OverworkedTechydude:
Thoughts:
Have you been to: http://www.openvms.org or http://h71000.www7.hp.com
What was the software that the client wanted restored, or files recovered from? Unless I am wrong VAX/VMS is equivalent to saying Dell Poweredge/Windows 2013 Server and is less relevant to the actual request that the client is asking.
I remember the VAX/VMS from college. You might try a local university if you have one in your area to see if anyone in their IT department is still around that worked on the VMS systems. It could be fun for that person and you might learn alot.
Was it 'usenet newsgroups' that we used to use for help on things like this? It makes more sense to me that you should ask this on an older system. If the newsgroup is still alive you have a better chance at reaching more the guys that worked on VAX/VMS on a daily basis.
Some places to start:
- comp.os.vms
- vmsnet.pdp-11
- alt.sys.pdp8
- alt.sys.pdp11
- de.comp.os.vms
Goodwill in Texas at one point took computers as donations. Some of the shops actually have a computer store. You might try calling these guys to see if they have parts:
Answer to #4:
Have you tried contacting HP to see if they offer data extraction services for the TK70 disk? And even more important a data conversion service. If we are talking about software backups that are stored on that disk, retrieving the files to a CD or flash drive will be useless to you if the files must be read by the micro VAX for the program to process the data. If HP is still supporting a legacy system chances are that they can perform a data extraction so that it can be used on modern systems.
Use a TK70 Disk tape drive? If the tape has data they need get the client to purchase a used tape drive from ebay and hook it up to the old vax machine to read the tape. (if that is still possible) Just pray it doesn't chew up the tape.
- Seach ebay: "digital TK70 Disk / Tape Drive, RD53-DA, RD54 Chassis"
Or just ask on comp.os.vms if anyone has a TK70 disk drive that is still working and if you could mail them the tape and have then perform a data extraction for you. Unless vibration and heat will destroy the tape.
HP bought Compaq that bought DEC. This technology comes from an age where patents and copyright protected hardware so that you wouldn't have 3rd party devices without some kind of lawsuit. I believe this is also before the age where we shipped manufacturing to China so there isn't likely to be any help from that angle.
More information on the legacy TK70 disk:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.sys.pdp11/xDbJzS9CJKs/sG7IPnTqviUJ
HP talks more about the TK70 disk
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6136/6136pro_010.html#tape_compatibility
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_0996.html
Creating a VM for VAX/VMS
Here is a link to another post on the exchange that may assist in getting a VM up and running if you think that having an alternate environment to break and try commands in is a good idea. (I do).
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13432375/how-can-i-set-up-a-vms-vm-environment
There is also an interesting discussion on google groups on the subject:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.vms/XXr12jKPskE
And more here:
http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/640
According to this document OpenVMS on a VM may allow for TCP/IP (if that helps)
http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html
Important parts that I distilled from the conversations
- a hobbyist license is needed to install it ( http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Hobbyist )
- At least three companies exist to assist with legacy VAX/VMS. Some even offer free software for simulated environments. You might try contacting their support.
- Stromasys
- Migration Specialties
- AVTware
- Quayle Comsulting Group works with Stronasys ( http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html )
- there is system spec information here that could be useful
- VAX/VMS emulator platform links (Virtual Machine emulation possible in some cases/VM-WARE)
- OS X / linux
- Windows
- Linux
- Commercial
(thank you Peter Hofman, and Craig A. Berry and everyone else who contributed to those posts)
Personal thoughts:
The inner geek in me begs the question if one could create an emulated environment on your good machines and connect to the old hardware using a type of rs232 connection and then transfer over all the good files to the emulation environment, thus allowing for a copy of the original as well as a stable environment for them to run in temporarily until they decide where to go. Perhaps pull out the legacy pc hardware if you still have a pentium hanging around or buy a modern PCI rs232 port and try to see if the VM can add it to the connected peripherals to allow communication?
At least then if you had a copy of the content you could execute commands in the simulated environment without having to worry about damaging the original. And in many cases the emulated environments offer a bridge to allow moving files to and from the newer hardware. Though I would expect they want the data and not the files. If they want the data I would suggest looking into a way to export the data from the VMS application into a modern format while still in VMS. There seems to be mysql for openvms ( http://hg.vmsmysql.org ) but I cannot see any documentation for it. This suggests full data migration is possible.
A long shot but perhaps someone from DECUS could help? ( http://www.decus.org )
-Light Man
1I was going to suggest that you strip the drive, connect it to a different working computer, and copy the files to a different drive on that working computer, but theres so many reasons why that doesn't work in this case. – Ben Franchuk – 2014-07-14T05:47:20.000
xmodem or similar might be able to transfer files out by minicom with a vt220 emulation mode. Provided you can get an rs232 port and nullmodem to get it to speak to your PC. – mgjk – 2014-07-21T15:14:32.463
1I'm a bit shocked - I would probably jump through the ceiling in suprise if I saw one of those brought in by a customer. And I agree that a vt220 emulator through RS232 might be a good option. – Wyatt8740 – 2014-07-21T15:41:45.027
Moved Nick's answer to comment: "Question: If it's "dead" how do you propose to boot it to gain access to the network, etc.? In what state is the actual system? I presume there's power otherwise you wouldn't be investigating access methods, but I can't be sure." – Jan Doggen – 2014-07-24T18:24:34.943
Question: If it's "dead" how do you propose to boot it to gain access to the network, etc.? In what state is the actual system? I presume there's power otherwise you wouldn't be investigating access methods, but I can't be sure. – Nick – 2014-07-24T18:13:32.533
"Dead" was how it was described to me. Currently I can boot into the OS but I cannot mount the drive with the files on it. The OS sees the drive but wont mount it or allow me to navigate it at all. – OverworkedTechydude – 2014-07-25T15:30:11.957
I would offer an answer but I don't even know what OS this uses. – Wyatt8740 – 2014-07-27T23:31:48.480
So you can log in? What are you trying that lets you see the drive, but won't mount it? What is the error message? Have you tried mount/override=id <disk_device_name> ? – Jamie Hanrahan – 2014-08-10T20:06:37.237
@Wyatt8740 It used either VMS or UNIX according to Wiki. AFAICT, the only one of those which supported DECnet was VMS. – krowe – 2014-08-26T12:11:08.077
11call a museum for parts ;) – Keltari – 2014-03-12T21:59:51.387
1Did that. But seriously I have the MMJ to DB adapter ordered and a V220 terminal ready to go. I just need some guidance on what to do once it gets here. I'd like to create a drive image and then try to get the files off after that. – OverworkedTechydude – 2014-03-12T22:05:33.493
1Ok. I have it up and running but it's asking for a password. I have no idea what to put here. The clerk said she doesn't remember what it was and they've left company that installed it (Progress, INC). Any ideas? It's running VMS 5.3 – OverworkedTechydude – 2014-03-17T21:27:41.147
1http://bak.spc.org/dms/archive/vaxsys.html – Antony – 2014-05-05T08:55:05.910
5You are on the right track to try to get DECnet working on the machine. The likelihood it will support TCP/IP is slim. Also bear in mind that the switch port will need to be set to 10Mbps and the duplex set to match, since the ethernet interface won't support autonegotiation.
Trying to mount the drives is going to be a non-starter. The only way it would be possible would be to configure a VAX machine with DSSI and install a UNIX on it. But even then, the disk image is probably not going to do you any good, with the ODS-2 file system.
I have a large pile of VAXen and I will try to help. – Tripp Kinetics – 2014-05-19T13:10:48.557
Oh, and an early DLT drive should be able to read tapes written with the TK70 format. – Tripp Kinetics – 2014-05-19T13:15:24.617
4
And to be able to break the password, check out http://www.openvms.org/faqs/OpenVMS-Hack-FAQ.html Look for the section entitled "Physical Console Bypassing".
– Tripp Kinetics – 2014-05-19T13:19:26.717those ancient machines can communicate through RJ-45 port? – phuclv – 2014-06-16T05:25:08.353
Kinda, I have an adapter that allows it to. But it's using DECNet. So at this point I'm out of ideas. I'd like to get some set up that allows me to run dd on that drive. – OverworkedTechydude – 2014-06-17T14:08:26.783