Lost
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posted December 18, 2000 07:11 PM
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I was wondering what everyone's favorite type of flash powder is, and why (ease to make, best flash, etc...). Facts about flash, stability, etc. would also be nice...
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-Lost
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MacCleod
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posted December 19, 2000 12:48 AM
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I've tried a dozen or so mixes over the years and my favorite is a chlorate mix consisting of 14 parts KClO3/5 parts 400 mesh atomized aluminum (measured by weight).It's an extremely high velocity mix,fast enough to self-confine/detonate in even small amounts (a pea-sized pile when lit makes a sharp crack,about the same as an equal amount of fresh HMTD or AP).The down side;it's more sensitive to heat/friction/shock than perchlorate mixes.I would'nt recommend making/using this to anyone who isn't already familiar with the safe handling/use of chlorates and flash powders in general (I'd hate to see a fellow pyro-fiend get injured in the line of duty!);perchlorate mixes are safer.With that said...The KClO3 must be finely powdered (like baby powder)for this to work well.I've found,in general,the finer the ingredients,the faster the flash,and the noisier the salute.Now for some safety tips (for those who aren't familiar)- Never grind chlorates/metals together!.Mix only small amounts at one time (less chance for injury if an accident happens).To safely mix,tape a plastic yogurt container to a 6 or 8 ft.pole,add the ingredients,put the lid on,then gently roll the pole back and forth across a smooth table top for 5 or 10 minutes.Finally,if making salutes,never allow hot glue/epoxy to contact the flash powder;seperate with a paper plug or tissue paper first.With a good high-speed mix,you need only fill the casing one/third full to get a good loud bang.
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Jumala
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posted December 19, 2000 07:18 PM
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Yes, perclorate and alluminium is very powerful. I´ve seen an old TV show where they use 100g of the stuff at ones.
It was a powerful detonation.
It is also used in illegal firecrackers and in earlier times it was a filling for handgrenades.
I think it could be possible to use the mix in detonators to set off RDX or PETN. This would be fine because it is more save than AP.


Zero
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posted December 19, 2000 09:32 PM
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I like the good ol' magnesium/KNO3 mix. I use about a 2:3 ratio, and it works quite well in firecrackers and the like. I've never had any stability problems, but you've gotta watch the moisture with magnesium mixes.

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vehemt
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posted December 19, 2000 10:48 PM
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70%KCLO4 to 30%AL seems to be the favourite by pro pyros (rec.pyrotechnics).


CodeMason
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posted December 21, 2000 07:08 AM
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My favourites are: 6 parts potassium nitrate with 3 parts aluminium powder and 1 part sulfur, and good ol' 2 parts potassium (per)chlorate and 1 part aluminium powder.


Agent Blak
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posted December 21, 2000 02:01 PM
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It all depends on what it is being used for. 50/50 Mg/KNO3 is brighter than you can imagine but I don't find there to be a lot of power. I like Pyrdex(orange FFg)/Mg(Some Powder and a few flakes for Nice sparks). it is fairly safe and not a lot of muckin' around with things.
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Lost
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posted December 21, 2000 08:29 PM
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Blak (or anyone else that knows), how does aluminum work instead of magnesium? Also, how fine does it need to be, and if its really fine, how do you get it that way (or do you just buy it like that) ?
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-Lost
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Agent Blak
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posted December 21, 2000 08:50 PM
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From What I have heard Al/KNO3 are dangerous. Apperently ver moister sensitive. I herd it ignite when it gets wet. But I don't know this for Fact. High Mesh Al Powder(400+) with KClO4 Is very popular.
With my experience Mg is better because it is more reactive.
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A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata

Agent Blak----OUT!!


Anthony
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posted December 22, 2000 07:02 PM
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Yeah, metals and nitrates are something to watch out for in pyro, can't remeber exactly why off the top of my head. I don't think it has anything to do with the nitrate absorbing moisture because chlorates are hygroscopic (especially NaCLO3) and they are safe to use with metal fuels.


MacCleod
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posted December 23, 2000 01:17 AM
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I spoke to a salesperson at Pyrotek some time ago about their 1000 mesh magnesium powder.When I mentioned "flash powder" he informed me that most any fast,well mixed alum. flash will self-confine and detonate in larger quantities,but mag.-based will do so in any amount,large or small.Definitely more reactive!.With either (especially mag.),the finer the particle size,the faster the burn rate (more noise/destructive power!),and the more reactive to moisture.
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[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited December 23, 2000).]


Mr Cool
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posted December 23, 2000 11:44 AM
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My favourite is BaSO4 (a high temp. oxidiser)/Al in a 3:2 ratio by weight. It's stable, produces a load "BOOOM!" even in an open tube, and is not hydroscopic.
In my opinion, the following are good things to remember when making flash comps.: never use chlorates as they are unstable, never use sodium salts as they absorb moisture which can be dangerous as well as reducing power, use Al instead of Mg because it's safer, use at least 300 mesh coated metal powder and make only an ounce or so at a time. I'd also just like to point out that flash powders can't detonate because they're fuel/oxidiser mixes. They can be set off by shock, and maybe they can produce enough shock to set themselves off when a bit of it burns, but this is not the same thing.
P.S. If you have access to a large private field, put 2lb of flash in a tube with a LONG fuse, light it and run! KAABOOOOM!!!!


Anthony
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posted December 23, 2000 02:09 PM
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Flash for commercial fireworks uses chlorates/perchlorates and they wouldn't dare but something unstable and dangerous in the hands of idiots.


MacCleod
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posted December 23, 2000 02:20 PM
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So in your opinion fuel/oxidizer combo's can't detonate?.Quote from U.S.Gov. manual "Two Component High Explosive Mixtures"-Composite explosives are gen. two or three component systems mixed together just prior to use,and when simply mixed together,form powerful and/or brisant explosives.Composite explosives in the past have consisted of various oxidizing agents (e.g.Potassium nitrate,Potassium chlorate,Potassium perchlorate,Ammonium nitrate,and Amm. perchlorate)mixed with various reducing agents,(e.g. Charcoal,Sulfur,Sugar,Red phosphorus,Aluminum,and Magnesium-"fuels").These mixtures form powerful explosives(but with low brisance).Also(not mentioned above)is KCl03/vaseline,Which must be confined/shot with a cap,but completely detonates!.I beg to differ with ya,Bro!The basic principle of two-part explosives is a fuel and an oxidizer!.
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Mr Cool
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posted December 30, 2000 04:47 PM
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I might be wrong, but I seriously doubt it (sorry, I don't mean to sound big headed!)
Where, in that quote, does it say that fuel/oxidiser mixtures can detonate? They can be set off by a shock, e.g. from a detonator, and therefore they can do something similar to detonation as the shock wave travels through the explosive, but it is not detonation. It is deflagration initiated by a mechanical shock rather than a flame. Detonation requires the "fuel" and "oxidiser" to be chemically combined in an unstable molecule, that can be decomposed by shock. The fuel and oxidiser parts then re-combine into more stable, less energetic molecules such as H2O, CO2 N2 etc.
And yes, the KClO3/vaseline mixture DOES detonate. It IS made up of a fuel and an oxidiser, but it isn't used as such because the proportions are all wrong. It is VERY fuel defficient. It is a high explosive. The vaseline only takes up about 2-10% by weight of the finished explosive, and therefore is not used as a fuel because there's not enough of it. It's just a binder, and it allows the shockwave to travel better by making the mixture more uniform in density. You can detonate KClO3 by itself.


BoB-
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posted December 30, 2000 08:52 PM
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Only primary's (that I'm aware of anyway) can detonate from deflegration.
Flash's made from Chlorates or Perchlorates can detonate from shockwaves though.


MacCleod
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posted December 30, 2000 10:52 PM
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I didn't want to appear jerky,either,Mr. Cool.But after I talked to the Pyrotek rep.,I tested several different mixes and found that the ones with more alum.(5/7,2/3)burned quickly,but mixes with almost 3 times more KCl03 than alum.(5/14,15/42)when ignited would go off with a loud "bang"and I could feel the concussion from 6 feet away.I'm not implying that this is cap sensitive,only that in larger quantities it is self-confining,and explodes rather than just burning (as do larger quantities of some primaries).I did the tests simply to see if the guy knew what he was talking about,as he claimed the company was started by pyrotechnicians/rocket enthusiasts.Also,I still believe that deflagration -is- burning,and an explosion -is- an explosion (decomposition at extreme velocity),not something similiar to a detonation.I'm so adamantly supportive only because I've witnessed it first-hand,as has anyone who's tinkered with touching off larger quantities of HMTD or AP(little to no flame,only a "bang").P.S.,the book is about mixes that can be detonated.
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"There can be only one!"

[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited December 30, 2000).]


tropical6969
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From: oz
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posted December 31, 2000 02:55 AM
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i rekon permanganate flash is pretty cool allthough i have failed to use it as an explosive by confining it its easy to by and make so thats why its my favorite thing to play with besides NBK2000s huge penis which is so full of cum for me to drink up .
Ahhh....to worship at the temple of his cock again. I'm so lonely without a penis, any penis, up my ass. Hell, I've been cruising mens rooms looking for cock because I'm sooooo hungry for loads!

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for whoever is killed shall be on their head.............................................. ............a kitchen knife

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited January 01, 2001).]


Agent Blak
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posted December 31, 2000 02:10 PM
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You could set it of with glycerine also.
What are the Oxidizing Properties of ClO(ie. CaClO)? One of the down side to it is it would be corosive.

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A wise man once said:
"It is Better to Die on Your Feet; Than to Live on your Knees "
--Zappata

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Mr Cool
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posted January 02, 2001 09:22 AM
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Hi
Firstly, to MacCleod: I don't want to get into an argument, so I'll just accept that fuel/oxidiser mixes can detonate. Out of interest, what is your definition of a detonation? Maybe mine is wrong, but I've always just assumed that in order to be, strictly speaking, a detonatable material, it must be a single chemical. Obviously they can be mixed with other things in compound explosives and PBX's, but I always thought that in these things at least one of the components can detonate independantly. I didn't think F/O mixes actually detonated.
Peace out.
In reply to Agent Blak: The ClO cathion is not a good oxidiser. Obviously, it only contains a third of the oxygen of a chlorate, or a quarter of the oxygen of a perchlorate cathion. Also, it is more stable than either of these two, so it's harder to get the oxygen to react.
(am I right in thinking that a cathion is a negative ion, rather than the ion which is attracted to the cathode? It's been so long since I've had to use this terminology that I wasn't sure!)


J
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posted January 02, 2001 02:22 PM
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The argument over whether flash detonates or not regularly comes up in rec.pyrotechnics. As far as I'm aware, there is no definite answer! I think the strongest argument was that flash can be made to detonate if initiated by a high explosive, but it can't detonate simply by being lit.
Also, KNO3/Al flash is considered dangerous, as it can spontaneously ignite. I can't remember why, but I've heard it from several experienced pyros.

J


Pyroboy
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posted January 06, 2001 02:12 AM
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I've been told by Larry Crump (some of you may know him) that KCLO4/Al flash will detonate when there is more than a pound of it.


MacCleod
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posted January 06, 2001 10:27 PM
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Just checking in to tell Mr Cool,sorry I acted like a dick!.Flash powder/salutes are my favorite things(I love the NOISE!).Just got a little over-excited,I guess.
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the freshmaker
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posted January 28, 2001 06:25 AM
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my favorit is KMnO4 flashpowder.
I use this ratio; 12gr KMnO4, 3gr. Sulfur and 4gr. aluminium. It's very powerfull
I've heard it should be quite sensitive, so be carefull


J
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posted January 28, 2001 03:04 PM
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Damn right it's sensitive. It can spontaneously ignite with no warning or apparent reason. Just stick to Chlorate/Perchlorate as an oxidizer.
J


firebreether
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posted January 30, 2001 02:37 PM
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Would it be possible to have an AN, Al flash type powder? or would it be too sensitive, or too moisture sensitive because of the AN being so hygroscopic? I wouldn't make lots of it, just some salutes or something that I would immediately use after I made them. Mabe a flashbang?


blackadder
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posted January 30, 2001 04:01 PM
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Ammonium Nitrate doesn't like Aluminium, a reaction will start, which will cause the substance to heat up and/or detonate/burn. This can be stopped by adding a small amount of boric acid.


firebreether
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posted January 31, 2001 07:24 PM
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Not saying your wrong, but Al is much less reactive then Mg, so why doesn't this happen with it? I saw a film in chem and a guy dropped a cm peice of K in H2O. Boom smoke


blackadder
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posted February 01, 2001 06:22 AM
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I dunno, but still, I wouldn't risk it with Al or Mg. When I used to live in the Bahamas, and I was about 11, I had a teacher called Mr.Nicolson. He was a real cool teacher, and he used to, now and then, get a 1 inch cube of sodium and chuck it in the sink filled with water. It would flare up and catch fire (it doesn't with small pieces, but with large pieces it does), and skate around on the water for about a second, and then explode really loud. He said that when he was teaching in manchester one of his students dropped a jar of Na into the toilets at his school! He got expelled.
[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited February 01, 2001).]


Anthony
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posted February 01, 2001 10:23 AM
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Why don't you try it and find out? It won't take long to mix some AN and Al.
I don't think AN is a very powerful oxidiser otherwise it would be used more in pyro, plus the extreme hygroscopicity would be a real problem.


J
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posted February 01, 2001 12:27 PM
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Another reason AN isn't common in pyro is that there are much better alternatives available that are no more difficult to get hold of. Also, if you can get hold of Al or Mg powder good enough for flash, you can surely get KCLO3/KCLO4 and certainly nitrates. AN may be converted to KNO3 easilly enough, something I'll be doing this summer and writing up on my website.
From what I've heard, AN reacts nastilly with many things, including Al, copper salts and chlorates. AN and sodium chlorate mixed together form small amounts of amonium chlorate when wet, IIRC. I don't know why exactly, I'm not a chemist. If you're going to do any unusual experiments, read up on them as much as you can first, don't just information from the net at face value.

J

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Starforce
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posted February 02, 2001 11:00 AM
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The most powerful flash is Kclo3/mg with a litte bit mno2, its unstable but very good and powerful more than kclo4/alu.


jin
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posted February 02, 2001 09:05 PM
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i read somewhere that titanium hydride or zirconium hydride and chlorate mixtures made the most powerfull flash powders.btw titanium hydride costs $370 for 500 grams in the uk.

[This message has been edited by jin (edited February 15, 2001).]


blackadder
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posted February 03, 2001 07:12 AM
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I read somewhere that if you mix KMNO4 (potassium permanganate, I think I'm right with the formula) with a chlorate, then you get an extremely powerful substance which is ridiculously sensitive.


zaibatsu
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posted February 03, 2001 08:36 AM
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Not strictly on the same topic, but can flash detonate? I'm not talking about as a primary explosive (from heat or shock) but from a cap? This would be interesting if it could be detonated, i am talking mainly about the KClO3/Al mix, but i guess all flash could be included. I know KClO3/vaseline can detonate, so chlorate flash should, and it should be easier. Any data on such compositions? (Dv etc)
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Anthony
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posted February 03, 2001 04:19 PM
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Well, I'd say anything with a chlorate in it could!
Can't certian kinds of flash, in large enough amounts pass from a deflageration to detonation wave?

My favorite is Red, it can consist of 50 parts magnesium powder and 50 parts of strontium nitrate. Alternatively green, which is 50 parts magnesium powder and 50 parts barium nitrate.

Kendall
'There are no problems which can't be solved with a suitable application of explosives'

The red works very nicely, from about 20 or more feet away. I've had problems with that green though. I find it is often to bright and the color gets washed out. Perhaps a bit of chlorine donor and hexamine/lactose would help to cool it and provide extra color. I don't know how far I have to be away, but I used about 1g of composition and was a good 75-100 feet away which is about all my yard will allow for. There was a tad green tinge around the flash envelope, but not to the point where I would call it a good green flash.

With the risk of repeating myself, a green Mg-fuelled composition can not produce adequate green colour whithout a chlorine donor!

The best green flash powders I have seen have been somewhat cooler burning, i.e. containing a little less Mg compared to ordinary flash powders based on Mg. The reson for this, as I said before elsewhere, is that the excited BaCl molecule is not as stable as SrCl at higher temperatures.

This means that an effective barium-based green flash must contain a chlorine donor and some cooler burning fuel. Mg is added in smaller amounts to keep reactivity at a decent level.

Finally, purity is of paramount importance. Traces of calcium, sodium or strontium will wash out the colour to a greenish yellow or white flame.

hi everyone!

i preffer:

kmno4 - 2 parts
pam - 1 part
s - 1 part

this is very good FB , but also very unstable (pam doesnt have stearine)

also very good mixture for fb:

5,1 g ba(no3)2
3,0 g pam
1,9 g s

greetz!

Pam? I doubt you mean the spray for cooking pans, what do you mean?
I also wouldn't say anything that is "very unstable" is "very good". I would rather use a little more of a stable mixture and keep all my fingers.

ohh sorry
pam is 'proszek aluminiowo-magnezowy' (in polish)
in english it mean
aluminium-magnesium powder

Magnalium(same as your pam) does preform well in flashes. I find it gives a flash on par with equal mesh and particle shape magnesium. I still find the use of Potassium Permanganate in pyrotechnics in general very stupid. I find it is too unstable. Mixing it with sulfur doesn't help it any. I've tried it before, but I still find perchlorate based flashes to be superior. They are more stable, and definatly produce a sharper report. I imagine it may be brighter as well. There is no MnO2 darkening the flash. While this doesn't matter much, I'd prefer a nice white flash to a greyish one.

Magnalium(same as your pam) does preform well in flashes. I find it gives a flash on par with equal mesh and particle shape magnesium. I still find the use of Potassium Permanganate in pyrotechnics in general very stupid. I find it is too unstable. Mixing it with sulfur doesn't help it any. I've tried it before, but I still find perchlorate based flashes to be superior. They are more stable, and definatly produce a sharper report. I imagine it may be brighter as well. There is no MnO2 darkening the flash. While this doesn't matter much, I'd prefer a nice white flash to a greyish one.

hi!
i want to add that magnalium based mixtures (etc. flashes) are more dangerous than these based normal aluminium ([in my country] magnalium doesn't have styrene layer, and in couse of that it is more unstable and dangerous)

ohh poor english
greets

My greatest flash is:
KMnO4+Al+S
3 : 2 : 1

By weight...

I have used KMnO4, Al, S before, it is very nice, however I stopped usng it due to its inability to be stored safely and its sensitivity.

My favourite flash powder is

potassium perchlorate.............................50%
Aluminum.......................................... 23%
sulfur............................................ 27%

The sulfur can be replaced by antimony trisulfide and the sound of a salute made with this composition will change very little.

Please do not sign your posts!

My favorite is:
15 parts of KClO3
5 parts of aluminum powder
2 Parts of C
(all measured by weight)

it´s really that this mixture isn´t the most stable, and sure, can be improved. But it give me a lot of fun.

Hi,

My favorite flash comp is...

72% high grade kcl04 milled to an extremely fine dust.
28% german dark Al 1200 mesh
And finnaly some cab-o-sil (around 1g or so per every 100g of flash).
The cab-o-sil will fluff up the powder, keep out moisture, and increase
burn rate.

This comp is very loud, relatively safe if handled with care, easy to make, and turn cobs into very loud mini grenades (try it you'll see what I mean).:D

Okay, I've been manufacturing my own low-order explosives for about two years now, but I've never been able to make KNO3/Aluminum flash compositions ignite. Like, at all.

I powder the KNO3 with a mortar and pestle as much as is humanly possible. I've experimented with adding sulfur or not, tried all sorts of ratios, but nothing seems to work.

I know the Al is good because I bought it for a small fortune on eBay. So far, all I've got this mixture to do is burn slowly with a yellow flame. Can anyone help?

(Use paragraph breaks in the future. NBK)

People on e-bay will sell you anything you're willing to pay for. What is the mesh size and particle shape of the Al powder.

You should really use KClO4 insteed of KNO3. If you use KNO3, then you should use sulphur.

The only use I currently make of KNO3 in flash has been for slow flash to break ball shells.

You can actualy just dust an additional 10% of flash grade Al over fine black powder and use it for "aluminized BP" salutes. This worked well for larger aerial salutes, it gives a different, "boomier" sound than the perchlorate or chlorate flash powders, and a louder sound than plain BP for a given container strength and volume.

A few years back, you could buy US Gov't. surplus BP for about $1.00 per pound in forklift pallet size lots. This made such uses economical-

I figgured out that the problem was particle shape.

Apparently I bought spherical which is usless for flash. Anyone know if spherical still works in ANFO?

This week I will be trying a few different mix of FP w/ various grades of Al from ebay and from skylighter (actual german dark). Its not much to some of you, but for me its the very beginning and Im trying to get a feel for how it reacts with different mesh/flake of Al and KClO4.

My favorite flash powder composition is KCLO3 and Al in a 6.8/3.2 ratio. The Al is 5 microns and the KCLO3 is a very fine dust.

This composition is even more sensitive than the standard KCLO4 based flash and should be treated with great respect. Just a couple of grams in the right tube is very loud. Even 0.2 grams in a thick paper case makes a nice bang.

A very good FP is: 5 parts KCLO4, 5 parts Bullseye, and only 1 part Ecka 5413 or equalivent dark flake Al. I've used this formula in both hangar-tube salutes and in a salute "cannon". You can go as low as 3 parts Bullseye, but dB suffers.

The cannon is 1" OD X 7/16 ID X 6 1/2" long 160K psi steel, one end counter bored with 29/64" bit to take a 1/2" NF tap. Breech plug is 1/2NF Grade 8 bolt,1" in length. Fuse is visco, fuse hole is 7/64".

It is held verticle by a weight set collar/ set screw that is made of cast iron.

A piece of 3"X3" newspaper is used as an overwad, packed down with a bike spoke/ nipple fashoned into a "sheep crook". .75g of the above flash will buzz your ears at 30 feet. With a wall thickness of > .28", this will take about whatever you want to throw at it. This 4th., we'll see...