megalomania
June 14th, 2003, 08:25 PM
EP
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-27-2001 10:06 AM
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I know a guy who was in the army and told me about something they were shown how to make. It was a 55 gallon drum filled with gas (I dont know if it was Av gas or just regular) and the top was put on. Then C4 was spread around the top rim. This is buried just below the ground and when it goes off the gas is shot into the air on fire and comes splashing down over a wide area. I was told a 55gal would spread to cover about 100 sq yards. This could be improvised very easily with just a larger amount of ANNM and a 5 gal bucket to make it smaller.
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-28-2001 12:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EP, the device that you describe is used as an improvised defense or ambush device. The barrel also had several wraps of detonating cord wrapped around the top of the barrel and a WP, white phosphorus, grenade attached to the cord. The det cord removed the barrel top, detonated the WP grenade and then detonated the expelling charge. The WP assured the ignition of the gasoline(should be thickened).
Do not depend upon straight explosives to ignite the gasoline unless the explosives or modified. Enhancement with magnesium or aluminum powder will facilitate ignition, in most cases.
EP
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-28-2001 03:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All I said is what I was told. He did not go into the detail you did, thanks!
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-28-2001 01:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking this could be done on a much smaller scale. Instead of a bucket a pill bottle or jar and a blasting cap instead of the C-4. Do you think it would work as a granade type as I explained?
DaRkDwArF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 258
From: Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 06:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, I'd use Gas against a tank, just personal preferance, but unless that napalm contains red phosperous it's not even going to singe the tank
Spudgunner
New Member
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-29-2001 06:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, no, napalm may not singe the tank, but where do the men get their air? It is rather hard to breathe fire, or 800 degree air. If the flames are large, they will not really get any oxygen. If the flames are not that big, they will get a whole lot of smoke. I think that is the point of the gas mine, not to incinerate the tank, but to deprive the operators of air.
------------------
Give me immortality or give me death!
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 07:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tanks have air filters - a bit of smoke is nothing to them. Not sure about being deprived of oxygen, they might have bottled oxygen or just driving about would get enough air to the tank?
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 07:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, they have bottled air, I think they can even use it to run the big desil engins they have for a short while
Spudgunner
New Member
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-29-2001 09:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, ok. Thats cool. I guess the stuff I read was outdated. Although I guess it would work on older tanks that dont have filters. Do those air tanks kick in automatically? How long do they last? What WOULD be able to take out the tank, other than rockets or strategically placed explosives? IE, the running up and sticking explosives on turret. With that gas mine, does it just create a FAE, or does it rain flaming gas down on the area? I am assuming it depends on how you do it.
------------------
Give me immortality or give me death!
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 10:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would think that a bomb that scattered a couple of gallons of freon or halon gas would kill most engines very quickly, tanks engines take 12 minites to start
McBacon
New Member
Posts: 1
From: Sweden
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-30-2001 05:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topic: Anti personel gas mine:
Its a nice trap, however, it seems a bit unneccesary, the C4 alone could take out the intruder, but i guess ou want to clear out a whole area, and then it sems effective, and fun.
Tanks discussion:
Well, a modern tank is a dfangerous weapon, aslong as its in the right angle. But with some well placed explosives, and a good aim in the igniting area, i thing you could tip it over, and than its pretty worthless unttil its reenforcements come along. But you would get some time there to finish it off.
Or you could dig a big hole in the ground, and cover it with sticks and leavs, and
if you fill the hole wiht water, the crew would have to leave it pritty soon...
------------------
I have not tried this myself, so consider me an unsure source.
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-30-2001 07:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No you couldnt finish the tank off, tanks travel with groups of soldiers, and sometimes trucks with medium caliber weapons.
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 05:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tanks have NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) protection systems so they would be pretty hard to crack.
does anyone know if an explosive placed between the driving wheel and track could blast a track off or are the tracks too tough?
richl261
Frequent Poster
Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-06-2001 02:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
didnt you see "saving private ryan"!?
the "sticky bombs" he made blew the tracks off the tank, remember!
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-06-2001 02:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would think a thermite device melting through the belt would work, just as long as the tank is stopped or going slow. you would need it not to get crushed but cause irreparable damage to the treads,maybee if you put it on top of them and it was fast burning
AR-15 Man
Frequent Poster
Posts: 180
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-06-2001 06:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys it would take a hell of a lot to destroy a tank. There is an army manual about this subject. Here is the link http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/21-75/Apph.htm Personally taking on a tank isn't my idea of fun. Even the army manual agrees that at best you are gonna disable it. Blowing the treads is the best idea. The area between the main area and the turret is also a weak point. Soviet tanks have the diesel fuel in the front so that adds extra protection. Some tanks have reactive armor. APC's have guns in them that allow troops inside to fire at you. Oh yea sticky bombs don't work anymore. You can also dig a tank trap to disable it. The best bet if you are taking on a tank someone in the area probably has antitank weapons.
It might be a good idea to liberate them. The army manuals tell how to convert artillery shells and such to anti tank mines so do so. The best idea is just to avoid a tank until you can get weapons to destroy it. If you can't remember if it is a tank why would it wanna go after one person. Just split up.
phyrelord
Frequent Poster
Posts: 135
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-08-2001 04:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the topic of anti-tank weapons go for a mine It's a lot easier to improvise. Most tank mines are about four foot long I think. The main goal is to destroy the tracks. Now as far as anti-personnel goes I think it would be better to create a fine mist of gas around the soldiers then detonate it. This would form a shockwave that would seriously damage the troops internal organs. This would be better than what Smag suggested because it could not be avoided by fire proof gear. It would make a sort of FAE
------------------
Winseln Sie für mich
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 03:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
once the track has been blown off - "sticky bombs" then the guys have to get out of the tank or it would be a death trap. then you could pick them of, or watch them run into your pre placed anti personel charges.
Gollum
Frequent Poster
Posts: 92
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-16-2001 03:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modern American tanks use turbine engines in them. Meaning they suck a lot of air. If you block the air passage, the turbine doesn't get cooling. Turbine engines have combustion temperatures you can't even imagine (Some are close to 900 C). So if it overheats it's bad news for everyone inside. The back of a tank is very weak, because it's generally not sloped like the front and sides are. And the armor is EXTREMELY weak if the hatch is in the back (That would be for a howitzer though). If you managed to get close enough, the hatch would be on the bottom left hand side of the turret. They usually use shaped charges for disabling tanks though.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-27-2001 10:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know a guy who was in the army and told me about something they were shown how to make. It was a 55 gallon drum filled with gas (I dont know if it was Av gas or just regular) and the top was put on. Then C4 was spread around the top rim. This is buried just below the ground and when it goes off the gas is shot into the air on fire and comes splashing down over a wide area. I was told a 55gal would spread to cover about 100 sq yards. This could be improvised very easily with just a larger amount of ANNM and a 5 gal bucket to make it smaller.
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-28-2001 12:56 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EP, the device that you describe is used as an improvised defense or ambush device. The barrel also had several wraps of detonating cord wrapped around the top of the barrel and a WP, white phosphorus, grenade attached to the cord. The det cord removed the barrel top, detonated the WP grenade and then detonated the expelling charge. The WP assured the ignition of the gasoline(should be thickened).
Do not depend upon straight explosives to ignite the gasoline unless the explosives or modified. Enhancement with magnesium or aluminum powder will facilitate ignition, in most cases.
EP
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-28-2001 03:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All I said is what I was told. He did not go into the detail you did, thanks!
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-28-2001 01:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking this could be done on a much smaller scale. Instead of a bucket a pill bottle or jar and a blasting cap instead of the C-4. Do you think it would work as a granade type as I explained?
DaRkDwArF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 258
From: Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 06:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, I'd use Gas against a tank, just personal preferance, but unless that napalm contains red phosperous it's not even going to singe the tank
Spudgunner
New Member
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-29-2001 06:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, no, napalm may not singe the tank, but where do the men get their air? It is rather hard to breathe fire, or 800 degree air. If the flames are large, they will not really get any oxygen. If the flames are not that big, they will get a whole lot of smoke. I think that is the point of the gas mine, not to incinerate the tank, but to deprive the operators of air.
------------------
Give me immortality or give me death!
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 07:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tanks have air filters - a bit of smoke is nothing to them. Not sure about being deprived of oxygen, they might have bottled oxygen or just driving about would get enough air to the tank?
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 07:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, they have bottled air, I think they can even use it to run the big desil engins they have for a short while
Spudgunner
New Member
Posts: 33
From: MO,USA
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-29-2001 09:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, ok. Thats cool. I guess the stuff I read was outdated. Although I guess it would work on older tanks that dont have filters. Do those air tanks kick in automatically? How long do they last? What WOULD be able to take out the tank, other than rockets or strategically placed explosives? IE, the running up and sticking explosives on turret. With that gas mine, does it just create a FAE, or does it rain flaming gas down on the area? I am assuming it depends on how you do it.
------------------
Give me immortality or give me death!
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 10:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would think that a bomb that scattered a couple of gallons of freon or halon gas would kill most engines very quickly, tanks engines take 12 minites to start
McBacon
New Member
Posts: 1
From: Sweden
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-30-2001 05:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topic: Anti personel gas mine:
Its a nice trap, however, it seems a bit unneccesary, the C4 alone could take out the intruder, but i guess ou want to clear out a whole area, and then it sems effective, and fun.
Tanks discussion:
Well, a modern tank is a dfangerous weapon, aslong as its in the right angle. But with some well placed explosives, and a good aim in the igniting area, i thing you could tip it over, and than its pretty worthless unttil its reenforcements come along. But you would get some time there to finish it off.
Or you could dig a big hole in the ground, and cover it with sticks and leavs, and
if you fill the hole wiht water, the crew would have to leave it pritty soon...
------------------
I have not tried this myself, so consider me an unsure source.
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-30-2001 07:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No you couldnt finish the tank off, tanks travel with groups of soldiers, and sometimes trucks with medium caliber weapons.
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 05:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tanks have NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) protection systems so they would be pretty hard to crack.
does anyone know if an explosive placed between the driving wheel and track could blast a track off or are the tracks too tough?
richl261
Frequent Poster
Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-06-2001 02:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
didnt you see "saving private ryan"!?
the "sticky bombs" he made blew the tracks off the tank, remember!
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-06-2001 02:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would think a thermite device melting through the belt would work, just as long as the tank is stopped or going slow. you would need it not to get crushed but cause irreparable damage to the treads,maybee if you put it on top of them and it was fast burning
AR-15 Man
Frequent Poster
Posts: 180
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-06-2001 06:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys it would take a hell of a lot to destroy a tank. There is an army manual about this subject. Here is the link http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/21-75/Apph.htm Personally taking on a tank isn't my idea of fun. Even the army manual agrees that at best you are gonna disable it. Blowing the treads is the best idea. The area between the main area and the turret is also a weak point. Soviet tanks have the diesel fuel in the front so that adds extra protection. Some tanks have reactive armor. APC's have guns in them that allow troops inside to fire at you. Oh yea sticky bombs don't work anymore. You can also dig a tank trap to disable it. The best bet if you are taking on a tank someone in the area probably has antitank weapons.
It might be a good idea to liberate them. The army manuals tell how to convert artillery shells and such to anti tank mines so do so. The best idea is just to avoid a tank until you can get weapons to destroy it. If you can't remember if it is a tank why would it wanna go after one person. Just split up.
phyrelord
Frequent Poster
Posts: 135
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-08-2001 04:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the topic of anti-tank weapons go for a mine It's a lot easier to improvise. Most tank mines are about four foot long I think. The main goal is to destroy the tracks. Now as far as anti-personnel goes I think it would be better to create a fine mist of gas around the soldiers then detonate it. This would form a shockwave that would seriously damage the troops internal organs. This would be better than what Smag suggested because it could not be avoided by fire proof gear. It would make a sort of FAE
------------------
Winseln Sie für mich
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 03:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
once the track has been blown off - "sticky bombs" then the guys have to get out of the tank or it would be a death trap. then you could pick them of, or watch them run into your pre placed anti personel charges.
Gollum
Frequent Poster
Posts: 92
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-16-2001 03:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modern American tanks use turbine engines in them. Meaning they suck a lot of air. If you block the air passage, the turbine doesn't get cooling. Turbine engines have combustion temperatures you can't even imagine (Some are close to 900 C). So if it overheats it's bad news for everyone inside. The back of a tank is very weak, because it's generally not sloped like the front and sides are. And the armor is EXTREMELY weak if the hatch is in the back (That would be for a howitzer though). If you managed to get close enough, the hatch would be on the bottom left hand side of the turret. They usually use shaped charges for disabling tanks though.