SSD that doesn't need to utilize OS TRIM support to minimize degredation?

3

There has been a lot of development towards improving TRIM integration for OS's but I am in need of a solution to SSD integrated TRIM.

I've looked through pages of SSD's on newegg.com and some mention "TRIM support", others "OS TRIM", and some don't mention TRIM at all.

I plan to use the SSD in a PS3 which would offer no form of OS based TRIM support so I've been looking for one that supports it via firmware (self-maintained) or doesn't need that maintenance done. I haven't been able to find one that explicitly mentioned self-maintained in the details so the answer to that must be hidden elsewhere perhaps in the technology?

With that in mind, what level of technology do I require for my application? The goal is to have the least level of degradation with no OS TRIM support required. Is there a niche for this? I would think that would be the the desirable direction eventually.

From: http://www.hardcoreware.net/ssd-on-ps3-performance-guide/

Some drives, such as the Kingston V100 series, have their own firmware-based TRIM-like functionality. This is independent of the OS, so it would not require manual garbage collection.

There are only V300 series available (at least on newegg) and they mention nothing about TRIM.

Also related (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/289314-32-trim-important):

The reason that the SSD cannot send itself the TRIM command is that the TRIM command requires proper understanding of the file system and which logical blocks are actually free as opposed to which have useful data on them. It is technically possible for SSD controller manufacturers to create an SSD controller with full knowledge of the NTFS, HFS+, EXT2+ file systems but this is unnecessary when there's already a computer attached to it that's going to be doing all the same work already just to perform routine filesystem maintenance.

Enigma

Posted 2013-02-22T17:06:52.083

Reputation: 3 181

Do SSDs need OS support? I'm pretty sure all SSDs work with e.g. Windows XP, which has no TRIM support... – user541686 – 2013-02-22T17:17:51.337

From what I understand they don't require it but it greatly improves SSD life and function. (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2010/02/04/windows-7-ssd-performance-and-trim/1) - I rephrased the question.

– Enigma – 2013-02-22T17:25:49.340

1This older question of mine dealt with a similar problem. Back then, it was simply called "garbage collection". Maybe the links there can help you. – Daniel Beck – 2013-02-22T17:30:55.913

1@Enigma: TRIM only affects write performance. It won't affect SSD life. – David Schwartz – 2013-02-22T17:35:55.707

That is nevertheless degradation that I'd like to have prevented or minimized as much as possible. I wouldn't be able to take it out and run TRIM commands via an OS since the drive is entirely encrypted. – Enigma – 2013-02-22T17:41:18.257

@DanielBeck: I found this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227939 based off that article that seems promising. Not sure what "Native TRIM support" means exactly though.

– Enigma – 2013-02-22T17:45:49.907

@David: with no TRIM commands coming from the OS, most drives will perform background collecting and consolidation of pages within blocks, which will result in additional write amplification and drive wear. So, a modern SSD will last less on a system without TRIM, although it's hard to tell by how much (mostly full drives will be affected the most). – Groo – 2013-03-05T20:14:59.967

@Enigma: that TRIM-like firmware functionality is simply background collection, and has a goal of improving write performance by increasing drive wear. On an OS without TRIM support, a drive doesn't know which blocks are not in use by the file system, so it means that some blocks can be unnecessarily moved around many times. That's why they call it "write amplification". – Groo – 2013-03-05T20:20:51.893

@Groo: It's hard to imagine that could be significant. – David Schwartz – 2013-03-05T20:22:44.667

@David: Well, all it takes is to fill the drive just once (you copy a bunch of DVD files or VM disks, and then you immediately delete them). And deleting on a non-TRIM OS, means merely changing a couple of bytes in the FAT/MBR, instead of telling the drive exactly what got deleted. After that, you are left with a drive which thinks almost all of its blocks are full, and that's a killer for wear leveling algorithms. – Groo – 2013-03-05T20:39:15.670

Answers

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TRIM is actually a function of the IO scheduler which is why Windows was pretty much alone in not supporting TRIM (the IO scheduler is not selectable/configurable in MS OSs). No consumer level SSD is available that issues TRIM commands in firmware. There are a couple designed for enterprise RAID configurations that do so, but are priced well over $1000 each. You are much better off choosing an SSD that has very aggressive garbage collection. Ones I know:

  • All SSDs based on the Intel G2 on-disk controller
  • Kingston Drives in the V100+ and V300+ series (not V100, V300, or V330)

There are probably others, but I don't know of any by name. You may be better off with an alternative option:

  1. Hack your PS3. There are modified PS3 OS's available that include TRIM support.
  2. Go Hybrid. This is probably the best option. All hybrid drives perform wear leveling and cell clearing in firmware. It's not quite as fast as SSD, but performance will not degrade. The caching algorithms are particularly well suited to PS3 use.

OCDtech

Posted 2013-02-22T17:06:52.083

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Asked: 2013-02-22T17:06:52.083

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