This is from Skylighter's newsletter:

"So here�s the latest scoop.

In early June we were visited by an agent from CPSC on
a carefully planned inspection. To make a very long
day�s story very short, we were legally required to
and did provide a great deal of information about our
business practices and sales transactions.

That information is being reviewed by CPSC. We were
told that it might be several weeks or months before
we heard back from them.

What will happen? Well, without having a crystal
ball, I can only speculate. But I think there are
several possibilities:

1. CPSC will give us clean bill of health, and we will
continue to conduct business as usual without any
changes.

2. CPSC will request that we further restrict sales of
some items to non-ATF licensees

3. CPSC will present us with a legally binding
document in which we agree to certain restrictions and
business practices.

4. CPSC could initiate legal action against us in
Federal court.

These are not mutually exclusive; #2 or #3 could lead
to #4. for instance.

What does this mean to you? If you are a regular
buyer of chemicals and supplies from Skylighter, then
2, 3, or 4 above could result in your not being able
to purchase what you want from Skylighter at some
point in the future. Since almost all other pyro
supplies vendors are now either closed or severely
restricted by CPSC in what they can sell, this could
mean that you simply cannot get the chemicals or
supplies you need.

Which outcome is most likely? It�s anybody�s guess.
Here�s what I can tell you. You will have judge for
yourself what you think the likely outcome will be and
act accordingly.

-SNIP (goes on to say how Skylighter is a good, law-abiding merchant)-

But whether Skylighter�s good practices will prevent
legal action by the CPSC remains to be seen.

Second, there is a pattern in CPSC�s actions against
pyro suppliers. During the past 5 years, CPSC has
gone after virtually every single pyro supplies dealer
in the US. And in every case, they have won.

So, is CPSC simply doing its job (as they should), by
zealously going after companies who intentionally,
illegally sold kits or components for making illegal
exploding devices? Well, it appears they go beyond
mere enforcement. For instance, I am aware of a
number of instances of one or more Federal agencies
attempting to make undercover M80 component purchases
from Skylighter and their being refused. We even have
a taped telephone conversation of a CPSC agent trying
to get one of our former customers to make an illegal
purchase from us (the customer refused).

So, now Skylighter is the �last man standing.� Will
CPSC try to force us to restrict our sales as they
have with all the other vendors? Or is Skylighter�s
existing set of M80 sales restrictions deemed
sufficient? I dunno. I wouldn�t wanna bet on it one
way or the other.

So, for all of you who wonder if they should �stock
up� against future shortages, this is the latest. Do
what you think you have to.

-SNIP (the rest can be read on their site)-

http://www.skylighter.com/

Any bets on what will happen (if anything) to Skylighter?:(

You stated that you have a taped conversation of a CPSC asshole trying to
get a former customer to make an illegal purchase. In refusing, I hope that
customer kindly told them to "FUCK OFF !". I put nothing below those
assholes. The last order I got from you was for sparklers. I was sent a
letter from a pyro supplier about the NFPA and CPSC wanting to ban ALL
consumer fireworks - even sparklers ! Given that shitty attitude I'd brace
myself for some harassment.

Wow, its fun watching the government using "terrorism" as a scare tactic to slowly take away our rights. Here is a passage from the CPSC website:

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission is charged with protecting the public from unreasonable risks of serious injury or death from more than 15,000 types of consumer products under the agency's jurisdiction. Deaths, injuries and property damage from consumer product incidents cost the nation more than $700 billion annually. The CPSC is committed to protecting consumers and families from products that pose a fire, electrical, chemical, or mechanical hazard or can injure children. The CPSC's work to ensure the safety of consumer products - such as toys, cribs, power tools, cigarette lighters, and household chemicals - contributed significantly to the 30 percent decline in the rate of deaths and injuries associated with consumer products over the past 30 years.


So basically we arn't intelligent enough to realize that we shouldn't drink sodium hydroxide or smoke next to a propane tank, so we have the wonderful CPSC to help us out. Thanks, fricken ass holes. When I want some jack off in a suit to tell me how to live, I'll let you know :p. Here is another good one (http://www.kidsource.com/cpsc/firework.safety.cpsc.html).

"Fireworks can add fun and excitement to a holiday celebration, but they also can turn a backyard celebration into a rush to the emergency room," said CPSC Chairman Ann Brown.

No shit Sherlock, so can playing basketball or swimming while intoxicated. Plus fireworks won't be fun or exciting after you guys ban them from existance. They act like fireworks and chemicals are the only thing that cause death and injury. Hmmm, if you are the Consumer Product Safety Commission, how about you ban the product "alcohol". 17,000 people died last year and countless injured as a result of drunk driving in the United States. Guess how many died from fireworks in 2005. FOUR. YES FOUR PEOPLE compared to 17,000... And only about 5,000 people have died as a result of Terrorism in the US in the past 100 YEARS. I'm glad to see their putting their efforts into the real problem. When will they learn that banning materials isn't going to fix society?

I'm sorry I'm being such a sarcastic ass, but I've had a rough day and the government just pisses me off sometimes! (or all the time)

Let them ban anything they want.

People like us will ALWAYS find a way. :)

Oh, and just like with alcohol, once it (fireworks) becomes universally illegal, people like us (me, more specifically) will make a killing (pardon the pun) in fireworks. :D

Yes, I can see it now. Instead of running moon shine in our trunks, we'll be running kilos of Ammonium Nitrate and Potassium Perchlorate (just some of the oxidizers they are making illegal). And we'll have little labs set up out in the woods where they can't find us.

The thing that gets me is the fact that I can make far more powerful explosives by going to the Hardware store than I could from ordering from an online store. Plus you wouldn't have to be 21 at the hardware store and it would be cheaper and faster. So since I can't make fire crackers anymore, I'm just going to go to ACE and make some High Explosive instead. Its more fun anyway :D. If they tried to ban everything you could make explosives with, people wouldn't be able to live a normal life.

I hope skylighter stands their ground, as well as sites like United Nuclear. They are the last hope for pyro chemicals online.

I hope skylighter stands their ground, as well as sites like United Nuclear. They are the last hope for pyro chemicals online.My understanding is that United Nuclear has already signed a legally binding agreement that restricts their sales exactly like what was forced on Firefox.

They also agreed to destroy their "offending" inventory, also just like Firefox was made to do.

There are some that remember "the letter" wherein the CPSC got some Justice Dept. letterhead and scared the crap out of half the customers of the last few pyro suppliers. This (I was told) was taken into consideration when the judge heard final arguments before a ruling in a pre-lim.

The Justice Dept. tried to CYA and distanced themselves from the individuals involved. It was an abuse of dept mail and resulted in scrutiny of that abuse BUT it won't stop. Look forward to a LOT of scare tactics in the future.

I have heard before that a hell of a lot of "lists" were maintained by CPSC and that the overwhelming majority of folks on that list were really very harmless middle aged folks that are subject to that form of coercion. It actually takes in the majority of the PGII (a group of more harmless folks would be hard to find).

I saw that coming; not enough people realized that government agencies need to substantiate their existence. .....they (pyro hobbyists, amateur rocket folks) were through! The hobby is over. But this is actually due to some real idiots who DID make some M80's. Many of those jerks were guys who either lived on or near Indian reservations, Mexican nationals who did that for an extra buck, or "Kewls".

There IS a substantial story behind this....it's not particularly interesting and very predicable. New Years & 4 July would come around and the shit would sell out. The Mexican connection is typical. There are neighborhoods in Mexican states that would make fireworks. They used to copy designs from China & Japan.

The method would be for one or two people how actually knew a meager bit about fireworks to attempt to do the production on the cheap. Their ground salutes (that was actually the majority of what they did because it was simple) would often have plaster plugs in the end, etc. But what they did was buy up KCLO3 and use it continually. They also often bought VERY low grade base materials, even using waste paper and actual garbage to construct the fireworks. The completed objects were hosed down and shipped wet! This was done to minimize the danger; but they eventually dried. Indian reservation stuff was little better (that crap was mostly all under powered ground salutes to make more $ and they occasionally did use KCLO4) but generally they contributed a small percentage compared to the Mexicans.

So there WAS some substantiation for the action to a very, very meager degree. But it existed. The Mexican shit WAS very dangerous. They had a history of actually causing problems in the neighborhood "factories". Most all of their rockets CATOed & they eventually stayed with junk like cones or similar stuff that could be a disposal for unwanted chemicals.

The CPSC became involved chiefly due to their need for substantiation for their existence. They saw an opportunity and took it. Every "Kewl" who got caught blowing up a mail box was fuel for the fire. Records were kept; which was easy because another agency which need substantiation for it's existence (atf) tagged "explosives" on to their name (remember that?) and kept records of even childish prank stuff.

EVERY accident...EVERY vandalism - that could be documented was part of the stats given to the judge in this case. That is exactly why the hobby is lost: because of idiots who hurt themselves or others with their rush to experience a thrill. Often people ask why are hunting or shooting areas becoming less and less.....ask the idiots who shoot up signs.....same concept.

This is so fucked up. This is seriously telling us that we are not intelligent enough to not hold a fucking sparkler on the metal wire, instead of the part that burns.

It's also fairly retarded that they say "fireworks related injuries," instead of "non serious 2nd degree burns." I doubt more than 20 of said injuries hurt more than a bee-sting.

@Rbick Yeah, I know what you mean. Hey I can't get Potassium Perchlorate, maybe I'll just make some C4 instead!

I hear you. I actually just got a gallon of ethylenediamine today for FREE as a sample from a chemical company (its not hard, just have to call the right people), but I'll be darned if I can get a pound of potassium perchlorate! Well I'll just have to make some PLX then I guess ;).

The funny thing is if they want to stop the production of PLX, they'd have to ban a popular racing fuel and any product containing an amine group (i.e. most epoxy curing agents, paint additive, corrosion inhibitors, house hold ammonia, the list goes on). Or AP? Take away paint solvent, hydrogen peroxide for cleaning wounds, and pool cleaner? Yeah right...

Well in trying to look at the bright side of things: At least with the banning of so many things, it forces us to learn more about chemistry and get more creative...

Rbick, you're right about more powerful explosives can be made with items
from any number of OTC sources. AP is the powerful, simple, and dangerous
example. It takes less time to make AP than to electrolyze a chloride
solution into chlorate or perchlorate. The same can be said for ball milling
aluminum foil into flash-grade powder. I make my own KCLO4 and Al powder
so I don't need to order those from suppliers.

Some coloring agents, that are oxiidizers, are cheaper to buy than to
produce. I can easily get salts of ammonia, barium, calcium, copper, lithium,
potassium, sodium, and strontium OTC. Converting the carbonates of barium,
copper, and lithium to nitrates would cost me more than if I bought them.
So the pyro suppliers do provide some oxidizers at a lower cost.

The 1 LB per year limit on oxidizers is absolute bullshit but if this rule iis
enforced uniformly throughout the industry, I'll have no choice but to go the
more expensive route.

Sure, all the restrictions being made on pyrotechnic chemicals worldwide can be ignored if all one wants is to make is a bang. A person will always be able to make an explosion capable of taking a few fingers, or a house's walls down, but the same can not be said of creating a beautiful pyrotechnic display.

If things keep going the way they are, ameteur, and possibly professional pyrotechnics will become a lost art. You can't tell me that with a few chlorate cells and a ball mill a person can create all the diverse devices of the fireworks industry.

It's not going to be possible to get large amounts of flaked titanium, barium nitrate, or other semi-exotic materials without industrial production above and beyond what the ametur enthusiast is capable of.

That is the sad truth about the extinction of hobby pyrotechnics.

But that also means that the time for the serious side of pyrotechnic science is approaching.

Much like a saying I've seen that said:


If it's time to bury them1, it's time to dig them up2


1. Referring to guns, to hide them from the government.
2. To use them against the above.

I like the way you're thinking nbk... I did swear an oath to defend our constitution against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. Sound familiar to any of you ex-military guys out there?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


The document makes it clear that no section of the government has any right to take away firearms. Not even Congress. That BITCH Nancy Pelosi wants to take away this right, and to let fags get married. Why? I would never commit a crime against innocent people with a gun, and most Americans wouldn't either. I just watched an interesting video about congress. Out of the approximate 500 members, 394 have been charged or are in the process of being charged with serious crimes including : Fraud, Drunk Driving, Assault, Battery, Drug use, ect. Sounds like the people you want running your country right? Seems like the people who need more laws and restrictions is the government itself. I feel like I need to defend myself and others from these people. I love this country, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let it turn into what they are trying to make it. I'll be the first one pulling the trigger when those bastards come and try to take away my rights. :mad:

@ Rbick ---The bitch (Pelosi) appeals to college kids...and they vote. Go to any university centered city from Madison Wisconsin to Phoenix Arizona and you'll see the mindless sheep-kids voting in a manner that would make you sick! Ask them who the sec-defense is, they don't know, ask them who the 40th pres was, they don't know. Ask them what issues are on the table now in the House and Senate, they don't know.

I could be wrong, but what I see is the STUPIDEST group of young voters in this country happen to be University attending "individuals" (that's questionable in itself; as they vote like sheep). I remember what happened during Vietnam very well. The level of discourse was "street theater"....straight out of a Marxist-Leninist play book. There is no dialog with "HEY HEY, HOO, HOO, TRICKY DICK HAS GOT TO GO" When in fact it was Democrats that got us INTO Vietnam and handcuffed us there.

The same shit will happen with guns, etc ----- they get some poor fool out to work street theater & talk about "gun violence"....as if the firearm jumped off the table and ran berserk. This was done with James Brady. Attacking the object in attempts to curtail the actions of an individual has always been laughable to me....

Your Honor her crime was breaking wind in a crowded elevator.....She used spinach on those poor people. We must stop the spinach violence!

Actually Charles, I visit Madison regularly, as it is a 50 minute drive from my home. It is an extremley liberal area. Many fellow classmates from High School are currently attending there. And yes, they do vote like sheep. Apparently disagreeing with everything that isn't for abortion, drug use and gun control is considered "Open Minded". Indeed, being "Open Minded" is plugging your ears and saying " NAH NAH! I CAN'T HEAR YOU" when I attempt to explain my side of the issue. They don't really know what they stand for, its pathetic.

I am currently a college student as well. But I am glad to say that I am not a memeber of this group :cool:. Thanks for the invite liberals, but I prefer to think for myself :p. BAN THE SPINACH!

HA! A close friend who I used to work with grew up near Madison! He tells me stories about visiting his home and they drive me insane.....I just don't understand how young people don't hunger to think for themselves; why they would allow themselves to be lead like sheep.

In fact I would go you one better...I think it's actually a case of marketing driving the political machine to a point that the tail wags the dog in a manner so obvious that it would make a thinking man wallow in cynicism. And that very cynicism drives the thinking man from political action.

I deeply believe that the worst thing a person can do is buy into the lie of "the best of two Evils" when voting. The lie is that "my vote won't count if I vote for who really reflects my values and thinking". If we should start to (& continue) to vote our hearts then the Two Parties may wake up and start to reflect what the population really wants.

Ross Perot made an impact (albeit a slight one) but it scared the shit out of the Two Parties (for differing reasons, of course)....they will not want such a thing to happen ever again. I am no fan of Perot but the concept of running OUTSIDE the mainstream is (IMO) politically healthy. This nation desperately needs some political health. The worst thing about our current president is that he is a terrible communicator. We won't know anything of substance about Iraq because of that lack of communication.

Most every major Democrat felt we should curtail Sadam and said so publicly....I can prove that. But when it comes to marketing political rhetoric, they quickly distance themselves and cry for "peace"....even when they stated Iraq was a MAJOR threat previously! REMEMBER the hawkishness of LBJ! Remember the "Domino Theory" often quoted by JFK! THESE are the same jerks that blame the "Object" for the behaviour of those who may symbolize a voting block.

You lot make it seem as if liberals are the primary political evil in America (Except perhaps Mr. Picket). You seem to be under the impression that "the left" is to blame. But I'll let you in on a secret: In mainstream (think piss) politics, it's all the same. The so-called liberals and the the so-called conservatives, you think, are truly opposites? The people running the FCC, you can call them liberals if you like, and you can call the people at iDefense conservatives, and you cando the same with the pigs (though to be fair, I have met a few decent ones), Congressmen, as mentioned above, and the other politicians too, but you know, they're all doing the same thing. Dare you deny it?

And when you see a scene where you have people arguing over trivial things like shampoo, birth control, "gay rights", "where did you get those pants..." or Lord forbid the weather, do you have the urge to laugh at these fucking idiots? (I do, and made quite a scene once...) Even a common person will have this urge once in a while, and do you know why? Personally I think it is because it strikes chord. Everyone all, I think, knows how futile this all is, how little it matters, that all these things are all the same, but of course usually not admitting it. Then you get into POLITICS, "ooh, how serious" you may think. Alright, but then you start to talk about how the so-and-so's are ruining the society... How this bitch and that bastard are trying to ban this and restrict that. And who do you blame it on? The liberals. The conservatives. College kids who vote mindlessly for one idiot in favour of another because... everyone else is. You place the blame on all of these different people and groups, often according to one's own political persuasion.

I ask, how separate are they?

Nothing else has accelerated my production of homemade KClO3 like this insaity from the CPSC. Now I pay only pennies a pound for water softener KCl which precipitates as beautiful crystals of the "deadly forbidden oxidizer". Platinum and titanium are now my favorite two elements, as long as electricity is still fairly cheap. "We're from the government; and we're here to help you." In this case, they actually did.

Expect them to visit more pyro suppliers before it's all said and done. Like
many pyro lovers, I sythesize my own ingredients wherever possible from OTC
sources. I've done it for many years. Get creative and FUCK the CPSC !
Part of the problem with bureaucracies is the survival mentality. They have
to justify their existence, so being a pain-in-the-ass to the rest of us keeps
their funding coming.

Platinum and titanium are now my favorite two elements, as long as electricity is still fairly cheap.
Care to describe your cell and techniques? Yields, rate of production, power usage... Enquiring minds want to know!