Has anyone tried the fentanyl synthesis posted on page 3?

along with the post on page 3, it can be found at the following link

rhodium. check out www.rhodium.ws/chemistry , scroll to the section on fentanyl.

Just curious.

-I'm a chemist, not a cop.

How about providing a direct link to whatever it is you are referring to by 'Page 3'. I can guess, but we're not about guessing here.

And cop or not, it's bad manners (and stupid) to ask people 'Hey, has anyone here committed a federal felony with a life sentence by synthesizing a schedule 1 narcotic?'. :rolleyes:

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=3950

The DEA just enacted a law regulating the sale of the precursor (NPP) to cut down on illegal manufacturing of fentanyl. However, you can still synthesize the NPP from chemicals that are still available without regulation. But there are a few details missing from the synthesis posted in the thread.

While there are a few instructions that are missing from the synthesis from Rhodium's site, which is found here on the erowid mirror : hxxp://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/fentanyl.html

There is a very over all general preparation for making fentanyl. Coupled with some patents, I can't link, because I have to go through my archives.

But the first precursor (NPP) Can be synthesized from Piperdine which can be extracted from Pepper, which is outlined again in Rhodium's archive here : hxxp://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/3base/piperonal.pepper/index.html

If you ask me, it's feasible to be done at home, just not something recommended lightly, as I'm sure with the micro gram dosage needed to be effective, and the very low level needed to over dose, that you would have to take several precautions.

But the first precursor (NPP) Can be synthesized from Piperdine which can be extracted from Pepper, ...
Could you specify how would you oxidize piperidine, or 1-(2-phenylethyl-)-piperidine to the respective 4-ketones...?

http://opioids.com/fentanyl/synthesis.html

Well, I would like to know the specific process of preparing a 1-R-4-piperidone from the corresponding 1-R-piperidine. There is none such, as far as I know.
Instead, 1-R-4-piperidone could be prepared with good yields by a simple radical addition of the respective amine to alkyl acrylate, followed by an intramolecular Claisen condensation and subsequent alkoxycarbonyl group cleavage (hydrolysis+decarboxylation).

Given this is not the Hive, surely the inordinately small overdose weight is useful to us. A little DMSO, if it's soluble, and presto! "The subject died of self-inflicted drug overdose."

The Russians used a fentanyl gas to deal with some terrorists that held a theater with bombs. Check back on this as the gas formula may be available. Is it workable? Well for a less-lethal weapon; sure. But about 100 people out of 250 or so died. It's a damn strong narcotic and certainly you don't want to get high or produce some synthetic white to sell to fools, right? So as a weapon there are better choices if the modality is a less-lethal sedative, etc. Measuring shit in micro grams is very tricky.

But about 100 people out of 250 or so died.

Actually, approximately 150 out of 800 persons died.

I remember reading somewhere that the Russians used four times the amount need to incapacitate the terrorists and hostages. The excess amount used could have been due to an error in calculations or a variety of good or bad reasoning.

The Russians used a fentanyl gas to deal with some terrorists that held a theater with bombs. Check back on this as the gas formula may be available. Is it workable? Well for a less-lethal weapon; sure. But about 100 people out of 250 or so died. It's a damn strong narcotic and certainly you don't want to get high or produce some synthetic white to sell to fools, right? So as a weapon there are better choices if the modality is a less-lethal sedative, etc. Measuring shit in micro grams is very tricky.

From memory, carfentanyl, as an aerosol in volatile solvent, not as a gas.

I stand corrected. They used expression like "gas" from the damn source - a US news media source, that I should have confirmed. - 800/100+ is actually not bad.

Instead of an opioid like fentanyl, which because of its molecular weight and boiling-point has to be vaporized or made into an aerosol for delivery, I wonder if those Russians could have used, in that theater, good old N2O instead, being an odorless gas and immediately available as hospital supplies, to put all the occupants to sleep. Another alternative could have been CO2, which also has a sleep-inducing effect in high concentrations (without first causing laughter), and is even more readily available. I also wonder why the Rusians did not use the same tactic in the seige of that school in Beslan two years ago.

Nitrous would take a ridiculous amount, besides being a combustion accelerant.

The Beslan terrorists were hip to the knock-out gas trick, and had dead-man switches that would go off if they passed out (plus they always had someone wearing a gas-mask, just in case).

The russians apparently decided to stun the terrorists by firing RPO-A Schmel thermobaric rockets into the school. :eek:

It certainly did the trick...all but one terrorist dead, along with about a quarter of the hostages.

Damn...remind me never to be taken hostage in russia! :D

Where I found the reference to use of the RPO-A during the Beslan incident:
http://www.pravdabeslana.ru/english.htm

I find your insulting tendencies to be quite out of place. It seems you are suffering from free radical attack on you cognitive centers.Is nbk2000 the moderator of this forum? Gosh!

Since I have a powerful acid for blood, free-radicals are non-existent...like you are now. :)

The situation which Charles Owlen Picket referenced is collectively known as the Moscow Theater Crisis. Basically roughly 40 people, who were later identified as chechens as belonging to the group SPIR, or Special Purpose Islamic Regiment. The Russian authorities used an unidentified gas to neutralize the hostiles inside. It later came out at a government inquest that they had used weaponized Fentanyl (however, there was also rumors of leftover soviet VX) which they put into the air conditioning ducts. The official death count was 33 terrorists and 129 hostages dead. though those numbers are fiercely contested. Most of the 129 were children whose bodies had a lower median toxicity level of such an agent, and therefore died. I wrote quite a lengthy dissertation about it.

Just to point out, fentanyl, in the USA is a schedule II drug, at least in the USA. The difference between a schedule I, such as heroine, and a schedule II, such as fentanyl, is illustrated in the difference between the penalties for powder cocaine and crack cocaine. Crack is a schedule I and therefore carries higher penalties than powder cocaine, which is schedule II. This has lead to leaders of the black community claiming the penalties are racist, because most people found with crack are poor black people, and powder cocaine users tend to be more affluent white people.

Fentanyl is something along the lines of 80 times more potent than morphine. To give you a sense of that, the FDA has approved Actiq (the lollipop dosage form) only "for the management of breakthrough cancer pain in patients with malignancies who are already receiving and who are tolerant to opioid therapy for their underlying persistent cancer pain." (Cephalon, Actiq Package Insert) The doses of this range from 200 micro grams (mcg) to 1600mcg. In the USA, a doctor has to be an oncology specialist to even be allowed to prescribe anything 800mcg or above.

My advice is don't touch that stuff. I think it even killed one of my grandparents, but she died before I knew what this stuff did. She was in the habit of using a heating pad with a fentanyl patch. It's worse for you than heroin in my opinion.