UPS on DC lines

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How could a UPS switch between battery and AC wall socket fast from around 4 ms to 12 ms. What make it especial to switch in that very low time. As far as I know it has relays inside it to perform the switching action, but the relay itself can't switch as fast. I am asking this because I need something to switch between 2 DC lines and I tried multiple 12 V DC relays to 30 amps ones and my devices still has to switch off or to reboot once the main DC power source cutt so the backup can't keep up.

I have a DC power system and AC one. The DC works as the backup batteries and the AC is the city power which I don't care about consumed watts from it, but what I care about is every watt from my batteries as 70% of time I am on batteries.

I have a mini DC gaming rig with 60 watts GTX 1060 and low powered I3 8th gen and my total consumption is around 110 watts per hour. The PC is meant to work on battery systems as his input voltage is from 6 to 36 voltage wide input range and can use 250 watts max components. I already own an AC to DC 12 V adpater 300 watts to power it up, but I don't want it to switch off every time I lose the city power suddenly and I would like to keep it on so I bought a bunch of relays to switch between the AC to DC 12 V adapter and the 12 V battery system but none of them worked properly so I refunded them as the PC has to shutdown or restart at every power switching.

Note that of course I won't use inverter, switch the internal power supply to another AC power supply and use normal UPS to increase my power consumption to double of what I already have..... so please don't suggest AC stuff

Islam Ghunym

Posted 2020-01-24T19:40:51.053

Reputation: 21

Question was closed 2020-01-28T09:45:59.837

I'm sure there must be a good question in here somewhere, but I'm struggling to find it through the 'blog post'. It would appear to be 'how do I keep my UPS working when most of the time it has no mains supply?' to which the answer would be 'get a bigger UPS'… but I'm not sure if that's really it... – Tetsujin – 2020-01-24T19:49:03.230

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In my opinion this question would better suite to https://electronics.stackexchange.com

– Robert – 2020-01-24T19:57:32.430

Answers

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Answer you don't switch AT all. You connect the battery and AC/DC converter at the same time. The battery is constantly being charged so discharge is not a problem.

If you feel like it you can add a couple diodes to prevent back flow of electricity from the PC to the battery. In fact you could add 2 sets of diodes, but its probably over kill.

The battery power is ON 100% of the time so there should be 0 switching time.

This is a simplified version of how online/inline UPS work that have no switching time.

cybernard

Posted 2020-01-24T19:40:51.053

Reputation: 11 200

@IslamGhunym I don't know the exact wiring or what safety mechanism are in place, but online/inline UPS do something similar all the time. – cybernard – 2020-01-24T20:22:50.763

The battery, charger and the PC should not be connected constantly together for a couple of reasons 1-deep cycle Gel batteries are charged with smart multiple phase charger that decide to put different amps and voltages depending on the battery state so having a device connected to it will mess up the multiple charging process 2- the bulk charge should not exceed 12.5% of total batteris capacity and having a PC that takes from 0 to 10 amps constantly will force me to raise the bulk charging amps with around 14 amps more then change that according to my consumption so this is not ideal way – Islam Ghunym – 2020-01-24T20:32:09.807

The ideal ways is probably to get an online/inline UPS that is prepackaged UL tested and etc. – cybernard – 2020-01-24T20:39:00.400

Will that work on my batteries? Or it will come with it's own power? If you are in my situation and when your home is powered 70% of time by batteries then you will have to consider budget in mind as I already own a thouroghly optimized system for long time work that I switch every 7 years. I pay wealth for that so I won't consider any other UPS that uses it's own batteries as I will have to switch the batteies every month. I also wont buy any battery I don't need – Islam Ghunym – 2020-01-24T20:45:57.353

If you buy a commercial UPS it will have its own. If you DIY using the same kind of circuit you can use your own batteries. Obviously resistors and so forth may have to be swapped out to get the correct charging voltage for your batteries. You will probably need to ask those kind of questions on the electronics.stackexchange.com – cybernard – 2020-01-24T20:55:06.780

@IslamGhunym If you can get a power supply that has a voltage well above 12 volts, then you can combine it with the battery using diodes. Whenever the AC is on, the voltage will be so high that no current will be drawn from the battery (because the diode from the battery to the PC will be reverse biased due to the higher voltage from the AC supply) and the battery can charge undisturbed by the load from the PC. – David Schwartz – 2020-01-28T09:41:17.343

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The reason a UPS switches over "fast enough" is exactly that it switches the AC side: The PSU in your PC is a switching power supply, this means, that it stores a significant amount of energy in itself.

Desktop power supplies are typically designed to store enough energy, that loss of a single half-wave on the input side will not cause interruption of the DC output. Server power supplies are usually designed with double that, so that loss of full wave on the input side doesn't cause an interruption on the DC output - this is because server PSUs are usually used as redundant pairs and the survival interval of half a wave must be achievable as well if the server runs on only one PSU.

UPSes are designed to need less than a half-wave for switchover (less than 10ms on 50Hz), so the amount of energy stored in the PSU comfortably bridges the gap caused by the UPS switchover.

On the DC side, there is no such survival interval - even a bloss of DC for a few NS will cause a malfunction, so not even the fastest relais will be able to switch. In addition to that, the PSU supplies a digital "Power Good" signal to the Motherboard, which will go inactive even if an alternative DC source is available.

To overcome this, you need (at least) to:

  • Add survival capacity to the DC side (normally by capacitators)
  • Rewire your "Power Good" signal to keep active if the alternative power is available (if your motherboard doesn't ignore it as many consumer boards do)

This is very intrusive, so you might consider using a double-conversion system, either a prebuilt UPS or a DIY version: The losses from double conversion have been greatly reduced with newer microcontroller-based inverters. This gives you the option of not being picky about your PC, Display etc. components.

Eugen Rieck

Posted 2020-01-24T19:40:51.053

Reputation: 15 128