Long time no see everyone.

I was just watching the news when I saw a piece related to our hobby. Apparently the FBI found a storage unit full of Sodium Cyanide, automatic weapons, and explosives in addition to "half a million rounds of ammo." The actual story wasn't very interesting(except that I wish I had found the storage shed first), but the way the newscaster portrayed the alleged terrorists was infuriating. It seems as if every time I watch the news, they're making another stab at anyone who might want to own a gun or the like. The newsman said, "The shed was found to be stockpiled with acetic acid, hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid and many other chemicals. Which leads one to ask, 'What would anybody store these chemicals for?'" They stereotyped the perp as your standard backwoods, redneck, extremist right-win militia man who screws his sister and his pig. It seems as if the media(or the government through the media) is making a concerted effort at anathematiizing anyone who refuses to abide by the principles of the majority of society. Anyone who doesn't watch MTV and wear Abercrombie and Fitch is now a terrorist trying to overthrow the government. Has anyone else noticed this trend? Do you think it's possible that good ol' Bush is trying to use the media to gain popular support for his liberty infringing legislation? Also, can anyone think of a way to fight this change in popular sentiment? It seems that if we don't begin fighting the trend now, our hobby is doomed.


BTW, the story I am referring to can be found here (http://cbs11tv.com/localnews/local_story_330180036.html)

I remeber seeing an artical on the homeland security act were it would restrict the buying of chemicals and fuse to anyone without a pyrotechnic lisence. In following this artical i would assume that this would be pressed in many ways as possible.. by sterotypeing it will make it alot harder for people to purchase such chemicals and acids, or at the very least arise suspition infact the other day was asked why i was purchaseing, sulfuric acid, acetone, and AN. Now some of this was based on my age, but now days the media is turning the common hobbieist into terroriests so anyone who is buying acids, chemicals must be trying to make Cyenide Gas to wipe out a large group of Govement officials. 90% of peoples point of views are ignorant media bullshit, am i going to need a lisence to buy battery acid because they think i might turn it into sulfuric acid? Fuck them and there egofictions, live free or die.

I think that these guys were on the crazy side of things...

No doubt they were crazy. If it seemed as if I was defending them, I apologize. I guess it's hard to see by simply reading an article, but it's the way the media steretypes things. They zoomed in on the cover of "The Anarchist Cookbook" and some book titled "Boobytraps" and made it out that anyone interested in the sort of thing was crazy.

To me, it just seems like more 'excuses' to pump up 'homeland security'! (a.k.a Big Brother).
Yet the ironic thing is look at how many illegals are still flooding the Mexican border into the U.S., and how we are actually providing benefits for them and not bouncing them back, and not to mention, all the crimes they are committing and the money the government is spending on them!!!
Come on, we all know the government! There's always another story and a secret side kept from the public.
Also, let's not forget who runs all media in this country. It amazes me how much control one tiny nation has over the 'most powerful nation in the world.' I just see a common underlying thread. Seems like Israel here and there, controls more than what people see.
Just my observations and my two cents. ;)
At any rate, for sure there is a large wave sweeping the country by the media to blow anything out of proportion that may have the slightest connection to the electric word 'terrorism'.
You would think they would keep quiet so as not to alarm the public, but they have their reasons.
It's truly sad. Where is the U.S. headed?! (Don't answer that!) :D

If the three letter agencies and the army are smart, they dump their unwanted or illegal shit that they need to get rid of near some socially undiserable element.

Hooray! We found a load of illegal chemical weapons/overdue ordnance/whatever that the evil terrorists made and were going to use! Praise XXX (insert three letter agency here)!
Good thing we found it first!

Now, will you sign this document that'll releave you from all your rights?

Exactly!
Just like WACO. When there were talks concerning the necessity of the ATF, and possible plans to phase things out, a nice fabricated initiation to prove the department worthy via the media, yet they did not expect the unexpected backfire....prepared citizens that were actually ready and willing to fight back. Look at the hyped up media words that were used to described the Dravidians. 'Cult' my rear!
Makes me wonder about Oklahoma City as well.
I'm not a huge one on conspiracy, but there just are too many unexplained things. Actually, did you ever wonder how steel I-beams in the building were exploded in half when they actually stood protected behind most of the area where the blast 'originated' from.
I recently seen a discussion about this and the skeptical engineer had a very valid point. I couldn't explain it like he could, you'd really have to hear him explain it.
I would really hate to see what the whole truth about 9/11 is!
Anyway.....

Well maybe in 10 or 20 years time we might finally find out the "truth" behind the JFK assination. The media always does hyped up reports about stuff for 2 main reasons:
1. money
2. because they dont have a clue ~75% of the time
CNN, New York times, The West Australian are all businesses. The only way they make money is to sell papers, sell ratings. How do you do that? You simply blow something out of proportion or make some poor guy a victim of something and blah blah blah, you get my idea.

Occasionly the media does do something good like expose some corruption high up or actually predict the weather correctly. Other then that the media is generally got it head stuck to far up its own ass when is comes to "terrorism", "bomb making" and statistics. It has just comes down to money in the end.

I was doing a report on US government conspiracies, and some interesting things do come to light with a little research. Oklahoma City has some expecially interesting things to it. Some things that made me change my stance to it wasn't all McVeigh. Magically 500 pounds of ANFO took out a building the size of a city block. There were also magically no important government officials inside(I never found out if this was true or not, but I came across it). They also had bomb sniffing dogs out the morning of the incident.

I believe there was something, or someone, that was going to let loose some important government secret. One of those "Threat to National Security, so we're going to blow it straight to hell" type of things.

Right!
If anybody watches TechTV, there was a nice special on WACO and Oklahoma City on a show called 'Conspiracies' (don't ask why they have this on TechTV? It's a good show though.)
A pal of mine had taped it and let me watch it.
They pointed out the same things, that 'coincidentally' all the 'top' people were not present that day! Hello?! And also the bomb sniffing dogs. As well as mention of the real 'mastermind' behind the bombing, yet there was no focus on him. From what I gathered McVeigh did have a sort of gripe towards the government due to some bad experience in the past, so this mysterious guy fed off that, hyped up McVeigh to do the job and he did it. Guinea pig if you ask me.

It just bother's me how many lemmings there are in society. Too timid to unite and take a stand. Most people just want to be left alone and live in their little bubble thinking that things won't really get THAT bad. Boy are they in for a surprise. The smart ones will be the prepared, cautious, and alert ones. ;)

Just make sure that the fact you're cautious and ready does not leave your bubble...

I don't see why people always seem to think that conspiracies are impossible, or at least improbable. Every group has an agenda; why wouldn't the government have one? These conspiracies are nothing more than propaganda. Every time that they need to demonize someone, or sometimes if they want to glorify the ATF and gun control laws, something like this happens.

For example, I wouldn't be surprised if they knew about Columbine in advance. I did a long report on Columbine a few months ago. There is alot of secrecy surrounding the whole event. The victims' families kept saying that they wanted certain evidence to be released to the public so that they could "know the truth about what happened." Their requests were always denied with no explanation.

the people in waco were doing nothing illegal the just had lots of guns and strange religios beliefs
is this a fee county!?
having guns is a right
freedom of religion is a right
now what if i ware funy cloths and like playing with bombs will you come birn my house down

Yes, they will, with no infringement of your rights - "bombs" or other illegal devices designed to cause harm are just that - illegal. They would be within their rights and your laws to do it.

Freddy, after the incidents at Ruby Ridge and Waco, I don't think the
feds would make a point of burning you down. Much as I disagree with
gun control, the reason for these raids, the people in these locations
resisted and that's when events took a nasty turn. Randy Weaver
might have walked away because when he did eventually get to trial
the jury threw out the charge for the sawed-off shotguns because they
felt he had been entrapped. He was found guilty and sent to prison
for failure to appear. The BATF tried to serve a search warrant on the
Branch Davidians for illegally converting semiautomatic rifles to machine
guns. Again, there was resistance and all hell broke loose.

I'm not excusing the tactics used by the feds in these cases. They have
a lot to answer for. The feds hide behind their actions and even their
anti-gun allies in Congress stonewalled most of the serious inquiries
about these events. Last year, a kid who looked like a wanted bank
robber was shot in the face by an FBI agent with an M-4. The kid hadn't
done anything wrong and his parents have been told they can't sue the
federal government because the agent "followed procedure".

What's really needed is a repeal of sovereign immunity - sometimes
referred to as "the king can do no wrong". Hit them in the wallet when
they screwup. The trial lawyers will love it !

It's not likely you'll get burned down if you don't resist arrest. You will go
to jail.

Also, can anyone think of a way to fight this change in popular sentiment?" -photonic


An unknown power is feared, a commonplace power is respected, knowledge is power after all. A man released from his indoctrination errr... shooling has almost no knowledge of explosives and weapons, and since "they" are arresting you now for what you can do, rather than what you've done, he's also afraid to learn. The media makes you afraid of a scientist, and the government makes you afraid to become a scientist.

If you can throw a wrench in those gears be my guest. Otherwise, just stick the forum, say fuck the media, and keep your hobby a secret :)

Gosh, what great options! Either roll over and let them fuck you, or don't roll over and get fucked anyway...

If the government didn't keep lying, the situation might improve.

In the UK, the Kelly inquiry just found the government not guilty, despite all the evidence, and everyone keeps saying the guy killed himself. Well, that was a pretty fucking fast conclusion, and how many people slash their wrists to kill themselves? Quite a few, but few actually manage it, nor do they do it in a public place, and normally, men pick "faster"* ways to top themselves, like CO poisoning or whatever. I reckon he was killed. It was vital to stall for a few months, till the fight was won, so the govt. bumped him off, as they knew they could stall the inquiry and get away with it. I found this when I looked: http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00151.htm
Also http://www.deadscientists.blogspot.com/


* I am trying to say that men normally kill themselves in a way that is final, like a shotgun to the head, or at least one that isn't painful. It just seems wrong that this guy while out walking decided to slit his wrists (which must REALLY hurt) and then just bleed to death...

The USA lies all the time, and they do treat the general population like cattle.

So, how can you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips are moving.

Who watches the watchers?

Jack's Complete, the options are bad as you have said. I'd rather take my
chances with the court and risk losing rather than getting killed by 1 of those
assholes. Of course, there's no guarantee that they'd let me live to plead
my case in court. Overzealous cops with nothing to fear from the system
can and do become more brutal in their techniques when the system discards
the defendant's rights. That's why they love the Patriot Act and rules that
allow them to confiscate without regard to the Constitution.

Often, political debates centering around the rights of the accused become
a shouting match. The cops, prosecutors, and judges view any law or
legal interpretation that strengthens a defendant's rights as being a decision
that abets lawless behavior. Constitutional and legal scholars, of course,
view such decisions as supportive of guaranteed rights not to be trampled
on by the system.

You can't be fucked with if you're dead. If you're alive to face a "fair" trail on the contrary....

If they're going through such lenghts to take you down, you can be sure that you'll be seriously fucked when you're apprehended, no matter if you're innocent or not.
Better go down fighting for what you're worth then.

A dead man who died fighting for what he believed is the greatest inspiration you can dream of.

Also, one would think a forum member would be a bit harder to take down than some religious nutcase.

I've already been fucked with by the law(locals) once. The trial was not fair in
the least. The attitude conveyed by judge was 1 of extreme bias. In my case
it was gun control. It seems that self defense is a crime in the state of
Maryland unless it's done with no weapon at all. Even then excessive force
laws can come into play. It's clear to me that the system is more interested
in protecting the 2 crackheads who tried to rob me than to honor my rights.
I feel as though I've been fucked all the way around - by the criminals and
by the law. I went out in handcuffs - better than a body bag. I'm not done
with these assholes - I'm filing a lawsuit against them. I'll hurt them the
same way they hurt me and my family - with their own fucked up system.

2 months after I left that shithole community, the crack dealers and their
clients had a fierce gun battle. My former neighbors told me about it.
Since then many of them have moved elsewhere.

If our society is so damn safe, let's disarm the asshole cops. That of course
will never happen because governments never relinquish power willingly and
always maintain a monopoly on deadly force. Besides, they'd have a hard
time keeping up with funerals for dead cops.

And they wonder how extremist groups come into existence.

Mumble,

You might want to recheck those figures. As I remember it the estimated amount of ANFO used at Oklahoma City was 4,000 lbs (about 7 or 8- 55gal drums full) not 500 lbs. I talked to one of the Firemen that was first on scene and he said one of the secondary explosions was when the boiler (Steam Heat) exploded in the basement. He had no idea what the 3rd explosion was that was heard.