zaibatsu
March 6th, 2003, 03:43 PM
Teck
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Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 23, 2001 07:59 PM
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What are some really good uses for HMTD? I dont have much info on it and was wondering what kind of explosive devices you can make with it. Im thinking along the lines of pipe bombs, M-2000's stuff that makes ALOT of noise. And do I light it with just a fuse? How much of this stuff can I handle at one time cus I heard it can detonate under its own weight.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 23, 2001 08:19 PM
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Broadly similar to AP (another peroxide). I don't think it's suitable for large pipe bombs due to its sensitivity.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 23, 2001 08:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW this should be in the Explosive Peroxides section.
vehemt
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From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 23, 2001 11:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And thats just where its headed
MacCleod
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Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 24, 2001 01:30 AM
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HMTD is a bit more powerful than AP,but it's main advantage is that it can be stored much longer without breaking down.If you're making large batches,just seperate it into smaller portions,store them apart and you shouldn't have any troubles.You could use det.'s for larger quantities,but it often detonates with the lightest confinement when lit with a fuse.If you wash it thoroughly,it stores better/longer.Plus it seems to be more unstable if there's any residue leftfrom the solution.
Teck
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Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 24, 2001 02:26 AM
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So HMTD is not a confined explosive it explodes just basicaly if you wraped it in some paper and used a fuse it would explode? no need for paper tubes and stuff like that?
And one more question if you crushed the crystals or handeled them roughly would they explode?
MacCleod
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Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 24, 2001 03:49 AM
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If you wrap some in a tissue and light the edge it'll pop!.But the more confinement you use,the noisier,more powerful it would be(when making M-80's,etc.).I've never attempted to crush any,so I can't honestly answer your last question,although all the literature I've read says it is extremely friction-sensitive.
------------------
"That which does not kill us,makes us stronger"
MasterMayhem
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Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 24, 2001 07:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teck: Please do a god damn search before you ask questions like that.
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 24, 2001 02:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
teck, if you handle HMTD roughly it will explode, it is slightly less sensitive then ap, but if you were sittin there crushing it into powder with a hammer for firecrackers IT WILL EXPLODE, and when you handle any energetic material, just treat like the most sensitive explosive in the world... hope that helps.. and you say youve dealy with flash and bp, one thing for you to know is that if 100 grams of flsh goes off in your face, youll be burnt and probable missin some fingers, if HMTD goes off in your face, you wont even know what happened, you be blown to pices
[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited January 24, 2001).]
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 03:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for info every one. I asked those questions cus I just read about it two days ago and got interested in it. Today I made a small research on AP and HTMD and man is it that powerfull? damn I thought flash powder was a thrill lighting off, but man this stuff is something. Endotherm how much is 100grams of this stuff anyway give me an equevelence on how much that is. I know how much 100 grams of flash powder is but not HTMD. I want to try and make HTMD and see what its all about. I read several recipes and the one on MEGAS site says you can use any acid for AP so I was wondering If I can used citric acid? And one more thing any other precautions I should take while making it other than handle the crystals with care? any more info will be greatly apriciated.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 25, 2001 08:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Citric acid won't work for AP, it's not the best for HMTD either.
100gm is, well 100 grams! It's roughly equal to the power of an average hand grenade (hand grenades typically contain 50-75gm of a more powerful HE)
Handle the cyrstals with extreme care, being very cautious is better than being dead/having no knackers.
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 02:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well teck, 100 grams if hmtd, from my friends experience, that would be equivelant to about 3 times the power of confined flash powder per gram. So id say if you are use to flash powder, you would be very suprised at the power of hmtd, it probably wont be much louder than flash (because u were talkin about m-80's), but the destructive power is far greater. So be very careful with it.
[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited January 25, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 25, 2001 02:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The flash paper would only deflagerate so it's not really comparable to the power of somehting that actually detonates. 100gm would be about a coke can full of fine powder AP. I advise you don't make this about unless you seriously know hwat you are doing/ want to die/have no knackers. This amount of AP would tear you apart!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 25, 2001 03:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, tear you apart and shatter windows in the immediate vicinity. this is ALOT of AP man, this is VERY powerful. a gram, in the right casing could do some serious damage to you. 100 grams is just asinine.
------------------
...Æ
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 08:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLASH PAPER, I MEANT FLASH POWDER, MY BAD
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 25, 2001 08:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
when i first made ap with 27.5% h2o2 I acidently made 450 grams!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 25, 2001 09:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i know a kid who makes about a cup, cup and half each time he makes AP (and he makes this using 3% H2O2... he uses alot) he has plans for the AP every time he makes it though, so it sits for a week only, two weeks at the most.
------------------
...Æ
Teck
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Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 26, 2001 03:13 AM
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I started making HMTD today and I thought I had hexamine tablets but what I have is Triaxane Tablets military type for starting fires heating food etc.., so I need to know if it will work the same as Methenamine, or hexamine and also, is it alright to use car battery acid in the mixture cus I think its a sulfiric acid.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 26, 2001 07:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those triaxane tablets you have won't work, you need hexamine.
Yeah, battery acid is H2SO4, around 30-40% and it should work as the catalyst for HMTD.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 23, 2001 07:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What are some really good uses for HMTD? I dont have much info on it and was wondering what kind of explosive devices you can make with it. Im thinking along the lines of pipe bombs, M-2000's stuff that makes ALOT of noise. And do I light it with just a fuse? How much of this stuff can I handle at one time cus I heard it can detonate under its own weight.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 23, 2001 08:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Broadly similar to AP (another peroxide). I don't think it's suitable for large pipe bombs due to its sensitivity.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 23, 2001 08:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW this should be in the Explosive Peroxides section.
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 23, 2001 11:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And thats just where its headed
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 24, 2001 01:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HMTD is a bit more powerful than AP,but it's main advantage is that it can be stored much longer without breaking down.If you're making large batches,just seperate it into smaller portions,store them apart and you shouldn't have any troubles.You could use det.'s for larger quantities,but it often detonates with the lightest confinement when lit with a fuse.If you wash it thoroughly,it stores better/longer.Plus it seems to be more unstable if there's any residue leftfrom the solution.
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 24, 2001 02:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So HMTD is not a confined explosive it explodes just basicaly if you wraped it in some paper and used a fuse it would explode? no need for paper tubes and stuff like that?
And one more question if you crushed the crystals or handeled them roughly would they explode?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 24, 2001 03:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wrap some in a tissue and light the edge it'll pop!.But the more confinement you use,the noisier,more powerful it would be(when making M-80's,etc.).I've never attempted to crush any,so I can't honestly answer your last question,although all the literature I've read says it is extremely friction-sensitive.
------------------
"That which does not kill us,makes us stronger"
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 24, 2001 07:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teck: Please do a god damn search before you ask questions like that.
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 24, 2001 02:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
teck, if you handle HMTD roughly it will explode, it is slightly less sensitive then ap, but if you were sittin there crushing it into powder with a hammer for firecrackers IT WILL EXPLODE, and when you handle any energetic material, just treat like the most sensitive explosive in the world... hope that helps.. and you say youve dealy with flash and bp, one thing for you to know is that if 100 grams of flsh goes off in your face, youll be burnt and probable missin some fingers, if HMTD goes off in your face, you wont even know what happened, you be blown to pices
[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited January 24, 2001).]
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 03:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for info every one. I asked those questions cus I just read about it two days ago and got interested in it. Today I made a small research on AP and HTMD and man is it that powerfull? damn I thought flash powder was a thrill lighting off, but man this stuff is something. Endotherm how much is 100grams of this stuff anyway give me an equevelence on how much that is. I know how much 100 grams of flash powder is but not HTMD. I want to try and make HTMD and see what its all about. I read several recipes and the one on MEGAS site says you can use any acid for AP so I was wondering If I can used citric acid? And one more thing any other precautions I should take while making it other than handle the crystals with care? any more info will be greatly apriciated.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 25, 2001 08:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Citric acid won't work for AP, it's not the best for HMTD either.
100gm is, well 100 grams! It's roughly equal to the power of an average hand grenade (hand grenades typically contain 50-75gm of a more powerful HE)
Handle the cyrstals with extreme care, being very cautious is better than being dead/having no knackers.
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 02:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well teck, 100 grams if hmtd, from my friends experience, that would be equivelant to about 3 times the power of confined flash powder per gram. So id say if you are use to flash powder, you would be very suprised at the power of hmtd, it probably wont be much louder than flash (because u were talkin about m-80's), but the destructive power is far greater. So be very careful with it.
[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited January 25, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 25, 2001 02:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The flash paper would only deflagerate so it's not really comparable to the power of somehting that actually detonates. 100gm would be about a coke can full of fine powder AP. I advise you don't make this about unless you seriously know hwat you are doing/ want to die/have no knackers. This amount of AP would tear you apart!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 25, 2001 03:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, tear you apart and shatter windows in the immediate vicinity. this is ALOT of AP man, this is VERY powerful. a gram, in the right casing could do some serious damage to you. 100 grams is just asinine.
------------------
...Æ
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 08:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLASH PAPER, I MEANT FLASH POWDER, MY BAD
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 25, 2001 08:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
when i first made ap with 27.5% h2o2 I acidently made 450 grams!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 25, 2001 09:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i know a kid who makes about a cup, cup and half each time he makes AP (and he makes this using 3% H2O2... he uses alot) he has plans for the AP every time he makes it though, so it sits for a week only, two weeks at the most.
------------------
...Æ
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 26, 2001 03:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I started making HMTD today and I thought I had hexamine tablets but what I have is Triaxane Tablets military type for starting fires heating food etc.., so I need to know if it will work the same as Methenamine, or hexamine and also, is it alright to use car battery acid in the mixture cus I think its a sulfiric acid.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 26, 2001 07:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those triaxane tablets you have won't work, you need hexamine.
Yeah, battery acid is H2SO4, around 30-40% and it should work as the catalyst for HMTD.