Ben 10: Alien Force/Headscratchers


Ben 10 Alien Force

  • How the hell did an alien made up of FLAME AND ROCKS breed with a human to produce Allen's ancestors. It hurts my brain and genitals just thinking about it. Even forgoing No Biochemical Barriers, one part of that pairing is on fire with no visible genitalia.
    • Perhaps artificial insemination. Somehow.
      • Word of God is that 'interspecies breeding aids are common throughout the galaxy', I hope that explains it.
    • "Flame proof lingerie and a lot of aloe" As for where a Pyronite keeps it's genitals... best not to think about it.
      • Retractable genitals are a common feature in many species—take a look at reptiles. The more pressing question is what Pyronite semen is composed of; if it's on fire like the rest of them, there could be some problems.
      • If you didn't catch what the above Troper was getting at, their semen is fucking molten lava, goddammit! Those bukkake videos would either be horrifyingly terrifying, or insanely awesome.
    • He cheated on his human wife with a visiting Asbestonian. Mrs. Onfire never found out because he's a Mister Seahorse.
    • This troper has decided, for the sake of her own sanity, that it is all the result of some sort of weird genetics experiment. No idea why the genes of so many different species seem to combine so readily, though.
    • This is my own Wild Mass Guessing, but I am of the view that, since humans are the only sentient race without some kind of apparent superpower, as compensation, we can produce viable hybrids with other species. Sorta makes up the Jack of All Stats of the galaxy.
    • Not to mention the ethical questions - is that bestiality / zoophilia ? Even if they are sentient, can we really force an unborn lifeform to be the first hybrid of its kind ? Even if the genetics combine readily - maybe the Ben 10 universe was populated by panspermia and the species simply evolved into different end products ? Also, most of the plumber kids were at least hybridized with the HUMANOID alien species (Stinkfly/Human OTP ?), and those who seem to have a comparable biochemistry (i.e. carbon based; please tell me there isn't a Petrosapien hybrid ((Diamondhead)) ) - so there should be a basic compatibility, assuming that the DNA structure is the same amongst all species (and since several million species on earth have the same basic DNA structure, it seems to be IRL.) Yeah, this Troper has taken his biochemistry serious. TVTropes have ruined his life sometimes, but he lives For Science! anyways. And questions cartoon ethics, biology, etc.
    • Technically, Ben's been raped, too, since the implied blackout negated his ability to consent to whatever action led to the events of "Save The Last Dance."
      • That was asexual, and generally considering how Alien Force, despite saying that Ben "dramatically matured", screws everything over even worse then its source material. It's not really rape so much as having a wet dream.
      • That was asexual. only in Fanon. I'd love to see Word of God discuss that issue...
    • For aliens ancestrey perhaps Pyronites can turn off there flames but we never saw Ben do that because there was no reson for him to do so.
  • Why did the Omnitrix reset lock out the original aliens? Never mind it being a cheap excuse for Swampfire and EchoEcho to even exist...
    • My guess? Five years of inactivity screwed it up. But not enough to render it useless. Azmuth probably knew that it was going to happen so he made the reset a feature. it's like pulling your old NES out of the closet and turning it on(Kinda)
    • In general, the new aliens are stronger, so it probably just modified itself.
    • It's like a computer. Since Ben hadn't used it for so long it 'rebooted' with another randomly selected set of aliens.
      • That's exactly what this troper thought. They've shown that the omnitrix really has thousands, maybe millions, of aliens stored in it. If the first 10 aliens Ben got were just randomly activated, it makes sense that when it rebooted, the omnitrix started with a different list. The problem's just that neither Ben nor the audience really knows how the thing works.
      • The season one finale kinda confirmed this. The omnitrix works in sets of 10, and we saw that it seems to randomly generate the list of what aliens get chosen after a reset.
  • Why has Gwen never made use of all the martial arts skills she has? Come on, she's a freakin' BLACK BELT, and she never uses it to defend herself against the DNAliens. This would have saved her butt in "Undercover".
    • Her non-canon 30-year-old self mentioned she'd get a blackbelt. 30 years is a lot, of which only 5 have passed. To be fair, however, my memory is rusty and don't remember the color of the belt she was wearing in the first ep. But just keep that in mind.
      • It's black, and she already knew quite a bit of karate as a ten-year-old (used some of it against Ghostfreak, as I recall). No excuse, really, except...
    • Because even if it is a Magic Skirt, she still insists on wearing a skirt (and heels. Why do so many alien/zombie/crime/weather-fighting girls insist on wearing uncomfortable clothing and shoes that restrict even normal movement, much less butt-kicking).
      • Gwen's powers of Fan Service make this shows plot holes tolerable.
    • Speaking of Gwen's powers, in one episode we see her use laser eye beams to cut open a trapping that she and Kevin are in. If she was able to use these laser eye beams the whole time, why hasn't she used them more often? I mean, think of the amount of times where she needs to use both hands to maintain a shield and she gets attacked from the sides. Instead of weakening her shield by using one of her hands to fire an energy ball, she could simply turn her head and use her eye beams.
  • How is Kevin an ally, on earth, in human form now and a villain in Biological Mashup form in the Null Void in the episodes set in the future in the original series?
    • One of the aliens in that Biological Mashup is an Ectonurite. You know, the species with intelligent, malevolent DNA? His hatred of Ben was actually Ghostfreak's hatred of Ben.
    • The Ben 10,000 episodes were never canon, per Word of God. "One possible future," one assumes.
    • Now that I've seen the Paradox episode, I assume he deleted that timeline... for whatever reason.
    • This troper always assumed that Ben and Gwen bringing back a birthday from the future for Grandpa's birthday undid a For Want of a Nail scenario, with the cake being the "nail."
  • What the hell happened to Kevin's powers? He went from energy-manipulating Biological Mashup to having the ability to turn into anything he touches. And how did he escape the Null Void?
    • Word of God says Kevin still has his energy-absorbing powers, but refuses to use them (#1 fan theory: he's afraid he'll go mutant again), and that both the reason for this and how he escaped the Null Void are going to be plots in future episodes.
    • Not sure about the last one, but taking on properties of things he touched was Kevin's power from the get go. His Biological Mash Up form was a result of him trying to mimic the Omnitrix.
    • Actually, energy absorption was his power from the get go. Absorbing Man-lite is a new power.
    • Given that matter and energy are two aspects of the same phenomenon, it's actually an extension of his original power. Then again, the show never paid much attention to real science.
    • Um, no. Originally; he could absorb only energy and he would have power over whatever energy he touched. Now that has apparently changed to gain a coating of some mineral when touched will completely cover one's skin.
      • Which makes more sense, matter is just an organzed form of energy and as he got older his Puberty Superpower s kicked in and he was able to use matter.
    • Maybe it was a Puberty Superpower, only instead of getting a power it modified his existing power?
    • I don't know how he did it, but Paradox is responsible. That's the only explanation for everything that's wrong with this sequel.
    • Ask Dwayne sez: "He can absorb solids, liquids (which suck as armor btw) and energy, but doesn't like to use the latter". My guess? Probably has to do with the whole alien-chimera thing.
      • This Troper's theory is that Kevin prefers to mimic solids as a matter of coherency. If he turns into energy, he might disperse.
    • This troper just assumed that, once Kevin's powers eventually stopped going haywire because of the omnitrix (however many months or years that took), they settled on matter absorbing instead of energy absorbing. He probably considers himself lucky just for looking human again.
    • Word of God says that Kevin's always been able to absorb solids, liquids, and energy. He's just not absorbing energy anymore.
  • And why is Kevin only turning into metal or stone? Why can't they mix it up a little by having turn into sand or earth or wood?
    • Turning into sand might make him fall apart, effectively killing him. And in a fight, wouldn't you want to absorb and use the strongest substance for armor/weapons? Why would you turn into soft materials like earth/wood when there's plenty of rock and metal?
    • Plus it's been explicitly shown that Kevin only creates a skin out of whatever material he's using, this has been shown as the material can be ripped off (he can also extend protection to other people he's touching). He doesn't absorb properties as much as he's simply making armor.
      • But what happened in the episode when that guy tried to turn him into his own private regenerating crystal mine? It looked like his whole body changed... painfully and disturbingly so.
      • He cringes when the rubber was melted. Possibly convection, possibly because despite being his "Armor" it shares nerves with his skin. So all that excess crystal would be like being forced to grow humongous skin cancer tumors and having them ripped off of you.
    • We've seen him do rubber and wood eventually.
      • How does coating himself in metal allow him to lift a train?! If anything he should be weaker because he has to exert extra energy just to move his arms under the weight of the metal.
      • It enhances his strength, smartass, Word of God said so. As for the metal weight thing, I'm guessing that the armor bends to his (and other Osmosians') will to make it easier for him to move.
  • Where precisely is Bellwood, anyway? Maybe I just missed the episode, but when I typed "Bellwood" into MapQuest, the entire eastern half of the US seems to have a Bellwood. My personal bet is on Tennessee, just to keep with their whole "ten" theme...
    • But their town isn't full of rednecks...
      • Yeah, because that's all we Tenesseans have, right? Rednecks and banjos, a-hyuk. Oak Ridge? What the Hell is Oak Ridge?
    • Probably somewhere around Arizona, judging by the abandoned desert highway around the town.
    • For the sake of Cousinshipping, West Virginia.
      • Leave West Virginia alone. Pick on some Liberal state, after all, sex and drugs are the only things they're liberal about.
        • Are you guys really doing this? making a cartoon into a political bashing.
    • "Race Against Time" didn't even try to pretend it's not California.
    • Maybe it's in the same state as Springfield.
  • Does it bug anyone else how the Plumber badges sort of resemble the Green Lantern insignia? I mean, it WOULD explain a lot, but, what?
  • It actually makes sense to me that a lot of Plumbers, since they have to keep so many secrets from normal humans and are always working alongside aliens, would end up in relationships with aliens. What baffles me is HOW the humans and aliens find each other physically attractive. I guess "what's on the inside" really has to count, when what's on the outside is a fire monster or a four-armed giantess.
    • Never underestimate Fetish Fuel, Rule34, Xenophilia and Furries.
  • Does Verdona's Methuselah Syndrome species have policies about when Mayfly December Romances with species like humans end? Otherwise, didn't Max cheat on her with the Green-Skinned Space Babe who sent him the Omnitrix?
    • Can you blame him? Verdona was so wrapped up in her 'parties' that even after her lover's death she describes her whole relationship as "a kid having her fun." She was also far too comfortable with killing Gwen against her will. The alien that sent him the omnitrix was level headed, kept her priorities straight (she immediately decided that neither the Omnitrix nor Max were worth losing), and she has lots in common with him.
    • The big question here is when did Max have that relationship. If Verdona left Max pretty early on in their marriage, he could've been single again when he met the Green-Skinned Space Babe. Or alternately, he could've met her first, they broke up due to their career issues, and he married Verdona later. The only thing that strikes me as odd is that Gwen's father seems to take her presence for granted - there's no shocked "omg you're alive!" reaction or anything, and he has no trouble recognizing her as a seemingly elderly woman (he's also not surprised by her alien form, although she said Max never knew about that). So she must've reentered her children's lives at some point, but when, and how did Max not know about it (or was she just underestimating him when she said that)?
  • Speaking of Verdona being a sad party crazed woman who'd rather have fun then see her family, anyone else notice that she says she checked the grand kids for "the spark" and left when she didn't find it... when Gwen clearly has her powers? It sounds like an excuse to ditch her children: "Oh hi, I'm your mother, you don't have the spark, gotta go."
    • It's probally a ressevive gene, her species as a whole seems rather free spirited and seeing as she probaly met Max in the golden age of the hippies it seems to make sence.
  • Kevin mentions his mom telling him stories about his dad, who wasn't there because he was a Plumber. Um, correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't Kevin's backstory before the Time Skip that his parents abandoned him on the streets of New York City?
    • Not an issue his mom told him about his alien dad, remarried stepdad was a dick, wanted "that freak out of here" and kicked him out.
    • Ask Dwayne sez: "There's a story we haven't told. oh, and Kevin had a stepdad too." And they use "abandoned" as in "kicked out of the house". Weird wording, but yeah.
    • Kevin was using the story of his parents to win Ben's sympathy. Even at the end of that episode, he was still playing the "poor me, I don't have anyone who cares" angle just to lure Ben into arm's reach. There's probably some truth to what he said about his parents, but it seemed to me, even before Alien Force, that he more likely became uncontrollable and just ran away from home.
  • Another case in point: Since when is the Null Void a prison where Plumbers officially sentence criminals? It's an Alternate Dimension where Max and Earth Plumbers, at least, teleported aliens that invaded Earth because, well, what else are you going to do with them? Kevin wasn't "sentenced" there by some sort of alien court; he was left there after a battle with Ben.
    • The plumbers on Earth WERE plumbers, they were just follwing standard procedure.
    • And, hey, whatever happened to the Alien prison from Secret of the Omnitrix? Now they just dump EVERYTHING into the Null Void. (This editor is expecting that at one point, when someone throws somthing into the Null Void, they will get a paper spewed at them saying "We are full. Go away."
      • The latest jaunt into the Null Void more or less explains it. And remember: The dude with the other omnitrix whose name I forget was in a Plumber's Prison. Or so does Word of God say.
      • Likely that the Alien Prison from "Secret of the Omnitrix" is for lesser prisoners, while the Null Void prison is like the 'Alcatraz' of the universe.


  • That one Plumber mentioned that there was no significant alien activity on Earth... at the same time Verdona mentions that news of Max's death had spread far and wide. So what do the plumbers think killed Max, and if they really didn't know, how come there was no investigation on the death of one of the greater Plumbers??
  • Everything about the episode "Plumber's Helpers". First of all, what kind of alien slut was Helen and Pierce's father/mother to sleep with two different alien species? Second: "Oh hey! It's Plumber Kids, the ones we were supposed to be teaming up with. Oh, they stuffed all of the other Plumber's Kids into the Null Void. Looks like THEY'LL have to rescue them. What, you think that since we're the main characters we should help rescue innocent children who were unjustly imprisoned in a Hell dimension? Fuck that, we don't feel like it. You two do it. BAI!"
    • It get's worse when you realize that Helen and Manny thought the Null Void portal was a disintegrator. Oh man......Then that would mean that H&M's form of "Alien Fighting" was to DISINTEGRATE ANY ALIEN THEY FOUND, WITHOUT TRIAL. DEAR GOD. So they were planning to do this (at least Manny) to a bunch of teenagers that they saw trying to save people from THEIR fuck up. This editor immediately lost all respect for them.
    • Manny's mom adopted Pierce and Helen, btw. Word of God. And dunno. Teenagers are quite dumb.
      • A great case of Easily Forgiven and Karma Houdini. The "Plumber's Helpers" were, as far as they knew, straight up murdering people while being dicks about it (at least Manny was), and they don't get any form of punishment. Even if it wasn't murder, they were still shoving people into a hellish dimension for being half-alien, just like them.
  • Wasn't Ben supposed to get hurt whenever one of his alien forms got hurt? What happened to that? 'Cause I can't remember that ever coming up again after the first few episodes. And it could've been a catalyst for good characterization.
    • Eh, there was never anything in the first series that said that Ben DIDN'T get hurt when his alien forms get hurt. He just doesn't get hurt that often. And if damage really does carry over through all transformations, I assume he could heal most injuries just by turning into Swampgas and regenerating.
  • HOW IN THE WORLD CAN BEN GIVE BIRTH ? ((Please excuse the CAPS LOCK OF RAGE)) And how is neither he, nor Gwen or anyone else Squicked ? The episodes aren't pout in Europe, so I can only guess what happens - how do the babies get Handwaved away ?
    • He was a necrofrigian at the time and they asexualy reproduce.
    • The transformation is a DNA rewrite, so the Necrofrigian can apparently replicate asexually. Either that, or Big Chill took Ben's body walkies at some point. Or maybe Azimuth just caught the DNA sample off a Necrofrigian that was about to lay eggs.

Plot Holes in Grounded

  • How come Ben's parents didn't recognize Gwen at the fight scene in the street?
    • It's possible they couldn't see her cause of darkness or smoke, or they were too distracted with the realization that Ben was turning into an alien.
  • How could Gwen's parents ground her for "deceiving" her aunt and uncle? They knew about the alien fighting at least since the Verdona incident, so they've been deceiving them, too.
    • Because it looks bad on them to have been lying to each other so it was done to save face.
  • Raising the question, why didn't they either share that information with Ben's parents long ago or try to reason with them now, since they obviously must be more open-minded about the whole thing?
  • How come there were no green explosions when Ben's dad tried to remove the Omnitrix?
    • I suspect that the DNA was similar enough that the Omnitrix decided not to kill him
    • The Omnitrix has changed...
  • So, none of the original series' possible finales are canon, right?
    • Welcome to Retcon land, population: Alien Force. Where continuity is shuffled and forgotten at random.
    • Paradox did it.... * Shudders at a sudden thought* I pray that isn't the real excuse. With all these changes to Ben's life, he's starting to come off as a scary pedophile stalker.
    • That's stupid, Paradox didn't do a damn thing except explain that there was an Multiverse in "Ben 10,000.
  • Why did Azmuth get so pissy when another Galvan made an Omnitrix ? The episodes aren't out here so I don't know whether he wanted to use it for personal gain / bad things or not, but if he didn't then they all overreacted, kinda. Okay, well maybe he wouldn't be able to defend himself and somebody else would get the tech... Wait, considering that - why hasn't anyone else through of making their own Omnitrix rather then steal the one existing ? If that guy can do it...
    • It was implied that his aprentice was a dick, and couldn't even make his own omnitrix without piggybacking on Ben's.
    • Because, literally, There Can Be Only One. More than one creates some kind of lethal instability that could "rip a hole in the fabric of the universe." How it causes that is another matter. The point is, it's a safety issue. Vilgax originally wanted the Omnitrix to mass produce it to create his own army. Apparently, it's very fortunate he never got the chance.
      • You have got to be shitting me. Science Does Not Work That Way. It's just a Transformation Trinket / MacGuffin, and it's universe powered ? ... Galvans love Tim Taylor Technology, don't they.
      • Another point by the same Troper as above - The Null Void generator makes a hole in the fabric of the universe already. It's not like it can't take it, is it ?
        • SO far we've seenn the 'trix
          • Piss all over the laws of conservation of mass
          • Be cabbly of destryoing the entire UNIVERSE
          • Able to initiate some sort of rapid growth
          • AND to top it all of, it opertes under some kind of weird "programmed energy" If this shit ISN'T running on some type of super universe energy, I don't want to know what it is running on
      • Keep in mind, this is the same Azmuth who designed the original Omnitrix with a built-in "destroy the whole universe" feature, and then had to be begged into turning it back off when it got switched on by accident. It's crazy that a Transformation Trinket works that way, but it's consistent with the "Secret of the Omnitrix" movie, at least.
      • If this troper had to Fan Wank an explanation, maybe the Omnitrix uses a massively powerful quantum computer to store all the alien DNA information, and messing with the computer runs the risk of triggering a vacuum collapse that'll swallow up the universe.


  • In "Good Copy Bad Copy", during the fight at the castle, why did Kevin have to resort to absorbing an arm's worth of sword metal? There were big honkin' drawbridge chains right behind him.
  • Two things: 1) When did the watch that was designed to bring a new level of peace and understanding to universe suddenly get retconned into the ultimate anti-highbreed weapon? It's arguable that it was just part of it's abilities from the start that are useful in this situation, but that's more of a hand-wave answer. 2) Secret of the Omnitrix was deemed as a non-canon ending (like EVERY other one) of the original series, IIRC, but Azmuth, who was introduced in that special, is featured many times in Alien Force as the watch's creator. So does that make Secret of the Omnitrix canon, and if so, what ever happened to Azmuth's self-imposed exile??? Suddenly he "can not leave his homeworld" in the wake of an invasion? Wha?
    • 1) Azmuth flat-out tells Ben that he hasn't given him the whole truth about the Omnitrix, it being both a device to foster interplanetary relations, and a device tho help restore extinct species, such as the ones destroyed by the Highbreed. As the Omnitrix contains DNA for a staggering number of alien species, it makes sense. It's been hinted that it may play a role in restoring the Petrosapiens, for example.
    • 2) Not having seen all of "Secret", I can't give a full answer, but if Azmuth's exile was self-imposed, he may have decided to return due to the very real threat of the Highbreed. Idunno. Also, I thought they only considered the "What if?" episodes (the ones opening with a comic book) to be non-canon.
      • In the movie, Azmuth was ignoring the very real threat of the complete destruction of the universe, which he himself caused with the self destruct button in the Omnitrix that he was totally uninterested in disarming. The presense of Waybig in the Alien Force finale is proof that "Secret of the Omnitrix" is in continuity.


  • In the Season 2 Finale, how come Cooper didn't build his Humongous Mecha with a cockpit to protect his head and, indeed, his entire upper body? Similarly, why didn't Julie ride inside Spaceship!Ship, as she did in the episode where it first used that form, rather then standing on top of it, exposing herself to gravity, high-altitude winds, and gunfire?
    • Don't know about cooper, but I'm assuming that Julie just wanted everyone to know that she was still in the episode(also it it helped that she could hold one of the blasters that turns humans back to normal).
  • WHERE THE HELL IS VILGAX!?!
    • Check the upcoming video game. Ben 10: Alien Force: the Return of Vilgax.
      • He's back...


  • Where the hell did Gwen's parents go while Verdona was threatening to destroy Gwen's body? They're sitting on the couch, they've agreed to let Gwen make up her own mind, Gwen says she wants to stay on Earth, and Verdona reveals her energy being form. Gwen's mom snarks about Verdona looking good for her age, so, okay, they're still in the room at this point. Then Verdona immediately starts talking about killing Gwen's human body, Ben and Kevin react with appropriate horror and her parents... aren't on the screen and don't even seem to exist anymore. Cue the commercial break, and when we return, Verdona has BLASTED A HOLE IN THE LIVING ROOM WALL, while Ben and Kevin are fighting for Gwen's life, and her parents are... off having coffee, or something. Seriously, where ARE they? Of course they can't stand up to Verdona's power, but shouldn't they at least be trying to talk her down? The fight scene drags on and on with no sign of them, Gwen finally convinces her grandmother to back off, everyone has a happy ending, and the credits roll, all without her parents ever showing up again - wait, I stand corrected, they finish their coffee just in time to walk up at the very end so her mom can make another snarky comment. What the hell?
  • Why is Alien X so useless? Let's consider the situation: there are two equal minds within Alien X who represent opposing yin-yang viewpoints on everything, and Alien X's physical form is rendered immobile by their constant stalemate. But, as one of them says to Ben as their reason for imprisoning him, he can now break their deadlock by being the tie-breaking third vote. Okay, so that means Alien X's decisions only require a simple majority. Well, that's great news for him, isn't it? Since the other two, by their very nature, are always going to give opposite answers to any suggestion he makes, one of them will always agree with him, which means he will always win any course of action he suggests by a 2-1 vote. Had he stopped trying to convince them to put aside their own differences, and just started quickly rattling off vote after vote about what he wants to do, he could've dictated every single decision Alien X makes.
    • He tried something like that, but they refused to let him make a decision without a lengthy debate beforehand.
    • Not to mention that the Voices are pretty much just huge hypocrites who really want to debate more than actually follow their supposed ideals. As an example; he asked peace-and-kindness-loving Serena to end the conflict by eliminating the planet buster. No dice. Then he asked war-and-destruction-loving Bellicus to just tear the ships apart. Nope. There is precicely one thing they will always agree on; they want to keep debating. They don't want Ben to actually make decisions and do things, they just want a third party to debate with.
    • Ben didn't really feel like being condemned to an eternity of parliamentary debate. Granted, there are ways he could get Alien X to work, but they're time-consuming, boring, a bit over Ben's head, and the other two are unlikely to ever let Ben go again.
  • Ben is a jerk and lies to Julie about what he's doing. Fine. But in the ep in question, no one of the main trio tasks Julie at all for keeping Ship, an alien life form of immense and unknown power, around and not telling the three people who know about this sort of thing. This in a world where mere contact with alien life and tech can be disastrous.
  • How the Hell does an entire species go sterile all at once? Shouldn't their population have gradually dwindled as part of each generation was born sterile instead?
    • You answered your own question. What we saw was the end result of that process, not the sudden sterilization of a previously healthy species.
      • But there were still enough of them to stand a chance at wiping out every other species in the Universe.
        • But "enough of them" could still be a very small percentage of what they were at their peak. So long as enough Highbreed were just fertile enough to keep an overall 1:1 ratio going, the problem could've been quietly building for countless generations. It's only within the last few generations that the reproduction rate became unsustainable, and the danger of extinction became an urgent problem.
  • So let me get this straight—twice in the finale, Ben decides that they have to get into the Highbreed HQ—first on Earth and then on their home world. Each time, they basically embark on a kamikaze run, first with Kevin's tricked-out car and then with Ship. Too bad they didn't have someone on their team who could move through time and space in the blink of an eye, without risking valuable equipment or someone's LIFE.
    • Oh wait, they DID. For some reason, they decided he was of better use blasting hostages one at a time with the same device about 10 other people were using.
      • I see your point. Paradox is effectively a GOD. Not even a superman-esque Physical God, I'm talking about a Doctor Manhattan on steroid with the ability to actually act i.e. a puppet that can see the strings, kick the puppeteer in the balls AND take over. In ANY other media, one would need a huge Deus Exit Machina to make the stories interesting. In Alien Force? They Just Didn't Care.
    • They Just Didn't Care, indeed. In his first appearance, it's suggested that, immortality aside, Paradox's only ability is a kind of mental map, showing him the exact place and time to be in order to transport himself to another place and time.
  • How exactly are the Highbreed more Powerful than Vilgax? On a threat level Vilgax was capable of destroying planets single-handedly, creating black holes to destroy even more planets, and is such a bastard that the plumbers are all terrified of him, and most lifeforms are unwilling to work with him, so he has to use robots. In contrast, the plumbers don't seem to consider the Highbreed as much of a threat, andconstantly hire bounty hunters and suchlike. On a physical level, Ben never stood a snowballs chance in hell chance against Vilgax in any of their fights, whereas he could beat a highbreed in a fair fight. On a personal level, Vilgax is completely remorseless and relentless, and will stop at nothing to achieve his goals. The Highbreed, after getting healed by the Omnitrix, and losing their "purity" pretty much say "Oh, okay. we're sorry we were so mean, we'll be nice now. What, our strictly held beliefs that we've held for eons in regards to species purity? Nah, forget those." What the hell? If they'd ever tried making peace with Vilgax, he would've stabbed them with their own Olive Branch, beaten them to death with Kevin's stupid car and blown up the solar system for good measure.
    • Well, there's a lot more of them than there are of Vilgax. Vilgax is apparantly one lone, rogue member of his species, an interstellar gangster whose resources are pretty much confined to one ship. The Highbreed have the numbers, infrastructure and planning to launch a coordinated war against the galaxy. Vilgax can be a hundred times stronger than any Highbreed, but if there's a million Highbreed, they still win. And were the Plumbers ever really scared of Vilgax? Max was scared for Ben, because Vilgax has every reason to kill Ben, but whenever he's facing down Vilgax alone (such as the flashback scene with the missile), he comes off as pretty Badass.
      • Though Vilgax seems to have picked up a fleet along the way, going by the AF previews, so that might be about to change...
      • Also: "Nah, forget those" is a gross misinterpretation of what happened. The Highbreed were just about to commit species-wide seppuku, or the equivalent, because of that. It wasn't until Rhiney, another Highbreed with the same condition, showed up and vouched for life that they didn't do that.
    • Regardless, they were very Easily Forgiven, despite their actions (not unlike Kevin, actually.) And Vilgax wasn't alone, he had a massive army of robots at his command. And his one ship was apparently capable of destroying earth by itself.
  • If the Highbreed are "More powerful than Vilgax", why is he reappearing in season 3? I know I wanted Vilgax back, but now his appearance is brand new, with his mechanical implants completely removed, and his voice actor changed, why? First, he suffered almost completely irreparable damage in the first series, and had to use the implants, in other words, how did he remove the implants? Second, the voice is completely different, it probably is Steve Blum, but still, why is his voice so different? I hate to say it, but, They Changed It, Now It Sucks.
    • Cloning and regeneration take time, young padawan. He needed the implants before because he wasn't waiting. This time, he did wait long enough that he wouldn't need implants. As for the voice... we have a trope for that and its not that big a deal.
  • The aesthetic changes to Vilgax bug me as well, but I'll let them go for now. With the season 3 premiere: A) WHY does Ben still have Jetray, Cannonbolt, and many of the same old aliens when at the end of season 2 he claimed "I don't recognize ANY of these guys," b) Why is Vilgax not only following intergalactic rules (something I'm pretty sure he NEVER bothered doing in the better original series) but also suddenly displaying a sense of honor (something he NEVER EVER EVER had in the original) and c) When did Diamondhead get the ability to move crystal with his mind? Last I checked, he could grow crystals and shoot crystals, but not magically lift them. Also, those laser eyes that Vilgax magically got are such a huge Omega Beam rip-off.
    • On the Diamondhead's powers front, Ben never knew the true extent of all his forms powers. I know from talking to Manofaction at SDCC that both Kevin and Ben didn't know all of Greymatter's abilities (In Kevin's case, he didn't have Greymatter's intelligence, he had an ability that Ben displayed once in "A Small Problem" and never again. It's entirely possible that Diamondhead could always do that, he just never found out before. Alternatively, Puberty Superpower.
    • I doubt it, but it might be a Xanatos Gambit on Vilgax's part.
      • Given that once his plan failed to take out Ben, he promptly ignored the legal requirement to never come back to Earth...yeah. Obviously Vilgax was playing by the rules only for as long as the rules benefited him.
    • Knowing Vilgax, he's had so long to stew about the little earth boy who he coulnd't kill that he's decided to play along by these rules in order to make an example out of him rather than simply blow up his house (again?).
    • Also why the hell did they got rid of his gas mask?
    • Just think of it as "The Vengeance of Vilgax's Kid Brother," and all will be well.
    • The way I see it Vilgax is playing these rules as the ultimate "Take that" to Ben and all who oppose him. By following the rules of conquest (not sure if that was the actual name of them) he is legally taking over planets and nobody can do jack to stop him. Remember Vilgax has been challenging only the strongest warrior of each planet, meaning it is a one on one fight as in no interference from friends. If he wins he gets to take ownership of the planet and it is all perfectly legit. There is nothing more humiliating for the heroes then to lose to your arch-nemesis in a perfectly legit match.
  • I know there have been plenty of other complaints about Vengeance of Vilgax, but there's one thing that I don't think has been mentioned yet, and I need to vent, so without further ado... why on earth is Vilgax so WEAK? We're talking about a uber-powerful villain who doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word "pain"! Even before he received his enhancements, Vilgax survived being stuck to a missile, which was then fired at his own ship and promptly detonated... and he doesn't even register the guy who did it to him as a threat, only as an ANNOYANCE! All throughout the original series, the arrival of Vilgax was always heralded with an Oh Crap from all who knew of him, and even though Ben always managed to get away with the Omnitrix and his life, he never managed to finish off Vilgax for good, and we always knew he'd be back. And now, all of a sudden he gets beaten by Diamondhead dropping a few big crystals on him. The alien who survived a missile explosion at point-blank range got beat by getting something heavy dropped on him... by Diamondhead! Back in the original series, Diamondhead couldn't punch Vilgax without chipping himself, and it didn't even phase Vilgax (you can chalk it up to him getting more durable, after five years all you want, but that doesn't excuse him being able to beat Vilgax in such an anticlimactic way). The REALLY annoying thing about all this is that they had Vilgax going around absorbing powers from other aliens, including Ultimos. If anything, he should have gotten STRONGER!
  • "In Charm's Way" had another example of the writers changing how they're powers work. Upchuck drank a smoothie and then started spitting nuclear loogies. Upchuck can't eat organic matter, much less convert it into projectiles. Unless Mr. Smoothie really needs a health inspection, they can't weasel their way out of this one.
    • Well, it was a brought-to-life billboard, not a regular cup of smoothie. Presumably the smoothielike stuff inside is just some construct made from magic, or whatever. A wizard quite literally did it.
  • Surprised that this hasn't come up yet, but how did Vilgax smashing Chromastone make him turn into Diamondhead?
    • Maybe Chromastone is some kind of developmental stage for Diamondhead's species and Vilgax's smashing made the Omnitrix speed up "puberty" for him? Or maybe the writers wanted one of Ben's older aliens to show up and were feeling kind lazy?
      • I see it as an admission by the writing staff that Chromastone was an incompetent attempt at a Diamondhead tribute that did not work. It both shot lasers and hit things with nothing to make it unique to the other aliens (50% of which shot lasers, and the other 50% hit things) and his toys weren't selling (seriously, go to any toy store and the unsold stock will be up to 50% Chromastone)
      • "Vilgax"'s sword turned into Petrosapien crystal and it hit the omnitrix. Maybe it triggered some kind of malfunction?
  • Has it dawned on anybody yet that none of Ben's aliens are wearing that black and white outfit they had in the original show. Yes, they're naked. It's too bad Fourarms hasn't showed up yet...
    • Yeah, in the original series, the Omnitrix insignia was usually on a type of clothing they wore, or on the chest and forehead, but in Alien Force, are there any aliens that don't have it on their chest? Hell, even when Ben got Ghostfreak in the Omnitrix, Ghostfreak's form still had that stupid "Omnitrix symbol on the chest" thing.
    • Even if they were wearing anything, it wouldn't be the classic black-stripe-on-white design. As observed in Gwen 10, the Omnitrix simply adapts whatever the user is wearing, however ridiculous it may end up looking.
      • That's kinda what I meant, except you can't see any aspect of Ben's clothing (No, Swampfire does not count), they all happen to be Aliens with the Omnitrix symbol on the chest.
  • Until we have a seperate page for the Alien Swarm movie (if we get one at all), I'll ask this here: Why couldn't the Omnitrix just use the genetic correction function it used on the DN-Aliens and Highbreed, to get the Hive impurities out the human drone-puppets?
    • Because the Highbreed messed with the actual DNA of a human being, the Hive just turn humans into zombie esque puppets, they don't screw around with the DNA, meaning that the DNA tissue wasn't damaged. Yeah, I actively hate this series, but I feel the need to explain.
      • True, but the xenocytes that turned humans into DNAliens were just latched to the face/nervous system, and the Hive Queen was just in Elena's dad's head; same thing, right? Omnitrix could've taken care of that easy.
      • As I said, they altered the DNA of the host, the Hive Queen technically just put it's babies into other peoples heads, letting them take control of the body, they didn't alter the DNA in any way, they just controled the host, then again, this is one of the Ben 10 movies, so they probably took some liberties with the canon and ignored the Omnitrix DNA repair function, or, they just forgot about that.
    • Now for the next question. Elena's father was being used by the queen to manufacture new chips. I can go with that. However, she does this by strapping a bunch of tubes to her host, all of which are outgoing, and starts pumping out chips. Ben has an excuse to violate the law of conservation of mass, the queen doesn't. There shouldn't have been anything left of the poor guy, and the dozen or so tube-sized holes on his body would not exactly be helping.
  • I know this is going to sound weird but: Vilgaxia, seriously? According to official information, Vilgax lived in the Null Void frontier, I know it's possible he took over a random planet... But then, why is it that the planets residence don't show much fear? Why is the planet so peaceful? This is Vilgax we're talking about, the most genocidal, Complete Monster in the freaking galaxy, why would one planet be peaceful, but, then again, Character Derailment, I'll never understand.
    • I agree. Vilgax wouldn't make a deal with Ben to prevent the universe from exploding in Secret of the Omnitrix, now we're expected to believe he cares about significantly less destruction? Or a little girl?
      • It may have been more about getting back at Z'Skayr than about just saving Vilgaxia; maybe about a 55/45 split, respectively. Pet the Dog moments along the way were just a plus, along with the fact that securing an entirely new planet is proboably pretty difficult.
    • Well the way I look at it they know what he's like (weren't they of his species?) so they try not to piss him off. Seriously if some genocidal maniac took over your home, and you are vastly out powered would you really take the risk?
      • But they're not scared or intimidated by him in the slightest. A little squid-girl hugs him. What. The. Hell.
        • Think of Genghis Khan. Huge imperialist empire. Known and feared throughout Eurasia. Has a long standing reputation for being one of the most brutal conquerors ever. Loved and adored more and more the closer you got to home, where he made for damn sure conditions were optimal and nigh-utopian. It seems more of a case of him being a destructive dictator to the people he's trying to conquer and not to the people under his wing, or, more or less, Ben doesn't know the whole story.


  • "Time Heals." How, exactly, was Kevin's makeover preventing Hex from taking over considering that Kevin isn't particularly more powerful now than before? And how would Hex have conquered the world by now considering that he hasn't even shown up before? Did the explosion somehow scare Hex off the first time? Did Kevin's mutant appearance function like a scarecrow, keeping Hex from even attacking?
    • I joked that they needed to use Kevin as a bludgeoning weapon to stop Hex, and his normal body wasn't sturdy enough to survive the many many impacts needed for victory.
    • I imagine that the episode is a call-back to "In Charm's Way", where the Omnitrix broke for a while and it was up to Kevin and Gwen to fight Charmcaster, with the deviation being that Charmcaster would have won since Kevin wouldn't have been able to stall for time. The problem with that is that Hex isn't involved in that plot at all, and if Charmcaster got Gwen's powers, I doubt she'd cut Hex in on the deal.
    • Another thing about that episode; why did Gwen go through all the trouble of breaking into Hex's place to steal his book of spells, if she wasn't even going to read it and already knew the spell off by heart? And if the chalk and candles were still in there in her room in the new time-line, why wasn't the book she stole in the old time-line there too?
  • If Kevin's powers only create a shell of matter then why doesn't he chip away the stuff on him? If he is actually made out of the stuff then how can his wooden legs support stone, metal, and crystal?
    • Presumably the newer mutation runs much deeper.
    • What about the second question?
  • So... Kevin tries to absorb the Omnitrix's powers, and the unstable feedback turns him into a mutated monster. A second time, he absorbs the power accidentally and it does the same thing. Darkstar absorbs the Omnitrix's powers and has absolutely no problem instantly benefiting from the raw energy. Chalk that up to Peril As The Plot Demands?
    • Or, y'know, to Kevin and Darkstar having drastically different powers that work differently? Darkstar's always been shown to be better at energy absorbing than Kevin.
  • I'm curious why no one is bothered by the fact that the Plumber's badge in AF looks like the Omnitrix's faceplate (or whatever you call it). Seriously, it's the exact same hourglass like design. It's like they're hinting at something, but have forgotten to even make a subtle remark about it.
    • Intergalactic symbol of peace. And yeah, they need to mention it in-show.
    • Or, to put it another way: Plumber's badges do not look like the Omnitirx; the Omnitrix looks like a Plumber's badge.
  • In Ghost Town, it was shown that Ghostfreak recruits his minions by altering their minds and bodies. Later, Vilgax and the kids are shown completely destroying every trace of every minion the fight. Once Fridge Logic kicks in, does this scream "murder" to anyone else?
    • A) It's not like this show, or especially its predecessor, has ever had a problem with the mass-killing of aliens; planets blowing up, a young alien woman making a joke after Ben kills her parents... B) They're possibly already dead, Vilgax having killed them already and there's no indication of it being possible to turn them back. This means that Vilgax killed millions of his own people through his own arrogance... which isn't that strange.


  • When, exactly, did Ben teach the plumbers kids "all they know?"
    • I think this was Lampshaded by Pierce when he said, "We did pretty well before we met him." He was pointing out that Alan's statement wasn't exactly accurate. Alan probably said it because the statement applied to him, and might have assumed it was the same for the others.
      • Even so, when did Ben teach them anything, let alone anywhere close to "all they know?" We've seen no indication that Ben has even spoken to Alan outside of "Everybody talks about the weather" and "War of the worlds?"
        • Presumably there's a lot going on offscreen we never see because it would be boring.
  • I can understand given a villain access to "ultimate" versions of Ben's aliens, but giving Ben that ability as a gimmick for the next series has a bit of a problem: Since there didn't seem to be any limitation on "going ultimate", why would he even bother using the regular alien forms? Unless, of course, they retcon in some limitation, which they certainly will.
    • I can't even understand the first part. a) Azmuth was never trying to make a weapon. b) evolution does not work that way. c) a species that can shoot full on missles? a seemingly unlimited amount of them?
      • My question was: Why did the writers think that 2 forms would be an interesting gimmick, if there's no reason for Ben to use the non-ultimate forms?
  • Vilgax's alliance with negative Ben Albedo makes no sense. Why would he want the omnitrix when the Ultimatrix is clearly superior? Failing that, since he was already "allied" why wouldn't he just let him use it to become normal again instead of making an enemy that was more powerful and stronger than Ben?
    • It's really a case that neither of them thought it out. Albedo wasn't going to give Vilgax the Ultimatrix for nothing and Vilgax couldn't take it from him. Albedo wants to return to his true form. A smart Vilgax would have helped traded the Omnitrix for the vastly superior Ultamatrix and Albedo would have accepted the trade. Alternatively when Vilgax betrayed him Albedo could have pointed out his was better suited for use as a weapon given a breif demonstration. . .or heck he could have explained that after Vilgax captured him. Really it's just a really bad case of Idiot Ball.
    • At this point, Vilgax wants the Omnitrix so he can transform his Mecha Mook army. The robots don't react to the Ultimatrix, so he doesn't want it. Then again, they don't react to the Omnitrix until he gets it, and he doesn't transform himself along with his Mooks, so maybe he's built some kind of cybernetic control device into his arm, and it isn't compatible with the Ultimitrix.
  • Why would a species develop the ability to shoot missiles? How would a species develop the ability to shoot missiles? And why a cold blooded reptile species? Under what understanding of biology does that approach possibility?
    • Maybe because this was a technologically-induced evolution, it intigrates slight modifications into the process?
      • It's the shows continually evolving crapiness.
    • The Bottomless Magazines part is unbelieveable, but, ergh, look up the reproductive habits of snails and slugs for information about biological harpoons.
  • People say Kevin changed because of Gwen, but think about this... Kevin was a total psychopath in the first show, so if he were attracted to her, wouldn't he be more likely to rape her?
    • Not to mention that in the first show, Kevin and Gwen only spoke a total of once, I'm not kidding, they only spoke once and Gwen nor Kevin showed interest in the other, Hormones be damned.
      • Yeah, in the original show, Kevin was pretty much all about focusing on Ben and Ben alone, being his Evil Counterpart; Gwen and Max were just blips on the radar to him. AF also tries to retcon Grandpa Max into being important to Kevin since he knew his father...which brings the question up that, if this was true, why didn't Max ever realize that Kevin was his son back in the first series?
  • How did the Omnitrix mutate Kevin into a being made of materials? In the first show, he absorbed energy, causing him to absorb DNA from the Omnitrix. The Omnitrix does nothing with materials so why did it cause Kevin to mutate? Secondly, Ben was connected to the watch when it blew, so why didn't he get his clothes blasted off like Kevin? My guess is that he's just not hot enough.
  • Anyone else think Humongousaur looks like a really big bald guy, with a tail and skin condition?
  • Where did Gwen's older brother, Ken, go? He appeared for a single episode to lure Grandpa Max into the Highbreed's trap in Season One, only to be ABSENT from the (very prominantly featured) family photos in Gwen's house during the same season. The family pictures only depict Gwen (in her Ben 10 design) and her parents, with a side photograph of Ben and Gwen in their original designs.
  • It didn't bug me the first time, but re-watching "The Final Battle" I have to ask.. when did Ben reacquire the "make the omnitrix do anything" code? Sometime after he attempted to hack it, I assume.. but wouldn't re-enabling voice command be something smart to have done before Vilgax forced him?
    • "Voice command mode", the thing Ben uses in The Final Battle, seems to be different from "master control", the "make the Omnitrix do anything" mode. "Voice command mode" seems to be just that, allowing Ben to issue voice commands. Presumably, he doesn't use it because it doesn't include "unlock all aliens, zero zero zero unlock zero" or "let me change into aliens without touching the Omnitrix, zero zero zero change zero" functions.
  • It bugs me how that, though we never see him again, there were a number of occasions to that Ben could have used Alien X. I can understand that he doesn't want to use it again, but if he figured out how to cooperate with the Voices, he could have won not only the battle against the Highbreed but Vilgax as well. Seriously, Alien X haves the abilities to stop the Highbreed and could mop the floor with Vilgax, but Ben didn't use him for any of these events.
    • And then it goes to say that if Ben does have access to Alien X, why didn't Vilgax use him when he had the Omnitrix? I could understand from "The Final Battle" that he could use him to demonstrate his power, but in "Primus" ... Seriously, he could have end Ben right then and there. But sadly, that never happened.
  • Considering how the Omnitrix self-destructed in the last episode, does that mean Ghostfreak is dead?
    • Nope, his DNA should be safely still on Primus.
  • Why is Kevin so protective of his mom now? Either she sided with his father in kicking him out onto the streets when he was 11 years old, or he ran away and left her to live on the streets when he was 11 years old. Either way, their relationship should be stretched past the breaking point, not the close-ish relationship portrayed in the show.
    • I always saw Kevin being 'kicked out' as more being threatened with being thrown out over his behavior and, like the child he was, decided this meant they didn't want him and ran away. Unlike other children he was able to protect himself and mentally unstable enough to delude himself into thinking that it was better on his own. He simply grew up and realized what had really been going on. If you went to wake up your son and he was gone, and you next saw him years later, would you be berating him and leaving the relationship 'stretched past the breaking point', or would you be grateful to have him back and be trying to be a family again?
  • Why is Hex an adult again? In his last appearance, he was turned into a toddler by the Fountain of Youth.
    • If you remember the water only works for a sort amount of time, Max was reverted to a teenager and in a few days back into his 60 (or 7o) year old self. Hex was reverted to a baby from what would be called an overdose on the water, probibly making the growing back up slower then normal.
  • A couple of problems with the episode "Primus". How come Vilgax can't use the Omnitrix anymore? This is the guy that could change Ben back to his human form with a single tap of the finger. Plus even if he had dumped Gwen and Kevin into the Codon stream, wouldn't they have just become giant and squashed him like a bug-squid thing?
    • Common consensus is that it Vilgax couldn't work the Omnitrix because he hadn't had a chance to study it since its recalibration 2.5 seasons before.
  • Regarding the "invasion laws": What planetary government would willingly follow the laws of a government that doesn't protect their sovereignty? Sure, it might be messy fighting a planetary invasion the old fashioned way, but freedom is worth fighting for.
    • In a related note, what would happen if a planet decided to fight back against their newly established dictator the old fashioned way? Would the Plumbers get involved to crush the rebellion and defend the sovereignty of the brutal dictator who just conquered their planet? If not, what dictator would follow these laws, either?
  • Chromastone and Diamondhead are similar, yet have different powers....Or they're supposed to at least. Ben uses Diamondhead to absorb and redirect lasers. So what's the point of Chromastone? And if anyone says, to fly, remember. Ben has several other flying aliens.
    • My guess is to experiment with new alien designs, since they swamped out the ones from the original series (at first) to use new ones. So while needing a reflector of lasers, they couldn't just put in Diamondhead; they needed a new alien to go along with the other new 9.
  • Watching the Vengence of Vilgax and I'm curious how the law of Champions works. I imagine on most planets who the strongest warrior is a matter of opinion not of hard fact. Even in the series Ben is only the most powerful because Kevin isn't absorbing his powers, he could at any given moment be the most powerful citizen of earth. My point is this. Considering at this point Ben is still relatively unknown (to the public) he didn't get his position by general consent from the planet since the planet is largely unaware of him. As we later find out in Ultimate Alien if consensus was needed Captain Nemesis is the most likely Earth Champion probably followed by some martial artist or boxer. If the invading force gets to make the challenge (and it's legally upheld by some space UN or what not) then why didn't Vilgax challenge Max Tennyson or anybody but Ben who was an actual threat? Once he'd won Ben would legally be unable to fight him. At least that's the impression I get but as others have pointed out in other head scratchers it's clear that Vilgax only cared about the law when it benefited him as he'd clearly attacked several times before and without reprisal.
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