megalomania
June 21st, 2003, 01:12 PM
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1235
From: Satans asshole!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-04-2001 09:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Found this on the 'net. Seems feasible. I'd use manufactured cardboard tubes instead of rolling up magazines though.
============================================
For instance, if you required an untraceable shotgun, be it for personal defense or a covert mission, you don't want to jog over to your neighborhood gun shop and pick up a Mossy, duly reported to the FBI. And if you wish to be truly circumspect, even buying from the back of an old Buick might not be a good idea. Such an informal dealer is at a disadvantage in dealing with the police - if his customers can find him, so can the uniforms; and they hold the leverage of being able to arrest and prosecute him if he fails to cooperate. (Fences have the same weakness, of course.)
So a purchase may be a bad idea. In such cases, you should consider making your own shotgun. One process that requires no particular skills, save the ability to use glue without permanently embedding yourself in your project and a drill without inflicting lethal perforations, is as follows:
Single-shot, Disposable Shotgun
Materials Needed:
Shotshell
Paper strip, approx. 2" wide, several feet long (or multiple strips)
Paper strip, approx. 3-4" wide, 2-3' long: Alternate - wooden dowel, diameter equal to shotshell
Elastic band (rubber band or inner tube rubber)
Nail (16P is fine)
3 to 5 magazines (yes, the kind you read)
glue, tape, twine
1. Obtain a shotshell of charge and load suitable to your application. (This device will be rather less than a full length long arm, but a bit more than a pistol; 12 gauge may be more than you wish to deal with here, although I have seen it done.) Start by taking a long strip of paper, and gluing one end to the length of the shotshell. The edge of the paper should be flush with the rim at the base of the shell. Now you should roll the paper tightly around the shell. The intent is to increase the diameter of the shell case to equal the rim diameter. Whether or not the paper also extends beyond the crimp of the shell is immaterial. When you have finished rolling, glue the paper end in place so that it will not unroll.
2. For the second part of your tool-of-defense-to-be, you have some options. One is to take a 16 penny nail and wrap paper around it (as with the shell above), but leaving the nail loose within the roll so that it can freely slide through the center of the roll. The roll should equal the diameter of the rolled shell assembly, and be a quarter to a half inch shorter than your nail. Before making the final few revolutions around the nail, stretch a strong rubber band (or possibly a length of rubber from a tire inner tube) across one end of the thick-walled tube which you are forming. Glue each end in place, and continue with the last few wraps of paper.
Alternatively, instead of forming a tube of paper, you may wish to use a wooden dowel with a diameter matching the shotshell assembly. In this case, you will need to drill a hole the entire length of the dowel. The hole should be just wide enough to allow the nail to slide freely. Again, you will need to stretch an elastic band across the hole at one end.
The nail is going to be the firing pin for our improvised shotgun. While not absolutely required, it is best to file the point down until it is slightly rounded rather than sharp. Slide the nail into your tube/dowel so that the point extends beyond the end of the tube and the nail head is covered by the elastic band. This is your firing assembly.
3. Now place the firing assembly end to end with the shotshell assembly so that the nail point contacts the shotshell primer. Gently press the firing assembly flush against the shotshell base and tape the two sections together. Note that at this point you can now fire the shotshell by pulling the nail back against the tension of the elastic band and releasing it. The safety challenged among us should also note that this device has no safety; be careful.
4. Next, take the magazines and sanitize them. By this, I mean to be sure you haven't left an address label with your name and address on them. It would be a terrible shame to go to all this trouble to construct an untraceable weapon only to leave the police your calling card.
Once that is done, roll a magazine very tightly around the shell and firing assembly. The firing assembly should be flush with the edge of the magazine, with the firing pin/nail extending beyond it. By now, this rolling process should quite familiar to you. Tape or glue the magazine in place so that it will not unroll. Repeat this process with at least two more magazines. Do not roll so many magazines that you cannot get a firm grip on your new weapon. After the final magazine, wrap the roll with tape or twine.
You have constructed a shotgun. Compared to a steel-barreled gun, this one is very short range; say, mugger-range. (And won't that mugger be surprised when the supposedly helpless bookworm takes him out with an armful of reading material!) As stated before, it is also a single-use device; once fired, you merely dispose of the incriminating evidence by tossing it into a convenient dumpster, or even by incinerating it.
When firing, particularly with a larger gauge shell, be prepared for significant recoil. Grip the weapon firmly. Bracing it against a hip may well be advised. Point it at the offending aggressor, pull back your firing pin, and release. In addition to the recoil and muzzle blast to which you may already be accustomed, you can also expect a shower of confetti. Think of it as a celebration of the elimination of a goblin. But also remember to carefully brush any off of yourself.
Perhaps it has occurred to you to wonder if this process can be applied to other cartridges than only shotshells. It most certainly can. I believe that you might find such a gadget scaled down to .45ACP (or even .38 Special) to be quite manageable and concealable. With a little imagination, you can probably think of several occasions when a disposable zip gun which the usual metal detector will overlook could be handy in the extreme. Trips through federal buildings and airports spring to mind. Be creative.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 706
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-05-2001 05:21 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it exploded the only shrapnel would come from the cartridge case, thats good.
Sgt_Starr
Frequent Poster
Posts: 120
From: Petersburg
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-05-2001 11:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys,
Talking about getting them through metal detectors, Couldnt you use The type of Titanium that they use to put pins and braces in during operations.(depending on price) To manufacture a professionally crafted Glock( or some pistol to that degree) Im just asking because that kind of Ti isnt detectable by metal dectectors so youd have a premium weapon and be able to pass it through any kind of customs.
------------------
"Oh Sh".::BOOM::((later
in front of saint peter))
"it"
deezs
Frequent Poster
Posts: 113
From: Hungary
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-05-2001 02:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paper shotgun. Hey man! A nice dream! Things like this works only in the magic hands of Macguyver.
I don't know how it goes in other countries, but in Hungary (Eastern-Europe) metal detectors can notice even that small rivets on your jeans (I think they are made from copper not steel). I was in the Parliament last year. I was felt fuckin hung-over, so I don't remember anything, just that the metal detector beeped by everybody. We were wearing mostly jeans, and it took half an hour to get into the building. Perhaps in airports the detectors are set not to be so sensitive, but a big nail is surely detected!
I think not the detection is the greatest problem. If you want to kill someone on an airplane - I don't think, that anybody on this Forum wants to do something like this... - you can have a better weapon if you make a knife from plexi glass.
Paper shotgun for self defence? It's firs problem is it's unreliablity. I know what I say. When I have seen first time the zip-guns on the net I wanted to have one. Next week I went to a lathe operator. I have asked him to make a special spare part for my vacuum-pump. He doesn't know, even today, that he has made the barell of my first gun.:-)
The wall of the barell was 3 mm thick. It is too strong for a .22 cartridge, but I was always careful. That is why I have never, any kind of accident in my lab. So the barell was nice, and I had a suitable firing-pin, I needed just a strong spring. I haven't found any. Up to now. I have tested a few dozens, but none of them were reliable enough. Back to the shotgun. The primer of a shotshell is much thicker than a .22 cartridge. In a rifle, there is so fuckin strong spring. How the hell could you improvise that????
But if you can, please post the plans!!! I would like to build a small self-defence weapon. That would be something like a wey short shotgun, with a 10 cm long steel barell. It would work with shotshells, but without lead. I would rather use some kind of colorful piro mixture. That would be better than a gas-spray...
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-05-2001 06:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds good in theory. Thick walled paper tubes can take a lot of pressure, it's just the joints that are weak. I think the gun might blow apart at the breach, afterall there is only a few wraps of tape holding it on.
The elastic band powered firing pin might give you trouble in it not hitting the primer hard enough. An alternative might be to attach a small piece of wood/plastic to the head of the nail and hit it with the heel of your hard to fire.
An interesting way to get through metal detectors though, the gun could even be constructed once past security.
The_Coyote
New Member
Posts: 18
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-05-2001 11:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
deezs, For a simple self defence weapon look at the post for the "12ga Dart Gun".You could probably use full shot shells. It looks very promising....as long as you don't need to go through metal detectors of course. It would take a very minute amount of welding and possibly a small amount of maching depending on your design.
------------------
Gun control is being able to hit your target.
[This message has been edited by The_Coyote (edited July 05, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by The_Coyote (edited July 05, 2001).]
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1235
From: Satans asshole!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 05:01 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything metallic can be replaced with non-metallic. Shotgun cartridges were originally all paper. Primers can be replaced with pressed pellets of impact or friction sensitive material. Lead shot with glass fragments.
And what about roman candles? Same principle. As long as the barrel is sturdy and unobstructed the force will take the path of least resistance, out, not through.
Besides, you're not going to be engaging in a firefight with it, just a sneak attack or last resort type thing.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 07-06-2001 10:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmm...interesting idea
altho i would just make it out of gal pipe (the old style gal pipe, the thick shit)
i used to have a shotty made from gal pipe once...but had to ditch it off a cliff running from the cops once...never found it again
i was a similar idea to the paper, only using pipe for a barrel, and a spring loaded firing pin
(unscrew the barrel, load the shell, pull the pin back to the catch, screw the barrel back in, release the catch...pretty simple)
i should make another one (altho it would be pointless as i nolonger have access to shotty shells)
also, one problem with the paper barrek is its almost going to be blown to shit at the breech which means there going to be tiny little bits of paper going everywhere (all over your clothes)...nothing like forensics to match microscopic pieces of paper on your jacket to pieces from the barrel...
[This message has been edited by Mick (edited July 06, 2001).]
BaDSeeD
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: buffalo, ny
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 01:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually NBK shotgun shells were originally brass across the entire length, with a paper cap on the front. They were later turned into mostly paper, but still had a brass "coin" on the back end to hold the primer, and engage the extractor.
------------------
BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1013
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-06-2001 03:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about a barrel made of fibreglass and resin? That could take a great deal of pressure.
If you want a spring for the firing pin then use a spring designed for an air rifle or a spring powered air pistol. The air rifle ones are much stronger than the spring in the only gun I've ever used.
Be careful when cleaning a rifle: The ones we used to use in the CCF at school were L98-A1's. The first time we cleaned them I took it apart and the spring launched the breech block into my face! It didn't hurt much, but it was a bit of a surprise!
Oh, and most airport metal detectors I've seen are shit. I walked through with a pocket full of coins several times and nothing happened! Perhaps they're just a deterant, like only about 25% of speed cameras in this country are real, but you never know which ones...
Anyway, I think fibreglass barrels are the best way to go if you don't want to make a metal one.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 07:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've just given me another project to add to my list of things to do - a plastic gun
I found a pocket of change doesn't set off any of the metal detectors I've been through at air ports. The threshhold level must be set pretty high, mind you most guns have a hell of a lot of metal in them. A single pistol cartridge and a steel firing pin shoudldn't set it off. These parts could be carried seperately to avoid drawing attention to the gun if the metal detector did go off.
Where would be the best place to hide the gun on your body? (no witty anal cavity answers please...)
I remember reading in the UK they did a test on airport security and a guy stuck a handgun into the back of his jeans (where TV action heros keep them) walked through the metal detector, it went off, they frisked him or waved the metal detector wand at him and let him through.
Anyone else seen those signs at hand luggage x-ray points? The ones that say "no jokes beyond this point" "All comments regarding high-jacking of the plane will be taken seriously" = rubber glove room!
Predator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 144
From: Unknown
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 10:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's whether the amount of coins you have on you or not that is the issue with those metal detectors, rather the TYPE of metal.
Coins aren't ferrous (magnetic), whereas gun steel usually is. Ferrous metals like the type used to make firearms and weaponry probably produce a different "pattern" in the waves emitted from the metal detector then say the disturbances a bunch of coins would make and the metal detector could be set to only detect ferrous metals.
However, I suspect that they have a switch that could simply be flipped to detect ALL metals and not just the ferrous type.
Of course it could be a combination of both: certain metal types and quantity before alarm goes off.
Victim
New Member
Posts: 11
From: Nottinghamshire
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-06-2001 10:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony - I have the newspaper clippings your talking about I will upload it and post the link here, I thought when reading this some of your post sounded familiar.
Sako
New Member
Posts: 40
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 07-06-2001 11:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr cool - I was thinking the same thing, But doesn't fiberglass shatter when its hit hard? So I don't think that's a good idea. but Kevlar and resin might work. I have some Kevlar roving and I might be able to get so resin. If i can get the stuff, I'll make a test barrel but I don't have any bullet. so I'll find some other way to test it i.e. hit it with an ax
[This message has been edited by Sako (edited July 06, 2001).]
Heavy Recoil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: nope, try again
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-06-2001 11:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An idea on concealing bullets, you could make them look like batteries. plaster of paris, some silver paint, and the wrapper off another battery, maybe have a wire thru the side and mettle contacts so current can pass thru it, so if the turn it on it will work. firing pins could be stored in the antenna of a cell phone.
------------------
"I'm not an assassin. killing is more of a hobby with me."' Robert A. Heinlein
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 706
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-07-2001 04:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A slam-bang design would probably be better, you could cast the firing pin in the larger tube with epoxy or bondo, this presents a risk of the firing pin becoming shrapnel though.
If an entirely non-metallic design is wanted the firing pin could be made from PVC rod, or any other hard plastic.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1013
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-07-2001 11:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fibreglass won't shatter, but the resin might. I e-mailed the place where I get my resin from to see if there were any additives that would make the resin more flexible (to prevent cracking in AN composites), but got no reply. If there was one, it could be used to prevent shattering in the barrel.
Victim
New Member
Posts: 11
From: Nottinghamshire
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-07-2001 01:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well here is the newspaper clipping Anthony was talking about.
http://innercircle.topcities.com/gun.jpg
- Thanks to NBK
[This message has been edited by Victim (edited July 08, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-08-2001 08:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victim, that link leads to topcities' homepage.
Kevlar set in epoxy reson would make a barrel many times stronger than the equivilent weight in steel (or any metal IIRC).
Someone did mention that they hid two .22LR's inside a rabbot foot keyring and simply put it (on his keys) in the basket before going though the metal detector and collected it on the other side.
I also remember reading years ago about a very small gun that was sliping through air port security. IIRC is was a little gun on a keyring, held two .177 rounds and you pulled the keyring to fire and lethal all the way out to 10yds Apparently they slipped through because they looked like a keyring (duh) apparently available in europe for about Ģ15 - I want one, they sound nifty
Predator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 144
From: Unknown
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-08-2001 08:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topcities don't let you link to files on their computer directly, so just let it open up that topcities main page, then paste "http://innercircle.topcities.com/gun.jpg" into that address bar. It should open up ok
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 267
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-09-2001 09:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I always wonder how it turned out to put gun parts in instruments with resenblance; eg:barrel in the steel tube of a extended push/pull bag carrier or even baby cart perhaps.....or put chemicals tied to the body since I've been to most of intl. airports and notice there's no sniffing detector for passenger (maybe I didn;t notice hard enough?) and also a guy get caught with "chemical" because he acts strange....eg:just try to pull that Mr. Bean joke at an airport and see what happen
anyway, there's this silly experience while I was a child in Sydney airport long ago:
I like collecting matches, so I took from casino, hotels, lounge room,...everywhere.
By the time I pass through the detector, I got about 15 packs of matches, then BEEEP!
first I play stupid, and think it might be my electronic organizer so I took it out and went back.. BEEEP, by this time the huge officer started feeling my pockets and of course, I got to emty them, 16 matches packs and the guy smirks; I believe he told something about max 4 or 2 match only permitted, so I check again and BEEEP, this time I'm gettin nervous, I took off the jacket and silly me, there's a flashlight in my under side jacket pouch. DARN, should have succeeded with a nice collection of matches packs
J
Moderator
Posts: 635
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-14-2001 10:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The firing pin could be made out of wooden dowel tipped with a hard piece of rock like Quartz or Marble. I've read about a gun like this before, being made in prison. There was a roll of paper, with match heads as a propellent and a ball bearing as the bullet (it didn't mention exactly how the inmate was meant to get a bb though). It was wrapped with twine for strength.
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 412
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-14-2001 08:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use those small balls inside the small ink cartridges used for fountain pens. I think they are glass, but if you are only using match heads as a propellant, a load of these should do some damage at a close range.
BaDSeeD
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: buffalo, ny
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-15-2001 05:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Predator just because American coins are non-ferrous, dosn't mean that applies to other countries coins.
Stick a magnet to Canadian quarters, nickels, and dimes.
------------------
BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
Predator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 144
From: Unknown
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-15-2001 05:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My oversight, sorry.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1513
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-15-2001 06:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have found out in some airorts they can adjust the sensitivity of the scanner to pick up small objects or relitively large ones. they may also be able to adjust it to get set off with ferrous or non ferous metals, I guess it depends on the priority of the flight and what level of security their under, once I went on a trip and I kept setting off their detector, I finally forund out it was a spint I have between two teeth on my bottom row of teeth spanning a whole 4 teeth wide and it is just like a little wire! another at the same airport I did not set off the detector
Heavy Recoil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: nope, try again
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-17-2001 03:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about a small caliber bullet in a paper barrel tube of 2cm dia. using a pullstring igniter from a party popper. a nonmetalic projectial a sleeve of cardboard with a cotton ball. have the string come out the bottom of the tube the cardboard and cotton sleeve on the top. put in a tampax wraper. a nice small gun that will not create much suspicion in any ladies handbag. using it as what it would look like would probably have more risk than toxic shock syndrome though
do I really have to tell you what it is?
Moderator
Posts: 1235
From: Satans asshole!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-04-2001 09:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Found this on the 'net. Seems feasible. I'd use manufactured cardboard tubes instead of rolling up magazines though.
============================================
For instance, if you required an untraceable shotgun, be it for personal defense or a covert mission, you don't want to jog over to your neighborhood gun shop and pick up a Mossy, duly reported to the FBI. And if you wish to be truly circumspect, even buying from the back of an old Buick might not be a good idea. Such an informal dealer is at a disadvantage in dealing with the police - if his customers can find him, so can the uniforms; and they hold the leverage of being able to arrest and prosecute him if he fails to cooperate. (Fences have the same weakness, of course.)
So a purchase may be a bad idea. In such cases, you should consider making your own shotgun. One process that requires no particular skills, save the ability to use glue without permanently embedding yourself in your project and a drill without inflicting lethal perforations, is as follows:
Single-shot, Disposable Shotgun
Materials Needed:
Shotshell
Paper strip, approx. 2" wide, several feet long (or multiple strips)
Paper strip, approx. 3-4" wide, 2-3' long: Alternate - wooden dowel, diameter equal to shotshell
Elastic band (rubber band or inner tube rubber)
Nail (16P is fine)
3 to 5 magazines (yes, the kind you read)
glue, tape, twine
1. Obtain a shotshell of charge and load suitable to your application. (This device will be rather less than a full length long arm, but a bit more than a pistol; 12 gauge may be more than you wish to deal with here, although I have seen it done.) Start by taking a long strip of paper, and gluing one end to the length of the shotshell. The edge of the paper should be flush with the rim at the base of the shell. Now you should roll the paper tightly around the shell. The intent is to increase the diameter of the shell case to equal the rim diameter. Whether or not the paper also extends beyond the crimp of the shell is immaterial. When you have finished rolling, glue the paper end in place so that it will not unroll.
2. For the second part of your tool-of-defense-to-be, you have some options. One is to take a 16 penny nail and wrap paper around it (as with the shell above), but leaving the nail loose within the roll so that it can freely slide through the center of the roll. The roll should equal the diameter of the rolled shell assembly, and be a quarter to a half inch shorter than your nail. Before making the final few revolutions around the nail, stretch a strong rubber band (or possibly a length of rubber from a tire inner tube) across one end of the thick-walled tube which you are forming. Glue each end in place, and continue with the last few wraps of paper.
Alternatively, instead of forming a tube of paper, you may wish to use a wooden dowel with a diameter matching the shotshell assembly. In this case, you will need to drill a hole the entire length of the dowel. The hole should be just wide enough to allow the nail to slide freely. Again, you will need to stretch an elastic band across the hole at one end.
The nail is going to be the firing pin for our improvised shotgun. While not absolutely required, it is best to file the point down until it is slightly rounded rather than sharp. Slide the nail into your tube/dowel so that the point extends beyond the end of the tube and the nail head is covered by the elastic band. This is your firing assembly.
3. Now place the firing assembly end to end with the shotshell assembly so that the nail point contacts the shotshell primer. Gently press the firing assembly flush against the shotshell base and tape the two sections together. Note that at this point you can now fire the shotshell by pulling the nail back against the tension of the elastic band and releasing it. The safety challenged among us should also note that this device has no safety; be careful.
4. Next, take the magazines and sanitize them. By this, I mean to be sure you haven't left an address label with your name and address on them. It would be a terrible shame to go to all this trouble to construct an untraceable weapon only to leave the police your calling card.
Once that is done, roll a magazine very tightly around the shell and firing assembly. The firing assembly should be flush with the edge of the magazine, with the firing pin/nail extending beyond it. By now, this rolling process should quite familiar to you. Tape or glue the magazine in place so that it will not unroll. Repeat this process with at least two more magazines. Do not roll so many magazines that you cannot get a firm grip on your new weapon. After the final magazine, wrap the roll with tape or twine.
You have constructed a shotgun. Compared to a steel-barreled gun, this one is very short range; say, mugger-range. (And won't that mugger be surprised when the supposedly helpless bookworm takes him out with an armful of reading material!) As stated before, it is also a single-use device; once fired, you merely dispose of the incriminating evidence by tossing it into a convenient dumpster, or even by incinerating it.
When firing, particularly with a larger gauge shell, be prepared for significant recoil. Grip the weapon firmly. Bracing it against a hip may well be advised. Point it at the offending aggressor, pull back your firing pin, and release. In addition to the recoil and muzzle blast to which you may already be accustomed, you can also expect a shower of confetti. Think of it as a celebration of the elimination of a goblin. But also remember to carefully brush any off of yourself.
Perhaps it has occurred to you to wonder if this process can be applied to other cartridges than only shotshells. It most certainly can. I believe that you might find such a gadget scaled down to .45ACP (or even .38 Special) to be quite manageable and concealable. With a little imagination, you can probably think of several occasions when a disposable zip gun which the usual metal detector will overlook could be handy in the extreme. Trips through federal buildings and airports spring to mind. Be creative.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 706
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-05-2001 05:21 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it exploded the only shrapnel would come from the cartridge case, thats good.
Sgt_Starr
Frequent Poster
Posts: 120
From: Petersburg
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-05-2001 11:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys,
Talking about getting them through metal detectors, Couldnt you use The type of Titanium that they use to put pins and braces in during operations.(depending on price) To manufacture a professionally crafted Glock( or some pistol to that degree) Im just asking because that kind of Ti isnt detectable by metal dectectors so youd have a premium weapon and be able to pass it through any kind of customs.
------------------
"Oh Sh".::BOOM::((later
in front of saint peter))
"it"
deezs
Frequent Poster
Posts: 113
From: Hungary
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-05-2001 02:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paper shotgun. Hey man! A nice dream! Things like this works only in the magic hands of Macguyver.
I don't know how it goes in other countries, but in Hungary (Eastern-Europe) metal detectors can notice even that small rivets on your jeans (I think they are made from copper not steel). I was in the Parliament last year. I was felt fuckin hung-over, so I don't remember anything, just that the metal detector beeped by everybody. We were wearing mostly jeans, and it took half an hour to get into the building. Perhaps in airports the detectors are set not to be so sensitive, but a big nail is surely detected!
I think not the detection is the greatest problem. If you want to kill someone on an airplane - I don't think, that anybody on this Forum wants to do something like this... - you can have a better weapon if you make a knife from plexi glass.
Paper shotgun for self defence? It's firs problem is it's unreliablity. I know what I say. When I have seen first time the zip-guns on the net I wanted to have one. Next week I went to a lathe operator. I have asked him to make a special spare part for my vacuum-pump. He doesn't know, even today, that he has made the barell of my first gun.:-)
The wall of the barell was 3 mm thick. It is too strong for a .22 cartridge, but I was always careful. That is why I have never, any kind of accident in my lab. So the barell was nice, and I had a suitable firing-pin, I needed just a strong spring. I haven't found any. Up to now. I have tested a few dozens, but none of them were reliable enough. Back to the shotgun. The primer of a shotshell is much thicker than a .22 cartridge. In a rifle, there is so fuckin strong spring. How the hell could you improvise that????
But if you can, please post the plans!!! I would like to build a small self-defence weapon. That would be something like a wey short shotgun, with a 10 cm long steel barell. It would work with shotshells, but without lead. I would rather use some kind of colorful piro mixture. That would be better than a gas-spray...
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-05-2001 06:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds good in theory. Thick walled paper tubes can take a lot of pressure, it's just the joints that are weak. I think the gun might blow apart at the breach, afterall there is only a few wraps of tape holding it on.
The elastic band powered firing pin might give you trouble in it not hitting the primer hard enough. An alternative might be to attach a small piece of wood/plastic to the head of the nail and hit it with the heel of your hard to fire.
An interesting way to get through metal detectors though, the gun could even be constructed once past security.
The_Coyote
New Member
Posts: 18
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-05-2001 11:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
deezs, For a simple self defence weapon look at the post for the "12ga Dart Gun".You could probably use full shot shells. It looks very promising....as long as you don't need to go through metal detectors of course. It would take a very minute amount of welding and possibly a small amount of maching depending on your design.
------------------
Gun control is being able to hit your target.
[This message has been edited by The_Coyote (edited July 05, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by The_Coyote (edited July 05, 2001).]
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1235
From: Satans asshole!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 05:01 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything metallic can be replaced with non-metallic. Shotgun cartridges were originally all paper. Primers can be replaced with pressed pellets of impact or friction sensitive material. Lead shot with glass fragments.
And what about roman candles? Same principle. As long as the barrel is sturdy and unobstructed the force will take the path of least resistance, out, not through.
Besides, you're not going to be engaging in a firefight with it, just a sneak attack or last resort type thing.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 07-06-2001 10:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmm...interesting idea
altho i would just make it out of gal pipe (the old style gal pipe, the thick shit)
i used to have a shotty made from gal pipe once...but had to ditch it off a cliff running from the cops once...never found it again
i was a similar idea to the paper, only using pipe for a barrel, and a spring loaded firing pin
(unscrew the barrel, load the shell, pull the pin back to the catch, screw the barrel back in, release the catch...pretty simple)
i should make another one (altho it would be pointless as i nolonger have access to shotty shells)
also, one problem with the paper barrek is its almost going to be blown to shit at the breech which means there going to be tiny little bits of paper going everywhere (all over your clothes)...nothing like forensics to match microscopic pieces of paper on your jacket to pieces from the barrel...
[This message has been edited by Mick (edited July 06, 2001).]
BaDSeeD
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: buffalo, ny
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 01:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually NBK shotgun shells were originally brass across the entire length, with a paper cap on the front. They were later turned into mostly paper, but still had a brass "coin" on the back end to hold the primer, and engage the extractor.
------------------
BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1013
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-06-2001 03:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about a barrel made of fibreglass and resin? That could take a great deal of pressure.
If you want a spring for the firing pin then use a spring designed for an air rifle or a spring powered air pistol. The air rifle ones are much stronger than the spring in the only gun I've ever used.
Be careful when cleaning a rifle: The ones we used to use in the CCF at school were L98-A1's. The first time we cleaned them I took it apart and the spring launched the breech block into my face! It didn't hurt much, but it was a bit of a surprise!
Oh, and most airport metal detectors I've seen are shit. I walked through with a pocket full of coins several times and nothing happened! Perhaps they're just a deterant, like only about 25% of speed cameras in this country are real, but you never know which ones...
Anyway, I think fibreglass barrels are the best way to go if you don't want to make a metal one.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 07:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've just given me another project to add to my list of things to do - a plastic gun
I found a pocket of change doesn't set off any of the metal detectors I've been through at air ports. The threshhold level must be set pretty high, mind you most guns have a hell of a lot of metal in them. A single pistol cartridge and a steel firing pin shoudldn't set it off. These parts could be carried seperately to avoid drawing attention to the gun if the metal detector did go off.
Where would be the best place to hide the gun on your body? (no witty anal cavity answers please...)
I remember reading in the UK they did a test on airport security and a guy stuck a handgun into the back of his jeans (where TV action heros keep them) walked through the metal detector, it went off, they frisked him or waved the metal detector wand at him and let him through.
Anyone else seen those signs at hand luggage x-ray points? The ones that say "no jokes beyond this point" "All comments regarding high-jacking of the plane will be taken seriously" = rubber glove room!
Predator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 144
From: Unknown
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-06-2001 10:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it's whether the amount of coins you have on you or not that is the issue with those metal detectors, rather the TYPE of metal.
Coins aren't ferrous (magnetic), whereas gun steel usually is. Ferrous metals like the type used to make firearms and weaponry probably produce a different "pattern" in the waves emitted from the metal detector then say the disturbances a bunch of coins would make and the metal detector could be set to only detect ferrous metals.
However, I suspect that they have a switch that could simply be flipped to detect ALL metals and not just the ferrous type.
Of course it could be a combination of both: certain metal types and quantity before alarm goes off.
Victim
New Member
Posts: 11
From: Nottinghamshire
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-06-2001 10:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony - I have the newspaper clippings your talking about I will upload it and post the link here, I thought when reading this some of your post sounded familiar.
Sako
New Member
Posts: 40
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 07-06-2001 11:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr cool - I was thinking the same thing, But doesn't fiberglass shatter when its hit hard? So I don't think that's a good idea. but Kevlar and resin might work. I have some Kevlar roving and I might be able to get so resin. If i can get the stuff, I'll make a test barrel but I don't have any bullet. so I'll find some other way to test it i.e. hit it with an ax
[This message has been edited by Sako (edited July 06, 2001).]
Heavy Recoil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: nope, try again
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-06-2001 11:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An idea on concealing bullets, you could make them look like batteries. plaster of paris, some silver paint, and the wrapper off another battery, maybe have a wire thru the side and mettle contacts so current can pass thru it, so if the turn it on it will work. firing pins could be stored in the antenna of a cell phone.
------------------
"I'm not an assassin. killing is more of a hobby with me."' Robert A. Heinlein
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 706
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-07-2001 04:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A slam-bang design would probably be better, you could cast the firing pin in the larger tube with epoxy or bondo, this presents a risk of the firing pin becoming shrapnel though.
If an entirely non-metallic design is wanted the firing pin could be made from PVC rod, or any other hard plastic.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1013
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-07-2001 11:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fibreglass won't shatter, but the resin might. I e-mailed the place where I get my resin from to see if there were any additives that would make the resin more flexible (to prevent cracking in AN composites), but got no reply. If there was one, it could be used to prevent shattering in the barrel.
Victim
New Member
Posts: 11
From: Nottinghamshire
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-07-2001 01:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well here is the newspaper clipping Anthony was talking about.
http://innercircle.topcities.com/gun.jpg
- Thanks to NBK
[This message has been edited by Victim (edited July 08, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-08-2001 08:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victim, that link leads to topcities' homepage.
Kevlar set in epoxy reson would make a barrel many times stronger than the equivilent weight in steel (or any metal IIRC).
Someone did mention that they hid two .22LR's inside a rabbot foot keyring and simply put it (on his keys) in the basket before going though the metal detector and collected it on the other side.
I also remember reading years ago about a very small gun that was sliping through air port security. IIRC is was a little gun on a keyring, held two .177 rounds and you pulled the keyring to fire and lethal all the way out to 10yds Apparently they slipped through because they looked like a keyring (duh) apparently available in europe for about Ģ15 - I want one, they sound nifty
Predator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 144
From: Unknown
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-08-2001 08:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topcities don't let you link to files on their computer directly, so just let it open up that topcities main page, then paste "http://innercircle.topcities.com/gun.jpg" into that address bar. It should open up ok
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 267
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-09-2001 09:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I always wonder how it turned out to put gun parts in instruments with resenblance; eg:barrel in the steel tube of a extended push/pull bag carrier or even baby cart perhaps.....or put chemicals tied to the body since I've been to most of intl. airports and notice there's no sniffing detector for passenger (maybe I didn;t notice hard enough?) and also a guy get caught with "chemical" because he acts strange....eg:just try to pull that Mr. Bean joke at an airport and see what happen
anyway, there's this silly experience while I was a child in Sydney airport long ago:
I like collecting matches, so I took from casino, hotels, lounge room,...everywhere.
By the time I pass through the detector, I got about 15 packs of matches, then BEEEP!
first I play stupid, and think it might be my electronic organizer so I took it out and went back.. BEEEP, by this time the huge officer started feeling my pockets and of course, I got to emty them, 16 matches packs and the guy smirks; I believe he told something about max 4 or 2 match only permitted, so I check again and BEEEP, this time I'm gettin nervous, I took off the jacket and silly me, there's a flashlight in my under side jacket pouch. DARN, should have succeeded with a nice collection of matches packs
J
Moderator
Posts: 635
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-14-2001 10:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The firing pin could be made out of wooden dowel tipped with a hard piece of rock like Quartz or Marble. I've read about a gun like this before, being made in prison. There was a roll of paper, with match heads as a propellent and a ball bearing as the bullet (it didn't mention exactly how the inmate was meant to get a bb though). It was wrapped with twine for strength.
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 412
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-14-2001 08:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You could use those small balls inside the small ink cartridges used for fountain pens. I think they are glass, but if you are only using match heads as a propellant, a load of these should do some damage at a close range.
BaDSeeD
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: buffalo, ny
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-15-2001 05:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Predator just because American coins are non-ferrous, dosn't mean that applies to other countries coins.
Stick a magnet to Canadian quarters, nickels, and dimes.
------------------
BaDSeeD
Knowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.
Predator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 144
From: Unknown
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-15-2001 05:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My oversight, sorry.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1513
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-15-2001 06:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have found out in some airorts they can adjust the sensitivity of the scanner to pick up small objects or relitively large ones. they may also be able to adjust it to get set off with ferrous or non ferous metals, I guess it depends on the priority of the flight and what level of security their under, once I went on a trip and I kept setting off their detector, I finally forund out it was a spint I have between two teeth on my bottom row of teeth spanning a whole 4 teeth wide and it is just like a little wire! another at the same airport I did not set off the detector
Heavy Recoil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: nope, try again
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-17-2001 03:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about a small caliber bullet in a paper barrel tube of 2cm dia. using a pullstring igniter from a party popper. a nonmetalic projectial a sleeve of cardboard with a cotton ball. have the string come out the bottom of the tube the cardboard and cotton sleeve on the top. put in a tampax wraper. a nice small gun that will not create much suspicion in any ladies handbag. using it as what it would look like would probably have more risk than toxic shock syndrome though
do I really have to tell you what it is?