I would like to know if anyone has attempted AP without using a catalyst such as HCl or sulfuric acid (H2SO4?) and how long it would relatively take without a catalyst. Is this even feasible? Also, after you've made your AP, do any of you refilter the remaining solution after a couple more hours/days to get even more AP, or did i just hear some bullshit?

without a catalyst, how do you expect to get AP/HMTD? :rolleyes:

Generally what I do (simply because my H2SO4 contains additives which make it less sensitive to heat, however they also hurt the performance of the explosive) is let my H2O2:actone:acid mix sit for about 4-5 hours (or until a good layer of AP has formed on the bottom) and then filter out the AP. Well because the additives had settled to the bottom and the AP crystallized on top, I can filter it and then all the additives are gone. This first batch usually only makes about 20-25% of what the final volume will be so I still use it on something recreational (never really bother to make any caps with it). Then I take the filtered liquid and add about a half a teaspoon of the first batch of AP with it (this seems to speed up the reaction a little better) and let it sit for the remaining 10 or so hours. The second batch has none of the original H2SO4 additives!

And as for synthesizing AP without a catalyst would take an extremely long time (assuming that all your acetone doesn't evaporate by then). Because if you make a mix that is supposed to produce about 100g when catalyzed, it will probably make only about 1.5-3g in the same amount of time (if even that).

<small>[ March 21, 2002, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: NoltaiR ]</small>

It is possible but the catalysation process would take many years to complete. Using a mineral acid speeds up the process somewhat :rolleyes:
People who have made their AP with than 30% H2O2, have reported that the mixture heated up as they added acetone to the H2O2. This heat suggests that a reaction is taking place. Although this also would take too much time to complete the reaction.
It is not feasable to make these peroxides (AP&HMTD) without an acid. As it takes too long to complete the reaction.

<small>[ March 21, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: 0EZ0 ]</small>

I use 60% h²o² and note that the temp only rises by ~2/3degree's when not in ice bath, I don't register any temp rise when it's in icebath.

Yeah I can never tell any difference when I mix my acetone and H2O2 but then again my digital thermometer can 'only' measure with an accuracy within .1*

And as for adding the acid, I have heard that it is relatively easy to mix in HCl with the actone and H2O2 without a harmful amount of temperature rise (mainly because it is used with about a 30-36% concentration) while using H2SO4 rapidly causes heat and users of this method may well know of how easy it is to accidentally get it hot enough to start steaming (I know I sure do).

No acetone peroxide can be formed without a mineral acid catalyst. The definition of a catalyst is a chemical that either speeds up a chemical reaction, or allows a chemical reaction to occur that would not occur otherwise. If you look at the chemistry of the formation of acetone peroxide, you'll realize that the presence of a mineral acid is necessary.

On the topic of catalysts, can some of you intelligent people help me a little with this?

I am using 6% H202 for my AP and I made this little chart to help me with the conversions:

Original formula:
______________
50ml acetone
30ml 30% H2O2
3ml H2SO4

H202 chart
__________
3% 300ml
6% 150ml < what I used
9% 100ml
12% 75ml
15% 60ml
18% 50ml
21% 42.8ml
24% 37.5ml
27% 33ml
30% 30ml

So I used this:
___________
50ml acetone
150ml 6% H2O2
3ml H2SO4

please correct me if Im wrong.

Some guy told me to use more H2SO4 but Im not sure, can you help me?

I would use 15mL of H2SO4 when using 6% H2O2.

That depends of the conc of the H2SO4. But in general you schuld use more acid when using low conc. H2O2 and when making large batches.

I just finished my batch.
So this Is what I did:

I used this recipie
50ml acetone
150ml 6% H2O2
3ml H2SO4

I probably should of used more H2SO4. After making it, I put it im my homemade cooler (because I dont want to use my refrigerator) I made my own cooler by getting a styrofoam box and putting a freezer gel pack in it to make it cold. The temprature inside the styrofoam box was about -3 C After 24 hours in the box the crystals appeared YAY! they were very fine crystals (they looked like snowflakes) But, I lost most of it when washing it, because my damn coffee filter slipped! :mad: ARRRGGGG!

With the little I had left I just burned it. It burned fast making a FWUMP noise.

I take it you didn't have very good yeilds..

any tips?