Black Butler (manga)/Headscratchers

Sex Scene Ickiness

• The sex scene with Beast. He's doing it with her to get information on her father figure. And is doing the deed with her WHILE having a nice little conversation about her father figure. Wait, what?
  • Don't forget that Beast also is in (unrequited) love with her elder/eldest brother figure. So it's probably par for the course for Beast...

Sebastian and Vincent, Lookalikes

• Why doesn't anyone notice that Ciel Phantomhive's butler looks a lot like the late Earl Phantomhive (Ciel's dad)?
  • Either Ciel or Sebastian actually did this on purpose; his looks were formed from his father, and he was named after his beloved dog. Both had died.
    • I think what the OP meant was why don't any of the characters notice that he looks like Vincent (instead of the fandom, since most of them have noticed by now), which is actually a good question, since it has indeed already been mentioned that Ciel chose to have Sebastian look like Vincent.
  • The only answer I can come up with is that the characters in the show/manga are somehow aware of the trope Identical Stranger and decide to go with it. Though even then it doesn't make all that much sense.
  • One of the more sensible explanations this troper has seen is that since the resemblance is so close, people who do notice it might think that Sebastian is an illegitimate child of Vincent's, and that either Vincent or Ciel took him up as a servant as a way of providing him with a living. Any in-universe character who comes to this conclusion is probably also sensible enough to know it's not the sort of topic you bring up for discussion.
  • Take into account that so far as most characters know, Sebastian is just a regular young man. They look at him and figure he's probably in his early-mid twenties, and assume that if he did have any kids, they'd be younger than Ciel,so they know he's not secretly Ciel's dad coming back in an obvious disguise or something. Also:
  • Every adult who meets Ciel thinks (at least at first) that he's just a sweet kid who's way in over his head, and he sometimes acts innocent/childish to mislead people. They probably just assume that Ciel just came across this guy who looked just like his daddy and begged Sebastian to work for him because he missed his parents and wanted someone to fill their place in his heart. And they may not be entirely wrong in thinking that.
  • Actually this troper remembers that Madam Red loved Vincent and she was groping Sebastian's butt in her appearance chapter. She must have noticed. This troper also fixed spelling mistakes.
  • Well, I certainly didn't notice. For anime characters, they're really not that similar.
    • IIRC the reason they don't look that similar in the anime version is because Sebastian is still based more on Yana's older drawings in the anime, whereas Vincent was introduced later on in the series so of course they based him on her updated design. However in the manga, at least IMO, they have the same face shape and everything. Only their hair's different, and Vincent has a mole. Plus somewhere it's been mentioned that Ciel wanted Sebastian to take the shape of his father, so.
      • Nope. That's non-canon. I don't believe that fan theory has ever been endorsed by the manga author. It's more a case of Epileptic Trees than anything. Also, their eye-shapes, mouth shapes, and hair are still really different. (I read the manga and watch the anime) I really don't see why people are so insistent they look the same. They're drawn in the same style by the same author as attractive men, of COURSE they look similar.
        • This troper isn't the most observant person in the world, and maybe I missed something, but I don't remember Ciel saying anything about modeling Sebastian's appearance after Vincent anywhere in the Manga.
  • It's possible that Sebastian just appeared in a form that he thought would be handsome and/or respectable to Ciel, and any young boy's standard for "respectable, good-looking older man" is usually based on his father. He wouldn't want to look identical to him, just have the same sort of attributes that make Lord Phantomhive handsome.

Mey-Rin's Name

• What is a European redhead housemaid doing with a name like Mey-Rin?

A Bear from Nowhere

• In the manga, Ciel and Elizabeth's mother are having a nice little hunting party when suddenly a BEAR jumps out! Now, did the author just forget or did she actually think bears ran around the outskirts of London?
  • It's mentioned that Ceil does not live close to London. So it's not that unusual.
    • "Not that unusual"? We do not have freaking BEARS in Britain!
      • Maybe it escaped from a zoo or something?
      • Given that the Phantomhives/Middlefords are indisputably of the Badass Family type, maybe they just decided to have bears lurking around the estate . . . not as pets, but to keep the kids from growing too complacent in a safe environment. Or as an awesome security system.
      • In those times, bear-baiting was a popular event for nobles. Maybe one escaped from a bear-baiting party?

Did They Just Forget About Her?

• Madam Red dies and then it's almost as if they forget her. Technically, Ciel in Season 2 really does, but the manga is basically the same. Wouldn't Ciel show at least some more remorse or hatred towards Grell? In fact, the only one who is a big reminder that she actually existed as a character is Grell, who wears her coat almost as a token.
  • Odd that you bring up the coat, because that's something that really bugged me until I rewatched the third episode of Kuro II. Ciel doesn't have any memories at this point. When they head to London, he mentions not wanting to run into Madam Red, and Sebastian replies, rather morbidly in hindsight, that that won't be an issue. When they meet Grell later, Ciel specifically reacts to the color of Grell's coat. "That red..." He obviously doesn't recognize Grell as Anonymous-Bespectacled-Butler, but he recognizes the color of the coat. He may not make the connection that it is, in fact, the exact same coat, but he recognizes it.
  • After Madam Red dies in the manga, Elizabeth and her mother come to visit Ciel, and Lizzie mentions that she's happy to see Ciel enthusiastic about his competition with Elizabeth's mother. She specifically says that Ciel was very close to Madam Red, and she wasn't sure how he'd manage after her death. This being Ciel, of course the answer is "stoic".
  • No. The manga is not the same. The animation takes it own course pretty much after Jack the Ripper and Grell has several appearances (and has his character derailed) but manga wise, we haven't seen him since Jack the Ripper. William has shown up more than him. As for no angst, Ciel has suffered through worse shit than losing a family member at this point. Plus he has to keep up appearances. He doesn't want to be considered a child, so if the public saw the great head of the Phantomhive household (male no less) angsting and moaning and whining about his Aunt's death...well respect for him would severely decline. Both in the manga and in the fandom.
  • This troper would like to point out that Grell comes back in the newest arc [dont know the name of it] along with Ronald.
  • In the manga Ciel flashes back to Madame Red taking care of him when he's ill during the Circus Arc. Not so forgotten...

Surprise Power from Nowhere

• Am I the only one who find the household staff being uber-Badass something of an Ass Pull or at the very best, Cerebus Retcon? Especially annoying is Maylene. If she is a Cold Sniper on crack, why does she keep breaking all the dishes? Why acting so idiotic? What's the point? Obfuscating Stupidity does not explain it because everyone already knows that anyway. Seriously, if all they were good for was to guard the house, why do they even bother being a housework staff that they are so incompetent at being at?
  • Ciel keeps them because they are a permanent annoyance to Sebastian.
    • Oh, my god.
  • Rather than an Ass Pull, I believe this is more of a Fridge Logic sort. Sebastian is capable to do much better work than all of them combined, and Ciel wouldn't keep them around if they aren't useful.
  • It could be that they acting like their real selves instead of being Obfuscating Stupidity. They had lived hard lives up to the point before they met Ciel.
  • They might also be trying to brighten up Ciel's life by being funny and entertaining. Seems like something they might do.
  • They were brought almost solely for the purpose of being guards. But when they're not doing that job, they need something to do, so he assigned them tasks. They just happen to be bad at them. (Except when Agni is instructing them) As for Maylene, she strikes me as the type that is TOO relaxed when not under pressure, (or rather, when not working in her field of choice, killing) and that makes her seem clumsy.
  • I'm pretty sure it's said that Maylene needs a new prescription for her glasses but she doesn't want to replace the ones she has because they were a gift, so that could be why she specifically has a hard time breaking dishes and the like. It's also incredibly likely that Maylene, Bard, and Finny just haven't had time to learn how to do such simple tasks after the lives they've led -- they didn't know who Elizabeth was when she visited in ch. 2 of the manga, so they couldn't have been around long.
  • No. An Ass Pull badass is Elizabeth. Hiding it because "I didn't want him to not think I'm cute is an ass pull of the highest caliber.
    • Not really if you think of the time period. Elizabeth's belief stems from growing up in a time when girls were meant to be quiet and submissive and never fight or even speak very loudly, and essentially just sit there and look pretty. While it may seem strange to people in modern times, it does make some sense that she'd feel this way, and hide her badass side accordingly, when you take that into account.
    • No. No it doesn't. Hiding it for one of the dumbest reasons in manga history because she didn't want him to think she wasn't cute doesn't stem from a belief system. It stems from the writers of this manga being total hacks. The fact that she could have been a useful character in the previous 50 or so chapters and she just suddenly becomes a sword swinging badass all of a sudden is a grade A, 100 % Ass Pull.
    • How so? To be honest, we don't know much about Lizzie, considering that she shows fairly infrequently in the manga, the Titanic Arc is probably the first time since the Beginning Arc that Lizzie had a significant role. We already know that she isn't what she appears considering her conversation with Sebastian after the bear attack (although she isn't free some the impulsiveness and brattiness that comes with being a child. Plus, it was the only one of two times we, as the readers, see her in mortal danger. She can't exactly take down a bear that's easily x8 her weight and it was sudden. Her hidden badass does go along with KSJ's theme that not everyone is what they appeared. Although I understand with some of the criticism that it wrecks Lizze's role of being a "normal" character. But it is not an Asspull if it doesn't go against her character so far. Lizzie's hatred of her hidden badass side isn't entirely shallow. Remember that Frances will only get out of Ciel's hair if he can protect Lizzie properly and Lizzie feels like being a typical girl makes it easier for Ciel to try to protect her even if she doesn't need it. And she might liked that feeling also. Plus, Lizzie wants to be that girl as well so I can understand her view. Maybe hesitating while zombies are murdering up the place wasn't exactly the perfect place to have some sort of existential crisis but it's not like she comes across zombies everyday and actually looked quite shaken until her reveal. Poor girl just can't win with this fandom.
    • "Useful in the last fifty chapters"? You really think that Ciel would drag her along with him and Sebastian during all of their missions? "Hey Lizzie, my demon butler is about to burn down a manor full of children and the three goons we just brutally slaughtered with his hand. Why not join in on the fun and help us out a bit with your fancy sword skills?". Sure, that will totally happen. Never mind that Ciel doesn't rely on anyone but Sebastian, and he loves (or at least likes) Lizzie enough to keep her safe. No one is supposed to know that his Battle Butler is also a demon and that Ciel does some pretty awful things behind closed doors. And like the above Troper said, we never really knew a lot about Lizzie and she was only used as a Plucky Comic Relief character until then, much like the Phantomhive staff themselves. Not liking a character doesn't mean that any awesome thing they do is simply an attempt to make them seem awesome. Most fans definitely agreed that this was planned given the author's style at 'surprise'/BewareTheNiceOnes characters, and it was quite obvious there was something more to her during the chapter in which her mother was introduced.
    • Word of God says she planned it from the start on her blog.
    • Justify it all you like, it will forever be both an Ass Pull, and the reason the manga has been dropped by certain people.(Meaning me.)
    • How could you not expect it? Look at Lizzie's mother, Frances. She met her husband when she beat him in fencing! Yes, a woman should be quiet and dainty and whatnot during the late 18th century, but we already knew that Frances was badass! What made you assume that she wouldn't make Lizzie fence as well? And pretty much Lizzie's entire family are known to be good with swordplay, so why do you assume that Lizzie would be left out? Because she's a girl?
    • Oh, alright, so her mom knowing how to fence means she can just suddenly become a dual sword wielding badass? Yeah that makes total sense. Hey, Ceil practices fencing sometimes. I guess that means at anytime he can suddenly become an expert sword fighter too.
    • If you remember, Frances doesn't have custody over Ciel. And she doesn't have the time to visit often, does she? Unlike Elizabeth, who lives with her 24/7 ever since she was born. Don't you think that she'd be trained more often than Ciel because of that? So yes, I think that Elizabeth would have plenty of time to turn into a dual wielding badass, even if it hasn't been shown on-panel until now.
    • And we come back to the crux of the matter. What was freaking point of hiding it? They could have shown the readers at least, had her whip some massive ass, but keep it a secret from Ciel and not the reader. But no, they yank it our of their ass in the cheesiest way possible. Ass Pull. 100%, I'm done arguing this with you people, have a good one.
    • And that, fellow Tropers, is the Fan Dumb of Yaoi Fangirl at its fullest. Move along, there's nothing to see here except for an idiot fangirl.
    • I'm not a Yaoi Fangirl. I'm not even a girl. I'm a guy who just hates Elizabeth.
    • Fine, exclude the Yaoi Fangirl and we still got the Fan Dumb of character bashing. Really, it makes sense, especially considering what our fellow Tropers have pointed with the above. And to make this not become a Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment, I'll say my Headscratchers for this: What bugs me is how in the world Ciel, being Elizabeth's fiance, doesn't know his fiancee is a rapier-wielding Badass. She has entered tournaments before. Tournaments most likely held by the Queen herself (seeing there's Earl Grey there) and (maybe) posted in newspaper. And this become more like a Fridge Logic than a Headscratchers.
    • I don't think it'd be good to be stereotyping everyone who hates Lizzy as a Yaoi Fangirl, and we shouldn't bring who exactly this person is to begin with. The troper's identity is irrelevant. What matters is his opinion. And I'll try to justify why Ciel didn't know about Elizabeth being a Dual-Wielding Badass. As we all know, Ciel has a very busy life. He's either managing his company, studying/practicing the violin, or out solving cases for the Queen. I don't think he has the time to look through the daily newspaper and read about Elizabeth. And he's not one for social gatherings, unless he's hosting it or he's snooping around for evidence for the Queen's sake. And everyone else would probably assume that he'd know about Lizzy's... talents, so they didn't bother to tell him.
    • This is my first edit on the Black Butler page so I'm not one of the people who talked previously, but I... kind of agree. I was awfully disappointed when the truth about Elizabeth was revealed. Not because I have something against her backstory or reasons or whatever in particular, but--I'm just so tired of having every single character be secretly Badass. I mean, come on. First the hired help, then the cutesy girlfriend, then the Undertaker... not to mention the extras. I'm not going to stop reading or anything because of it, but it is a little tiring to not have any just... normal people, if that makes sense. If only as a basis of comparison to make the mains seem more competent! ...Just my own experience with it; I'm sure some/a lot of people enjoyed seeing everybody being generally awesome, haha.
    • Okay, I can understand that. The fact that practically everyone is a badass now does ruin the fact that they're supposed to be normal. But then again, World of Badass. I suppose our lovely author is trying to slowly shape the Kuroshitsuji world into a World of Badass. But Lizzy being a Dual-Wielding Badass does make sense. And even Undertaker did always seemed to be a bit... unusual, dont you think? I like the rouge Shinigami thing better than what they did with the anime. And the fact that there's no eyeglasses, a nice touch. I didn't like how Meyrin, Baldroy and Finny became badass though, I can give you that for being an Ass Pull.
    • I don't how something can be an Ass Pull if it's completely relevant to the plot and makes sense. Lizzy being a badass? Plenty of reason given above as to why this isn't a shock. The staff? Pretty dang obvious why he kept them around. Ciel would never in a million years keep useless servants around. It seems to me what you guys are calling ass pulls is just things that you personally don't like. Do you have a right to not like them? Totally. However, when you consider that most of Ciel's life revolves around dangerous activities and purposely associating with people involved in dangerous activities, why does it surprise you that the people around him have the ability to cope with dangerous activities? I mean, for goodness sakes, Lizzy is marrying Ciel. How is it at all possible that she wouldn't know what her husband did for a living? Hiding a talent is one thing. Hiding what 99% of Ciel's life revolves around is just impossible. Of course she needs to learn to defend herself, especially after what happened to the previous heads of house. Storywise, if you don't like it, that's fine. However, saying it came out of no where when the author takes great pains to show why it DIDN'T come out of no where is just silly.

Why Didn't Anyone Just Leave?

• Okay, seriously. In the recent murder mystery arc, why was no one smart enough to leave the mansion? Sure, it was raining heavily, but just how the hell is that any comparison to the dangers of staying in a mansion that a murderer is lurking in?
  • You have to remember that they were basically stranded at the house. With that ride, the roads are extremely muddy and that makes it very impossible to navigate to.
    • But couldn't they have walked somewhere safer? I mean Ciel's mansion can't really be that far from a town, can it?
    • A mansion built in that time period? Eh, it probably was pretty far from town. Or maybe just too far for most of the fancypants nobles to walk. Besides, it's all stormy and dark and scary outside, and they're pretty sure someone amongst them is a murderer. AND maybe the killer's got some buddies on the outside, waiting for as backup.
    • One man tried to leave. Ciel didn't let him.

On Anachronisms

• In the manga there is electricity, cell phones (though rather bulky), video games, and television. This is all fixed in the anime but it just bothers me when things like that show up in the anime.
  • The "television" is never explicitly called such; it's only stated that it's a box with moving people inside. It could be early motion picture technology like a kintescope,which involved peering through a small lens to watch a film inside a small box. The technology actually fits into the manga's timeline.
  • Also the Italian mafia are wearing pretty modern clothes.
    • What are the Italian mafia even doing in Victorian England?
  • You have to admit, for the first few chapters and even sometimes in the curry competition arc, Kuroshitsuji did seem like somewhat of a parody manga, usually parodying Shounen manga clichés. e.g. in the first chapter, when Sebastian fought against a martial artist calling out stupid-sounding moves; not to mention the fact that Sebastian is "perfect" and uses knives as weapons. And having a flamboyant gay/maybe transsexual death god. All of those (at least at the beginning) seemed a bit overdone and funny. As the series went on and it actually got a serious plot, you'll notice there aren't as many "mistakes" such as the mobile phone or television.
  • Actually, some parts of the manga are so historically accurate it's impressive (plants on the fireplace, architecture, certain jibes about the time of tea in comparison to social classes) and then they throw a phone and a chainsaw and a TV in for laughs.

Why Didn't Sebastian Notice?

• In chapter 3, why doesn't Sebastian notice when the mafia guys sneak in through the window and kidnap Ciel? Exactly how good is his hearing, anyway?
  • That's a simple excuse for Rule of Cool. If he had stopped them there, he wouldn't have had an excuse to go on an awesome rescue mission.
  • I wouldn't put it past Sebastian to do it just so Ciel would get hurt. He's almost had him injected with snake venom in the manga and has expressed a desire to have others teach him a lesson more than once. Sebastian might be affably evil, but he's still evil.

Sebastian's Violin-Playing

• In the Manga in chapter 2; Sebastian's bow hold is incredibly unstable! there is no way he'd be able to play with that incorrect bow hold and sound good. I'm a violinist so the whole position of the instrument looks off to me, I've tried playing positioned like that and it's just painful.
  • Well ... he is one hell of a butler
  • But he can get heart burn, so it seems he can't defy EVERY law of the universe.

Everyone Hating Elizabeth?

• Am I the only fan who doesn't outright hate Elizabeth? Am I the only person who remembers what THEY were like when they were 12/13? Am I the only one who remembers that unlike Ciel, Elizabeth actually is a normal person? Hell, even her admitted lack of character depth has logical basis: since when do we even see Ciel go to her house? Does Ciel even know what she does all day when she's not hanging all over him?
  • This troper is relieved that she is not the only one! Of course, the best reason for her existence is to provide Ciel with a love-interest so he can't canonly be paired with anyone else. But hey, try telling that to fangirls. Maybe that's why she gets so much hate in the first place. But I see nothing wrong wrong with her character.
  • Wait, I thought Elizabeth was like 8 or 10 or something ...
  • Well, considering that in her first appearance, she acts as a general nuisance, and shatters Ciel's family ring on the floor, your probably in the minority there.
    • I think that bit is supposed to be forgotten, in part because of the sheer absurdity of that to anybody who knows their lapidary work. The most likely explanation for her being able to shatter it is that the original stone, at some point, was lost (perhaps quietly sold) and a paste gem put into the setting.^[1] The only thing really in its favor is that it would explain why Sebastian could repair the ring so quickly: he likely keeps a stock of paste gems, for speedy repair since, among the various problems with paste gems, they are not as durable as actual stone. The only real problem with this theory is that, well, Ciel would have known. Unless is trouble dressing himself during the Circus arc is actually more due to his hands having been damaged...
    • Lizzie broke a single ring, felt sorry afterwards and is hated by the fandom. Ciel ordered Sebastian to kill dozens of people, never felt sorry and the fandom still love him. Well...
      • Well, personally, I don't like her because without Ciel she doesn't have much personality, but YMMV
      • Why not hate Elizabeth? That voice, her imposing, she acts like an infant & uses tears to manipulate people, she's so disgustingly girly & spineless.
        • Imposing + Acting like an infant + manipulating people + spineless? Same with Ciel. Actually, same with every single character in Kuro on some level. I'm with you on the voice, but she doesn't really "use tears to manipulate people", at all. Look, I'm not saying you can't hate a character, but I find your hatred kind of null considering you hate her for the traits that she shares with many, many other characters in the Kuro verse.
      • She humanizes Ciel immensely; Sebastian/Ciel shippers usually fail to take into account the fact that Sebastian is essentially trying to corrupt Ciel into a revenge-bent child-monster, and YMMV but he seemed amused or even pleased when Ciel kills the children and burns down the mansion in the circus arc. Lizzy, on the other hand, actually elicits protective feelings and normalcy from Ciel; she wants to make him happy and smile, while Sebastian delights in his misery. Not that this troper doesn't ship Sebas/Ciel, one just has to acknowledge that Sebastian will only elicit revenge and determination from Ciel whereas Lizzy could offer him genuine happiness. This troper's just a sadist who likes her broken characters to remain broken...
  • Personally, I dislike her because she is a "normal" person. I enjoy Kuroshitsuji precisely because of the kind of quirky, ambiguously villainous characters who make up most of the cast, and I'd venture to say that's common among fans. I'd like Lizzie more if she were a bit ruthless or had some kind of unusual ability/disability, anything to give some flavor to what is otherwise a cotton-candy character. If, say, she were a skilled manipulator who could play all the Victorian social games - but her lack of ability to read Ciel says that's clearly not the case. She just lacks anything to recommend her as Ciel's partner.
    • Also, I do remember what I was like at ten, and it wasn't anything like that. I would dislike Lizzie even more if I had had to go to school with her at that age.
    • And now it turns out she's actually a Deliberately Cute Child who acts the way she does to suppress her Little Miss Badass side. Didn't see that coming.
      • Original poster here. I did. Mwahahaha!
  • This troper actually likes Elizabeth and is glad someone else agrees. Even from the beginning it was apparent that there was more to her than meets the eye and she wasn't as stupid as she let anything think. Or at least that's what I picked up. And also, she provides a good amount of depth and characterization for Ciel. Think about it, anyone can be a cold-hearted, murdering, Chess Master who doesn't give a crap but Lizzie shows that in Ciel there is also an actually, caring, protective, human side of him we usually don't get to see. And as another troper above me said, she is a contrast to Sebastian.
  • Answer to the original poster: When she's not hanging around Ciel? She's practicing her fencing and going into tournaments. And I don't think Ciel has the time to visit Lizzie, really. Considering all the work he does? It's not like he hates her company or anything, if he did, why would he remain her fiancee?
    • He was forced into being engaged to her, he does say so himself. And with her having the family she does, he would be flayed alive if he tried to break it off.

Madam Red's Specialty

• Madam Red was not the only doctor in her hospital. Why did they let a woman who had lost her unborn baby and her ability to carry children perform abortions? That's cruel, even if you are pro-choice!
  • The key word there is "let". If Madam Red chose to preform a particular sort of surgery for which she was trained, they don't really have any reason to stop her (at least by Victorian Era co-ed doctor sensibilities). They may not even have known about her past, if she was sent to a different hospital and/or didn't work there until after her husband had already died.

Grell's Pronouns

• Grell is a Transsexualism.. But I've never heard anyone call her by female pronouns in the fandom. What gives?
  • It's not confirmed either way whether Grell is transsexual or just flamboyantly gay. Most people see him/her as male.
    • In the character guide, Grell states she wants a sex change. There's even a question about her usage of female speech. While This Troper is fine with people picking their pronouns (I'm not a fan of forcing my opinion down others' throats), there is some kind of confirmation.
  • Probably because it's treated as a joke in the series. Which is either historically accurate or downright offensive, depending on your opinion.
  • This troper knows of several people who do call her "her", and we accept that the majority of fandom sees her as male and they will use the respective pronouns. Means we have to explain why we use female pronouns wherever we go. It's a pity, but it is how it is at the moment.
  • Another troper here who agrees, but since many people have not seen the scans listed above where it's pretty much confirmed that Grell is trans, they think of Grell as being more like the "gay male who's effeminate" stereotype instead of just being feminine because she's female. Many don't want to bother changing their tune even when presented with it, either.
  • There's really no indication In-Universe that he wants to be a woman; he comes off as a flamboyant stereotype. As for not calling him by female pronouns, he's pre-op if that character guide is to be taken as canon, and thus still technically male. This is Kuroshitsuji, not Family Compo, so transsexualism doesn't come up because it's not pertinent to the story. Calling him by female pronouns would just confuse the majority of fans, and since he is fictional, there's really no reason to worry about offending him. It doesn't offend Real Life transexuals either according to what has been stated below, so there's really no problem.
    • With respect, it doesn't offend some Real Life transsexuals. It offended this real life transsexual to the point that someone accused me of being a psychopath, so different strokes.

Sebastian Changing Gloves with People Watching

• In chapter 55, Sebastian changes his gloves after killing the zombies. He didn't seem to have turned around... Lizzie and Snake were both watching. Does this not bother anyone?
  • Are you referring to Sebastian's contract mark being visible? They probably thought it was some kind of tattoo.
    • ...A tattoo of a symbol of satanism. I'd think that it would attract a bit of attention.
      • Please do some research on pentagrams BEFORE saying rubbish.
      • It's not really "rubbish" considering tattoos, let alone tattoos of pentagrams (which many people still misunderstand as a Satanic symbol etc.), were tabbooo back then. Especially ones with unfamiliar text and strange symbols. But hey, none of the cast seems to wonder why Sebastian has glowing red eyes with Hellish Pupils. Or how he can kill people with butter knives. Or where the hell he even came from, for that matter...so I doubt they'd care about a tattoo.

Ciel and the Chocolate Head

• In chapter 5, how could Ciel steal the head of a chocolate statue? Wasn't it a bit high for him? Why didn't he take something easier instead?
  • Because Shut Up.

Why aren't people more curious about what happened to Ciel?

• Doesn't anybody wonder where the hell Sebastian is from, or what happened to Ciel? I mean, both Elizabeth and Madame Red have mentioned that he just showed up one day with a 'pitch black butler'...cool, nothing alarming about that, right? Never mind that the Phantomhive manor was mysteriously burned down or that Ciel has been missing for a month and came back covered in bruises with bandages around his eye. Never mind how empty he seemed when he returned. I get that they were happy to have him back, but come on.
  • Not that you don't have a point, but I wager they were just so happy he was alive that they didn't care that he seemed off. You know, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" and all that jazz.
  • Not to mention, questioning traumatized children when they don't want to talk is a recipe for disaster. The idea of 'If you talk about it, you'll get over it' only works for some people. For others, it just makes them relive trauma, damaging them even further.
  • To be fair though, Elizabeth doesn't really seem the type to ignore it...
    • I also agree, most people (Including Lizzy) were just happy that he was alive, but it's implied in chapter chapter 66, that Lizzy has always wondered about it but she just doesn't have the guts to ask him..

Grell's Trans Status

• Okay, honestly, why is Grell listed as a female on the character page? This is coming from a soon to be FtM trans, too. No matter the mentality, I am biologically female at the moment and people address me as such. I don't mind and it only makes me more determined, but that's besides the point. In the anime, Grell was not much more than a stereotypical effeminate gay (or perhaps bisexual) male. In the manga then yeah sure, he's more wants-to-be-a-girl than 'effeminate', and I see him as more pansexual than gay/bi. Anyway, not a single character in the entire series refers to Grell as female - not even the author herself, thus making it simply not canon to refer to him as female on the character page. It's a method of his personality that is sadly only used as comic relief and that's it, and it should be treated as such. Doing otherwise just confuses the fans, especially considering that most of the fans have only seen the anime. I get that we're trying to be considerate towards the trans community, but this is a manga we're talking about where the situation's only brought up in a character book. There's no reason to be so particular about something that's never truly pressed upon in-story, the way I and many other fans see it. Unless I'm missing something.
  • None of the characters in the series refer to Grell as female because they were raised in the Victorian Era and subscribing to anything other than the heteronormative was a) basically inconceivable for most people and b) illegal for everyone else. The author doesn't refer to Grell as female because, based on most anime examples I've encountered, the only place with a more prevalent Trans Equals Gay mindset than Japan is Iran. Our attempts to address Grell being transgendered seriously rather than as comic relief are probably due to the fact that using the fact that someone is transgendered as comic relief is REALLY FUCKING OFFENSIVE. And, yes, it's "just a manga". Except it's not just a manga, is it? It's a view that the author carried around in her back pocket and put into a manga. It's a view that you're deciding is okay to perpetuate because, oh noes, we might confuse the poor uneducated cisgendered fans if we show this character the basic human decency to be called the gender that she is. And kudos to you for being okay with having a female pronoun forced on you because I would have been violent to you in ways that would make Grell look like Strawberry Shortcake if you'd referred to me with a male pronoun half as many times as you did her.
    • Let me direct you to Family Compo, a lovely manga about a young man living with his transgender aunt and uncle that seems to refute that.
    • As anotheer fellow anime fan, let me direct you to Ouran High School Host Club, a manga in which the protagonist's father cross dresses and is portrayed as a very sympathetic loving father and is treated as comic relief just as much as the main love interest. It might not be a good idea to base an entire nation's mindset off of what you have seen in anime. Also there are plenty of other nations with a far more critical view of the LGBT community than Japan, who has no qualms about including them in their children's shows.
    • But Grell is comic relief, it's who his character is. His transsexual nature is never brought up in the story so how could it be part of that comic relief when the story reads the same disregarding it and most of the readers/watchers are unaware that he is?
  • Grell was never meant to be a serious look at real life problems. It may be that you're projecting a bit. This may sound insensitive, but I think that having transgendered people in media PERIOD is a big step forward. Just like how at first gays were all comedy stereotypes in media, the fact that they're allowed in media at all is a big step forward. Hang in there. The world moves forward slowly, but it does move forward.
  • Because if someone refers to him/herself as either male or female, it'd be only respectful to treat them in the terms THEY want to be treated as? Also, Yana Toboso wrote an "interview with Grell" omake in which Grell refers to herself as a "lady" and explains why she uses female pronouns/speech, so this is Word of God on how Grell views herself and ignoring it is... well, let's leave it at that.
  • Also, keep in mind that the original poster is not the spokesperson of transexuals, fictional or otherwise. Just because that's how you feel doesn't mean that's how everyone feels. MST3K Mantra.

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1. ↑ This was actually routine at points, as a way for a noble family to hide that they were having to sell off the family jewels.