Why is a song more famous than a band?

1

In a world and time very much like ours around 2000, how could I explain that all kinds of pop music strictly separate composer, author (lyricist) and performer (interpreter), just like we are used to with classical music?

CD singles should contain one song in multiple versions going beyond remixes, but there could also be competing releases. Albums would either contain a band's renditions of 10 to 30 songs by different authors or select performances of the mist recent songs by a writer.

I just need music and lyrics writers to become at least as rich and famous as performers.

Crissov

Posted 2017-01-03T06:19:07.960

Reputation: 2 393

Most DJ's pretty much fill that role. Eg David Guetta. He writes the music, programs it, and gets an artist to do the vocals. But people buy "his" albums, even though most of the actual musical work is done by others. Pitbull is a lesser example, as most of his music is actually collaborations with other artists, under his name. – Lu22 – 2017-01-03T06:30:47.410

how are you getting past copyright infringement of the lyrics? – Keltari – 2017-01-03T09:55:28.283

That's the case of classical music IRL. Likewise “show tunes” and opera. I have 3 different recordings of South Pacific, several with overlapping American Standards, multiple interpretations of the Pines of Rome… – JDługosz – 2017-01-03T10:43:13.383

«music and lyrics writers to become at least as rich and famous as performers.» What, Andrew Lloyd Webber isn’t rich enough to qualify? – JDługosz – 2017-01-03T11:10:41.983

What immediately comes to my mind is the song "Hallelujah", written by the recently deceased Leonard Cohen. It's been recorded probably hundreds of times in recent years by a variety of performers, but isn't strongly associated with any particular singer. It's rare for a song to enter the public consciousness that way, but it does happen once in a while. – Charles Burge – 2017-01-03T23:56:24.443

Not a pop music expert, but I think a lot of Bob Dylan songs were (are?) better known for their performances by any number of other people. And then there's "Stairway to Heaven"... – jamesqf – 2017-01-04T03:54:39.847

Answers

3

You are basically describing opera (or other classical music). The composer, the librettist and the performer are clearly separate, and there are two separate fame-axes: one for the performer, one for the authors.

So, just keep opera popular, or let opera be more open to popular trends, so that the "low class" popular music never evolves separately.

Radovan Garabík

Posted 2017-01-03T06:19:07.960

Reputation: 7 561

I know, but I want it to work with “modern” music, even punk rock. – Crissov – 2017-01-03T10:36:47.100

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@Crissov Punk rock opera is a thing...

– Radovan Garabík – 2017-01-03T12:17:08.927

3

As several have noted, this is in fact the normal state of affairs for some generes. I think the association of pop music with a specific performance is a rather recent phenomenon. How might that not have happened?

First, look at things like “show tunes”. The emphasis is on live performances and it’s a large scale collaboration. The lead singer and conductor change independently several timee during the original run, and then multiple troupes perform it on different tours.

Eventually people do release recordings, but the song is already famous before the specific recording makes the rounds. After a while they become “American Standards” associated with a composer, not a specific artist.

Maybe the culture is such that most interesting music comes from this, and songs produced in isolation are generally deemed empty of context.

Second, the music publishing industry might have went down a different road. They could release the same composition with different performances as a matter of course. There could be different market segments distinguished by geographical region, ethnic groups, age, or other factors. Make it other than geographical so the segments are mixed. Then, it makes sence that they make a point of releasing the same song to different segments rather than totally different pieces, so it serves as a unifying influence and drives cross-segment sales.

Some of the market segments may still have a culture of live music and local favorite performers. The publisher sells the sheet music and other tie-ins, not just a recording. People hear the recording on the radio and also the same popular songs on the street and in local gatherings.

Finally, composers may intend for different performers to put their own interpretation on the song. When a song is popular, different performers will compete with the same song.

In short, ensure that popular music (whatever it sounds like) still has essential characteristics that orchestra, opera, and musical-play has.

JDługosz

Posted 2017-01-03T06:19:07.960

Reputation: 65 028

How would I make this the reasonable default for all kinds of music? Do I have to kill recorded music, live television, intercontinental flight, the Beatles …? It still happens that a song is rereleased in a different (either more local or more global) language, although this was more frequently done in the past. Today, a “cover” or “remix” version is more likely. I want to make multiple versions normal for a 3min recorded track, but it seems more natural for a 3h live opera. – Crissov – 2017-01-03T23:40:15.017

1How: culture of the customers, policy and actions of the publishers. The consumer hears a particular “sound” and instead of thinking that the song must sound that exact way, wants to try variations and different interpretations. how is exactly what I speculate on in this post. – JDługosz – 2017-01-03T23:43:31.560

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That kind of could occur if the bands would not be the ones idolized. Idolization gives the bands leverage, because they are the key resource that makes money for the producers. It is not only about the money, because intellectual property rights can easily turn it around; the fame is the problem.

It is about culture. At the time of Mozart and such, the performer was only an instrument, so it is not a far fetched idea. One thing to change is that the people would need to respect the music intellectually. They must respect the ideas behind the music and see performer as a mean to consume music.

It could be that people should be generally more technically aware. If they valued pure perfect voices that are exactly the right tone over the ones ruined with tobacco and alcohol, that are often associated with the more rock side of the performers. If the audience would prefer performers technically over another; they could easily agree that an another performer is better. It would not remove the effect of liking a voice, so there is still need for many performers.

That is only one way I see this could happen. Some other things that turn the performer an instrument may work as well.

user3644640

Posted 2017-01-03T06:19:07.960

Reputation: 1 754

Technique is not the best way to go I would say, because even in that area people have purely personal preferences : for example many people acknowledge that growling is actually a technical style, some people simply don't like rapping even though it can be most impressive, etc. Even if you only consider people liking the same style of music, how do you evaluate objectively the technical performance ? You should have some kind of consensus about that (good luck with that) – Riff – 2017-01-03T08:48:22.733

It does not need to be completely objective. They need a reason to see the performers as filters and not be obsessed by some special filters but the original source. Somehow they need to value the unfiltered more than the filter. Why would they not value the thing they listen, but the person that invented it somewhere else and made someone else to sing. Seeing behind the filter can be gained with technical knowledge, I assume. – user3644640 – 2017-01-03T08:58:46.937

I think that interpretation, so purely non-objective choices, play a great deal in the appreciation of a piece. Especially if you consider western classical music where rythm notations (italian markings) are typically very loose so the same song can be played a two different speeds without any version being objectively wrong, however there will be people "taking sides". – Riff – 2017-01-03T09:05:32.057

That already is the case! Judy Garland, Linda Rhonstat, and Natile Cole all have the same “American Standards” which are associated with the composer not a specific performer. – JDługosz – 2017-01-03T10:45:24.623

And I was listening to “The Moldau” on Christmas CD and found it plodding and thick, not like the recording that made it a favorite of mine. And one of my first CDs was Robert Shaw and no other performance of Beethoven's 9th “does it” for me. – JDługosz – 2017-01-03T10:54:43.850

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I don't really see that you've any explaining to do!

The only problem you face is in that currently in the pop-music industry, the front-man/woman is valued, and they are the product that is sold. This is a usually good-looking person with personality and a good voice who performs the songs, who people will pay money to go and see. e.g. a difficulty would arise if the writer were to put on a concert as they might have different performers for each song - logistically difficult and expensive. Therefore the performer becomes the "owner" of the song in the public's eyes at least.

However with only a small change in culture, it's not at all insurmountable. Take the film industry - the leading-man or leading-lady would be like the front-man, but nowadays, the director is regarded as much as the lead actor. Pulp Fiction features Samuel L. Jackson and is directed by Quentin Tarantino - both are big names, equally associated with the film (in fact in this case the director is even more associated with it).

It's all about the brand, and pop-music promoters just happen to use the performer for the brand at the moment. But if a writer were to have several successful songs "by" different performers, they could be used as the brand just as much - giving interviews, releasing albums (with different performers), and soon you would have a cultural shift just as you have with films. As for putting on concerts, well you mightn't want to have many performers at a single concert, but perhaps a tour of concerts would have different bands (e.g. local talent) play at each one. (The writer might still have to M.C. or something to show face though.)

colmde

Posted 2017-01-03T06:19:07.960

Reputation: 7 620

Like Beethoven, Irvirg Berlin, Gershwin, Rogers&Hammerstein, Gilbert&Sulliven,… – JDługosz – 2017-01-03T11:08:52.927

1All you really need to do is have radio stations announce the writer/composer along with the performer. As it is almost all you ever hear is the performer. once people can make connections between composers they like everything else takes care of itself. You do see that for covers but if they did it with every song composers would quickly gain popularity. – John – 2017-01-03T23:02:09.417

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Who was lead violin for the opening night of Beethoven's 9th?

The fact that I can't even refer to the symphony without referring to the composer of said symphony kind of seals the deal. Even the biggest performers of previous eras, pianists like Rachmaninoff and Liszt are only remembered today for their compositions, and not for their performances. People like Bach, Wagner, and Beethoven never performed as musicians, they wrote and directed.

As others have mentioned, operas and musicals are another genre where the composer is remembered, but in that case the performers were probably at least as famous at the time. Puccini is mostly remembered to day for Tosca, but at the time at least as many people knew Hariclea Darclee, the Romanian soprano who headlined it. She even has her own Wikipedia page (Beethoven's lead violin does not)

So any sort of ensemble production would make for a famous composer, but musical productions without solo voice performances would make for an exclusively famous composer.

kingledion

Posted 2017-01-03T06:19:07.960

Reputation: 81 061

For pop music, I guess, this would mean that albums were released by composers and tracks could be played by any band or sung by any singer. @Lu22 mentioned this concept for DJs. I want that, but also many different interpretations of each song. Maybe I’ll go with printed score and lyrics being much cheaper than prerecorded or broadcast music – or with different legal foundations, e.g. lack of copyright restrictions. – Crissov – 2017-01-03T23:48:46.647

1@Crissov I think that culturally emphasizing the ensemble nature of music is important. If people appreciated drummers more, and if bands had more instruments than just guitars and drums, then the composer would be more important. – kingledion – 2017-01-03T23:53:06.217

Don't know about Wagner, but both (J.S.) Bach and Beethoven were performers first. Bach was better known as an organist than a composer during his life, while Beethoven first gained recognition as a pianist, and performed his own early works. – jamesqf – 2017-01-04T03:45:55.883

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Communism

Well, a powerful centralized Socialist state, anyway. You want to hit these aspects:

Copyright protection is weak or non-existent

In a communist country, all production was owned by the state, including creative works. So there was no issue of authors defending "their" work from others. Neither can authors/composers claim royalties when others reuse their work, because income that does not come from labor (such as interest earned on investment, or collecting license fees) is capitalism, and is forbidden.

This allows any performer to perform any piece of music, and any lyrics. Being sued is not in the cards. But to make sure you credit the original author and composer, you need...

An emphasis on collective achievement, and crediting everyone

If you have a single diva performer, that's all everyone is going to know about. An ethic of downplaying the role of any one individual ensures that the names of all contributors are known. Sharing is caring.

It also helps if the state oversees the composition of bands for performances. They might pluck well-known people from other venues (such as a famous poet) and say "write the lyrics for a song that will be played at such and such an event."

And as long as your state is pushing people around, you can't go wrong with...

Limited range of discourse, limited audience

There are a few ways this can help you. Many powerful states focus on their own, unique culture and tradition - so even a punk rock band might take up a famous folk song or theme and remix or reinterpret it (this happens pretty much all the time in metal). Creating music for your own country can also rely on memes and references that don't exist elsewhere, once again encouraging the reuse of entities you can expect your audience to know already. And finally, the established canon is something that's already been approved by state censors, so you can reduce the amount of trouble you might run into with the police for your subversive performances!

SPavel

Posted 2017-01-03T06:19:07.960

Reputation: 6 109

note that there are multiple levels of header available in the markup. Don’t fake headers using an all-bold paragraph — the CSS makes them different. – JDługosz – 2017-01-03T23:00:59.747

I’d rather the solution applied world-wide, but this may work in principle. – Crissov – 2017-01-03T23:54:04.853

@JDługosz I know this, but the smaller headers are not noticeably smaller than the large ones, so it's not very convincing. The fake ones look better. – SPavel – 2017-01-04T15:03:55.207

There’s a feedback thread on [meta] about the new site design. I agree they could improve the different levels in ways that don’t make the top levels too large. Note that it still gets updated and how it looks a year from now may be different. So use the proper semantic markup. – JDługosz – 2017-01-04T21:35:07.250