Talk:Centaur, Variant (5e Race)

Hello, I made a character with this Centaur before when it had the subraces, then someone went and deleted them and nerfed the race itself and made the character I had made, redundant. I'd like it if the original creator could make a variant or something so that those of use that liked the subraces may use them still. Thanks. --HolyPagan (talk) 13:14, 26 May 2018 (MDT)

This revision is the one before the race was nerfed by SgtLion (and thus before I nerfed it further). Be warned that that version of the race had a number of balance problems and was a great deal more powerful than any first-party race. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 13:25, 26 May 2018 (MDT)

Thanks but I don't care how Balanced or Powerful it is or seems, I like it for it's creative liberty and numerous chances at creative role playability. --HolyPagan (talk) 18:29, 27 June 2018 (MDT)

Hi Kydo, I like what you did to the centaur class it is close to the 5e, but it need more things to do. If you allow me i can but changes here and the when i find some good idea. Azernath (talk) 13:13, 9 January 2015 (MST)

Well, I'm still banging out the details. I haven't even gotten all of my thoughts down yet! I'm kind of doing this whenever I get a moment's peace at work. I'm a little worried about balance. I think the +2/+1 to combat oriented attributes may be a bad idea, especially with one subrace making that +2/+2 and the other putting a +1 in the third combat attribute. Their base move speed gives them a considerable combat advantage, as does their size, as they have a pretty ovewhelming battlefield presence. Additionally, the centabra's 10ft hoof attack allows it to control/threaten a 6×6 tile area that can be displaced by up to 10 tiles each round.

I want a balanced player race directly based on and similar to the monster race. That way, when they encounter other centaurs they work the same way. However, all together, a centaur is a pretty impressive combattant! I'm trying to make it work by breaking up the various powers into separate subraces, but I don't want to break it up so much that they might as well each be their own race.

I'm having the biggest trouble with their society and history though. They basically don't have any. The mythology and fiction sources are too divergent.--Kydo (talk) 14:23, 9 January 2015 (MST)

I got some ideas for the things you talk about:

1 - The Ability: the bonus you put are ok because the other races have almost the same amount of bonus, as for the combat attribute bonus for the size you can say that the Centaur start at Medium size and when the get to a specific age the became Large size, or you can keep the large size only to one of the subraces.

2 - The Base Movement And Hoof Attack: I believe that the base speed should be 60ft similar to the warhorse and the hoof attack is the same as the warhorse attack. And you say they since the are half horses the can't to some places, and if that is not enough i got an idea on my mind that i will put it later after your permission.

3 - The Society And History: You can make it as a nomad people traveling throughout the forest and the hills similar to the Mongolian and the Native American.

4 - To Hell With Balance: The world of Dungeons And Dragons is a hard world some are stronger then other's so try to make it balanced but don't burn your self for it.

that what i think but your free to do what ever you think right. :) Azernath (talk) 16:53, 9 January 2015 (MST)

That is it, great work. :) Azernath (talk) 12:38, 10 January 2015 (MST)

OK Azernath. Do your magic. I still find it concerning that a centauri monk can move 80ft. in 6 seconds. And somehow run up walls.--Kydo (talk) 20:22, 11 January 2015 (MST)

I don't know why they are proficient with pikes? It's not a hunting weapon. Marasmusine (talk) 02:20, 17 January 2015 (MST)

Because the monster entry says they are, and if is also mentioned in their description, though no justification is given. I imagine the bow is for hunting while thd pike is for actual combat. Unfortjnately, I have not taken the time to rephrase the monster entry into this.--Kydo (talk) 18:30, 17 January 2015 (MST)

what if we named it Forest Guardian or Forest Sentinel? Azernath (talk) 21:13, 17 January 2015 (MST)

The feature that grants the implicit weapon proficiencies? Sounds better than what I put! I am a little weirded out by the centaur's weapons though. A pike is an anti-cavalry; a lance is a cavalry weapon. I'm wondering if maybe it was a freudian slip that got printed before someone caught it, and they meant lance? Or maybe they figured a lance is too advanced of craftsmanship, (Requifing some degree of carpentry and metal craft) compared to a big sharpened wooden pole? The weapon in their MM depiction is clearly something like a glaive though.--Kydo (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2015 (MST)

I'm thinking of different centaur archetypes and what their proficiencies might be. Early greek centaurs were "rude and savage", almost animal-like. Later centaurs were Dionysiac beings and are more likely to be found carousing than hunting (proficiency in a musical instrument, perhaps). The depiction of a centaur firing a bow seems to come from Sagittarius, who is an archer centaur, but that's just one guy..

My favourite centaurs are from the Shining Force series, they are mostly knights (makes sense, right? They are their own mount!) and use lances and spears. But then, others are ranger-like and used bows or guns. It feels like these proficiencies come from their class rather than their race.

Going back to the AD&D Monster Manual, centaurs are armed with oaken clubs or a long bow, and the leaders are armed with shield and lance (same in 2e). 3e has them armed with longsword and longbow.

I mention all this for reference, I'm not suggesting any changes. The common theme seems to be the Sagittarus longbow, the melee weapon varies a lot. Marasmusine (talk) 02:01, 18 January 2015 (MST)

I did actually incorporate some of that into this, and I'm glad someone's doing as much research as I am! :) There are actually two sources for the myth of the centaur. One myth is about Chiron, who is actually a demigod. His demeanor was very different from the other centaurs. He was kind, wise, and strong of will. Meanwhile, a separate myth (actually a pair of myths which became conflated) describes how a race of barbaric centauri horse-men are birthed into the world. The kinnara are intended to be pure medium; they look and act pretty much identical to the MM description. They have some bestial features akin to their depiction in the MM and in Harry Potter. They may be barbaric, but not necessarily bestial or cruel. Their name comes from an eastern myth about a race if horse men. It seems a wide range of cultures talk about a race of horse-people dwelling in the mountains. The onnocentaur is more close to many peoples image of the centaur; aside from elfish ears, their upper half is fully human. They are more orderly and settled, granting them time to develop organized education. They can be as wise as Chiron, or as depraved as Centaurus. Their name comes from a myth about a half-donkey centaur, which I used because I'd originally imagined them as short, standing eye-to-eye with most humans. I also picturdd them, being more human-like, potentially becoming knights. Various depictions of fully human centaurs show them with swords, so I gave them a sword proficiency to help offset their lack of horns, ranged kicks, or large size, though they still seem a little underwhelming. Finally, the Centabra was imagined as the extreme opposite, deviating more toward chaos, and thus being more likely to be wild and unlawful. Their image comes from later Roman depictions of centaurs having horns, and their name was taken from a horned, half-demon centaur from the game Wrath Unleashed. But if you've got more ideas, by all means, put em up! Also, I'd like a more comprehensive name list. Are any of the Shining Force centaurs named?--Kydo (talk) 06:55, 18 January 2015 (MST)

Also, how does one add rows to a table? I'd like to have separate random height and weight entries for subraces, like what they did with elves.--Kydo (talk) 07:24, 18 January 2015 (MST)

They're mostly named with a medieval briton theme: Arthur, Randolf, Gadfort, Danteres, Dawn. Some are named after goddesses: May (or Mae), Cybel. I'll see what I can do about the table. Marasmusine (talk) 09:30, 18 January 2015 (MST)

It depends on how you describe them, if they are a barbaric race they should have spears and nets as their favored weapons with the bow, and for that they should look more like the Native American's. But if you want to describe them as more like the centaurs from the cursed Chronicles of Narnia, then they can use two handed longswords or dual wield two normal longswords or even a certain type of spear like a guardian. But i think the centaur should be like the Mongols who are a people of horses who use spears, swords, bows, nets and anything they can think of, beside the Mongols are a nomad people which fit the centaur perfectly. Azernath (talk) 20:04, 18 January 2015 (MST)

There's always the option of not giving them racial weapon proficiencies. To me it only seems appropriate if there's a clear, iconic weapon associated with the race - something that all members of the race would have regardless of class (and not weapons they have because of their class, for example Sagittarius is depicted with a longbow because he's an archer, not because he's a centaur). I'm not sure if that's the case here. Marasmusine (talk) 01:31, 19 January 2015 (MST)

So are we good to use this race in the game? Azernath (talk) 19:52, 19 January 2015 (MST)

Mechanically, yeah, pretty much. The large subrace needs playtesting though. I fear its horn attack, with its size, may be a little busted. It is not based on any MM attacks, so it really is an experiment from the ground up. Considering Marasmusine's comment, I was thinking of further splitting it apart. One large subrace, with the full-size body of a horse, and another diminutive subrace with the Roman horned look. Also, anyone wanna help with the history a bit? I've compiled a list of the primary themes from the disparate real-world stories as a placeholder for a general idea of where they come from.--Kydo (talk) 23:45, 19 January 2015 (MST)

Well i will use the Centabra subrace in my next game after little fixing with it, i will be sure to give feedback as soon as i can. Azernath (talk) 09:57, 20 January 2015 (MST)

By the way how do you think i should make the Centaur, what class? what subrace? and what things i should add to it and what things should i do when trying it? An think of a name if you got a good one? Azernath (talk) 18:38, 20 January 2015 (MST)

My suggestion would be to go for the gold. Optimize. Try to make it as tweaked out and broken as possible. See if it can be used to destabilize the game balance in an irrecoverable way. Alternatively, make it a wuss, play against type, overlap proficiencies as much as possible, equip yourself wrong, try to combine incompatible features, and then see if it still kicks ass. Like I've said elsewhere, I'm in the middle of an ongoing campaign as it is, so playing or running homebrews is mostly off the table at the moment. Here's what I know from isolated experiments: Centaur monks of any subrace are more dangerous than wood elf monks. (Also, some of the monk traits border on ridiculous or humorous when you imagine a centaur doing it. It just seems so idiosyncratic.) They are equally terrifying barbarians.--Kydo (talk) 21:40, 28 January 2015 (MST)

PC Mounts

So, I hadn't actually considered this when I made the page, but what exactly happens when the party's gnome monk asks to ride on the back of the centauri barbarian and he actually agrees to it? Is this still balanced, or do you think PCs being able to use each other as a mount in combat is potentially dysfunctional? In the example above, the centaur could go into a rage, drop the smackdown on an enemy, and be carrying someone who may be able to use reactions to defend him, or just finish the enemy off. Also, the halfling now gets that 50ft speed, which is good enough to warrant wearing armor. Even scarier is when the roles are re versed; a level 20 centauri monk can run 80ft up a wall in six seconds, and he could be carrying any one of his equally dangerous allies on his back. Actually, the book states no limits. He could be carrying multiple allies on his back. This is a bigger problem with the centabra subrace; they can carry humans and elves too. I know Mike Mearls ruled that PCs using each other as mounts "sounds fun", (the example given was a gnome riding on a dwarf's shoulders) but in this case, it seems potentially over the top.--Kydo (talk) 00:26, 20 January 2015 (MST)

Damn their laws and damn their lies, Oh sorry wrong sentence from the wrong film. but for real why think of rules and laws if the are not made in the first place. I say leave it as it is, plus PC who ride mount and move with them loss half if not all their speed so it is not that bad. Azernath (talk) 09:57, 20 January 2015 (MST)

Which rules do you think have priority over each other, given the unique situation presented by this race?

• (PHB p.176 under Lifting and Carrying) Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don’t usually have to worry about it. Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet. Size and Strength. Larger creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature’s carrying capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
• (PHB p.181)Mounts and Vehicles. For short spans of time (up to an hour), many animals move much faster than humanoids. A mounted character can ride at a gallop for about an hour, covering twice the usual distance for a fast pace. If fresh mounts are available every 8 to 10 miles, characters can cover larger distances at this pace, but this is very rare except in densely populated areas.
• (PHB p.191 under Moving Around Other Creatures) You can move through a nonhostile creature’s space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature’s space is difficult terrain for you. Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.
• Mounted Combat. A knight charging into battle on a warhorse, a wizard casting spells from the back of a griffon, or a cleric soaring through the sky on a pegasus all enjoy the benefits of speed and mobility that a mount can provide. A willing creature that is at least one size larger than you and that has an appropriate anatomy can serve as a mount, using the following rules. Mounting and Dismounting. Once during your move, you can mount a creature that is within 5 feet of you or dismount. Doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet of movement to mount a horse. Therefore, you can’t mount it if you don’t have 15 feet of movement left or if your speed is 0. If an effect moves your mount against its will while you’re on it, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or fall off the mount, landing prone in a space within 5 feet of it. If you’re knocked prone while mounted, you must make the same saving throw. If your mount is knocked prone, you can use your reaction to dismount it as it falls and land on your feet. Otherwise, you are dismounted and fall prone in a space within 5 feet it. Controlling a Mount. While you're mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently. You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and similar creatures are assumed to have such training. The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves as you direct it, and it has only three action options: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it. An independent mount retains its place in the initiative order. Bearing a rider puts no restrictions on the actions the mount can take, and it moves and acts as it wishes. It might flee from combat, rush to attack and devour a badly injured foe, or otherwise act against your wishes. In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you’re on it, the attacker can target you or the mount.
• (PHB p.155 under Mounts and Vehicles) An animal pulling a carriage, cart, chariot, sled, or wagon can move weight up to five times its base carrying capacity, including the weight of the vehicle. If multiple animals pull the same vehicle, they can add their carrying capacity together.

One resolution could be to rewrite ungainly such that the phrasing has the character treated as "permanently mounted" with caveats for the knocked prone rules. This basically erases the idea of riding a centaur PC as a steed, thus alleviating any conflicts. On the other hand, it isn't very cool. Another option could be to fill the gaps by writing up a PC Mounts houserule.--Kydo (talk) 15:39, 20 January 2015 (MST)

The question is, is the Centaur a horse or a man? I say it is both and non. So we have to deal with each thing differently:

• Carrying Capacity, Push, Drag, or Lift should be the same as normal as any race because the horse is a large creature so he get more all things that follow,

but the Centaur are medium race beside the subrace so they are treated normally except the large sized one where they get double to all.

• what happen to the horse when he reach the 10 mile limit and then get replaced by another? they stay tired and take a rest. What happen when a humanoid creature run to it reach? it take a rest till he get better. So in both cases the Centaur get tired even if we considered him a horse or a man, so i would not suggest getting a Centaur as a Messenger.
• Evading enemies is still possible when medium creatures because the 5 ft base ground is big enough to pass even if the enemy is in the middle of it, but the large creatures can't do it any way unless the enemy is a small size or smaller, the rules apply to all.
• Mounting a Centaur is easy, it take half your speed to mount it and half your speed to dismount it, you can't control centaur for he fight for himself and do what ever it think best because it is an intelligent creature, you're just there trying to attack or do what you think best on top. But if the Centaur get frighten or knocked prone you deal with the same way with the normal horse.
• Some people do actually pull carriages so why can't Centaur do the same, don't be racist dude. ;) Azernath (talk) 18:38, 20 January 2015 (MST)

Ah, but you missed the key issues in each!

• With carrying capacity, you must logically account for the weight of the rider- most riders, plus all their gear, plus the weight of the centaur's gear would easily exceed their encumbrance limit. But steeds are not affected by this. So, what matters more? PC encumbrance or steed mobility functionality? Is being ridden the same as carrying? Is a saddle akin to a backpack?
• The rule on mount travel applies only to mounts themselves- NOT CHARACTERS. So, when being ridden, the centaur arbitrarily uses different rules for overland travel!
• The very last sentence on moving around creatures bluntly states that you cannot willingly end your turn in a space occupied by another creature. What is the centaur? A character or a steed? If he is still a character, any rider must get off his back at the end of their turn because of this rule. If he's a steed, he is essentially part of another character's inventory.

The obvious way around all of this is, of course, to pull a cart. An archer centaur with a cart full of casters sounds rather broken on a mechanical level, but not ludicrous or unbelievable.--Kydo (talk) 23:15, 20 January 2015 (MST)

You see here is the problem, the are not man or horse so the rules are a mix of both of the rules. for example:

• The build of the Centaur do help him with carrying the so called raider same as the horse, beside Medium PC can't ride Medium Centaur that is known so the weight is of a small PC is easy thing for Medium Centaur or you can say it have no weight because the centaur is the same as the horse, and Centaur don;t have to use saddles because of both pride and the raider not needing a saddle to stay on the Centaur Back because the centaur are free to move as they want so they are not allowing them fall easily.
• PC can't stay in the same 5 ft as the mount because it is above it and when they dismount they occupy the nearest 5 ft to the horse, so they are not in the same place but the are above it. And since PC can sit above another PC as long as the Size different is right, so PC can sit above PC last time i checked.
• They can't ride on with no rest so no long travel for them, at lest not as much as as multiple horses, and when pulling a crate they became unable to fight because of the crate.

But after all the talk it is the choose of the game DM to do with them anything he want. Azernath (talk) 01:00, 21 January 2015 (MST)

Would it be okay if you gather together all the special rules that the race has because of its shape and move them to another page? That way if anyone makes a similarly shaped race (a dragon ogre or a drider [maybe?] for example) they just need to link to that page. Marasmusine (talk) 01:44, 21 January 2015 (MST)

how do you suggest that? should we take it to the rules section? Azernath (talk) 02:33, 21 January 2015 (MST)

That's what I'm thinking. Marasmusine (talk) 04:06, 21 January 2015 (MST)

Done. Sort of. Talk:PC Mounts (5e Variant Rule)--Kydo (talk) 12:31, 21 January 2015 (MST)

By the way, I've stumbled across a huge article about PC centaurs in Dragon #103 (pp. 35–46) if you're interested in an AD&D approach. You can find the issue at annarchive. Marasmusine (talk) 09:36, 28 January 2015 (MST)

Well, to be honest, AD&D is the only edition I dislike. I even enjoyed 4e more- it got closer to the wargame derived combat roleplay of OD&D. Still though, I've never been one to turn down insight from the ages!--Kydo (talk) 10:27, 28 January 2015 (MST)

Hm. Interesting how many of my assumptions match up with theirs! Realistically though, two hearts would actually be a liability, as opposed to a benefit, as would a doubled set of lungs. At their size, a large heart and lungs would be more beneficial. Their digestive system is of particular interest to me, as it would be very long, which is unusual. Many ungulates have multiple stomachs though, and I imagine this has the evolutionafy potential for organ specialization, which could possibly lead to omnivorousy, which would be the necessary basis leading toward the full centaur form. I'd also like to elaborate on the impact of alcohol upon them, as it is clearly different from its effect on humans. I hadn't really considered flexibility as something worth discussing, so much as just generally addressing the overall awkwardness of being a six-limbed quadruped. Movies like Narnia and Harry Potter depict them as very stiff and uncomfortable looking, but ancient artworks, especially sculpture, paint a very different story! I also recently watched the centaurs part of Disney's Fantasia and was shocked by how natural their movement seemed; more like a four-legged human than a man-headed horse! And, really, that makes sense. One problem I've been struggling with is their awkward mythical connotations. In D&D, they are viewed as fantastic but natural, but all of the original myths define them as blatantly supernatural, if not outright magical. As for the cultural stuff, I'd really rather leave most of it up to the imagination, allowing any number of wildly differdnt centaur cultures to be viable, focusing only on those things that are truly centauroid traits common to most herds.--Kydo (talk) 21:29, 28 January 2015 (MST)

Balance

My lvl1 Kinnara Barbarian wielding twin hand axes using Adventurers league rules can do the following in the first encounter of the starter set:

• Run 30ft to the first goblin and deal 4d6+4 (+2PRO, +2STR) damage, killing it instantly, run another 30ft (because I chose forests for Wilderness Wanderer, giving me 60ft SPD) to the next goblin and use my bonus action to attack with the second hand axe to deal 4d6+4 DAM again, killing it as well, before any of the goblins act because I won first round init.
• Get hit only once, leaving 8hp, but luckily succeed the DEX save from Trample's drawback.
• Repeat the first round, (Though with different move distances, ond goblin had closed for melee) singlehandedly slaying 4 goblins in under 12 seconds.

The only other character I've managed to solo this encounter with was a Dwarf Rogue- and he only made it by luck, surviving by 1hp. Most characters die in the second or third round. Are you telling me that is not in any way broken? --Kydo (talk) 09:24, 5 February 2015 (MST)

I am changing that trample feature. A chance to fall does not offset the ability to arbitrarily increase your minimum damage. At early levels, this can be used to guarantee a kill on a hit for any monster with hp under 10, simply by choosing the right weapon. Additionally, you can trample an enemy and then "run them over again in reverse" by moving another 30ft in a circle and smacking them a second time! This is mostly only a concern for monks though.--Kydo (talk) 09:42, 5 February 2015 (MST)

There. You can still trample, and you can still use it to one-shot low CR dnemies, but now it's a turn-ending crescendo of an attack, not the primary mode of combat. You can also still do a normal attack and then use trample on your bonus attack if you are 2WF.--Kydo (talk) 10:08, 5 February 2015 (MST)

Also, the hooves of fury feature effectively grants every centaur a blunt greatsword, which requires no hands to wield, and cannot be disarmed without essentially incapacitating the centaur.--Kydo (talk) 10:10, 5 February 2015 (MST)

Is the trample damage based on the MM centaur's Charge feature? I find this damage output to be astonishingly high. Marasmusine (talk) 05:48, 6 February 2015 (MST)

Yes, it was. The real problem is what happens when you combine it with trample. 5d6+PRO+STR? Using Adventurers league rules, that's likely to be a minimum damage of 10 if they optimize STR... It's a maximum damage of 35. I have nothing against a power that lets you oneshot low CR enemies at a rate of one per turn, but if that same power lets you get a probable oneshot on even medium to tough CR enemies? I'm not so cool with that. Perhaps it should be 2d4 instead? That gets confusing with mixed damage dice when you trample, but it lowers the maximum potential damage output. Or we could characterize it as a standing kick, rather than a stomp, so it cannot be combined with trample?--Kydo (talk) 08:46, 6 February 2015 (MST)

Another option could be to have trample just deal the weapon's damage dice twice, rather than act like you're dropping a whole centaur's body on their head.--Kydo (talk) 11:18, 6 February 2015 (MST)

An interesting side-effect of hooves of fury, is that barbarians are especially advantaged by it. You can start with one martial weapon. Choose a greatsword and sell it off for 50gp. Buy a shield. You can now deal greatsword damage using hooves of fury while carrying the +2 AC of a shield. Thanks to barbarian unarmored ac, you never need to worry about paying to get armor that fits either. (Now, whether a shield counts as "armor" or not is up for debate. It is on the armor list, and I assume they meant it to be armor... but shields aren't actually armor, and counting them as such only makes sense as a rules contrivance to maintain mathematical balance.)--Kydo (talk) 11:35, 6 February 2015 (MST)

The 3d6 comes from a Large CR2 monster charging with a lance-like weapon, this doesn't translate to a Medium PC race stepping on someone. The rationale of "falling 30 ft." doesn't translate either (the centaur isn't a large hard flat object accelerating at 10 ms²).

I would either scrap it, or have Trample work like other creatures' Trample: Trampling Charge. If you move at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hit it with a Hoof attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, you can make another attack with your hooves against the target as a bonus action. The DC is 8 + your Strength modifier + your Proficiency bonus.

A Large horse's hooves deal 2d6 damage. If this PC race is remaining Medium sized, the damage should be 1d6. Marasmusine (talk) 01:30, 7 February 2015 (MST)

Did you guys finished testing this race? and if so what are the results? Azernath (talk) 06:05, 7 March 2015 (MST)

I can carry a wand and a shield at the same time and still make decent melee attacks. Technically, the distinction is incredibly subtle; 5e ignores the idea of tracking your drawn and sheathed weapons, instead treating each weapon as another attack you can make at a moment's notice. However, the big deal is that you get a free, weightless, permanently equipped weapon which requires no hands. Not really broken, just... Interesting.Kydo (talk) 09:34, 9 March 2015 (MDT)

Oh, that, and Centaur monks just seem silly. They're as dangerous as any other monk, but imagining them running up walls and across water is just awkward. Kydo (talk) 10:19, 9 March 2015 (MDT)

Just on the subject of drawn/sheathed: You can draw or sheathe a weapon, once, on your turn, as part of your move/action. There are mechanics that interact with this (for example, the dual wielder feat). Marasmusine (talk) 11:34, 9 March 2015 (MDT)

History

Do you think it is god enough now? Azernath (talk) 02:38, 3 April 2015 (MDT)

" Intentional Seclusion." is not a sentence, lol! Fine, I'm back for a bit and have some time, I'll write it. Kydo (talk) 10:13, 1 May 2015 (MDT)

Ok. Truly done. Sorry for the extended wait. Kydo (talk) 14:29, 8 May 2015 (MDT)

A question, though: Should subraces from custom races be separated into the subraces section of character options? Kydo (talk) 14:32, 8 May 2015 (MDT)

Large Size Damage

Since the centaur have a subrace that is large sized, so would their Large-sized weapons have double the damage dice? Azernath (talk) 12:09, 9 May 2015 (MDT)

It wasn't built to work that way. Their hooves of fury damage is increased and their horns attack has no diminuitive form. Being large in size is already a major combat bonus because of the degree of field control it gives a single character. (Of course, if you play without tabletop tactics, that advantage disappears completely.) Also, as far as I know, they abandoned equipment sizes after 3.5e. Kydo (talk) 12:50, 9 May 2015 (MDT)

Well, there is the Large Player Characters (5e Variant Rule) that have few of the changes that large size character have with weapons. Azernath (talk) 13:32, 9 May 2015 (MDT)

And was developed independently of this. Not all homebrewed content will be 100% compatible. I honestly haven't been bothered to read that page yet- it just seems so mundane. Kydo (talk) 16:40, 9 May 2015 (MDT)

The subrace already gain the extra 1d6 to hooves of fury, so I think it can work beside as you said it is a homebrew rule. Azernath (talk) 19:27, 9 May 2015 (MDT)

As far as homebrew and houserule creation goes, I think it is best to build content which can stand on its own and be plugged into any vanilla rules game. It's more likely to be compatible with anything else that way. Sometimes bringing connected content is necessary from a design perspective though. I'd rather avoid it if I can. Kydo (talk) 23:34, 9 May 2015 (MDT)

+1 DEX

It's been removed and re-added a couple of times now. The apparent reason, without any explanation from those opposed thus far, seems to be that when combined with a subrace, this results in a total of +4 to ability scores, which is outside the precedent set by the core material. I'm totally fine with that, as these are basically beast-men, but some people clearly aren't. It may be more appropriate to simply reduce the strength adjustment by 1. --Kydo (talk) 11:43, 6 June 2016 (MDT)

Nerfs

This has changed a lot since the original Kydo/Azernath inception, so it might be simpler to revert it - But even with my limited knowledge of 5e, this race had some abilities that would make a level 1 character immeasurably better than others. I've done changes per the best of my knowledge, but I don't claim perfection. --SgtLion (talk) 09:40, 18 September 2017 (MDT)

I guess you got to this one before I did! I went ahead and changed the race completely, as from the outset the race had some inherent problems. I hope you don't mind, but I think this new version is much more usable than it was before you touched it. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎ . . 22:11, 18 September 2017 (MDT)

Glorious changes, good work! I'm much happier with the state of this. --SgtLion (talk) 01:57, 19 September 2017 (MDT)

Musicus Rating

ConcealedLight (talk) 08:46, 13 January 2018 (MST)