Well, do ya punk? (Note to any members named punk - this is not addressed to you personally.:D)

I mentioned this earlier elsewhere, and was surprised to find just a day or two later that the forum is now searchable through Google. To understand the nature of my post, I think everyone should have a trawl through the following website:

www.google-watch.org

The gist: Orwell got it wrong. We don't say "Yes, Big Brother." It implies that we're the little brother. In reality. We're babies. We're expected to say "Ga-Ga-Google!"

I won't second-guess the mods. If they feel it's cool to link RS.org through google I'm sure they've got all the cons down. I certainly couldn't match them on a technical front. My real topic is in the title: Do You Trust Google?

Do us Rogue Scientists trust Google? Perhaps one of the mods might see fit to make this a poll.

And on a related note, what, if any, (I hope some) steps do you take to protect yourself on this and similar websites, or when searching or uploading our kind of hobbyist literature/material?

If anyone wants it, I have a Rapidshare link to some very good IP-blocking software with a keygen, all virus-free. However, if I can digress a little further, when this software links you through its French proxy you'll have to hit the change IP button to see roguesci.org, because all you'll get is a page blocking the forum!

What other sites/ISPs blocks the forum? Another topic, I think.

"Agressif, terrorisme, r�visionnisme, discrimination." I don't speak French but that sounds like us all right! :D

I certainly don't trust google after the fedgov extorted the list of lolita related search terms. That may be their reason to get the list, but now they can run search analytics on any terms. Criticize the government? The FBI wants to know. Want to buy hemp cloths? The DEA is interested. Looking to vacation in the Caribbean? The IRS is curious. Like nigger jokes? The District Attorney likes you now, as a perp.

Oh how will we protect the children is the beginning of the very slippery slope to despotism. Unfortunately the US government basically owns the Internet, at least it acts like it does. Unless you sneak into a public library and secretly use a computer, they are going to find out what everyone is up too.

The good news is the Internet is too big for the US government to police. Does the FBI have enough man power to monitor the activity of 2 billion people? You know everyone of them is looking at porn at least half the time (the Internet is for porn...) so whatever junior agent gets to troll through the search term list is still on letter A.

I have to list the site with google. It is a deal with the devil. No google means no traffic, and no traffic means no Forum. Given the choice between no one knowing we exist vs getting the knowledge out there but with the fedgov picking up on it is a tough decision.

It looks like the U.S. Government and Google will have caught alots of innocent people and not go after the real bad guys.

I was looking for some self defense information about old school WWII hand to hand combat through some free e-books from Paladin Press and came to the Roguesci literature and links webpage. I never typed in Roguesci to even begin with.

I became curious after reading about different topics like explosives, because there are two big rocks in the river that I would like to get rid of and have a nice swimming hole during the summertime. Does that make me a terrorist ? No way !!!!! I would imagine to obtain a license, paperwork and all of that just for two rocks to be exploded would cost me alots of money plus the government these days are not that so friendly and the government has harrassed many innocent people.

If the government wants to be friendly to innocent people then lower the price, cut the red tape and no fear of harrassment and then I will be able to have the construction guys place explosives in the river to get rid of the two big rocks in a much, much more safe manner. I am sure alots of people who own private properties would love a nice swimming hole. I would be more than happy to pay $200. for two dynamite sticks then just $50. for government paperwork to have everything done 100% legally and approved by the U.S. Government. I think the U.S. Government needs to be more friendly to the private property owners which makes the whole thing much more safer and a more enjoyable experience for all concerned.

I also can understand how anothers enjoy blowing up things as a hobby as long as done on private property and nobody is getting hurt and using safety goggles, rubber gloves, lab science measuring glasses and all another safety equipment on hand. Don't be stupid with explosives and always put safety first.

That may lead people to have a positive and a very appropriate career in the construction and mining industry or apply to be a policeman and be on the bomb squad or enlist in the U.S. Military to be an E.O.D. specialist or work with engineering and demolitions for controlled implosions of old football stadiums, things like that in a very positive and an appropriate way.

It all depends on the person and the path he or she takes with studying explosives. If the person is going to study for a good career then that is great but if the person is going to use explosives for evil purposes such as suicide bomb vests or put explosives somewhere people can get hurt and killed then that is really evil. That is where the US Government and Google should step in and go after these bad guys.

Like everything else in life, it all depends on wheter you use something for good or for evil, I hope for good. Most people have enough common-sense not to play with explosives but some of the books on here make for very interesting reading, Does that make me a criminal or a terrorist ? No it doesn't.

That is freedom of speech and it could lead people to a good future career in explosives depending what field they go in for like the construction industry or counter-terrorism etc.

I agree with most everything said above. It's a trade-off worth making right? And we each need to take responsibility for our own privacy, not just bitch about Google.

Just one point, WWII:

nobody is getting hurt and using safety goggles, rubber gloves

I'm not sure rubber gloves and safety goggles are quite adequate protection when bombing the fuck out of your local river with home-made explosives to make a swimming hole! :D

I would suggest at least a leather jacket and a warm scarf. And stand behind a small plant or sapling, as a million jagged shards of searing hot rock shrapnel flying at a thousand metres per second can chafe a tad. (I know from experience.) And maybe a net to catch all the dead fish. Wouldn't want to attract bears.

"My eyes! The goggles do nothing!" :D

Seriously, though, good luck with the project. Do tell us the chemical details and how it turned out if you ever get round to it!

As regards who to trust, well, I think Google are all pervasive, and at least they stood up and said No to the US gov. so they at least had to get a court order for the data.

IIRC others rolled over without much pressure, like Yahoo.

Microshaft and eBay, on the other hand, pride themselves in handing data to the cops for fun. Mickey$oft like the government pork contracts they get every year, and eBay are paranoid about being shut down for all the shit they let get past them, so seek to assuage the Man with freely passed private data.

eBay own PayPal and Skype. So I no longer trust Skype! It was the best choice (it still is!) as it is encrypted end to end, but obviously eBay can happily log every single line of text, and almost certainly do, even though most countries (unlike the UK) don't demand everything be stored and turned over on request.

(I should probably have a look for a secondary encryption layer add-on for Skype. Share keys, then you could be properly secured for chat and voice and even video comms over the internet.)

I certainly don't trust google, or any other search engine for that matter. However, I still use it almost exsclusively. I'm not a terrorist and don't engage in too much activity that is punishable by a considerable amount of jail/prison time so I tend to take that approach when searching for content.

Perhaps, maybe I shouldn't?

I've never blocked my ip for anything- not out of sheer stupidity, but more out of sheer ignorance. Or maybe (after reading how Google cookies are good until 2038) it is sheer stupidity.

I have a cable modem (static IP address), and pretty much count on everything I send/download being snooped by my ISP. I've always wanted to counter anybody spying on my activites to a reasonable extent but have never taken the time to find out how.

Maybe someone could clue me in on the possible measures that can be taken to minimize my risk of a visit from F.B.I. , D.E.A., A.T.F. or god knows who?

I've heard about "The Cloak" webiste, but it seems they don't offer any more protection than a free proxy.

I also remember hearing about Google announcing that they delete all records of searches after a 2 year period.

I've downloaded many,many gigs of "red flag" content over the past few weeks (Thanks mostly to this great site!) and have now become a little paranoid.

Any chance someone could fill me in on what I've done wrong and how to do it better?

Are proxies really "safe" or at least worthwhile?

How does the process materialize for a law enforcement agency to request any information from Google that would bring me to their attention or justify the cause for further action?

How could one post on this great site- totally anonomously with my ISP knowing nothing about it, along with any other potential snoops? Is it at all possible?

How far-fetched is it that if I was ever under any investigation of any sort that they would be able to print out every "questionable" thing I've ever downloaded, uploaded, talked about in an email/froum/chat room etc...

I use Vonage for all telephone communication- can they eavesdrop on that too?

Unless you sneak into a public library and secretly use a computer, they are going to find out what everyone is up to.

Forget the Library, you have to give your i.d. to get a library card and you have to give your library card to use a library computer, as soon as they make you have to get a password to use a library computer (any second) they can tell everything you do on a library computer.

I used to be a tough motha that thought I could kill a beyach at the ATM ifin he tried to rob me, but I got myself ass raped instead. Now I like to troll the ghetto lookin for niggaz to ass rape me cause I like it!

I think I was going to write something nasty about you guys cause I posted 20 times in an hour and none of them got approved right away. What's the hold up? Oh, I didn't mean to admit I like gay sex with niggaz, can I edit this?

I surf the web on a big 42 in. LCD and I have to GET UP OFF THE FUCKING COUCH, just to initiate a search?????????? to read the numbers/letters??????????? I'm not signing up for a federal bank account-I'm trying to search this site- let's treat it as such. WOW!!!! Truely amazing.

mega's note - I edited your rant, but I left in the part about your enjoyment of gay sex. You will notice I always get the last word on my own website you stupid little bitch.

In my local public library, library cards are used ONLY for issuing books, CDs, DVDs, tapes, and videos, and issuing fines for late returns; but NOT for using a computer there with internet access, or anything else.

You are an impatient, ignorant little child, minor havoc. Your moderated posts were in the system all of a few hours before your outburst ruined your future here. Perhaps your parents are quick to feed you a lollipop when you hold your breath and bang your head against the wall, but here on The Forum we approve posts during the course of regular business hours, and not always every day.

You are not the first newb claiming to be the best thing since sliced bread to appear on the Internet. Did you just get your first computer, a new membership to AOL perhaps? Some of us have been doing this for quite some time, and we know flaming gets you nowhere. Bitching that you don't get instant attention and satisfaction on someone elses website is the very definition of childishness.

If I bothered to let you reply, you would likely indignantly claim your are a grandfather who has been using the Internet since the 50's when you invented it alongside Al Gore. An uninspiring and unoriginal argument that. Your belligerence brands you a newb.

I do heartedly apologize that you had to move your fat lazy ass off the couch. That must have placed quite a strain on your heart. Perhaps the origin of your problem is that your computer monitor is in fact a cheap low resolution TV ill suited to the display of text in any fashion. I am impressed though, a whole 42 inches, wow, that must be a custom job, so big, I have never heard the likes. Your parents must have a whole $1000 to buy that, truly you are among the worlds wealthy.

Since you are obviously incapable of original thought I will clue you in on a little secret. Those numbers and letters are supposed to be illegible, by machines. It's called a CAPTCHA. Look it up if you are not still overexerted from the trip off the couch.

At least you are smart enough to recognize you don't have anything to offer to The Forum. If we don't have anything of value, than why will you hang around, eh? I will certainly approve your post so everyone can see what a stupid whiny brat you are, and I am doing so despite the lame reverse psychology challenge.

You are a punk, completely worthless, you have no skills, no knowledge, no education, you have absolutely nothing to offer this community, so instead you make up fanciful stories about what you could offer, all lies. Such rage, such hostility, and such an obvious case of trollbaiting considering you have not actually been around here long enough to break a rule.

I know it hurts to admit I am superior to you, far smarter, and much better looking. Some men are just destined for great things, and you are not one of those men. The world still needs ditch diggers, waiters to fetch coffee, and boys to bag groceries. I know your limited intellectual capacity will never allow you to excel even as a bag boy, but your life will be far more satisfying than existing as a lump on the couch surfing the net.

Damn, you beat me to him. :p

Yes, the temptation to delete the post was strong, but even stronger was the urge to just let the fool BE a fool, and in front of so many others.

I kept the original troll rant saved for posterity, or just for posterior's sake. ;)

Anyone wanting to see it, download it from here (http://rapidshare.com/files/49711680/TrollsAss.txt.html).

I came in to check this thread and I was shocked to read what I was reading.:eek:

Perphaps, M.H. just wanted to shock people for the shock value.

Roguesci is a community for people who want to learn about chemistry, explosives and researching another related topics and counter-terrorism. I just feel that the illegal drug cooking books should not be on this website anotherwise, this is a very good website with alots of good information.

As for the issue of homosexuality, there are forums dedicated to homosexuality or anti-homosexuality. I think it would be highly appropriate for M.H. to take his sick homosexuality somewhere else. Homosexuality is not wanted here. You know pretty much " don't ask, don't tell " This in no way is discrimmation but some people do not want to hear about the details of your sex life, wheter you are gay or not. I don't want to be reading about that.

Megalomania has conducted himself appropriately and wheter he is a homosexual or not is of no concern to me because he did not make homosexuality a concern.

I am a straight man and I do not appreciate it when a gay person is basically discussing his sex life or trying to come onto me or another straight guys or causing people grief with the false rumors of the gay lifestyle wheter it really happened or not between two people. That is a private matter between two adults, wheter they are straight or gay. It really is inappropriate and is not open for debate.

That pisses me off more than anything else and that is probably exactly what you wanted, baiting people and causing flame wars or some drama that was very un-called for.

It also seems to me, M.H. that you do not have a normal mind and I am very concerned for you. I think you need mental health help. Normal people do not talk like that period.

Ahhhh.

Gentlemen, what you did to that fool was pure gold - I've not laughed like that in quite a while. (and that was even before I downloaded and read the idiot's original post, I'm just wiping the tears away from my eyes now - brilliant Megalomania & NBK)

....Anyway, getting back to the topic - interesting, hadn't known that ebay owned skype and paypal - this may have rather sinister consequences, in light of the fact that Skype was down recently, and that downloading the software was stopped in the interim - Hope there isn't a "need to update software" message next time I turn it on.

As to searching anonymously, it won't work in all cases, but I've managed to find a way of doing just that, it works just fine in public places that require you to enter a password also!!

I've installed a usb-bootable version of Linux onto the second partition of a 256MB flash drive. The second partition is invisible on windows computers (unless you right-click MyComputer, go to manage then select Disk-Management).

This allows you to boot up your own OS on a public computer then use your own browser and have all temporary files stored in memory on a virtual disk, not actually on the C drive of the concerned computer).

It's as simple as logging in as per normal, grabbing any proxy information from the browser the library uses, then running a bios password retrieval tool then rebooting. You'll probably have to enter the bios setup to enable booting from a usb device, but once that is done you just sit back and smile to yourself. Enter in all the relevant proxy information and voila! You're in.

For the really paranoid around, you can alter the MBR of the drive after you're finished browsing so as to remove any mention of a second partition - windows will then see the second 1/2 of the disk as being unpartitioned space. All you have to do is restore the MBR once you get home - so even in the unlikely event that you be nabbed on the way home and your usb key stuck into a pc and examined, there's virtually no chance they discover your little trick. (the gag bootmanager does a similar thing, allowing you to boot up to 9 OSs from a single hard-disk)

You should see the looks of horror on the faces of network engineers when you mention this little trick, absolutely priceless.

Anyway - the versions of Linux that I prefer for this purpose are Damn Small Linux and Puppy Linux, the second being the better of the two in my opinion. They're about 50MB for DSL and around 90-130MB for Puppy - including the requisite web-browser and torrent downloading software.

The only problems I've had have been PCs that won't boot from usb and networks that block all ports except for 8080, when they do that you can't grab torrents. Though, it's still a nice, workable solution for some of the better stuff you'd prefer not to grab while at home. Or for those that like to keep their private business err, private.

After doing research on the history of the dynamite stick. I had no idea that there was a very intense history behind the dynamite stick.

I have what basically aumonts to two very big boulder rocks in the river that I would like to make rid of and never make explosives ever again.

Good stuff to know in case have to turn the tables against the islamic terrorists much like what the US soldiers experienced with a wave after wave of Chinese Communist human wave assaults and the US Troops took to using explosives to stop those waves of suicidial Chinese communists from advancing on the US Troops. This knowledge could come in handy and to only be used for good, life-saving purposes.

I thought the part about the farming and mining operations was very interesting and how this wealthy businessman, the inventor of the dynamite stick wanted the explosives used for peaceful purposes all over the world which is exactly what I would like to do in the backyard of my river on my private property. This is what the wealthy businessman and inventor of the dynamite stick had in mind, for peaceful purposes.

I had no idea the history behind the product was that intense. Please notice how dangerous it really was to make the dynamite sticks and the cutthroat competition between the men who made and sold dynamite to the mining and construction industry.

It made for some very interesting. eye-opening historical reading. :eek:

http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2006/1/2006_1_40.shtml

Of course I don't assume my searches are private. Data mining technology is getting more sophisticated every day. Actually, it would be rather counterproductive and stupid for the US government not to take advantage of it, wouldn't it.

Here's an interesting search tip: if you're looking for a search string which you suspect may be censored, don't put it in quotes. Sure, your results will be buried in an enormous pile of irrelevancies, but if you know what you're looking for and patiently wade through the results 100 hits at a time, you can sift out the handful of sites that mention it.

I discovered this fact when I was looking for a specific address of a government official: in quotes, Google returned nothing. Without them, the exact string I specified started to show up about 1,500 hits into the results. Think about it: there's no way they could eliminate all instances that include four words and a number...Patience and determination pays, folks.

Another interesting data point is that Google sites in foreign languages offer different results. Depending on what you're looking for, it can be quite useful to compare them. European image searches don't default to that annoying SafeSearch option either.

I use Google.kr, google.co.jp, Google.co.uk, Google.de and Google.fr, myself.

Firstly, have any of you heard of freenet?
Briefly, it's akin to a peer to peer network, but extremely anonymous.
It works by being a distributed data store, breaking all the data up into thousands of encrypted chunks & spreading them randomly across all the users allocated drive space. It passes requests for a specific file through a local proxy, asking the store for any chunks that it may have locally. What it can't find locally, it requests from a neighbor. The requests are such that the neighbor doesn't know how far downstream the request is coming from, so doesn't know it's you...

The disadvantage is that it's slow...
(and non-permanent, docs that you want to be around have to be re-inserted now & then)

You set up the software & dedicate a portion of your drive for its use. It's always on. You won't be able to do much of anything until your store is filled. I think most people dedicate 5-10 gigs. Although some give several hundred, hard drives are getting cheaper, why not.

The more people who use it, the more space is dedicated to it, the faster & more anonymous it gets. I've been thinking about inserting a bunch of the related documents into the data store...

Also, there is some debate as to which is better, version 0.5 or 0.7. 0.7 has the edge in speed, but tries to break up the pool into a bunch of unrelated darknets. In theory, this sounds like a good concept, but in practice, it makes it much riskier for the average user. I'm sticking with 0.5, or running A large 0.5 & a small 0.7 on different boxes - just to keep abreast of advances.


Also, I've been using puppylinux for a couple years now. I'm thinking about putting together my own flavor of puppylinux. I think I'll call it Paranoid Puppy.

Puppy by default from a cd is pretty good, since as soon as you reboot, if you don't save your session, EVERYTHING is gone. It runs all apps from ram! No history. No cache. No swap. Nothing!

But with the addition of a few things, it could be much more to our likes:

It'll have tor enabled by default, but using the switchproxy firefox extension, it can easily be disabled.

The save file system will be des encrypted. (this is where the normal changes to the system settings & non-serious things like everyday bookmarks & such would go)

An additional user area could use a dual container steganographic encryption.(this would be where the real serious documents you want to save would go)

A handful of useful network "manipulation" software would be included.

I'm thinking an image designe to run from a 512M or bigger thumb drive would be about right:
128M for the basic OS image
128M for the save files
256M for the container(s)

Any interest?

Megalomania and NKB2000 did us all a favor by eliminating the afoesaid troll by
the name of Major Havoc. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that Mega nailed the
asshole first. Probably a matter of whose radar it pops up on. Fucking
troll deserves to be burned !

I'm glad the asshole never asked for FTP access. Same policy as always:
Get crossed off the Forum list and you're crossed off mine. Even-handed
punishment for assholes everywhere.

As for Google, I will ALWAYS assume that I'm being watched by Big Brother !
Paranoia goes along way toward saving one's ass !

Its a good thing I haven't crossed the forum. I like being able to use the FTP.

If I can recall, the USFG was able to moniter google for a quite noble cause... CHILD PORN! Apparently all they wanted to moniter google searches for was phedophiles, nothing else. I believe them... ;)

I found this not-so-credible website with a few pages of anti google. I don't know how true this is, so don't take anything for fact. But still, it illustrates the point.

http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=2175251

If I can recall, the USFG was able to moniter google for a quite noble cause... CHILD PORN! Apparently all they wanted to moniter google searches for was phedophiles, nothing else. I believe them... ;)


This was quite an interesting site. I am glad you posted it. While I agree with you in context of child porn the facts are that often some of the most horrible abuses of power are guised in "doing the right thing".

Think about the reality of censorship in US public libraries.....they wanted to keep porn out of the public libraries; so filters were set in place. These filters would turn down sites dealing with breast cancer due to the hit on "breasts".

The researcher who uses search engines for issues dealing with common place issues that the engine turns over to a porn site due to the web page construction paints that researcher as having sexual proclivities that are completely out of context, etc.

I'm glad you trust your government. I don't trust people who guise their actions with "for the children" perfidious crap. Our government is made up of people who have proven their lack of trustworthiness.

[Guilty until proven innocent = the government.] Innocent until proven guilty has been the hallmark of our legal system...do you REALLY buy that?

Let me further illustrate what I mean. Often people have called Vista, Microsoft's "spyware OS" because of it's constant "calling home" and contact with the company in context of information & system config, etc, etc. Microsoft vehemently denies this and stands by it's End User License Agreement (EULA) which it plainly states what it "may" do. The fact that Google has a message on it's toolbar that states that it "calls home" also is not a statement of honesty but a method of avoiding civil action by someone who was called into court because of a "mistake" or whatever.

When we actually read the EULA of both we see that they plainly state that the end user can't bring civil action or infer Constitutional rights violation. That in itself is enough for me to avoid the both of them.

This is the common justification for oppresive laws and child-porn sniffing
software. It's also used to justify gun control and just about any other law
that adds misery to our lives. IIRC, it was coined by Miriam Wright Edelman
of The Children's Defense Fund and embraced by The Billary Clinton team
during their reign of terror in the White House. Just look at some of the laws
passed during that reign. The infamous assault weapons ban that expired
drew hysterical responses from the CDC, the CDF, anti-gun groups, and the
Democratic National Assholes Committee. Now George Bush's justice
department is engaged in domestic spying "for the children" to seek out
pedophiles and terrorists. Fascism in incremental doses !

Firstly, have any of you heard of freenet?


GNAA Press Release: Ten-thousand Freenet User Identities Compromised (http://www.gnaa.us/pr.phtml?troll=gnaa-freenet)

GNAA Press Release: Ten-thousand Freenet User Identities Compromised (http://www.gnaa.us/pr.phtml?troll=gnaa-freenet)

I'm not sure what the people on that site are smoking.
But I am pretty sure they are full of crap.
No such breech has taken place.

This is a bunch of kewls playing at the internet, maybe some day they'll make good script kiddies....

HAH!
They got me too!
Read the url, it is an intended troll.

Good one! :D

IIRC, it was coined by Miriam Wright Edelman
of The Children's Defense Fund and embraced by The Billary Clinton team

To the best of MY knowledge you are right on target.

The use of an "object" (firearms, chemicals, drugs, etc) has always been safe for a political target as it defuses defensiveness when the perpetrator of a crime may be of a voting block (an ethnicity for instance) and that voting block uses ethnic identity as their "flag". {EXAMPLE} "A 23 yr old African American man was arrested for shooting at passing motorists".
BECOMES: " 'Sniping rifles' are so freely available that virtually anyone can own a bolt action military long range anti-personnel weapon. Capable of targeting an innocent passer by at almost a quarter mile, these 'human interdiction' weapons are expressly made to kill at long range."

An attack at an object is free of any reference to anything that might raise the sensitivities of a group that has been trained to react to any reference (to themselves) in anything but a superior light.

Or when dealing with drugs; the emphasis on personal responsibility becomes dimmed when the dealers are victims of a repressive economic system. It just goes on and on....

The "chemical" issue is somewhat flexible as it may represent efforts on a "War on Terror" that appears to be somewhat impotent unless some domestic action is forthcoming.

Objects are wonderful as they are symbols and symbols are a marketing team's dream come true.

About Freenet:
Freenet is a secure and anonymous content distribution system designed by a team of expert child pornographers attempting to create a more secure network for the acquisition and distribution of child pornography.

Using "the children" as an excuse to enact oppressive laws, censorship, a take away freedoms is ripped right from the political handbook. I seem to remember a time when "they" wanted to ban all porn from the net to "protect the children." The Supreme Court ruled it was unconstitutional to limit something to only what is suitable for children. This is a good reason to hate kids, and their breeders. The world is an adult place, children have no rights or freedoms, and their PARENTS are supposed to be watching out for them. Why should everyone suffer because of what a child might do? If you, the parent, do not want your child to watch porn, read offensive books, chat on the net, or play violent video games, than it is your (the parents) responsibility to stop it. Don't wait for some stuffed suit in Washington to tell you what is what. The democrats have your life all planned out, telling you what you MUST do, and the republicans have a big list of what you must NOT do.

Perhaps the fedgov feels they must enact these laws to ban porn and violence because it is illegal to smack, and therefore discipline, children. Technically parents are not allowed to correct their children's behavior, so Big Brother will take care of that nasty video game and ban it.

I still find it laughable that the government wants to try to control something like porn. Even if they find a million people downloading child porn, how many of those will be Americans? How much time will they waste investigating someone who they can never arrest, let alone prosecute?

The "children" is only a smoke screen. The argument is designed to be so morally reprehensible that no one could possibly argue against it. If Hitler had said "we must grind up the jews into hamburger to protect the health of our children, we must protect the children," than there would be no Israel today. Using the "children" is an emotional appeal that panders to sheep, it is not a valid logical argument that wins on its merits.

Our children are not in danger. A 20 year old guy that screws a 15 year girl is not some sexual deviant. The list of "sexual offenders" is very biased data because Americans are conditioned to believe every guy on the list will kidnap, rape, and cannibalize infants and toddlers. Just as a guy who serves jail time for a few unpaid parking tickets is not some murderer, nor is a kid who has consensual sex with his girlfriend some child rapist. By manipulating the statistics the fedgov makes it seem like there are tons of pedos running around, so they can justify their laws "to protect the children."

Ban guns because of what a child might do, ban porn because of what a child might see, ban chemicals because of what a child might drink. What they really want, what they will NEVER say is we want to ban guns so the population is easier to control and docile, ban porn because we are uptight prudes who deny how we were born and what we really do in our bedrooms, ban chemicals because the resistance will not be able to breach our armored vehicles when we march the troops into Anytown USA.

About Freenet:
Freenet is a secure and anonymous content distribution system designed by a team of expert child pornographers attempting to create a more secure network for the acquisition and distribution of child pornography.

Interesting quote, Mega.
I agree with the rest of what you said.

I've been a part of the freenet community for about 7 years. In that time, I've seen many people rail against the child porn on freenet. I've seen a lot of people quit the project because of the child porn.

Freenet was developed so that people could exchange ideas & information without fear of censorship(think freedom fighters & dissidents). The founder of the freenet project & most of the long time members feel that any attempts to limit ANY of the content on freenet goes against this purpose.

The only way to have an uncensored medium is to not censor it! Allowing any one to control what content is a part of it is censorship. Being able to speak up without fear of reprisal is only possible by a totally secure system.

Perhaps that system will be used by people the government thinks are bad.

Oh, that's kinda the point...


I'm in the process of sorting out my information collection. When I'm done, I plan on inserting it all into freenet. I figure the 300+ gigs of information that I have is probably more than the amount of child porn there. Maybe it can be turned into the secure uncensored information distribution network it should be.

Once the system has the means of deleting one form of undesirable content (CP), then the means of censoring all other content is in place.

If the Freenet designers get weak and enable ANY form of censoring, watch how quickly the system will collapse as the government co-opts that ability and uses it to suppress the entire system.

If there is child porn on that website or any website for that matter then it should be taken down, the FBI gets involved from there.

I can tolerate guns, explosives and another things as long as it is used in an appropriate manner, like going deer hunting or for self defense or using explosives in the construction, mining industry or as a home hobbyist etc. but child porn has no place on the internet or anywhere in real life period.

This is not censorship. That is about the kid's safety. That much should be clear and it is common-sense.

WWII, you are missing the point. Once that freedom has gone, the next freedom will go and the next freedom after that. Governments aren't going to stop at child porn, they will be taking away all of the freedoms eventually, they just need a stepping stone.

Back to the original question, no, I don't trust Google as they are a company that is out to make money and dominate many markets, it won't want a government in the way of that will it?. Why would they care about the freedoms of it's users? Most Google users wouldn't know about or care if there are records of them, so Google won't loose money.

This is a problem with the whole aspect of a "global community", NWO, whatever or however you want to interpret it as. Because one country or culture's moral compass is not necessarily another's. Malaysia at one time was culturally inclined toward "extreme under-age" (10-15 yrs old) sex and sexual enterprising.

In this context, who are we to enforce our morality on another culture? --- I'm NOT making a case for moral relativism! I'm pointing out the clash between the very nature of a global community and individual interpretation of right and wrong; acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in the light of what the Internet is {as reflected in the Google issue}.

An Islamic man may feel highly offended by the upskirt-panties shots and naked oiled tits, etc. No Burka and his woman may be seen by others with lustful intent, etc. From his perspective we are sinful as can be.

Unless the concept is freedom and we deal with it's intendant complications, the Internet becomes another advertising medium like the "News Media". It's not as simple as seeing things from one perspective and not realizing that the world is a large complex place.

Hillery will help us understand it better because she is a woman and bla, bla, bla.... the socialists have our best interests at heart....."they" know whats best for us all.

I can tolerate guns, explosives and another things as long as it is used in an appropriate manner, like going deer hunting or for self defense or using explosives in the construction, mining industry or as a home hobbyist etc. but child porn has no place on the internet or anywhere in real life period. I agree about child porn, but I would hasten to add that there are other appropriate uses for guns and explosives besides those you mentioned. Chief among them is the killing of police and other government agents who step over the line into the enforcement of tyranny.

Since no one has a right to rule over anyone else -- ruling is always a privilege rather than a right -- ordinary people always have a duty to possess the means (including knowledge, of course) to discipline and even depose those entrusted with authority. If it can't be done peacefully, or if the majority supports the tyranny, then it has to be done violently.

One day common Americans may become like the Palestinians fighting Jewish tyranny, having to use a largely improvised arsenal and our wits to fight against a much larger and better-equipped force. The more the information on sites like this is spread to the masses, the more effective any future resistance will be. It's always better to die and take some of the fuckers with you than to live under someone's boot.

Regarding Google, I definitely don't trust it. The paranoid in me suspects that IP addresses are logged when enough "questionable" searches come from that address.

On the other hand, the fact that Google is still providing links to sites like RogueSci.org, where usable information can be obtained now, makes me wonder if Google is really all that bad. They could always enact their own policy, in the absence of government coercion, preventing the return of search results for explosives manufacture and so forth. The fact that they haven't done this is interesting. Maybe it's not feasible yet? Or maybe they continue to allow such searches in order to keep better tabs on people?


*** EDIT in response to WWII below: I'd like to respond to your points regarding Israel/Palestine, but I'm going to do it in the Graveyard so as not to derail this thread. Please check there for my response.

I agree about child porn, but I would hasten to add that there are other appropriate uses for guns and explosives besides those you mentioned. Chief among them is the killing of police and other government agents who step over the line into the enforcement of tyranny.

Since no one has a right to rule over anyone else -- ruling is always a privilege rather than a right -- ordinary people always have a duty to possess the means (including knowledge, of course) to discipline and even depose those entrusted with authority. If it can't be done peacefully, or if the majority supports the tyranny, then it has to be done violently.

One day common Americans may become like the Palestinians fighting Jewish tyranny, having to use a largely improvised arsenal and our wits to fight against a much larger and better-equipped force. The more the information on sites like this is spread to the masses, the more effective any future resistance will be. It's always better to die and take some of the fuckers with you than to live under someone's boot.

Yeah, Well I wasn't thinking of the police nor did I have killing the police in mind either but if it gets really bad to the point where ordinary law abiding American citizens need to take positive action because of law enforcement abuse or governmental abuse of their power then so be it but I can't see myself killing a police officer. I have enough respect for the police officer. He has a tough enough of a job also there is just something so wrong about it unless ....for example God forbid, the police killed my wife and the kids for no reason and I am actually innocent and did not break any laws nor did I do anything to bring it on myself and my family then yes, I can see myself killing the police but a cold blooded murder of a police officer for no reason. No, I can't see myself doing that.

That is why it is very important for police officers and government elected officials to not abuse their position of power or they will have it taken away from them one way or another or possibly die as they are abusing their position of power. I hope that day never comes for America but if it does then we will be like the Americans v.s the British, I have been reading up on what the British did to us in the 1700's ( We are friends with the British today, but way back then 200 years ago we weren't friends at all ) I read about what they did to the people who signed the Delacration of Independence. I think Thomas Jefferson's son got murdered by the British etc. Families were killed. I don't have the exact details as it is 3:00 a.m. my memory is fuzzy and if it becomes that so bad that ordinary law abiding American citizens have to take positive action to stop tyranny then I support it because I love freedom and being a free man, able to live, work and choose whatever job I want, and much more. Many people in another countries do not have those simple opporounities that we take so much for granted. A guy in Communist Russia always wanted to be a doctor but he is told to be a bricklayer and he knows in his soul, he was made by God to be a doctor. ( When I say he knows in his soul he was made by God ) I mean that as a positive way, not the kind that are mentally ill and says God made me a doctor and I cut people's heart because God told me to ...

No, no, no I just want to put that here so people reading this does not make very stupid agruements about God and what he did etc. My point is there are men and women who know in their soul what they want to be, a doctor, a lawyer, a fireman etc. and they are denied these simple opporounities, basically slave labor in Communist Russia and another countries etc. That is my point.

The same thing happened in WWII with Nazis and the Jews. The Jews were innocent and the Nazis enforced the brutal assault on the Jewish people, God's Chosen people. Many people helped save Jewish lives. As for the Jews v.s. Palestinians debate. I am with the Jews on this one because the Palestinians keep killing civilians while the Israeli Defense Forces tries not to kill any civilians in the course of their duties with the war on terror.

I guess I must have rambled on long enough and I need to get to bed. I do pray and hope America never comes to this kind of thing. The arabic terrorists have caused America enough trouble and we didn't do anything to them and the arabs are basically carrying out what Hitler started 60 years ago. That stuff was supposed to stay in the ashes of WWII but God gave Israel a miracle as prosphied in the KJV Holy Bible, specifically the Old Testament that Israel will be raised in one hour or one day if I remember it correctly ? and that is what happened in 1948 then the arabic armies amassed and attacked Israel when the Jews just came out of a very horrible situation with the Nazi occupation of Germany & Europe. The Jews will win in the end because they clearly have God of Israel on their side now. Israel is a modern state with many positive achievements in a variety of vocations especially the technology and the medical field saving lives.

Can the same be said of the arabs ? The arabic terrorists have attacked us on 9/11 and what for ? Pathological hatred of Israel and The USA which naturally has supported Israel from the start of WWII and the Holocaust etc. I will come back to check this very interesting thread, perphaps a thread about Israel in the water cooler section would be more appropriate for this topic. Well, My mind has wandered off long enough and I need to get to bed. Have a good night.

The Jews were innocent and the Nazis enforced the brutal assault on the Jewish people, God's Chosen people.

I suggest you see this holocaust denial movie if you still buy into such bullshit:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

I'll make a thread in Issues and Opinions or the "Graveyard" if anyone thinks they can refute anything at the above link, to avoid thread hijacking

Beware the Four Horsemen of the Information Apocalypse:

terrorists, drug dealers, kidnappers, and child pornographers.

Seems like you can scare the public into allowing the government to do anything with those four. So anytime you hear some politician talking about one of these four, in relation to the internet, you know they're planning on curtailing even more of your freedoms.

Yes, pedo's can use encryption and anonymous routing systems to trade kiddy-fuck pics. But the same mechanisms that makes them untraceable also allows freedom fighters to oppose tyrannical governments and corporate hegemony.

You can't suppress one without suppressing the other.

I'd rather live in a free society that has pedo's trading kiddy-fuck pics over the internet, than a socialist paradise where I'm just a disposal digit in the peoples factory...and the pedo's are still trading kiddy-fuck pics by hand while meeting in their Dacha's by the lake, as many of the ruling elite seem to be pedo's.


...for example God forbid, the police killed my wife and the kids for no reason and I am actually innocent and did not break any laws nor did I do anything to bring it on myself and my family then yes, I can see myself killing the police...

Randy Weaver and Waco come immediately to mind.

Thank God the police saved this little girl from that evil pedo Koresh:

http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/death/72/72_pix.jpg

Thank god for the enforcers of the states will, huh?

If there is child porn on that website or any website for that matter then it should be taken down, the FBI gets involved from there.

This is not censorship. That is about the kid's safety. That much should be clear and it is common-sense.

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to reply, perhaps I should PM WWII. But this is, I feel an important issue, which needs more exposure.


Freenet is not a website.

Freenet is a network that runs on top of the existing internet. You run an application to access it, like running your browser to access the web or an email client to access email. (except it's a bit more difficult to set up, damn geeks don't bother much with usability or help files...)

Freenet is a secure, anonymous, censorship free network.

It, like many things* that can be used for anonymity, such as encryption, can be used by people that not only the government considers bad, but that you or I would consider bad. Should freenet be outlawed+ because some people misuse it?

I know that some of the information I have acquired on this board may be illegal in many countries, including the "land of the free." If you lived in a country where you really feared your government, where your every move was potentially watched, where every website you visited was potentially kept track of, would you still want the information here? Would you try to access it anonymously if you could?

Shouldn't you have the ability to do that? That is what freenet is for.

*As you may have noticed, lots of other things that are misused by a few are already banned for possession by the many...

+There are also CP web sites in other countries, freely available to those who find them. Maybe the FBI should take down this whole internet thing(no matter what the subject, don't encourage the pricks)?
Because of its anonymity, freenet may contain a higher percentage of CP than the "normal" internet. Or not. Because of its very nature, it's impossible to catalog the entirety of freenet.

Thank God the police saved this little girl from that evil pedo Koresh:


BINGO!

Sometimes it seems that folks have a tough time seeing the forest before the trees. It's not an issue of the child porno per se' but a question of being able to be free. Nor is that moral relativism or contextual in the sense of "Gulags or concentration camps" -the Stalin or Hitler issue.

I'm hopeful that folks will re-read your post (or mine for that matter) and think about the big picture.

I suggest you see this holocaust denial movie if you still buy into such bullshit:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

I'll make a thread in Issues and Opinions or the "Graveyard" if anyone thinks they can refute anything at the above link, to avoid thread hijacking

I have read about both sides of the holocaust debate, those for the holocaust and those who deny the holocaust happened.

I have actually heard from a Nazi SS guard who talked to college students and he really was a Nazi SS guard. One of the things he said it was an insult to the Nazi SS guard veterans who actually did administer the daily duties and they hear people say the Holocaust never happened which basically means there were no Nazi SS guards ? He said the debate about how many millions died in the death camps, one thing people have not considered is that what if the Nazis burned much more than 6 million or maybe under 6 million, nobody wants to think more than 6 million were burned and he repented of being a Nazi SS guard so he was able to speak to college students about the Holocaust. I thought that was very interesting and informative.

Yeah I am going over to the water cooler to see what is going on.

Anyone saying they were an SS guard at the camps, and that there was a holo-hoax, is a liar.

No doubt this man was being financed by jewish interests, to further indocrinate the college students in the myth of the holo-hoax, to prime them for future manipulations by their jewish masters.

I have actually heard from a Nazi SS guard who talked to college students and he really was a Nazi SS guard.

So "eyewitness" testimonies cancel out technical and logistical impossibilities?

One of the things he said it was an insult to the Nazi SS guard veterans who actually did administer the daily duties and they hear people say the Holocaust never happened which basically means there were no Nazi SS guards ?

He likely assumed you would never suspect that the camps could have been for something else, such as transit camps for the planned expulsion of Jews from Europe, because he considers his audience to be gullible idiots.

Well, the week before, the professor had a US Military veteran returning from Iraq talk about his time over there. Does that make everything he said and experienced over there un-true ?

It is the same with the Nazi SS guard veteran. We were learning about history in college and how it affects the world we live in today and how much we need peace in this world.

Well, the week before, the professor had a US Military veteran returning from Iraq talk about his time over there. Does that make everything he said and experienced over there un-true ?

The quoted text is a:
http://i17.tinypic.com/4ve93f6.jpg

So "eyewitness" testimonies cancel out technical and logistical impossibilities?

Unless it's Adolf Hitler, the testimony of one man about what was done to the jews in the camps is of ZERO value, as one man can see only but the tiniest piece of the whole.

History is written by the victors. There's little truth out there, what's widely accepted is false. The Jews have a nice thing going for them, too bad the truth will eventually reveal itself and they'll be thrown into exile like the days of old. Time will tell.

I'm absolutely against any form of censorship. One form of censorship leads to another, and further our freedoms become non-existent. The illusion of freedom today is the problem, they've got a good scheme of getting us to think we're free. I blame the television.

I embrace the idea of citizens taking up arms and removing a Government that no longer represents them, particularly in America.

As far as the Holocaust,

http://judicial-inc.biz/Auschwitz.htm

http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

http://zundelsite.org/

....

For Google, do I trust it? Not really, hardly anything is trust worthy.. On the other hand, regardless if Big Brother is watching or not, if you know what to look for you can get the information you desire.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7875/thesovietstatesofamericdh2.jpg

Found the above on DeviantArt, seems a bit accurate.

Realistically this does not start and stop with Google. Yahoo does this shit as well:
Yahoo Shares Internet Info
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6966116.stm

It doesn't surprise me about Yahoo. Besides.. Yahoo sucks.

Child sex and porn has existed long before the WWW, and it will likely continue long after. Where does the banning stop, shall we ban the net to protect the children? There will still be CP. Shall we yank out all the phone lines so there can never be a net? Perhaps ban all computers period. Maybe the eyes of all men should be gouged out so none may look upon a nude form. Lets start by burning all the museums where painting of nudes hang, and lets hang all the parents with snapshots of their little ones in the tub. A bare baby bottom is blasphemy!

The fedgov can still investigate CP with existing techniques and tools. To ban freenet because of what might be done is to deny the GOOD it can accomplish too. The fedgov wants to control us all, and anything they can't control they must destroy. Only in a truly free system can people express their minds to the fullest.

With censorship can you speak out against a corrupt governmnt? They will find you and kill you. Can you speak out against criminal activity within your company? They will find you and sue you. Can you speak out against sexual abuse by a parent or spouse? He will find you and beat you. Time and time again we see stories of how the government abuses its power, corporations hunt down whistle blowers, and how abusers exact vengeance on their enemies because they have to power to track someone on the Internet. We live in a world where the wealthy and powerful are crushing our freedoms and liberties, but we are blinded by myths and legends of alleged child abuse that might happen.

You must open your eyes and realize the enemy despises anonymity because it is a powerful weapon in the hands of the oridinary people. Imagine all of your private thoughts, secret feelings, and deepest shame laid bare before the world. Your mind is anonymous, now take that away. Would your boss want to hire you if he knew how you really felt about him? Would your wife despise you if she knew how you thought about her sister? Would not some people find perverse joy and tormenting others with their greatest fears and weaknesses? Anonymity is necessary for mental health. Without anonymity the human mind becomes blank, sterile, a void of no thought, a necessary consequence to avoid shame, harm, and persecution. The unthinking mind is unthinkable to me.

Thankfully, for the time being at least, there is an alternative.

Check this out:

http://www.scroogle.org/

Google and Firefox teaming up to sell surfers data:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/260907Firefox.htm

Google and Firefox teaming up to sell surfers data:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/260907Firefox.htm

This is easily corrected. In the Firefox browser go to 'options' -> 'security', then check the box next to "Tell me if the site I'm visiting is a suspected forgery. Click the radio button "Check using a downloaded list of suspected sites". DO NOT click the radio button "Check by asking Google". That way Google won't be informed of every site you visit.

If your answer to "do you trust Google" was like mine, 'HELL NO!' you should look at the Firefox extension CustomizeGoogle from http://www.customizegoogle.com . You can prevent Google's click tracking and make your Google userID anonymous in addition to killing ads. Good stuff if you ever do searches for *cough* interesting *cough* things.

The next version of Firefox looks good. Firefox 3 will feature a "private browsing" mode where no information about your browsing session is stored.

While from the sound of that article Firefox is just trying to protect its users from malware, but it is entirely possible that now Firefox is popular it is open to the same corruption as Micro$oft is.

Just because their new version says "Private Browsing" doesn't mean that it actually is... A little cynicism people.

Who cares if google has the sites you are visiting..... so does your ISP, and I'd be more worried about that. True that google could just send lists of IP's to FedGov that have been visiting "dubious" sites, but I think google is the least of your problems if you have cause to be suspicious.

If you are worried about someone watching you browsing, browse from a library or a university computer room.... somewhere that can't be traced back to you.

If you can't pass off what you are browsing as research related, there are plenty of unrestricted wireless networks around that you can use. Just drive around town with a laptop and a wireless card, do your research, and piss off. No need to stick around, there are plenty of them around.

A update on those two boulders in the river.

I found out how much it costs to have the work done and all 100% legal.

I also consulted with an attorney concerning land and construction, real estate, wildlife management etc to be sure everything is 100% legal.

The total costs approximately $ 3,700.

The man that I talked to said he was happy that I am doing things in a law abiding manner.

Too many people have drowned from swimming holes that were not properly done, also some people have died blowing up the river.

He said the paperwork and things like that are alittle bit of a hassle but he said that SAFETY is number one when it comes to things like that.

If you want to remove an object in the river or simply to make a nice swimming hole in the river. Please do it in a 100% legal manner. Thank you.

$50 worth of ANNM would have done the job, legal or not.

Don't confuse legal and safe. Just because something is not legal does not automatically make it unsafe. People get hurt when they don't know what they are doing. Since "they" make it hard to acquire safe instruction on the constructive use of explosives it is almost guaranteed any use of explosives will be of the criminal destructive kind.

I guess if more people had access to civilian/commercial bomb making info for construction projects, home improvement, and the DIY enthusiast, it would lend too much legitimacy to explosives. Notice how the fedgov is trying to criminalize fireworks, taking an amusing entertainment device and making it out to be a monster that murders children and commits terrorism.

A farmer with a truckload of explosives could clear boulders from his fields, fell trees, remove stumps, redirect irrigation water, and possibly even plow the soil to break up the initially hard packed earth. A man with explosives could do the labor of 20 farm hands without using expensive machinery.

The fedgov only sees explosives as a criminal tool, a criminal tool that they alone get to use. Explosives have done more good in the world than they have ever done ill. Do we all trash our cars because of a few accidents? Why then should such a tremendous labor saving device as explosives be forbidden?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,139762/article.html

What's everyone think about this? Big Brother, or genius idea?

Yes.

Both of the above. However there is a problem with the "700" mhz band and that is why it is a serious gamble for investors.
Remember the quote in the article that goes something like..."and the frequencies used are not always the same from country to country." Some countries are still going to use broadcast bandwidth freqs; especially less developed ones. there is little doubt that Mexico will continue and that will put those who live on the Boarder in a bind. Mexico has always been such a wonderful neighbor.... If you live in a major city in South Africa or RHODESIA (please don't say the "Z" word), the same issue will exist.