with a 12fpe rifle. I'm not sure but the 700yd story might have been with the 20fpe rifle he dropped into the conversation.
I basically want to know what the maximum range is (ie before the pellet drops to the ground) not the effective range.

BTW the stalkers can be tuned upto 340fpe! Shame I haven't got £3300 to spare


zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 403
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 10, 2001 09:54 PM
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Yeah, i know .22's go for way more than 150 yards, but i was meaning effective range or something like that. People who shoot 12ft/lb air rifles shoot up to 50 yards, thats for kills on birds etc. Thats not to say that the pellet doesn't go further, but the curve it like too great, and its just damn hard!
What i meant with the .22LR thing, is that although the bullet may be able to travel way further than 150 yards, a magazine said this is the maximum limit people usually shoot out to. This is different because of the less pronounced curve etc. Hope this has cleared up what i said!

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Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
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Spudgunner
A new voice
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 10, 2001 10:15 PM
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Sorry bout last post, forgot we were talking about 12 foot pound air guns. BTW, how many ft lbs would one of those 30 grain pellets at 1000 fps have?


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 10, 2001 10:50 PM
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66.63113006396588fpe
Got you about the effective range, but I still reckon you could hit accurately over 150yds with a .22LR, you might have to hold over a bit, or zero your scope accordingly.

Spudgunner, nearlyu all PCP's are charged to 3000psi.


Spudgunner
A new voice
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 10, 2001 11:01 PM
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Ok, 66 is not bad. I was not sure what a PCP was, so I ignored that part of it. Effective range for a .22lr can be well over 200 yards, depending on ammo. I think I read that Aguila (?) SSS 60grain bullets are good to over 200 yards. And if you had your scope ready, you could easily hit something with that. But with regular .22, if there was any wind, it would be VERY hard to hit anything. However, I am sure it can be done with a little practice.

I bet that armor made out of things lying around the house won't be too good. :rolleyes: Does anyone know how to make something similar to a military flak jacket? You might need one if the North Koreans invade. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> (a flak jacket is NOT a bullet proof vest)

It shouldnt be too hard, you could simply sew galvanised steel plating into a heavy canvas, or leather jacket. Of course in an urban enviroment you have about a 0.001% chance of being hit by anything but a bullet. It could prove useful while testing shrapnel dispensing devices though.

I found some pretty good stuff for body armour. I sort of works like kevlar jacket, but insted of kevlar its saran wrap. I work in a resturant so they have these huge tubes of it. The tube is about 2.5 inches across with 2000 feet of saran all around it. I took one of these home half used and cut the wrap off, it was about .25 inches thick stuck together very tightly. Well i was using the tube as maybe being a mortor and i noticed how stong the wrap was. It can stop .177 caliber lead pellets at 600fps .5 inches away, flatting them out. BBs at 600fps will just bounce off. I i think of taking a new tube home with wrap that will make a vest .375-.4 inches thick.

Considering the huge number of layers, it probably is quite good at stopping projectiles for what it is. But don't be too confident in its capabilities. For example 1/4" of compressed cotton wool will stop a .177 pellet at approx 850fps, as will 1/16" fibreglass PCB.

A while ago, I started making this protective suit. I haven't finished it yet, as I've been busy since then, but I'll post some pictures of it when it's done.

I'm a whitewater canoeing instructor during the summer, but I also do a lot of boat maintenance and repair. What I noticed lying around my work place last year was a huge role of Kevlar for boat skid-plate repair. When I start working again this year I may help my self to a raise in the form of Kevlar and see what I can create with it.

It's a lot cheaper to buy flak jackets than to make them. I have about 11 of them. The most expensive was $600, the cheapest were free, I got one out of the trash, an almost new PAGST. I paid $10 for the M-1969. I've seen PASGT level II and M-1969's go for under $15 and they will stop a .45 or other heavy pistol slug. The PASGT will stop about anything under 1,200 fps even 9mm and .44 mag.

3 PASGT's
2 AirCrewman Gunner's Vest's
1 Variable Armor
1 Molle Interceptor
1 M 1969
1 M 1955
1 German Flecktarn.
1 CVC Vest
1 Set of Diapers
2 Kevlar Helmets
1 Russian Titanium Helmet

Some of them have Ceramic Plates that with stop .30-06 Black Tip AP and are Molle compatible. The interceptor is level IIIA with SAPI Gamma plates which will take multiple 7.62 M-80 hits, it may not be a "Bullet Proof Vest" by definition but it's better than what the average cop wears, hell it's better than what the SWAT wear. I'm a big armor guy, I've also got some pieces of chain mail and homemade tire armor like out of Demolition Man. That stuff is pretty tough it could probably stop .22 LR or #8 Bird Shot if you had a good tread and depending on what kind of tire one used. I've also heard of some people who cut up stolen road signs and get out the duct-tape and pop rivet guns, for backyard gladiator games. I'm currently in a few projects one of which is a light armored suit, I bought a SF jump suit that is used for jumping into heavily wooded areas and has pockets inside for padding like what smoke-jumpers wear. It's woodland camo and really tough, kind of like an M-65 field jacket, but I'm finding the total wieght of all the Kevlar will make it like an EOD suit. So I'm looking into other materials, to save wieght. We'll see what happens.

stickfigure, are you sure those vests you have are flak (frag) vests and not actual bullet resistant vests? From what I've heard, frag vests are usually stuffed with loose kevlar and glass fibres. The only thing I've heard cermaic plates used in is high level bullet vests.

The vests used in NI are normal kevlar vests with a ceramic iniba/eneba plate fitted into a pocket on the front and rear of the vest in the area over your heart. I don't know if that's the sort of thing he has in mind?

Most of them are considered Flak Vests. The PASGT are actually bullet resistant and are the lower end of the scale. The M-1969 and M-1955 are Ballistic Nylon and the M-1955 is lined with Fiber Glass plates sewn in to pockets. The Variable armor has Nylon felt in the in main vest with Ceramic Plates in pockets on the outside. The Gunner's vests are only padded with thick plates rated to .30-06 AP stand alone. The plates are full chest and back molded to fit the contures of ones torso. Now the Interceptor is the top of the line made by point blank is a level IIIA+ with chest and back Gamma plates that are level III+ stand alone. The Gamma plates stats are listed as:

Multi-hit capability for:
Defeats 7.62x54Rmm LPS 148 gr. at 2,400+ fps
Defeats 5.56x45mm M855 Ball 62 gr. at 3,300+ fps
Defeats 7.62x51mm M80 at 2925+ fps
Defeats 7.62mm NATO 148 gr. at 2780 fps
With no additional ballistic support.

These plates are 10x12 and weigh about 5.2lb each, the vest has a collar, throat protector and a cod piece which I bolstered by stuffing a small titanium chest plate into...got to protect a man's most important assests. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> As to your questions Anthony I've inspected these vests and others and I haven't seen any that have loose materials. The CVC vest has seperate layers and one can add more or less as one sees fit, it's is the most concellable vest I have. They all sewn in specific layers and usually have a carrier for the insert. The German Vest has been tested by a guy at:

<a href="http://www.savvysurvivor.com/body_armor_ballistic_tests.htm" target="_blank">http://www.savvysurvivor.com/body_armor_ballistic_tests.htm</a>

The PASGT's were tested in an issue of American Survival Mag wear they put it to the test with a .44 mag. I don't have the issue anymore, but it stopped the Magnum.

My friend's brother works at Point Blank in the test and design division she said that they do live tests on their vests and they all stand up to their claims. Enough that some of the guys actually put the vests on and get shot. I'm not sure that they do it with the rifle rounds but the smaller stuff I'm sure they would. I'm moving to Florida here in a couple of months, I will be visiting him at Point Blank to check it out personally. I'll add more to this later.

One of the guys at the local fishing shop has a sideline business dealing in body armour. He's just got a government contract to check the ceramic plates in their armour for hairline fractures. Apparently, they wont stop armour piercing rounds if they are cracked. These things have to be handled with kid gloves if they are to last, but most of the guys who use them don't know/care so they get dumped in the backed of the ute with half a tonne of crap dumped on top. I suggested he use fluoracine (sp?) dye to highlight any fractures (he was going to X-ray the buggers) - anybody else got any bright ideas?

Anyway - might be a good idea to check your found/cheap gear before you trust it with your life!

Your advice is noted but, these aren't ceramic plates like a piece of floor tile or fine china. These vests are layered and they are sealed in epoxy resin and in the case of the Variable Vest have a layer of ballistic nylon glued to the Front for spall entrapment. The SAPI Plates are composite and have several differant layers including what appears to be textured wire mesh. These plates are encased in a rubber PVC type material that resembles the material on plyers handles, for spall. Fluoroscopic examination on the ceramic itself would be impossible, I have the facilities down at NDI to do it, but it's pointless. Most of the vests I have are new and in the case of the plated vests none of them have been issued. The Intercepetor came new from Point Blank, as for used kevlar it degrades when exposed to the elements especially sunlight over time. The only way to test it is shooting it, therefore destroying it. I feel confident with the plated vests especially the Interceptor, it gets heavy but after sitting around in it all week on an exercise you get used to it. Not because it's comfortable but because you have to.

This may sound like a flame, but why would anyone have 11 protective vests? Are you intending to make full body armor from the extras like the North Hollywood bank robbers? I think full body armor is mostly overlooked, but when the pigs realize your wearing a BPV they'll aim for your head and your legs next.

Designing your own also offers the benefit of being able to layer areas of the vest that are too thin. Either through manufacturing defect (shit happens) or lower specifications some vests will not stop medium velocity rounds.

Wouldn't take much to make a full body suit, but I think you'd be better off keeping them for mobility, keep a helmet and vest at home, a helmet and vest in your stash and sell/give the others to people you really care about for a discount rate.

Then again I suppose it all depends on what the grand plan is for those things :)

A test of some PASGT body armour:

<u>Surprise Tech Time</u><br><br>
John Boch - Combat Body Armor Ballistic Tests<br><br>
John Boch brought samples of combat body armor, or as they are more commonly known, frag vests or flak jackets. He described for the audience his interests in determining if the vests, made of ballistic nylon (Kevlar), offered any ballistic protection against small arms fire. The first vest he showed the audience was a British frag vest that is currently issued to British troops. Boch said he purchased the vest five or six years ago for about $35 from Sportsmen's Guide. <br><br> Boch said he decided to test the vest by placing it around a large "person size" log to simulate a wearer. The hard log would, he believed, increase the stress on the vest. Because the wood would not "give" behind the point of impact, it would increase the shear stress on the fibers, increasing the likelihood that the slug would defeat the vest. <br><br>
Standing about twelve feet away with a 4" S&W revolver loaded with Winchester "white box" .357 Magnum 110gr. JHP ammo, he fired a shot into the lower part of the rear panel. Upon investigating the point of impact, it was clear that the slug did not penetrate the vest. It was found about two-thirds of the way through the ballistic panel. The inside face of the panel was cracked and the fabric shell around the vest was damaged from the back-face deformation caused by the slug, which crushed the fabric against the wood. <br><br>
Boch said that the wearer would almost certainly have been injured to some degree by bruising or worse from the backside deformation. The other vest Boch brought was a vest just like those currently in service with the U.S. Armed Forces, the Personal Armor System, Ground Troops (PASGT). The PASGT armor is being gradually replaced by the new Interceptor body armor system that is superior in both weight and ballistic protection for the wearer. PASGT armor is composed of 13 layers of Kevlar 29 material. It was introduced in the early to mid-1980's and has saved many lives. Without the heavy ceramic ballistic panels, the PASGT vest is supposed to protect against only shrapnel threats - not firearm projectiles. Boch bought his copies of PASGT vests for about $45 also from Sportsmen's Guide. He expects that many more surplus PASGT vests will find their way onto the market in the near future as the Interceptor vests replace them. <br><br>
Boch said he will do some ballistic testing on the American body armor and determine just how well it will stop projectiles. "We'll start out with a .22, work our way up to a .357 Magnum and if it's doing well, if someone will loan me a .44 Magnum we'll hit it with that and see what happens." Look for the results at August's meeting. <br><br>
U.S. PASGT vest torture test Mayview, IL (GSL.com) - The U.S. Personal Armor Sytem, Ground Troops protective vest was introduced to American troops in the early 1980's. Constructed of Kevlar-29 fabric, it was designed and built to protect soldiers from fragmentation injuries. Today, these vests are being phased out with the adoption of the new and vastly superior Interceptor Body Armor system. The U.S. PASGT vest. <br><br>
In all the available literature, these PASGT vests are reported to be ineffective against small arms fire. However, as the ballistic component was made of the famous, bullet-snaring Kevlar, we wanted to know if these vests, now available at surplus stores and by mail order for less than $50 apiece, would serve as poor-man's body armor against pistol rounds. <br><br>
We set up the test by placing the vest over two 30 pound bags of Yesterday's News litter. We fired from about ten feet away and inspected the vest after each shot.<br><br>
We began shooting the vests with rounds from 9mm caliber and worked our way up to .44 Magnum. The only round the vest was unable to defeat was a 9mm Federal 115gr. FMJ round. While it passed through the vest, it had very little remaining energy and didn't even pass through the first bag of litter. When we backed up to 15 yards, the vest stopped the 9mm FMJ round. To summarize, the vest stopped the hollowpoint bullets cold, even the venerable .44 Magnum. Round-nosed slugs presented more difficulty, but the vest caught these rounds as well (except the short-range 9mm FMJ).<br><br>
The wearer of this vest will quite possibly face blunt force injuries on the back side of a bullet impact, particularly in larger calibers. However, the risk of possible serious injury is vastly superior to certain injury from a bullet wound.<br><br>
We won't warrant any of these vests. However, all things being equal, if you can't afford modern body armor, these PASGT vests are certainly better than nothing against most handgun threats. Just don't let the bad guys get too close!

Here are our results and notes.
<table border="1"><tr><td>From ten feet:</td><td>Notes</td></tr>
<tr><td>9mm Federal 115gr. FMJ</td><td>Complete penetration with
very little remaining energy</td></tr>
<tr><td>9mm +P+ Corbon 115gr. JHP</td><td>Stopped</td></tr>
<tr><td>.357 Mag. Federal 125gr. JHP</td><td>Stopped</td></tr>
<tr><td>.357 Mag. S&W 158gr. JSP</td><td>Stopped ... barely</td></tr>
<tr><td>.357 Mag. 160gr. Silhouette</td><td>Stopped</td></tr>
<tr><td>.41 Mag. 210gr. JHP</td><td>Stopped</td></tr>
<tr><td>.44 Mag. (reload) 240gr. SWC</td><td>Bounced off vest!</td></tr>
<tr><td>.44 Mag. 240gr. XTP</td><td>Stopped</td></tr>
<tr><td>From 45 feet:</td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td>9mm Federal 115gr. FMJ</td><td>Stopped</td></tr>
</table>
<br>
Special thanks to Jim Gabbard for allowing us to use his backyard
range for the PASGT challenge!
<br>
Source: www.gunssavelife.com/GSLife/gunnews/aug2003secure.pdf
& www.gunssavelife.com/GSLife/gunnews/sept2003secure.pdf

I read in some book for homemade armoring of vehicles that 1/2 inch(1,25 cm) of Al is required for stopping the bullet from submachine gun. This does not count the blunt trauma which can be very dangerous to anybody wearing this armor. With soft metal like aluminum this event require even more care than steel armor, for example.

This does not count the blunt trauma which can be very dangerous to anybody wearing this armor. With soft metal like aluminum this event require even more care than steel armor, for example.

Maybe if something strong and hard were mounted on the inside of the plates, it could stop the bullet from making such a huge dent in the aluminum, so that the kinetic energy is more evenly transfered throughout the entire vest? Moderately thick plates of spring steel, maybe? They could be bolted or sanded and epoxied with something strong. I could be talking out of my ass here, though.

Hmmm... I think that better than something hard would be something soft, because soft materials wil dissipate the trauma alot, this is why they are used as bullet-proof vest "backing".
However, two years ago I read in some weapon magazine that a cop was killed by sabot slug from shotgun, although none of the kevlar layers of his bullet proof vest were penetrated, only ceramic shield was shattered. He was killed by the massive blunt trauma of the sabot.
When some unlawful person starts shooting sabot slugs from sawed-off(or any else, basically) shotgun, it is bad time to be cop. :rolleyes: