I find ironic that the US government, currently engaged in a bloody guerilla war with iraq insurgents, has had their Iraqi proxies hang the only man who's ever managed to keep the country together and at (relative) peace.

:rolleyes:

We should have given the whole mess back to the man and left the whole mess to him for clean-up. :)

I have no idea, all I care about is when the hanging video hits you-tube.

There is already a pic of his dead body (looks like a video capture) here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Saddam_Hussein

Iraqis must love to see death all the time - they always post this in record time to the AL-Ansar website. Here are some more details from the execution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Saddam_Hussein

Decent grainy quality from a cell phone camera:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7532034279766935521

God it gives me the warm and fuzzies.

We hung him for killing people with some of the very weapons we gave him to fight a proxy war with Iran.

Although I think america is going to have a hard time installing a working government, This man was terrible, and I think he had it coming to him. Just hearing about about the thousands he killed, he needed killing. Some times I think iraq only understands the butt of a gun. Its going to be a long and very involved process and I don't think a just government will ever be ascertainable there.

Seeing as we've reaped absolutely no benefit from "freeing" these ingrates, not even so much as a fuck you, I believe it should go into the files with other recent and not so recent fuck-ups, like: {insert your favorite HERE}.

You're right- they don't understand anything except martial law, enforced by an iron handed ruler with no qualms about doing what's necessary to keep the shit hole livable.

Maybe we would've had a better result had we leveled Iran instead.:p

Or better yet, stayed the fuck home and wallow in the (once plentiful) surplus left from the dealings of the Clinton years.

Oh, yea, the thread. Saddam's dead.:eek:

Dead my ass.:rolleyes: We'll be fighting him for the next ten years, at least.

I never believed the whole WMD and roots of terrorism reasons for going into Iraq. I did have hope that the removal of Saddam would give Iraqi's the opportunity to a better future, well I have lost that hope. Now I think that he had to be as ruthless as he was to hold that country somewhat together.

The only thing muds understand is force, and a LOT of it.

That's why these 3rd world countries are all ran by dictators, because only dictators can use a sufficient level of force to keep things under control.

[rant=on]
Yup - force, force, and a little more force for good measure. The nice guy isn't usually the one with all the power and ability to get things done in prison.

I forget the exact words now, but I read something a while ago I found interesting - the basic gist of it was that the Iraqis confuse freedom with anarchy. Having been so long (for what reason is another matter) without any real semblance of fredom, many seem unable or unwilling to realise that freedom means the right to do as one chooses, SO LONG as it does not interfere with the fredom of others.

On a secondary note, for fuck's sake! The only people allowed into the execution room were purported to be officials and a cleric. Yet _still_ there was (a) The taunting of the prisoner by some of those present, (b) A mobile-phone video recorded of the event and (c) the poor bastard wasn't even allowed to finish his final words - he only had 5 to go to finish his sentence.

That said, I do think he was far from somebody I'd delight in knowing. You just gotta admit that the whole affair - right from the apparent failure of the mission to get Osama in Afganistan stinks like shit.

Treating a tyrant with more (a little more) humanity than he extended to others does not make you a nice guy. Indeed world opinion echoes my own sentiments on the matter, in that he deserved punishment - arguably the death penalty was appropriate (though I'll only condone death as a action taken in the heat of the moment). It was however, the way the whole affair was conducted that's fucked up.

Fancy that, stating that it was the death penalty, and not justice(which may very well have included the death penalty) that was being sought right from the onset of the trial. I always thought judges and juries were there to judge and determine appropriate punishment, not to rubber-stamp a decision made above their heads.:rolleyes:

Should've just given the marines a reason to drop that grenade into his hiding hole in the first place.
[rant=off]

Being in Canada I am amazed that ''justice'' actually did something.

If Saddam had been caught here he would have 10 years of prison time and he could get out after three if he didn't act like a jackass in jail. The actual trial would have taken months.

Whatever, I'm not for the War in Iraq, but that guy got what was coming to him. I just like how Iraqis don't play around with ''respectful'' executions and just hang the bastard while taunting him. He was a smartass at the tribunal, not so much now.

Of course, this isn't going to help the situation in Iraq in any way, shape or form. Just let them fight amongst themselves. Iran has nukes but no way to deliver them to North America... I'll just wait and see, thank you.

Extreme authoritarianism, hatred for life and pleasure, feelings of inferiority and humiliation, and group narcissism are the main psychic traits that define the Middle East people, and as such they are the results of sadistic and traumatic child-rearing practices, specific for that region. There have been numerous studies on that subject. So I wouldn't say they desire anarchy, they just want more charismatic leaders and more interpersonal authority.

Sadam’s death was needed we all know that, the fucker deserved it as lots of you have already mentioned, though the victory attitude it gives to the western nations that they have done some good makes me sick to my stomach. Getting Sadam only caused more problems than the country already had.

But the deaths in the Iraq war will be nothing matched to the future Nazi Germany style world dictatorship we are heading into now.

On the topic of nukes.
Iran has nukes
:confused: Last time I heard it was going to take Iran approx. 20 years to have a working nuke.

Who killed more Iraquis : Saddam or Bush?

Probably Bush, but would you rather live in a country run by Bush or Saddam? At least we know that Bush will gone soon.
The Iraqi's were handed a chance for a better life on a silver platter and in typical Raghead fashion they took a big healthy crap on it. The main reason they are still fighting and dying is because of their culture, religion and stupidity. They are killing each other.

"would you rather live in a country run by Bush or Saddam?"

Difficult choice, like by Stalin of by Hitler? But indeed Saddam deserved it!
Bush would be gone, but could his style of rulling be gone too?

On the topic of nukes.

:confused: Last time I heard it was going to take Iran approx. 20 years to have a working nuke.

It's just speculation, but with:
-Friends like Russia and North Korea having nukes,
-The Internet,
- A few scientists and some Uranium,

I don't get how a nation like Iran would take 20 years to get the bomb. It didn't take the USA that much time and at that time the method to make a nuke wasn't known or posted on the internet.

Simply RED you obviously do not live in the United States,the comparison of Bush to Saddam is laughable, so laughable that I don't even know where to start arguing with it.

As to who has killed more Iraqi's I am sure that Saddam killed more Iraqi civilians than the United States military has, but if you total the number that have died since the invasion including those who have been killed by insurgents the numbers may be closer.

Simply Red, you avoided the question by asking another question.
I hate Bush and I think most Americans feel the same. His approval ratings are amongst the lowest of any US president. How he ever got elected is something I will never understand.There is a serious flaw in the Presidential election process in this country.

Yes, they are different!
Saddam was applying his will, no matter how bad it may be.
Bush is applying the will of the big capitalists, no matter how bad it may be.
In both cases the oppressive forces of the countries are used to complete these tasks.
Non of them did bad things because of pure evil. Saddam (he was not that stupid) tried to sustain his regime. Bush tried (and did) to caputure Saddam's oil (he had direct orders to do so).
Saddam deserves more respect by trying to think on his own :D

But it is all the same in fact: somebody's will applied blindly without thinking of the consequences.

oh...
Happy New Year and fuck them both!

I think it's funny how their appeals court works. In America the outcome of an appeals court is always better or the same for a convict, but in their appeals court it could go both ways. So Saddam goes to appeals court and then instead of life in prison they say, "No, thats not good enough." so they sentenced him to death. I just find that so ironically amusing.

Basic maths:

3000 US servicemen dead, at least 10 times that in Iraqi's of all descriptions by Bush's (very conservative and now out of date) numbers. (For comparison, in Gulf War 1, the USA claimed 20,000 dead Iraqis. It lasted about 2 weeks!)

The US helped get him into power over 30 years ago. He gained most of his power in 1972 to 1976, becoming ruler in July 1979.

Figures are scare, but estimates of 300,000 deaths over the 23 to 27 years are claimed, but given that he was tried for killing 182,000 Kurds it probably isn't too far away. So, run the maths.

Saddam was in power for 276 months. This gives around 1000 dead per month, excluding the Iran-Iraq war)

Bush has 'controlled' Iraqi for about 45 months and with 30,000 dead Iraqis minimum, that's about 666 dead a month.

If we include the less partisan figures for Iraqi non-military deaths (which aren't even counted) and are believed to be around 2667 for *just* September 2006, and call that an average, we can see that the death toll under Bush was far, far higher than under Saddam.

See http://www.lowerdown.com/2006/10/11/httpwwwthelancetcomwebfilesimagesjournalslancets01 40673606694919pdf/

However, unless the US is deposed (perhaps if God tells GW to do it during their morning chat?) as leader of the nearly-free world, he will never be arraigned. Sadly.

At least we know that Bush will gone soon.
Wouldn’t be too sure about that, all America needs now is a national emergency (eg. terror attack) to give FEMA control, station troops on the streets, take control of all schools, gas stations, grocery stores ect. (there are orders to do that) and ultimately turn America into a fully fledged dictatorship.

During that national emergency elections will also be suspended.

His approval ratings are amongst the lowest of any US president. How he ever got elected is something I will never understand.There is a serious flaw in the Presidential election process in this country.
You may want to check out the documentary ‘American Dictatorship’ by Alex Jones (google video) somewhere after the bohemian grove stuff it goes into how easy the elections are to be rigged with the new electronic voting machines leaving no paper trail.

People may think "That could never happen in America" but it has happened in America before why not again?

Then when you have the most powerful country in the world run by one power hungry dictator (Bu$h) it doesn’t take a genius to figure what is going to happen next.

One slight problem with your figures Jack's Complete, there is no way of telling how many Iraqi deaths were caused by U.S. troops as opposed to Iraqi on Iraqi violence.

Obviously one can say it doesn't really matter as it is still indirectly Bush's fault, but if we are going with indirect deaths then we have to count the half million children Saddam starved to death by misusing the Food for Oil program.

You can argue forever who killed how many and come up with different figures and definitions every time. Specially when one considers how British special forces were caught red handed planting bombs to create "Iraqi on Iraqi" violence... such things are done in every conflict, it's nothing remarkable... only someone moronically naive would refuse to believe that Americans/British never used false-flag ops to further violence between enemy factions (it would be stupid not to do so to take advantage of differences between various groups). And why have Americans been so good at looking the other way whenever the Shia militias arm themselves to the teeth?

Fact is... the only fact that really matters for the future... is that the US gave Iraq to Iran as a gift. Because of sheer incompetence? Or is this some secret policy mere mortals can't understand?

Smart... very smart. Talk about hitting your thumb with a hammer.

Killing a has-been like Saddam was only a feeble attempt to retrieve some credibility. I do agree however with the gist of the arguments above that the man was a turd. Just like Chimpy is a turd and Osama is a turd.... they're all turds. So it isn't like the skies have fallen if there is one less turd in this world. It might even be a good thing.

>>During that national emergency elections will also be suspended.

It's enough to make you laugh isn't it?
"There's no way we can hold elections at such a time of conflict, the results will be skewed"

How is the same not true of the shit-hole that is Iraq?

Hey, I'm all for cops - they only fuck me up when I deserve it and am stupid enough to draw attention to myself, but you can't put yourself up there as the world's policeman and then be selective about where and how you administer justice.

Also, sure Saddam's actions under the Oil For Food program did result in the deaths of 1/2 a million kids. But unless we learned of each and every one of these after the ceasation of the program, we're just as much to blame for being pigheaded and expecting his own (by all acounts, terrified) populace to rise up against him and demand he play ball. On one hand we call him a dictator and on the other we expect the sheeple there to tell him how to run the place. Yeah fucking right!

If the whole affair wasn't so serious it would be entirely laughable that we in the west hold the moral high-ground in this issue. It's like a bunch of schoolyard bullies fighting it out before the victor comes and tells the class what an upstanding citizen he is and that he was only fighting with the other bully "for the good of others"

I'm absolutely not a lawer. Just wondering, anybody know if it's usuall to execute a person who's still facing charges, charges that are arguably far more serious that the ones for which he was condemned? Be a shame if retribution got in the way of a fuller form of justice..

I think that it is customary to prosecute on all charges but if you were to do that with Saddam he would probably die of old age before hanging. How many death sentences do you need? Also, maybe the decision to hang asap was in the hope that it would help quell the insurgency/civil war.

Certainly, one execution will do the trick.

I'm approaching this from a philosophical point of view. In that it's somewhat akin to pardoning somebody after they've been wrongfully executed. The event has already irrevocably changed the future, but it's important that the record of history be correct.

I guess all we can hope for with regards to the prick is that he is found guilty in absentia for the other charges before him at the time of his death. For nobody's sake but those of his victims and their families. Though, in my country at least, all impending court cases are cancelled in the event of the death of the accused.

I'd personally have found no more problem with the situation if he was walked out the back door of the courtroom after the final rejection of his appeal and executed on the spot.

To avoid becoming tyrants ourselves, we need to respect people and due process, regardless of who they are, and how much of a cunt we take them to be. That is a true sign of civilized people, IMHO.

To avoid becoming tyrants ourselves, we need to respect people and due process, regardless of who they are, and how much of a cunt we take them to be. That is a true sign of civilized people, IMHO.That's how the system should work, but unfortunitely not how it does work. Only those with money can afford a defense, and only those with friends in high places can get off scotch free... the rest of society is destroyed by presumed guilt, and media spin.

Ex-fucking-zactly!!

That was precisely one of the things that leads me to believe it's a fucking joke that we take the moral high-ground. The people that are able avoid poor-man's justice are the very same ones that have deprived the Iraquis of it in this case.
We all know he was responsible for the deaths of too many people to count, but that may never be commited to paper as judicial fact - merely as being widely accepted, that's hardly a good thing.

Take for example Augusto Pinochet... If he was 15 years younger would he have been punished as robustly?? House arrest indeed! What's age got to do with it really, anyway?

Yeah, we may live in western society - but we sure aint civilized. Even if we don't live in rags in the desert, in my mind being civilized is about the mind, not the living circumstances. We may appear or even in fact, be less uncivilized, but we're still a long way from being civilized, I reckon.

Only people who believe in the things spoken here - can burry Saddam forever...

The man did what any one of us would have done in his situation. He grew up in hell, how can you blame him for growing into a demon? Thats not to say we arn't justified in killing him, he killed alot of people that may or may not have deserved it, (they probably did). Personaly I could probably justify killing the majority of the human population of earth for the things were responsible for.

We pay for the gas no matter how high the prices go. You blame *them* for the high prices when it's you who drives the cars everyday. You wonder why your broke when you buy a new car every five years. You spend three grand on a 54 inch tv and put 15 food ceelings in your house and wonder why it costs so much to heat it. People just keep playing along with it, NBK figured it out, (read his rants on rent). Socoiety *meaning you included* pays for shit they don't need every single day and the smart ones *you would do it too* capitalize on it and take advantage of everything they can to get some cash. That may or may not be human nature but it doesn't matter, thats the way our economy works. Goods are built to last a certian legnth of time and then stop so you have to buy a new one, if they worked for ever you would only sell so many and then business would stop. You would go out of business.

It's kind of a backwards socoiety, people "benifit" by selling junk rather than respectable goods. You can only stay in business if your service must be repeated. Whats the benifit of fixing a flat tire right when you can duct tape it and charge an extra 30 bucks when it breaks tomarrow? The goal of the system seems not to promote the individual, rather those smart enough to get in to positions of leadership. You are expected to keep yourself impoverished (not exactly poverty, you have nice things to keep you comfortable) for the good of the economy. Oh yeah, sadam is dead, did it change anything for you? Is your life any better? Do you really expect the oil prices to drop just because our corporations own the oil rather than the arabs? You think Saddam was bad, look at Africa, massacres happen all the time, genocide happens all the time, were only in Iraq because of the money. You think our government cares about the kurds? Saddam is only being punished because the Americans *thats you:) * demand "justice" for all the people he killed. If the media didn't bring the slaughter to your attention then you wouldn't give a rats ass about the towel heads.

And for those of you who hate Bush, I find it laughable that you even believe he has any control over anything. No one is that ignorant, no one is that bad with publicity. Bush is pressured into every descision he makes by the real rulers of the country, the ceo's and company owners. Think of it like a hierarchy, it goes: business to corporation to government. They're just a giant corporation that has to listen to it's investors. Exactly who is running the show is a mystery, but you can bet your ass Bush is falling so they can put some other pupet into power. The whole republican vs. democrat thing is a joke, call me a conspiracy theorist all you want but the senators benifit nothing from being devided on issues, keeping the sheeple happy and the money flowing is their only concern. If it makes them more money or it keeps the people happy then it goes. It's all just an act. Just you wait till we get some "liberal" in "power" next year and lose our guns, until then, just keep spending money and watching fox.

Is it possible that the execution video was faked? It shows him falling through the platform and for a moment you see the rope taunt, then the next few seconds you don't see his body at all. The next scene is of his face for a few grainy moments. It looked like one of the low budget films that had to use editing to get the desired effect.

This may be complete lunacy, but could that be possible?

And if so then why?

Just hearing about about the thousands he killed, he needed killing. Some times I think iraq only understands the butt of a gun. Its going to be a long and very involved process and I don't think a just government will ever be ascertainable there.

While he was a dictator like any other rich theocratic Arab country in the region (except he is not a religious scumbag), he did not kill thousands of peoples, that's one of the lies told by the Bush et al., i.e. the New World Order Guys. His sentence judgement consisted of charges of killing 148 civilians but being tried for the supposed Kurdish Massacre in Halapja.

And the claim that Iraqis were given a chance to live decently is a total deception, since the current government in Iraq is a puppet government which just like the Saudis and other pro-US and religious extremist Arab countries shall give concessions to US oil tycoons on a silver platter. That's why they are chosen for government.

And most probably the current scheme by the New World Order guys shall backfire and the Country shall succumb into a sectarian war and finally become a Islamic Fundamentalist stronghold like Afghanistan.

It's interesting that people living several thousand kms from Iraq and never set a foot in the area have very concrete convictions about Saddam and his supposed atrocities. Atrocities committed by pro-US Arab islamic countries under Sheriah (Islamic Laws) in the region are a few more folds than that of Saddam. Saddam was at least a secular guy not allowing those Islamic fundamentalists.

Do you think those Kurds were innocent lambs? They were armed to teeth and actively fighting for getting their Kurdistan, backed by the (in)famous three letter agency. In pursuance of their political aims, they both killed and got killed. No massacre, no genocide or something like that. The bastards are lying outright!... :mad: Regards.

Akinrog, the figures for the 300,000 killed by Saddam comes from a rather leftist group called Human Rights Watch. This group has nothing to do with Bush and those figures were stated long before Bush even came to power.

The video was certainly not faked, I watched official footage and the cell phone footage and everything up until the actual hanging is the same, the reason he dissappears is because he drops into a trap door in the floor and the camera didn't follow quickly enough, and the floor blocked the view of his body IIRC.

And most probably the current scheme by the New World Order guys

I don't like the bush administration but, I don't buy into the whole new world order horse shit. I am sorry but the NWO is a myth. Its a total joke. If you really believe in that then I have a bridge in London to sell you.:rolleyes:

This guy and his sons where absolute maniacs. His sons would see a women, kill her husband, rape her and, then kill her. Saddam used to take his sons and make them watch as he tortured people. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-04-13-saddam-secrets-usat_x.htm)

Sure..... he kept Iraq under control but at the cost of how many lives? The kurd massacre was inhumane. These people where oppressed, they where innocent. Most of the people killed weren't even rebels.

A larger amount of the people America kills are related or affiliated with terrorist activity. I do not advocate this war, but now that we are in the middle east we have to stay till the job is done or, till america rots from the inside out.

Let's assume that the whole Iraq war was a grab at there oil. You could argue endlessly about this. So what? Is the world economy better or worse off if the oil of Iraq was in US control? I would think better. Is it right, no.
What good came of the Iraq oil revenues under Saddam? Not much. He spent it on weapons and the wars with Iran and Kuwait. The people lived in squallor while he lived in opulent mansions.
If I was an Iraqi and given the choice of living under foreign occupation with a chance for a better life or living under a brutal dictator with no hope for the future, the choice is easy.
The real problem with Iraq is not the US, Bush, Saddam, the oil conspiracy, the problem is that it is full of Iraqis.

And for those of you who hate Bush, I find it laughable that you even believe he has any control over anything. No one is that ignorant, no one is that bad with publicity.
I disagree, Bush is turning into a nazi like dictatorship, first it starts with the false flag operation (9/11), then power is gained by ‘protecting the people’, finally he gets total control and there is no way to stop him without civil unrest, riots, bombings and other such anarchist acts which will send the country into ruin.

If you think Bush isn’t doing it for control why does the laws he passes give control and allow him to execute anybody who is claimed an ‘enemy combatant’ (and that could be ANYBODY)? Or the surveillance he is putting onto the civil population using faked terrorism, or the fake threats of terror, or the near martial law power he can enforce? I could go on for ages but the list is endless.

Those powers don’t aid the businesses.

Just remember his just controlling America, he isn’t the one behind the new world order, just a contributor.

And most probably the current scheme by the New World Order guys shall backfire and the Country shall succumb into a sectarian war and finally become a Islamic Fundamentalist stronghold like Afghanistan.
Lets hope so, apart for the Islamic bit.

I don't like the bush administration but, I don't buy into the whole new world order horse shit. I am sorry but the NWO is a myth. Its a total joke. If you really believe in that then I have a bridge in London to sell you.:rolleyes:


I don't exactly believe it, but I believe it's a possibility since there are many secret societies, members of which are all rich and influential, capable of doing many things.


This guy and his sons where absolute maniacs. His sons would see a women, kill her husband, rape her and, then kill her. Saddam used to take his sons and make them watch as he tortured people. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-04-13-saddam-secrets-usat_x.htm)


The same is also valid for other rich Arab countries. Do you think US' loyal and faithful good sheikhs in Arab countries have only four women as their legal wifes to screw? Of course not. They also do every possible thing to get a woman if they intend to, with one exception that such thing (even if horrible) shall not be covered by Western media since those sheikhs are good tyrants who do not harm US interests.


Sure..... he kept Iraq under control but at the cost of how many lives? The kurd massacre was inhumane. These people where oppressed, they where innocent. Most of the people killed weren't even rebels.


If I were in your boots, I would be very careful about the news you see on your media. Kurds had not been, were not and are not INNOCENT. Apart from their atrocities conducted in Iraq those rats are infiltrating into my country and killed more than 35,000 officers and a few more folds of innocent civilians (who are mostly Kurdish people who opposed their Kurdistan dreams and whom they are calling as their people). So don't buy the bullshit that the Kurds were innocent because they are not.

Kurdish people are primitively tribalistic people meaning that if their clan chief decides something all his serfs comply with it. I mean Kurdish people chose to actively fight not only against the government(s) in region but also start killing all non-kurds and kurds who are opposing their Kurdistan aims. They are currently conducting some sort of ethnic cleansing for establishing their terra ultima, called Kurdistan by the help of coalition forces in Iraq.

However, instead of bearing consequences of fighting (which is killing and getting killed), just like a man should do, they go on their knees before their western masters and start whining like bitches "Saddam is killing us" and putting many exagerations to the story as if Saddam started killing them while they are unarmed in the Nazi fashion, which is a total lie.

Since Kurdish movement involves my country's interest, we are constantly watching the Northern Iraq with a army formation at the border. The bastards are forcing all non-Kurdish people to leave the area and if they refuse they kill them.

At the best rate, when invaders are gone, Kurdish people shall have their long propagandized lie, i.e. massacre as a reality finally, because triason is never forgiven nor forgotton in any country on the surface of the earth. Regards.

We must learn to deal with things in a non-violent manner. The idea of reciprocity as justification for social duty to create an equal society does not seem to be working these days. Violence against an enemy because he or she attacked you is often not the best justification for attacking the attacker. Such actions seem primitive and uncivilized. Today's societies have become civilized as they've learned psychology, philosophy, sociology, and political science. However, people seem to forget all of it at the drop of a hat.

I disagree, Bush is turning into a nazi like dictatorship, first it starts with the false flag operation (9/11), then power is gained by ‘protecting the people’, finally he gets total control and there is no way to stop him without civil unrest, riots, bombings and other such anarchist acts which will send the country into ruin.

Yes, George W. Bush does seem to be quite the social engineer. I've been noticing this more and more as time has passed. However, he will be out of office soon enough.

Bush is a social engineer as Saddam was. International politics seem to be a large mind game. Some people can't play the game, so they destroy the enemy as a unlearned child would destroy an enemy because he or she does not know how to correctly play the game.

I believe the Israelis will procrastinate endlessly and that it may well take the emergence of someone strong to bring about reconciliation.

Maitreya - In a perfect world, that would work. Non-violence would be the answer, and everyone would share everything so that no one is left out.

Welcome to the real world.

You need to be violent in this world. You need to hurt, kill, maim to get what you want.

If someone attacks you and you do not retaliate, you will be destroyed. It extends from the base of our society, through school to the highest reaches of "civilization" just with a thicker and thicker veneer of bullshit on top. See here (http://www.thepaincomics.com/weekly020123.htm) to get the idea.

In this world you are either a sheeple who simply follows the disguised commands of the corporate gods, someone who tries to escape the system and create a utopia for yourself (in most cases fail) or you use the system to your advantage. You sit outside the system, but use the base elements of human nature to further your own gains.

The only thing that distinguishes you from the CEO's sitting in the cushy chairs and making more money than they can ever spend in a lifetime is your sphere of influence, and that you know when to stop.

You need to keep site of your goal and not confuse it with money. You need to do what you have to to get what you need to attain your life's desire and no more.

Remember RTPB 6. Greed Kills.

Alexries, referring to perfect world, I will use movies as an example. In the movie Equilibrium people injected them selves with a drug daily to prevent the brain from feeling emotions. This was actually forced upon by the government.
Or kinda like in Serenity where the government were adding chemicals to the air to calm the anger in humans?

Even then they still had problems.

Gotta love The WarNerd... http://www.exile.ru/2006-December-29/war_nerd_eulogy_saddam.html

Honnestly after the Iraqi's told the US to fuck off after they caught saddam, I'd have given the country back to him. "Here you can have it but don't piss us off or we will level the country".

Speaking of hanging, why don't we hang all "insurgents" caught. Isnt it written that if they are hung they don't "go to allah"? This would make them less inclined to attempting their "free ticket to heaven" routine.


Lastly I'd rather a Communist country with a nuke than a "strapped a bomb to my child because allah told me to" one. All Religious people are dangerous, just most don't have the means to let others know it.

. . . So why the painless death? Why not dissolve him in the Iraqi equivalent of Rooto, or somesuch? Seeing as he did it to many, many others, for far smaller offences. Guess I fail to see the "justice" in a clean, brief, euthanastic death.

I would have much rather seen it been built up like the Superbowl or the World Series or a Monster Truck pull, with expensive tickets, in a large arena. They could have arranged the demise of some less-noted evildoers as opening acts, interspersed with a musical song-and-dance routine and a speech by that days' leader of security. With advertising and concessions, of course. Then the Big Event!

Oh yeah - almost forgot about merchandising! So who'se gonna be selling the "Saddam Exocution Playset"? Little plastic gallows, well-dressed plastic Saddam doll (with extendable neck), prerecorded chants, taunting, and automated trapdoor release at the push of the little red button (batteries not included). If they did, I'd definitely buy one so I could relive the experience over and over.

Saddam was lucky. The muslims usually like to torture their victums. Most islamic hangings are short drop or hoisting from a crane (don't die to fast now!). The executioners did a good job as a matter of fact. Scarf and 1 inch rope,so they didn't cut his head of. The sliding part of the knot was facing front (to impart twist as the noose tightened) and aparently just enough drop to kill him instantly. We should be doing that here as a deterent(gruesome, but humane).

As to true punishment, the last thing you want to do is kill him.

You make his every breath more hideously painful than the last. Seventy eleven different kinds of hell inflicted on him for as long as he stays alive.

Death would be the most desired thing in his life. He would beg and plead for death. But death wouldn't come, until what ever "natural" physical affliction took his life at age ninety.:)

Saddam was lucky. The muslims usually like to torture their victums.

Recently I saw the video of his funeral and the Tikrit guys opened his casket for burial and looked at his face by opening the shroud.

The video showed that there are a few bruises/wounds on his face and his shroud was stained at many locations with blood around torso area, implying that the executioners (who are claimed to be relatives of Saddam's victims), tortured him before or (most probably) after the death.

The subtitles (translations of what is said) show a lot of wovs of revenge. I believe a bloodbath awaits Iraq. Regards.

All good fun.

Everyone knows you need an iron fist to grasp a nettle like the middle east. Saddam had that. Bush doesn't, despite having equally silly legal powers and aparatus.

Saddam tortured people for fun and profit. So did/do many Americans, honing their skills on suspected terrorists. Countries like Iran look at America, and they listen to what America says. The West says "You must respect human rights or else!" yet it detains hundreds (at least) of people without charge, some of whom will never, ever see the light of the sun again, without ever being told why. The West says "Torture is wrong and you must not use it!" yet we hand over people to those who would torture them for us, and we reap the rewards of the intelligence it may or may not get us. No big suprise that they won't do as we say, but choose to do as we do.

Perhaps the USA and the UK has stared for too long into the abyss?

I'll end with a joke.

A man gets snatched off the streets. They won't tell him why he is being held, but there are a few American accents in the questioners.

He knows he is in trouble when they repeatly ask, "Aren't you the suicide bomber, who blew up that bus last week?"

He tries logic, but that doesn't work. They try torture, and that doesn't work.

He knows he is in trouble when they repeatly ask, "Aren't you the suicide bomber, who blew up that bus last week?"

They accuse him of various acts of brutality, whilst beating and torturing him.

Eventually, his mind is broken, and then they let him go. And then he is the man they want him to be.

(http://3pod.com.au/podhome/sounds/idio/songsfromselfsaucing%202006/09%20-%20Suicide%20Bomber.mp3)

Point taken, Jack. We look like hypocrites to them.

And to add to it, they think that we're all Christian's, so the declare a "holy war" which in fact, war. I can't believe people buy into that.

If only they opened up their eyes, past their sheepleness to see that where not all that bad at all...

Muslims/Islamists would take over the world if they had a chance.

A rather belated reply inventorgp, it is the difference between binding yourself and being bound.

The very fact that they needed to bind their citizens by using drugs shows that their world is far from perfect.

I'm sure the US will hand Iraq back over to the Iraqis....when the US has sucked it dry of as much as it can. They should have made Saddam a 'friend'. Like they are friends with Israel.

48 LoP - "Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?"

Nice one Jacks, I'll have to remember that.

So far, the US has dumped around 360 billion into Iraq with no end in sight. Who is sucking who dry?
If that money had been put into developing alternate, renewable energy, we could tell the ragheads to go pound sand up their asses.

My first comment is in reference to the 'would you rather be run by saddam or bush?'

While I am a Bush supporter, no matter what he does his office has a definite ending point. Saddam should have opted for just being voted out of office... it's a little better for the skin.

My second thought is that hanging is too quick.. and traditional.

How about tie him down on a large stage, and give him the old Chinese water torture until he goes crazy..

All the more reason for my statement 10fingers. Why would any sane person pour 360 billion into some rag head shit hole? There needs to be a reason.

Maybe the amount gained from the economy being boosted, tied in with the oil gained. I have no fucking idea, but it just doesn't make sense to do what they did unless there was some kind of ulteriorly motive.

Hmmm . . Pour? Shithole? So where is all that money really going?

Probably not "over there." (i.e. the money is not going to Iraqis). Rather it is likely coming from Our Tax Dollars and going to a few large contracting companies right here in the good ol' USA. Companies like KBR/Halliburton come to mind. Remember that "we" are not one organism, but are composed of millions of separate human primates, each endowed with vested self-interest.

Take a hint from Deep Throat (think Watergate, not Penthouse): Follow the Money . . .

No, I'm sure that most of it isn't going to the Iraqis. Would you give money to the Ragheads? Most of it is going to US contractors and the military, some of it will eventually find it's way back into the US economy. Even if you would have taken the whole 360 billion and handed it out to the entire civilian population of Iraq would that have solved there problems? I doubt it, they're Iraqis, ragheads, they'll find a way to fuck up a good thing.
If the Iraqis were capable of getting there shit together, the US would have been gone a long time ago, but they are obviously not going to.

While there are certain indisputable truths in life, so many of man's problems stem from differences of opinion. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of Iraquis don't nor ever did see America or any other western nation, for that matter, as having their shit together.

Not for one minute either could you convince me that if one were to distribute 360 billion evenly amongst the population of Northern America that all the problems of it's people would be solved either. Nor would it do squat in my country for that matter. It would work out closer to 15 grand each, rather than the roughly 1 grand per person if distributed in the US, but either way we'd still find a way to fuck up too I think you'd find. We're all too greedy. Monkey see, monkey do. Similarly, money see, monkey want.

The only reason many islamic nations aren't over here teling us how to run our shit, and that we've got no fucking idea or morals is because they can't. Not because they don't think that. Being able and willing to do something doesn't neccesarily mean that it's the right thing to do. Isn't that part of the whole reason Iran is seen as a threat? They've finally positioned themselves in such a way as to actually have some kind of follow-through to their rhetoric. If israel and other nations hadn't given them the shits for so long now, there'd be hardly any concern over the potential uses for their current program.

Nor do all bouncers and police members do their job to protect and improve people's lot in life. The sooner this whole fucking mess is over the better, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen things that had a better chance of living being consigned to the abortion bucket.

Guess it's a bit like seeing rubish on the side of the road, it doesn't look so flash, but oh well, fuck-it! Not my fault, nor my problem if I don't look.

The US has a lot of problems, but I would rather live here than in any Arab/Muslim country. I have a very low opinion of these nations, they really cannot develop and maintain a government and economy that can give the people any hope of a better life.

There are very few nations in this world that have their shit together, and we are not one of them. We have no business running around the world trying to fix things when we cannot solve our own problems.

There are retired people here on social security who have worked all their lives to build this nation, paid taxes and who are now living like paupers and have to chose between eating and medical care. Meanwhile we dump money by the trainload into the blackhole of Iraq.

The only nations I have any respect for are the Scandinavians, Canada and China, they tend to their own business.

Well, the rate things are going economically as well as militarily, being fluent in Chinese will be an asset.

Muslims/Islamists would take over the world if they had a chance.
A good point, but it's the Christian Right running the USA.

Speaking Chinese sounds like a way to survive.

However, it is Lockheed Martin running the USA, at least as far as making war pay. I read this in the US Playboy for February. Watch for Hugh Heffner getting sent to Gitmo! You should read this article, it seems well researched: http://playboy.com/magazine/features/lockheed/index.html

They killed off his half-brother the other day. Popped one of the heads off the body! Very sloppy.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,122167,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl

As regards the strife in Iraq, from the same article:
At least 78 people were reported killed or found dead on Sunday, including 41 bullet-riddled bodies discovered in Baghdad. The U.S. military also said two American Soldiers died Sunday from roadside bombs in Baghdad.

On Monday, three policemen were killed and two hurt when a roadside bomb targeted their car in a southeastern section of Iraq's capital.
Sounds like a great place for a holiday.

They killed off his half-brother the other day. Popped one of the heads off the body! Very sloppy.


Geez, don't they have the Internet in Iraq!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Table_of_Drops

Take a look on YouTube - just watched it, some security guard with a cell phone illegally videotaped it. I cant believe they actually did it, I would have though theyd put him in prison for life, or, better yet, put him in a room with all the families and loved ones of the poeple that he ruthlessly tortured and killed.

Take a look on YouTube - just watched it, some security guard with a cell phone illegally videotaped it. I cant believe they actually did it, I would have though theyd put him in prison for life, or, better yet, put him in a room with all the families and loved ones of the poeple that he ruthlessly tortured and killed.

That would have been a large portion of Iraq. You got a building the size of rode island floating around?

Except one third of them would still have thrown themselves in front of the gun for him. So it might be a bit of a mess. Oh, wait...

(It wasn't Saddam's head they pulled off.)

Leaving him in prison would have been stupid, there is a lot more to be said for getting rid of him now than leaving him around to get out on a technicality, or due to a small team of trained nutters either getting in there and rescueing him or getting in there and killing him. No-one can claim to be getting messages from his cell, and he can't be brainwashed into a puppet.

Any way, that short drop is cheaper in the long run.

Except one third of them would still have thrown themselves in front of the gun for him. So it might be a bit of a mess. Oh, wait...

(It wasn't Saddam's head they pulled off.)

Leaving him in prison would have been stupid, there is a lot more to be said for getting rid of him now than leaving him around to get out on a technicality, or due to a small team of trained nutters either getting in there and rescueing him or getting in there and killing him. No-one can claim to be getting messages from his cell, and he can't be brainwashed into a puppet.

Any way, that short drop is cheaper in the long run.

I am not so sure about 1/3 maybe a 10th. Everyone I talked to over there didn't like the guy, and the few that lived alright under his control still didn't really like the guy. I think you would have found a lot more people not stepping up or doing anything at all.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/382178/saddam_the_unseen_video/ LOL Saddam is still alive according to this vid.


A good video to watch is Control Room, google video it.

It shows the propaganda in Iraq's view. The video gives the impression that most of Iraq didn’t want America in there (even though they hate Saddam.)

You have all seen that video where the statue of Saddam is pulled down and Iraq's hitting his head whilst dragging it across the ground? According to one Iraqi media worker (reporter?… forgot what he worked as) he said (forgive me for inaccuracy) "I have lived in Iraq my whole life. I was born here, I was raised here, I would recognise an Iraqi accent, and they were not Iraqis"

About China:
The whole thing started when the polytical power in USA was given to the corporations (70s-80s) (The start of the Grave-a-lization). Then the corporations started to move the production plants to Asia. Reason1: while a corporation has to pay 5000dolars/month for a white worker - to the chinese it payed 100-500 and they are happy. Reason2: resources are cheaper in China. Reason3: lower taxes.

After the iron curtain was torn - powerful economic organizations from western Europe saw in China a force that will balance the world economy - they did not want America to be the only world ruler. According to a brochure published by the "Humboldt Organization" "In the period after 1989 the organization sponsored China with more than 100 bilion euro! Even some of the Chinese Science Academy leaders were Humboldt stipendiants"...

What I found lurking in the net:
"""U.S. federal funding for scientific programs for Fiscal Year
2007 is in danger of being subjected to a freeze at 2006 levels,
which would adversely affect critical investments in research and
development, national security, education, and other areas such
as NSF and DOE Office of Science initiatives. Find out more and
urge your elected officials to support science funding"""
http://www.congressweb.com/cweb4/index.cfm?orgcode=OSA

""As a constituent, your voice is heard loudest in the Capitol Hill offices of those men and women who represent you in Congress.""

So, urge them! Write to them immediately!!! Write to the beloved Bush administration begging them not to cut fundings!
Do not forget to ask for "Learn Chinese in 5 Easy Steps" CD too.

It shows the propaganda in Iraq's view. The video gives the impression that most of Iraq didn’t want America in there (even though they hate Saddam.)

You have all seen that video where the statue of Saddam is pulled down and Iraq's hitting his head whilst dragging it across the ground? According to one Iraqi media worker (reporter?… forgot what he worked as) he said (forgive me for inaccuracy) "I have lived in Iraq my whole life. I was born here, I was raised here, I would recognise an Iraqi accent, and they were not Iraqis"

As for Iraqis want America or not is a very complicated issue. The problem is not whether or not they want, because nobody listens to genuine Iraqis.

The actual problem is the motive behind the war and choosing the most tribalistic group of Iraq that imperialists played their cards on. They are as socially primitive as Taliban in Afghanistan and believe me within a few years (decades) US public shall start discussing Kurdish terrorism against US, just like they are now discussing Al-Qaeda, core cadre of which was trained, supported and bankrolled by our big brother against reds in Afghanistan.

Since they are the most primitive group in Iraq still living as clans, they are the least liked amongst the non-Kurdish population in Iraq. In addition, thanks to support of certain intelligence organizations, they have been waging a war against the governments in the region not only the Iraqi government but also other governments too for establishing their Kurdistan. Their terrorist activities include killing civilians, even the people they call as their own people, who opposed their political agenda.

Actually I cannot blame Saddam for killing them since they are triballistic themselves, if you punish one member of a clan, they relentlessly fight against you and you have to kill the rest of them too, because they are fanatical blockheads, doing every bidding of their clan leaders.

NBK call them as their proxies out of his courtesy but I call them puppets and foot soldiers. I call them foot soldiers, and non-Kurdish Iraqis call them foot soldiers and hate them by every part of their hearts.

Important note: The difference of definition stems from the fact that when a terrorist group is useful to new world order guys, they are marked as freedom fighters by them (example, Afghan Mujahedeen, f*cking Stallone even made a movie about them). And when a terrorist group is not useful or against them, they mysteriously became terrorists (example, again Afghan Mujahedeen, which is now called as Al-Kaeda).

Similarly, regular terrorists (as a bad combination, triballistic terrorists) as a useful tool of new world order guys have become underdog victim of Saddam and praised as freedom fighters. However, they have been and are terrorists.

The Kurdish terrorists recently intensified their silent (i.e. not covered by Western Media) ethnic cleansing operations in Northern Iraq they embarked on since the first gulf war. They are forcing non-Kurdish population in Northern Iraq to leave the area, extorting their land and if the inhabitants refuse, they simply kill them. Those kils are never blamed on them, because they are silent (i.e. not covered by Western Media) kills.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

The above link explains why I'm talking about these events in Iraq. The above link indicates with PHOTOS that the famous scene that the freedom loving GI-Joe hugging Iraqis taking down the evil leader Saddam Hussein's statue is actually a STAGED MEDIA EVENT.

The reporter even identified the guys who acted in such staged event. They are Kurdish traitors who are feeding their demon seed children from the money coming from blood of Iraqis. If I were Iraqi, I would not only kill that man but kill all his family, feeding him and his family's remains to porks, because that fuıcking traitor rat deserves it. But the problem is if you kill him, you have to kill his entire clan, because they shall declare a blood feud on you, doing everything to backstab you. :mad:

When you kill their clan to defend yourself, they shall kneel before their western masters and start whining like bitches, presenting themselves as a victim of massacre. If they cannot bear consequences of fighting, like a man does then they should not be fighting. F*cking coward mecaneries. :mad:

Sorry for a long and harsh post, but I'm really depressed and this post might be one of the last posts I'm making here (because of a possible war between my country and puppet government of Iraq and worst of all maybe eventually the invaders, thereby causing unplugging of our internet connection for a while):

A few days ago, terrorist puppet (in western media's jargon, Iraqi President) talabani's men start killing Turkmens in Kirkuk city of Iraq, since they want to include Mousul and Kirkuk in Kurdish territories (soft name of Kurdistan) and in near future a referendum shall take place to decide whether or not these cities are Kurdish cities.

Unfortunately cock suckers in Washington D.C. have been stalling my country's government with regard to Kurdish terrorism not only in Iraq but also in my country since the invasion. They even established a bogus coordinator's desk (or whatever f*ck it's called in English) to pretend they are doing something to prevent PKK (a separatist kurdish terrorist organization) terrorism in my country and protect rights of Turkmens in Iraq.

However, a recent video footage indicated that US government has no such intention since a group of GI Joes who have been notified by US government to our general staff as a raid party to a PKK camp, which was harbored within the territories of Iraq, were joking with armed kurdish terrorists who had killed more than 50 thousand officers (mostly civil servants) and a few more folds of civilians (not only non-Kurds but also Kurds as a false flag operation), causing several hundreds of billions of dollars damages.

Within a few days, (maybe even now) our National Assembly shall hold a closed session to decide what military options, they shall exercise in Iraq, and most probably to authorize our government to declare war on Iraq, because our beloved big brother is actually a part even active supporter / player of this Kurdish terrorism game and enough is enough.

I'm not into fighting G.I. Joes, however the US government also whines about it and I hope we never have to engage each other.

I hope two governments find out a way out and we don't have to fight. Regards.

Perhaps not 1/3rd or even 1/10th, but enough for it to get really messy, really fast.

The statue coming down, it was utterly fake. They hacked at it for ages, then eventually they hooked it to a Bradley (iirc) and pulled it down with that. Most copies only show you a jump cut between nearly down and all the way down, as they cut out the bits where the US soldiers hooked on the chains and backed up the vehicle!

Akinrog, see my PM. Stay safe, and have a few plans.

Perhaps not 1/3rd or even 1/10th, but enough for it to get really messy, really fast.

The statue coming down, it was utterly fake. They hacked at it for ages, then eventually they hooked it to a Bradley (iirc) and pulled it down with that. Most copies only show you a jump cut between nearly down and all the way down, as they cut out the bits where the US soldiers hooked on the chains and backed up the vehicle!

Akinrog, see my PM. Stay safe, and have a few plans.


They were asked to yank it down, buy some English speaking Iraqis, then they had to get clearance to do so.

From all I’ve seen it was a show, even if Iraq’s asked to pull it down, but they were probably the Kurds or Muslims from other countries so really it would still be a meaningless media show.

Inferno, were did you hear about that consent? The media?

One thing I see not mentioned here is that, evil bastard or not, at least Saddam went to his death with dignity. Most translations show him asking the people taunting him at his execution if "this is what it now means to be a man in Iraq".

I've also never understood the pathetic attempt to link Saddam with Islamic terrorism. There are (or were) 800 000 odd christian Iraqi's in Iraq under Saddam. There was even a sizeable Jewish contingent who were free to worship. There were liquor outlets, most of which were run by Iraqi christians or jews. These liquor outlets and the jewish and christian communities were targeted first. I read a newspaper article in which a christian Iraqi stated that they were not celebrating Christmas for the first time in their lives due to their fear for their lives.

Saddam was a secular dictator that would brook no challenge to his rule. Islamic fundamentalists were his sworn enemy. Bin Laden has referred to Saddam in the past as an infidel. There was no link between him and them...nor will there ever be. Was he a nasty evil piece of work? Absolutely. But then there are many just like him in the world.

What happened in Iraq was nothing less than the rape of a nation by Corporate America. Oil revenues will pay for the reconstruction of the country by favoured corporate contractors from 'The Coalition of the Willing." The military got to use munitions from existing stocks approaching shelf life expiry, whilst the large defense contractors get to sell munitions to replace those stocks. It is not rocket science (or rogue science:D )

All said, an unholy mess with thousands dead so some fatcats can get a little richer. At least the monster showed how a man goes to his execution with a little dignity, like him or not.