Preacher (Comic Book)/Headscratchers

• Things that just bug me with Starr:
  • Why doesn't he go and gets some cosmetic surgery for his penis-head? Or a latex-cap that looks like his old bald head? Admittedly, the hat works fine, but it still looks ridiculous underneath it and it seems to bother him greatly, so .. why not do something to actually fix it?
  • Same with the Penis-Thing. With the resources of the Grail behind him, it should not be a problem to reconstruct his wang or at least make a prosthesis to let it look less freakish.
  • In his origin story, he asks the Grail-guy if he can get him a woman for some no-strings-attached-sex. Why doesn't he just go to a brothel? It can't be the money, he probably paid more for that dinner-evening than what a hooker would cost. Can't be a question of morals, either, since he frequents hookers and brothels regularly after that.
    • Why do people order in Chinese food when they're working late instead of going out? Starr was busy that day, so he ordered in.
    • Except that he didn't. He did the exact opposite of ordering in.
      • Starr seems to be pretty socially cut off by that point, it's possible he just had no idea where any brothels were.
    • He specified that it should be sordid. A rendezvous in a back alley is more sordid, and therefore more exciting, than a clean and well-regulated brothel. Uh, Or So I Heard.
• When we first see the Allfather, his plane was just trashed because he's to heavy for it and the runway can't handle bigger planes. So why don't they just build a bigger runway? This is the Grail we're talking about, surely they have the money and the manpower to put up some more asphalt. It couldn't possibly be more expensive than buying/repairing new planes every time the fat fuck arrives.
  • The base is built into a mountain, so it's probable that the runway is as long as they could make it, given the limited amount of suitable flat ground.
    • Not to mention Rule of Funny
• Why the hell did Jesse sentence the very likable and pretty much reformed former Nazi spy to death? Yeah, he did bad stuff, but that was 60 years ago. He tried to atone for his sins and he showed sincere remorse for his past actions. Okay, he lived a lie under a false name, but what's he gonna do? Why doesn't he get his second chance? Cassidy got his. Starr's helper-guy (the one who was forced to count sand) got his. Hell, even the child rapist got to live (if with a death-threat). Why did the spy deserve death? That just bugs me to no end.
  • Because the guy wasn't a spy: that was the BS story he fed Jesse initially. When confronted at the end of the arc, he confesses that was actually one of the so-called "police battalions" and that he repeatedly helped gun down civilians and dump them in mass graves, then stole another man's identity to escape to America.
  • Okay, I read it again - been a while. But still, he showed remorse, he wanted redemption and he had a point about his orders, at least from what we know and what Jesse knew. I mean, he was the fucking sheriff - how about dragging this thing to a proper court with a judge? And evidence, preferably. Of course, that would've ruined the "Spy"'s reputation, but somehow I doubt that Jesse cared that much about him. It still bugs me.
    • It was the whole point of the story arc - that Jesse wasn't giving second chances until one was needed by someone close to him. Notice how absolutely torn up he is when Cassidy begs forgiveness; he has no idea what to do at first.
  • Jesse, despite being the hero, is still an asshole. Once you come to the realization, a lot of his actions throughout the entire story start to make sense in context.
• It's always bugged me that in the climax, Jesse beats Cassidy in the fight. Handwaved with Jesse's superior training, but... naah.
  • Pshh, like that's an isolated incident? Jesse is one of the most Boring Invincible Hero characters I've ever seen. In 'Salvation he beats up FOUR other guys simultaneously without getting so much as a bruise or a black eye to show for it. Completely fucking absurd.
    • Jesse's fighting ability is likely an homage to old Westerns, where the hero would inevitably beat the asses of a room full of bad guys and not show any damage from the rare times they actually made contact.
  • ...as pointed out in that exact sequence, Cassidy has always relied on his brute strength over anything approaching skill. Jesse uses his strength and personal skill in a fight, so that's why he had the edge.
    • Well... yeah. I acknowledged the hand-wave in the paragraph you're responding to. I just found it entirely unconvincing.
      • As did this troper. The handwave didn't even make a lot of sense since regardless of how much skill you have, a single punch from someone as strong as Cassidy should still have put Jesse out of a fight, if not killed him outright.
        • In other fights in the series, Cassidy is portrayed as strong, but never as strong enough to kill with one punch. It would probably just be similar to taking a punch from a heavyweight prizefighter. Unpleasant, yes, but not incapacitating to a strong man.
        • Exactly. The problem is you guys over-estimating Cassidy, not Jesse being too strong.
          • Plus Cassidy really didn't want to destroy Jesse.
            • Jesse used the Word to order Cassidy not to hold back. Then again, the exact words he used were "fight like hell", which given the Literal Genie nature of the Word, is possibly open to interpretation. (I hate it when I undermine my own points.)
  • Jesse's opening salvo blinded Cassidy and took out his sense of smell. From there it was mostly Jesse playing keep away from Cassidy's flimsy attacks and striking when he had an opening. It should be noted that despite the severity of the beating that he took Cassidy pretty much no-sold all the damage he incurred, while one punch from him pretty much crippled Jesse to the point that he couldn't stop Cassidy's apparent suicide. So technically, while Jesse would've been considered the "victor" on a "points" basis, Cassidy was the real winner as he was the last man standing.
• When the Saint kills God, God never thinks to simply use the Word to stop him. Or that God was able to give others immunity to the Word, but not the Saint.
  • In regards to God not using the Word to stop the Saint, that's reasonably in character, because without time to prepare, he's shown as being a bit of a dumbass, resorting to brute displays of force or running away whenever things don't go his way. As for God being able to give immunity to the Word, when he protected the L'Angelles he was physically present for a number of events in the house, and since God isn't omniscient or omnipotent when not sitting on the seat of creation, it can be reasonably inferred that instead of granting a passive immunity from the Word, He was in fact physically in the house the entire time, actively protecting the L'Angelles each time Jesse used the Word. This means that God has a limited sphere of influence, or at very least a limited sphere of awareness when not on His throne. Assuming this is the case, He may have either been devoting his attention to Cassidy at the time Jesse used the Word, or simply physically elsewhere and hence unaware that Jesse was using the Word at all.
  • God didn't give Gran'ma and her men immunity from the word - Jesse's post-traumatic stress resulting from his childhood did. God knew this, and set up the situation accordingly. Once Jesse got over his fear, however, the whole plan went to hell in a handbasket. It's the same M.O. and result as the trap God sets for Jesse in Vol. Seven - God manipulates events to give Jesse the Western-movie life he's always wanted, on the condition that he abandon his quest, but his love for Tulip proves to be said plan's undoing.
    • In addition to the above troper's entry, God had actually left heaven by the time the Saint was woken up and sent after Jesse, so the Saint technically isn't under God's personal direction. And since God has shown a willingness to spare Jesse (and others) who pose a threat to him on the off chance he'll be able to convince them to come back to him, it's entirely possible he just didn't want Jesse deader than dead yet. That, or God didn't interfere because he has nothing to do with the Saint being after Jesse.
      • So God does not possess the Word, only Genesis does? EDIT: I just saw he was an idiot. Still doesn't make sense. Or why God left the throne to begin with, if it made the guy omnipotent.
        • God is frightened of a direct confrontation with Genesis, and his whole goal in creating it was to convince something with as much power as he had to love him. It's much easier to persuade, influence, and lead someone on when they don't know exactly where you are.
        • God is supposed to have the Word? I thought it was a side-effect from Genesis, who is supposed to be more powerful then God.
        • Whether he has the word or not, The Saint already made it clear that he could kill before someone could speak, thus rendering the word quiet useless against him.
• It bugs me that the Saint of Killers' guns were lethal to God, but not Cassidy who he shot near the beginning of the series in a bar. Yeah, Cassidy is technically undead, but he can be 'killed' by sunlight so you'd think the guns which always inflict a lethal wound would be able to do that too.
  • An angel is shot in the brain and still lives enough for a few words, so it's not insta-death for everyone. More, those are the weapons of the Angel of Death, retooled. Maybe being already dead nerfs their effect.
  • Ennis himself has mentioned that he would have changed that scene, if writing the book again. The undead excuse is a pretty weak handwave.
  • That bugged me, too. The undead excuse worked fine, actually, until the Saint's backstory was fleshed out more. It was perfectly believable that his guns, while certainly having supernatural powers, were still just guns and couldn't kill a vampire, until we see the Saint kill Satan himself with those same guns. To say nothing of killing God....
  • The issue ultimately comes down to Garth Ennis' real life dislike of God and religion. God, according to Judeo/Christian teachings, is simply too powerful a being to be defeated in any context. He can literally Hand Wave all of the universe out of existence if he so chooses to. In order to make him someone who could be defeated, Ennis had to add ridiculous limitations on his powers plus psychological hang-ups in order to have the Saint kill him. I suppose it's a nice catharsis to anyone who's ever been ticked off at the Almighty, but it's a completely ridiculous cop-out no matter how you slice it.
    • The above is only true if you assume God in Preacher (Comic Book) is exactly the same as the God in Christian tradition. However, it's made clear pretty early on that God in this comic is not totally omnipotent, but he likes to pretend he is in order to convince his followers. Remember, the series begins with the birth of a being that God is afraid of, which shouldn't be possible if God is omnipotent. The whole point of God in this series is that he has fooled people into thinking he is all-powerful/all-knowing/all-benevolent, because it satisifies him in some way. So there's no "ridiculous limitations" or "a completely ridiculous cop-out", it's all part of the premise of Preacher.
• Starr again; he's supposed to be a kick-ass super-smart bad guy...yet he's getting overwhelmed and oversmarted by idiots. Is he -letting- this happen to himself?
• That guy sentenced to count sand. Nobody looked for him? Nobody found him accidentally? And the phrasing was really off. Just look at the entire beach and say 'One two, skip a few, two million'.
  • Nobody in the book manages to escape doing what the Word of God commands through a loophole in the logic. Once Jesse's text goes red, they just do what he says without too much in the way of attempts at interpretation (i.e. Jody's posse doesn't escape Jesse's command to "BURN!" by instantly entering the throes of passion). Through context, Hoover is unable to evade the command by looking for a loophole.
• Fridge Logic: Cassidy's a vampire, so he can survive a shot from the Saint of Killers in issue #3 because he was Dead to Begin With. Heavenly Angels and frickin' GOD himself? Not as powerful, apparently.
  • Garth Ennis admitted that at the time that was written, he hadn't fully worked out the Saint's powers yet and would have gone back and changed it if he could have.
    • It does make sense, in a reverse-Revive Kills Zombie sort of way.
• Why did God create the Saint of Killers? Surely He doesn't need any help murdering people, He's good enough at it as it is.
  • Because he likes to have people to order around, obviously.
  • Also because he wants some distance from that sort of thing - he goes to great lengths to maintain the illusion that he's a "Loving" God.
  • According to Wikipedia it was the Angel of Death that created him, not God. He was returned to Earth to collect the souls of those who died by violence because his hatred was enough to freeze Hell, which was probably causing problems. Why he felt the need to melt down Michael's sword into a pair of guns that would kill anything, never miss their target, never leave the Saint's possession, and never run out of bullets is anyone's guess, but I guess foresight and common sense are things Death lacks.
  • That just made Death the actual creator, but the mastermind behind his creation (as hinted at in the Saint's mini and confirmed in the New Orleans arc) was God Himself, who sent the storm that arranged the key players and set the events in motion. And as established in the New Orleans arc, God wanted a Saint of Killers to replace the weary Death, to do away with the Devil, and to have an "enforcer" of sorts not unlike a force of nature to embody His wrath (no doubt to cow the masses [particularly killers] into loving Him). He also probably wanted to personally screw the Saint, who as a human dared claim that goodness can happen in spite of God.
  • The ending of the series proves God is vulnerable when not sitting at his seat of power. So maybe he didn't want to risk leaving the seat to personally kill people, so he decided to create his personal assassin who he can send in his stead?
• Here's an issue I don't think I've ever seen addressed in any discussion of this comic. At the end of the story, Both God and Satan are dead, along with most or all of the Heavenly Choirs of Angels. Even if we're to accept Ennis' very curious conclusion from Jesse's lips that the universe outgrew the need for God, we're still left with a universe that literally has no one in charge. We get a "happy ending" with Jesse and Tulip riding off into the sunset together, Cassidy returned to human form, the Grail defeated and the Saint of Killers asleep on God's throne. So now what? What happens to people when they die? Is the Saint the "new" God? That seems unlikely, since his final image seems to suggest all he wanted to do his whole existence was just rest.. Without God subtly affecting the universe, is there no more good or evil in the world? I mean seriously, the ending of the story raised more questions for me than it answered.
  • I'd compare it to the ending of Matrix Revolutions.
  • To an atheist like Ennis, "a universe that literally has no one in charge" is exactly what we have already, and it seems to get along just fine (at the level of physical phenomena. Human nature is an entirely different argument). The conclusion of Preacher puts that universe into the same condition, and it's clear that Ennis considers it better that way. (Given the nature of the God he depicts, it's hard to argue with him on that point.)
  • But that clearly wouldn't hold up in a universe that actually WAS created by a God.
  • There's an argument to be made that Ennis's later work Chronicles of Wormwood depicts a version of the sort of heaven and hell that would evolve in the Preacher universe following the deaths of God and the devil: angels and demons simply get back to work as per their original purpose without really worrying about the power vacuum at the top.
• I got a question, or rather a few questions based on a single premise. It's about the Preacherverse's Jesus. Was he actually the son of God in this? What happened to him after he died? Do we just take the word of the Grail as gospel, or is there room to say they are just full of shit? Also, if he was the son of God, how did a simple cart kill him?
  • Based on what happens in the series, he probably wasn't the son of God. We never see him, and God or the angels never mention him, which would be unlikely if he was part of the triumvirate that rules Heaven. Also, God in this series turns out to be not like Jesus said he is; he's closer to the more vengeful and prone-to-anger Old Testament God. So it seems likely Jesus was either some guy God manipulated, because he wanted to create a "softer" image for himself, or just some regular cult leader who had nothing to do with God.