After watching a NOVA special on epigenetics I looked up an article on rats who had aspects of their personality changed, permenently through the injection of certian chemicals. One group of "well adjusted" were injected to make them more "tense, fearful and prone to stress", look at the article it gives more specifics.

The upshot of this thought is that someone could have their personality permenently changed, with the administration of a drug, and changed for good or ill, who do you want to dose today. :D

Heres the link which should give you a little more information, from their you can see if you can find some of the doctors papers online.

http://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/38/16/genes/

A permanent personality change for the worse with chemicals... its called marijuana, heroin, crack, meth, and too much booze.

A permanent personality change for the worse with chemicals... its called marijuana, heroin, crack, meth, and too much booze.

True, well with meth, crack and smack anyway, but that could take multiple doses, changing epigenetics could work with one dose.

I think "dose" may be a bit too much of a subjective term here. It is key that an epigenetic change cause changes to gene expression that last beyond discontinuation of the dosing schedule, but it might be a bit too much to expect that it be caused by a single administration. Cool, but maybe a bit unrealistic.

Lots of substances will cause personality changes through single, acutely, overdose. Many more will cause changes through chronic use... but most of those aren't really genetic. They are simply toxic in some way shape or form. A lot of things build up to kill off key cells, or through receptors haywire. What we are looking for here is that whole methyl group, gene switch thing. Substances that cause this might not be outright toxic, but a single dose still may not be able to effect a change in a significant portion of the target cell nuclei without adverse effect.

This sort of thing is subtle, and worth the time to make it happen. At least, that's my take on the matter.

I think the technical term for this should be Psychogenic Poison.


psy·cho·gen·ic (sī'kə-jĕn'ĭk) pronunciation adj.

Originating in the mind or in mental or emotional processes; having a psychological rather than a physiological origin. Used of certain disorders.

It may originally have had a physical origin, but since their mental processes are permanently altered for the worse, it seems appropriate, since you're 'poisoned' their psyche. :)

"Once triggered, a group of molecules called a methyl group will attach itself to the control centre of a gene, switching it off completely"

Can't you see where this technology is headed? I know some genetic researchers who are looking for the "psychopath gene". It's only a matter of time until the state turns it off in the populace and turns it on in the cannon fodder. Brave new world indeed.

I know this is a moot point for most of us here since it's already activated, but if you could turn on your own "psychopath gene", would you?

Can't you see where this technology is headed? I know some genetic researchers who are looking for the "psychopath gene". It's only a matter of time until the state turns it off in the populace and turns it on in the cannon fodder. Brave new world indeed.


Well the research was origanlly done on on stress hormone, if that could be completly supressed you could send people into a hail of bullets singing.

I think "dose" may be a bit too much of a subjective term here. It is key that an epigenetic change cause changes to gene expression that last beyond discontinuation of the dosing schedule, but it might be a bit too much to expect that it be caused by a single administration. Cool, but maybe a bit unrealistic.

True it probably wouldn't cause complete change in a single dose, but you have to admit that, once the science had been figured out, almost anything could be done with it, cancers could be induced, organs could be caused to fail, people could have arms made to grow out of their heads (in theory), its quite exciting really.

RATS? RATS!

Do you mean the four-legged or the two-legged variety? Right now, I am suffering from plagues of both types on my property. The four-legged types (rattus rattus or ship-rat and rattus norvegicus or Norway rat) were introduced into New Zealand accidentally from old wooden sailing-ships visiting from the U.K. and France in the late 18th and 19th centuries, starting with Captain James Cook's in 1769; while a smaller and less harmful species, rattus exulans, the Pacific rat, were introduced by Maori for food in the 14th century from the Pacific Islands. The two-legged types of rat, much more damaging than any of the four-legged species, were self-introduced at about the same times.

I am always on the lookout for better ways of killing them, or at least repeling them such as by means of permanent chemical alteration of their personalities. Unfortunately, the law against murder means that only the second method can be used against the two-legged species of rat. I have in the past been forced to buy large amounts of poison-baits containing warfarin and similar halo-coumarin derivatives, but they are grossly overpriced due to the few sources of supply, act rather slowly (taking several days to kill rats), and some rats develop resistance through taking sub-lethal doses. I suppose I could theoretically make quick-acting poison baits using a mixture of cheese, bread, and either cyanide or strychnine, but those poisons are too strictly controlled here to obtain easily.

Permanent change - ah yes. Anyone follow the MPTP story? How about some of the boron compounds which degranulate central norepi neurons long term (maybe permanently)