I have made some plans and gathered the materials for a homemade .50 muzzle loading derringer, however, as of now I do not have any way to set it off.

The gun will be pretty simple, a 1/2 inch pipe, 4 1/2 inches long, attached to a wooden grip. Two screws, one on each side of the grip, will connect and hold a rubber band wrapped around the hammer. When the hammer is pulled and released, the hammer swings forward, hitting the primer charge.

However, I have no way of setting the black powder charge (I plan on using 20 grains per shot). I want to avoid homemade primary explosives, and after checking the gun store for primers used for reloading, I was dissapointed in finding out they dont sell them. Niether do any of the sporting goods stores around here.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can set this charge off? At first I was thinking about using an electrical system, but all of the plans ive looked at were too bulky to be used in a short barreled derringer.

Thank you for your time.

A piezo electric crystal perhaps would do the job.

why .50?

maybe lower the size of the bullet you are using, it would be alot easier, there is no way your set up will be able to handle .50. Think about it.

These wont be full power loads, no more than 20 grains of BP per shot (which is slightly more than 1 gram).

However, I am making a .25 caliber derringer that will fire more powerful loads to make up for its mass (these will use anywhere from 5-15 grains of DBSP).

The .50 will be more of a novelty weapon than an actual defense gun.

well maybe not quite improvised - but in theory a 'platz' cartridge as used in a starters gun could do the trick for you.

Platz or starter/blanks comes in 6mm. as well as 9mm. it would be able to set off black powder.

However I must agree with the Angelo that your setup sounds a bit on the light side for something that powerful.

<cautious advice>
Instead of pipe you should probably go for some solid 4140 steel bar drilled (and bored) to a more conservative caliber.
Don't even dream about holding the contraption by hand - use distance and a string.
Black powder should be packed in paper when inserted - and later pierced open through the primer hole by a tooth pick or something else which doesn't produce sparks (this would be even more important in case you would be using powder from fireworks, as this is mostly never pure black powder, but mixed with some other chemical to produce visual effects. These chemical could be even more sensible to friction or sparks).
</cautious advice>

Also remember that proper wadding of the projectile would be extremely important for maximum effect.

Solid 4140 bar bored? Nigger please, NC 12g shotshells generate a low enough pressure to be reliably contained in a seamless DOM steel tube, and I don't believe that BP is going to generate more pressure than a 12g shotshell.

Ever heard of overkill?

zaibatsu,

yeah allright ...maybe it would be overkill,
I just thought that the muzzleloading feature of the device and the probable improvised ammo could implicate trouble in terms of barrel stoppages.
This put together with the derringer designation =>hand held called for the overly cautious approach.

The black powder shooters I know all have these massively barrelled guns - I guess that has affected me more than I realized :-)

But ok I see what You mean, so if I could refrase the overly cautious advice it would be: to experiment with 'fougasse' type devices before applying the design to a hand-held version.

Your location says U.S. so there shouldn't be any problem buying the correct nipple and #11 caps online. Though your design sounds like your going to get "blow back" stright back into your face when the charge goes off and blows the cap back against the hammer and the hammer moves back and the hot gasses (and maybe some flame) jets back at you.

Look at the design of the old BP derringers, the hammer strikes the cap/nipple on a downward angle not in a stright forward strike, there's a reason for that on a derringer/pistol that isn't a break action or pivot action.

On many BPs the nipple sets into a recess that has a about a 40 degree angle so if hot gasses do "blow back" the strength of the hammer spring keeps the hammer from lifting and the gases deflect downward then up and away at about 40 degrees. Your rubber band "spring" isn't going to be strong enough to keep the hammer in place. Also BP hammers have a recessed face so the hammer surrounds the cap/nipple when it fires.

You'ed be better off buying a BP derringer kit for about $20-$30 online. Hell there's one company that will sell you a BP derringer and will also sell you the barrel sleave to turn it into a regular .22 derringer. You just remove the nipple, drill out the rear of the barrel and drive the sleave into it.

Don't know what State your in and it's laws but in many States you just order it and it's shipped to your door. You can even buy conversion cylinders for the BP Hog Legs and turn them into cartrage weapons. Couse that changes their status as weapons.

NickSG, Believe on Zaibatsu�s words, the seamless can hold the pressure ! The .50 caliber isn�t so powerfull and can be shoot by the average person.

Now, about Trever�s statement, surely the rubber band can�t hold the pressure. How will you make the hammer ? Plain steel plate shaped with an dremel ? If yes, you can make also an trigger, and use an heli spring to driven the hammer and arm the trigger. It can be mounted on the wooden body of the gun.

And caps & BP, you can purchase it at any sports store, or do an search for muzzle loaders associations, to find out some nice sellers.

This wont be anything like a .454 Casull, just 20 grains of sulferless BP a shot.

Now that I think about it, I will have the hammer come forward at a downward angle.

I look into buying some percussion caps online, although I would prefer an easier option.

A piezo electric crystal perhaps would do the job.

How about the sparking system from one of those long campfire lighters? It wouldn't be too hard to remove the butane and other parts and attach a barrel to the existing trigger mechanism, then wiring up an improvised spark plug to ignite the black powder.
If that would work it would eliminate the need to recap for every shot, and might be more reliable and less bulky than a mechanical system.

zaibatsu,

You're right. Funny you should mention the 12 ga shotshell. Shotguns are based on blackpowder technology--you could reload shotshells with BP with decent results, just more fouling. One complaint about current shotguns is the old tech--really high power is unavailable due to ammo design.
I read somewhere a few years back, someone was attempting to invent a "modern" shotshell. Wish I'd saved that URL, but I was looking for something else at the time. IIRC, he was working on a Hi/lo pressure system. But I digress.

I recommend also to buy a derringer Kit first. This help to strike on new own ideas.
This exploded diagram is a liege derringer from Pedersoli.



http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/img/imgdrawing/DRW-s330.gif

Yes, Jumala, and it�s based on an early model of "travel pistol" with the removable barrel to facilitate transport.

I have one similar piece, build around 1730 and with an smooth barrel, on the derringer .41 calliber. It�s french or belgian made, and it uses only one spring, to trigger and hammer group.

I have searched for derringers and patents so much last days but I found mosttimes crap.
But yesterday a new updated page was online again.
All kinds of derringers including pics and sometimes drawings.
It is in german language but the pics are the best.
Check it out.

http://www.derringer.de/oldi.htm

There's a specialty gun store in my area that sells pre-ban, rare, and otherwise difficult to find guns and accessories. Some examples would be the Desert Eagle, 500 Magnum revolver, Sharpes rifles, Calico M-100, etc. It's where I got my .264 bolt action and .45-70 lever action rifles and the shells for my 8-gauge shotgun.

They had a double-barrell .50 caliber derringer, made in the US in the early 90's. You can find these at gunshows and various dealers for relatively low prices.

There's a reason why they're so cheap. Nobody in their right mind would ever use a .50 caliber derringer, much less a double-barrel. The guns recoil transfers straight into your hand, more so because of the rounded grip. The grips shape not only transfers more force into your hand, but it also lets the gun rise more easily. The owner of this store test-fires all the weapons before he sells them, with the exception of weapons whose value would be damaged by firing them, such as certain antiques or a gold-plated .45 he had. He said when he fired the derringer it nearly came out of his hand, and the gun twisted enough that the hammer hit his wrist and drew blood.

Even with smaller loads, a large-caliber derringer simply isn't practical by any means. The largest bullet I'd put into a derringer would be a 9mm, because that's all you're going to need. It's a concealable, short-range, last-ditch defensive weapon with all the accuracy of spitting. The larger the bullet, the less accurate it will be over any distance, the larger the pistol will need to be, and the heavier the weapon.

Now you did say that it would be a muzzle-loading derringer, which negates some of the problems the gun would otherwise have, but creates many more. I'd just scale down the gun and use modern full-metal-jacket bullets for simplicities sake.

The reason I want a muzzleloader is so I can control the loads power. With factory ammo, I cant.

I have plenty of guns to use before I would think about grabbing this, but I would much rather get a little scratch on my hand than be stuck with a .22 derringer and be killed. Also, with only one of two rounds, I think it would be best to use the largest possible caliber.

Perhaps what you want is a howdah pistol.

A concept dating back to the Golden Age of British Empire. The howdah is the gondola strapped to the back of an Indian elephant, to carry passengers. The howdah pistol was a large bore derringer or revolver loaded with large shot, carried in a holster mounted inside the howdah. Its intended use was to dispatch a tiger who tried to make lunch out of your ride. Back in '93 I read an artricle in Gun World about these, a Class-III mfr. made a modern one from a revolver frame, and custom made the 4 shot cylinder to fire a .410 or 28 guage shotshell (memory is a bit fuzzy on the caliber). If you want to dispatch an assailant, with one shot from a homebrew pistol, hey, if it kills tigers, it should handle a man. Aim for one of the heads. ;)
Make the derringer .50 cal, but load with lead or steel shot. Maybe finishing nails. Use your imagination.

I have made some plans and gathered the materials for a homemade .50 muzzle loading derringer, however, as of now I do not have any way to set it off.


Does anyone have any ideas on how I can set this charge off? At first I was thinking about using an electrical system, but all of the plans ive looked at were too bulky to be used in a short barreled derringer.


I have two ideas.
1. Buy some simple .22 4 or 5 cartidges for powerloaded nailgun. They are set of similar to a regular cartridge, but with no bullet. They would set of your black powder.

2. As for electrical, you could probably buy a ignitor for a model rocket, and take apart the plastic casing to make it less bulky. Just some thoughts.

I agree, the .22 powerloads would ignite BP or Pyrodex just fine. Some years ago I tested an ignition device that used the powerloads as a flame source. Worked better than I thought it would. I didn't develop the gadget any farther, because I had no immediate use for it.
BUT, now that you've refreshed my memory, I think I'll be looking at my BP pistol again...

I found a picture of a .50 double barrel derringer (muzzleloader)
Here it is:

http://www.derringer.de/old514.htm