View Full Version : PETN INTO SEMTEX
Mekap
May 31st, 2001, 06:38 AM
PETN can be used to manufacture explosive paper or anywhere else that a powerful, sensitive explosise is desirable.
MATERIALS:
Nitric acid
Pentaerythritol
Lye
Acetone
Glass or ceramic container
Thermometer
Pan
Salt/water/ice mix
Cloth
Buckets
Bowls
PROCEDURE:
1. Place 1,400 militres of nitric acid in the bowl and cool to 18degrees celcius with the salt/water/ice mix (ice bath).
2. Slowly add 1 lb.(pound) pentaerythritol while stirring gently, not allow the temperature to go above 23degrees celcius. If it does, stop the flow of pentaerythritol and stir gently until the temperature drops. Resume flow.
3. Continue to stir for 20 minutes more, keeping the temperature at 23degrees celcius.
4. Pour the acid into a bucket filled with 6 litres of cold water.
5. Filter precipitated crystals through cloth and wash them with 10 litres of water with 2oz of lye mixed in. Wash again with water.
6. Heat 3 litres of acetone to 50degrees celcius by very carefully placing a bowl of it in a hot water bath.
7. Add crystals to acetone while stirring until all the crystals have been dissolved.
8. Pour the acetone mix into 10 litres of water; PETN crystals will precipitate out.
9. Filter through cloth, store dried crystals in a tightly covered container in a cool dry place. Protect from shock and friction.
cutefix
May 31st, 2001, 06:51 AM
Mekap, it looks interesting.I would ask if I make that PETN into semtex do I have to add RDX with plasticisers just as the Czechs or othe eastern European manufacturers do?Some recommend that to manufacture plastique from it they add polyisobutylene,ethyl hexyl sebacate.What can you recommend for your particular brand of Semtex?
Mekap
May 31st, 2001, 07:46 AM
Semtex is a powerful plastic explosive that is more sensitive than, and can be used as a replacement for, military C4 No.8 blasting cap should be used for optimum performance.
MATERIALS:
RDX high explosive
PETN high explosive
Vegetable oil
Measuring device(cup, spoon, etc)
Wooden dowel or spoon for stirring
Rolling pin
Wooden board or hard surface
Bowl
Wax paper or plastic wrap
PROCEDURE:
1. Place a small amount of RDX crystals on a wooden block or hard countertop. Using a rolling pin, crush the crystals into a fine powder, having the consistency of flour.
CAUTION: Use the rolling pin only, not a block of wood. It is important to crush the crystals rather than using friction between two rubbing surfaces.
2. Repeat process until desired amount of RDX has been pwdered. Then using the same process, powder the same amount of PETN.
3. Mix 9 parts of RDX and 9 equal parts of PETN in a jar and shake for 5 minutes.
4. Pour the RDX/PETN mixture into a bowl and add 2 equal parts of vegetable oil (this is what give comercial semtex its color). Stir vigorously until a uniform paste is obtained.
5. Semtex can be used immediately for any task requiring a high explosive. If it is to be stored, however mold the semtex into a brick and place it in the middle of a square piece of wax paper and wrap tightly and seal with adhesive tape to keep brick airtight.
6. Store in a cool, dry place. The explosive should have an almost unlimited shelflife but will lose its plastic properties after a while.
Note: In general, it is always preferable to mix explosives just before use to avoid the problems and dangers of storage.
cutefix
May 31st, 2001, 08:12 AM
Mekap,this is nice formulation and very easy to make if all the materials are available.I was thinking that we could not have the luxury of preparing or procuring the ingredients and making it as needed ;I would prefer to make this explosive and store it as needed.Yet the problem of storability is probably due to uneven crystalline size of the explosive component.I think adding some emulsifier like lecithin will minimize the formation of uneven crystal size that might form during storage,what do you think.I plan to heat it with the vegetable oil to disperse it.It may affect the color a bit and may add some oily, rancid like smell,for I will use the crude lecithin that is easily available.Still I think that your formula for semtex is simple to make,and I like it!Thank You!
Mekap
May 31st, 2001, 07:35 PM
Yes there is definately a problem there. Even the commercially avialable Semtex, is known to bleed its plasticizer over time. I also read a news article about a secruity officer at Heathrow airport in England, a lady pushing a pram had made through nearly all of the airports secruity. She basically had to board the plane, and this particular officer had noticed a small oil patch on the outside of her bag. Knowing the tell tale signs of semtex I guess curiosity took over.
As he searched the bag, he found enough Semtex to take take down the plane connected to an altimeter switch. The lady had claimed that she was completely unaware of the device, as her boyfriend packed her bags. I would just store the explosive mixed in a jar, and maybe a day or so before use add vegetable oil.
cutefix
May 31st, 2001, 10:35 PM
I was thinking about this exudation matter for sometime;how about if we replace this ordinary vegetable oil(salad oil) with a partially hardened vegetable oil(iodine valueof say around 110 or lower) or if we have to add tallow flakes or hardened cottonseed oil just as what they do in vegetable shortening processing.With a higher melting point fat it will presumably minimize if not eliminate this exudation.Anyway the explosives component have a higher melting point(PETN=140 C,RDX >200 C).Then by adding about .5% lecithin to the fat blend surely we can eliminate the formation of heterogeneous crystal sizes of the explosive.
Mekap
June 1st, 2001, 01:17 AM
Good suggestion, how about petroluem jelly or motor oil? I know vegetable oil has a lot to do with the fact that Semtex is often overlooked at airports etc.
Mr Cool
June 1st, 2001, 06:23 PM
Why not just use the mineral oil and lecithin plasticiser, as used in C-1? I'm assuming you're not actually gonna blow up a aeorplane, so smell won't be a problem.
Ezikiel
July 8th, 2001, 05:40 PM
Hey guys ... How about using TNT or TNB TNX etc as a plasticizer .. which everone is more mouldable of the waxy secondary explosives. I know (60% RDX + 40% TNT) Cyclotol to be very powerful .... 4 Mega pounds per square inch on detonation. And Torpex being probably the most powerful non nuclear explosive (used in torpedo warheads)
is a mixture of RDX + TNT + Al(dust)
------------------
"Go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY"
kingspaz
July 8th, 2001, 07:02 PM
is it possible to dissolve vegetable oil in petrol? if so you could dissolve vaseline or wax in petrol then the vegetable oil then add the PETN and RDX. you could then leave the petrol to evapourate resulting in a similar explosive but with less tendancy to 'leak'. addition of lecithin will stop formation of large unstable crystals.
[This message has been edited by kingspaz (edited July 08, 2001).]
cutefix
August 6th, 2001, 12:54 AM
Vegetable Oil and petrol are both nonpolar therefore they can mix,however I donot see the need of undergoing these process.I pondered about this particular Semtex formulation, I see some similarity to that patent application by Kistiakowsky in 1943(Ser.495,086).The addition of vegetable fat that was polymerized(hardened), to granular RDX;(about 88% explosive and 12% fat).Then these mixture is passed through a differential roller in order to homogenize the mixture and at the same time reducing the particle size of the crystalline explosive.With these uniform particle size,it will result in a more pliable mass (plastic explosive)formed from that machining step. Without that mechanical refining the resulting explosive could just end like a thick gravy.I,m certain that during that time they were not able to perfect in obtaining the proper granulation of cyclonite with their crude manufacturing process for that explosive.Therefore this formulation is not the real semtex but an analogue,and could possibly be improvised if you have to use a very fine uniformly granulated crystalline explosive like PETN or RDX,then mixing it with petrolatum or plastic vegetable fat(shortening) of desired consistency.But still it has limited plastic range and could still exude fluid if exposed to warmer conditions.
Hex
August 6th, 2001, 05:26 AM
Semtex isn't likely to be overlooked at airports any more - it's been manufactured with batch specific taggants since 1989. The plasticizer in commercial semtex is styrene-butadiene copolymer. I don't understand the big deal about semtex. There's nothing magic about the formulation, and it's no more powerful than the crude plastics that SOE were using in France 60 years ago.
[This message has been edited by Hex (edited August 06, 2001).]
cutefix
August 7th, 2001, 01:27 AM
I think currently, even explosive ingredients are subject to tagging and that includes possibly the ammonium nitrate which is commonly used in improvised explosives.
Compared to C-4 semtex, is inferior with respect to explosive performance and plasticity.It was popularized I think, by muslim terrorist as the one used in the Lockerbie bombing in Scotland.Yet this powerful explosive will remain popular with underground terrorists for compact explosive devices,and will exist for many years to come as long as the explosive ingredients are available.It will still be improvised;for the purpose to make it plastic and moldable and stable and any suitable binder and dispersing solvent can be used.It is dangerous to use the pure crystalline explosive directly,specially to not so well trained terrorist/suicide bomber so that the explosive will not prematurely detonate if they mishandle it and there is a need to desensetize and stabilize it simply by known easy means…
MightyQuinn®
March 17th, 2004, 09:29 PM
I think currently, even explosive ingredients are subject to tagging and that includes possibly the ammonium nitrate which is commonly used in improvised explosives.
I can verify this. The former :D manufacturer of my exploding targets verified the tagging aspect (for his targets and his quantitiy packs). He advised me to use wisely. ;)
Al Nobel
March 18th, 2004, 06:21 PM
For long term storage I would simply freeze it.
Sonny Jim
March 19th, 2004, 07:15 PM
A little off topic here, but I'm wondering what good Al powder would do to in that torpex stuff mentioned before. Sine TNT and RDX both have -ve OBs...
nbk2000
March 20th, 2004, 01:20 AM
What was being used as taggants? Volatile nitrocarbons, or plastic chips, or what?
I know things like EGDN are used as volatile taggants in military plastic explosives, but that can be removed by chromatography, or simply bypassed by making your own explosives as described herein. :)
bangerman
April 16th, 2005, 01:30 PM
I was wondering what would be the best way to store plasticized petn.I have made just a small 10 g,and it looks the bollox but i,m just a bit worried about how long i can store it it my fridge.Any replies on storage times would be very welcome.
bangerman
April 16th, 2005, 01:30 PM
I was wondering what would be the best way to store plasticized petn.I have made just a small 10 g,and it looks the bollox but i,m just a bit worried about how long i can store it it my fridge.Any replies on storage times would be very welcome.
bangerman
April 16th, 2005, 01:30 PM
I was wondering what would be the best way to store plasticized petn.I have made just a small 10 g,and it looks the bollox but i,m just a bit worried about how long i can store it it my fridge.Any replies on storage times would be very welcome.
grendel23
April 17th, 2005, 05:40 AM
PETN itself is very stable, if reasonably pure and well neutralized. The stability would depend on what you used to plasticize it and how the PETN was prepared.
grendel23
April 17th, 2005, 05:40 AM
PETN itself is very stable, if reasonably pure and well neutralized. The stability would depend on what you used to plasticize it and how the PETN was prepared.
grendel23
April 17th, 2005, 05:40 AM
PETN itself is very stable, if reasonably pure and well neutralized. The stability would depend on what you used to plasticize it and how the PETN was prepared.
xyz
April 17th, 2005, 07:54 AM
I once read about (NewScientist IIRC) a plan to tag AN with 100 micron plastic chips, I don't know if it was ever implemented anywhere.
Seemed pretty silly to me though, as you just need to dissolve it all, filter out the chips with a coffee filter, and re-crystallise to get the "clean" AN.
xyz
April 17th, 2005, 07:54 AM
I once read about (NewScientist IIRC) a plan to tag AN with 100 micron plastic chips, I don't know if it was ever implemented anywhere.
Seemed pretty silly to me though, as you just need to dissolve it all, filter out the chips with a coffee filter, and re-crystallise to get the "clean" AN.
xyz
April 17th, 2005, 07:54 AM
I once read about (NewScientist IIRC) a plan to tag AN with 100 micron plastic chips, I don't know if it was ever implemented anywhere.
Seemed pretty silly to me though, as you just need to dissolve it all, filter out the chips with a coffee filter, and re-crystallise to get the "clean" AN.
Jacks Complete
April 17th, 2005, 09:26 AM
Which you would do before use anyway, as it tends to come as those hard round balls that are almost totally inert, to stop transportation explosions.
Jacks Complete
April 17th, 2005, 09:26 AM
Which you would do before use anyway, as it tends to come as those hard round balls that are almost totally inert, to stop transportation explosions.
Jacks Complete
April 17th, 2005, 09:26 AM
Which you would do before use anyway, as it tends to come as those hard round balls that are almost totally inert, to stop transportation explosions.
Diabolique
August 3rd, 2006, 07:44 PM
I enjoy collecting uranium minerals, and have twice found tags on specimens from the Congo. These looked like 0.1 mm plastic, barrel shaped, crystals that would blow away with a puff of breathe. Other taggants ate prisms - long crystal-like rods - with colored layers that give the code for the manufacturer and lot number.
The best way I found to purify PETN (and RDX) is to dissolve it in acetone, then pour the PETN/acetone rapidly into a large excess of 5% aqueous sodium carbonate (washing soda). This will both neutralize any remaining acid, and produce a fine powder that is nice for making PIPE (81% PETN; 19% motor oil). Add 0.5% lecithin to prevent recrystalization into a solid mass over time, if it isn't to be used right away.
Diabolique
August 3rd, 2006, 07:49 PM
Oops! Sonny Jim mentioned using aluminum in explosive mixtures. Aluminum contributes little to the brisance of the explosive as it reacts to slowly to contribute to the C-J pressure of the explosive. It does add considerably to the air and water blast by reacting with the air or water.
In simple terms, aluminum contributes to the BOOM, not the initial BANG that shatters steel.
FullMetalJacket
August 11th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Seen it before. I think it was in a textfile from theDisease
abouali
August 24th, 2006, 03:05 PM
for more information about PETN,RDX,SEMTEX,HMX
http://www.prvaiskra-namenska.co.yu/eng/eksplozivi.html
meyer25
August 27th, 2006, 01:12 PM
The original Czech Semtex formulas are:
Semtex 1A, for domestic use:
-PETN -- 76%
-RDX -- 4,6%
-plastic matrix (styrene-butadiene caoutchuc) -- 9,4%
-plasticiser: --bis-n-octyl-phtalate+tri-n-butylcitrate 50/50 -- 9%
-antioxidant: --N-phenyl-2-naphtylamine (could be replaced well by diphenylamine): about 0,9%
-colorant: --Sudan IV (red)
-since 1991, identification odorants such as p-nitrotoluene and glycoledinitrate and a trace of metal powder are added.
Semtex H, for export (none of this is exported since 1992):
-PETN -- 40,9%
-RDX -- 41,2%
-styrene-butadiene caoutchuc -- 9,0%
-plasticiser di-n-octylphtalate+tri-n-butylcitrate 50/50 -- 7,9%
-antioxidant, N-phenyl-2-naphtylamine -- 0,9%
-colorant, Sudan I (orange)
Semtex H was largely exported to North Vietnam and thus to Vietcong during the 60s and 70s, also to Libya and middle-east as well as Warsaw Pact countries during 60s-80s. It is somewhat more temperature-stable than Semtex 1A (thou both have a shelf-life of over 20 years in wide range of temperatures and humidity).
Nowadays, Semtex (the more powerful 1A variant, also called Semtex 10) is used only in Czech Republic, the yearly consumption is about 10 tonnes, mainly for reinforced concrete and steel constructions demolitions and for military purposes.
Semtex was never made by adding any vegetable oils or petroleum jelly or vaseline or whatever. It was from beginning made on a plasticised styrene-butadiene copolymer basis.
cutefix
August 27th, 2006, 09:21 PM
Nowadays, Semtex (the more powerful 1A variant, also called Semtex 10) is used only in Czech Republic,
So what is the composition of the so called Semtex 10….similar to PE4 or Comp. 4 plasticque?...made only from Straight RDX?
EDIT...I get it.... basing from the cost difference between RDX and PETN , its likely to contains straight PETN but with a minimal binder content therefore maximizing explosive performance due its higher content of HE but less binder in the same range as C-4 composition.
I presume (there is no way )the manufacturer will use straight RDX for economic reasons
meyer25
August 28th, 2006, 06:32 PM
Semtex 1A is in deed a bit more powerful than comp. C-4, but the difference in effect is not significant. In fact, C-4 is 91% RDX, while Semtex 1A/10 is 91% PETN with a trace RDX, so both are very well comparable.
USE
Semtex is generaly somewhat more sensitive and also easier to initiate than C4 comp., it has also, due to its high PETN content a lower upper limiting diameter of about 3-4mm, so the detonation is propagating a bit more uniformly.
PARAGRAPHS[/b]
Chemical stability is roughly the same, since PETN-based Semtex (which as a nitro-ester is more likely to decompose than nitramine RDX) contents an antioxidant.
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