I'm imagining that...
I happen to be resident on property that is abundant in cow manure. Reading over some articles I realized that N03 levels in the sludge were an environmental concern, along with certain sulfides and ammonia gas. I was wondering if it is possible to seperate out certain chemicals that might prove useful for making combustable compounds. Educational interest...

I'm imagining that...
I happen to be resident on property that is abundant in cow manure. Reading over some articles I realized that N03 levels in the sludge were an environmental concern, along with certain sulfides and ammonia gas. I was wondering if it is possible to seperate out certain chemicals that might prove useful for making combustable compounds. Educational interest...

Can be done and even an obsolete old process involved usage of animal waste products in making saltpeter of some kind for production of black powder. I can look around for acctual recipies for it - but my advice is to forget it if you want good quantity/yield, but if you plan to become an unabomber :) you couldn't find an approach stealthier than that (which is funny since everyone will notice its "aroma") :D. If you want to play with manure go for methane production it's more resonable and it gives good amount of it. And you can still become an unabomber ;).

Can be done and even an obsolete old process involved usage of animal waste products in making saltpeter of some kind for production of black powder. I can look around for acctual recipies for it - but my advice is to forget it if you want good quantity/yield, but if you plan to become an unabomber :) you couldn't find an approach stealthier than that (which is funny since everyone will notice its "aroma") :D. If you want to play with manure go for methane production it's more resonable and it gives good amount of it. And you can still become an unabomber ;).

Yes...
I heard that manure was heated to extract saltpeter (or should that be saltpetre?) for the earliest Chinese black powder recipies. I don't know about purity, but the yield can't have been that bad; the stuff was supposed to crystalize out in fairly large quantities. Interesting idea about the methane; it'd take a heck of a long time to make a decent FAE though:D

Yes...
I heard that manure was heated to extract saltpeter (or should that be saltpetre?) for the earliest Chinese black powder recipies. I don't know about purity, but the yield can't have been that bad; the stuff was supposed to crystalize out in fairly large quantities. Interesting idea about the methane; it'd take a heck of a long time to make a decent FAE though:D

We actually run a methane digester to produce power, but I am wondering if it would be possible to take out nitrates in a cost effective manner to keep up with environmental standards and lessen treatment costs by selling the N03's we take from the sludge.

We actually run a methane digester to produce power, but I am wondering if it would be possible to take out nitrates in a cost effective manner to keep up with environmental standards and lessen treatment costs by selling the N03's we take from the sludge.

There is definately a manual floating around the net allegedly from american civil war times that goes in depth into potassium nitrate from various organic matter. I'd be thouroghly surprised if our very own FTP didn't have it.

There is definately a manual floating around the net allegedly from american civil war times that goes in depth into potassium nitrate from various organic matter. I'd be thouroghly surprised if our very own FTP didn't have it.

Here are some hints
Charcoal and sulfur were relatively easy to obtain. Saltpeter was not too hard to obtain in southeast China, where the hot and alternating wet / dry climate encouraged its creation on manure piles, but it was much more troublesome to find in cool and damp Northern Europe. Producing saltpeter was an obnoxious business. Manure was collected and stored in a covered pit that was periodically "watered" with urine and turned over. The urine of wine-drinkers was favored, since it helped encourage the growth of the bacteria that generated the saltpeter, though at the time of course nobody knew exactly why it helped produce more saltpeter. After a year or so, the waste was "refined" to extract the saltpeter. It seems plausible that most people who worked in the business didn't have much social contact with those who didn't.

The link : http://www.vectorsite.net/ttpyro1.html

SALTPETER MAKING
Nitre, potassium nitrate KNO3, more commonly known as saltpetre, is formed in warm climates by bacterial action during the decomposition of excreta and vegetable refuse. Where people and animals live in close proximity, debris accumulates in and around their homes. The contact between putrefying material, alkaline soil, plant ashes, air and moisture allows 'nitrification' - that is the conversion of nitrogen compounds from animal and plant decay into nitrates which penetrate the soil. Dissolved in rainwater, the deposits evaporate on the surface to form crude saltpetre, as a white flower like powder. This must be washed to remove earth and impurities; then boiled and evaporated to refine it.

The link : http://www.salt.org.il/saltpet.html

Other links : http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/saltpeter.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltpeter
P.S. Look for "nitre" on google. You shall be surprised to results. HTH

Nha nha nha (evil laughter) :D An old (and rare book) on saltpeter making :
http://docsouth.unc.edu/lecontesalt/leconte.html

Actually this issue and above mentioned book / pamphelet was covered by Metafractal (an old member) at least two years ago here under the title of nitre-beds.

Here is the link : http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/archive/index.php/t-1842

Here are some hints
Charcoal and sulfur were relatively easy to obtain. Saltpeter was not too hard to obtain in southeast China, where the hot and alternating wet / dry climate encouraged its creation on manure piles, but it was much more troublesome to find in cool and damp Northern Europe. Producing saltpeter was an obnoxious business. Manure was collected and stored in a covered pit that was periodically "watered" with urine and turned over. The urine of wine-drinkers was favored, since it helped encourage the growth of the bacteria that generated the saltpeter, though at the time of course nobody knew exactly why it helped produce more saltpeter. After a year or so, the waste was "refined" to extract the saltpeter. It seems plausible that most people who worked in the business didn't have much social contact with those who didn't.

The link : http://www.vectorsite.net/ttpyro1.html

SALTPETER MAKING
Nitre, potassium nitrate KNO3, more commonly known as saltpetre, is formed in warm climates by bacterial action during the decomposition of excreta and vegetable refuse. Where people and animals live in close proximity, debris accumulates in and around their homes. The contact between putrefying material, alkaline soil, plant ashes, air and moisture allows 'nitrification' - that is the conversion of nitrogen compounds from animal and plant decay into nitrates which penetrate the soil. Dissolved in rainwater, the deposits evaporate on the surface to form crude saltpetre, as a white flower like powder. This must be washed to remove earth and impurities; then boiled and evaporated to refine it.

The link : http://www.salt.org.il/saltpet.html

Other links : http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/saltpeter.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltpeter
P.S. Look for "nitre" on google. You shall be surprised to results. HTH

Nha nha nha (evil laughter) :D An old (and rare book) on saltpeter making :
http://docsouth.unc.edu/lecontesalt/leconte.html

Actually this issue and above mentioned book / pamphelet was covered by Metafractal (an old member) at least two years ago here under the title of nitre-beds.

Here is the link : http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/archive/index.php/t-1842

An interesting technique I have recently read of is to use bacteria intended for aquarium filtering set ups in a bio reactor with chicken or other manure. Apparently, the process of nitrate production can be cut to DAYS rather than months with such a reactor, if ph and other parameters are carefully controlled...

This mailing list may be of interest to those of us looking into home preparation of oxidizers.
http://www.accelix.net/pipermail/kno3/

Here's an early treatise on how to make Saltpeter:

http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/lecontesalt/menu.html