View Full Version : Guncotton the Crappy way
X6_Twilight
February 20th, 2005, 10:17 PM
My god, I am bad at Guncotton. I thought the cotton would stay solid and not dissolve: so out of, maybe, 3 cotton balls I got something like .5 grams of guncotton. My idea to solve this was to put a total of 10 MLs of Nitrating solution in a beaker, and put cotton in until it stopped dissolving, make a wet cotton slurry, and dry it. Any suggestions?
Anthony
February 21st, 2005, 02:14 PM
The cotton disolving is a problem, and it shouldn't happen. Firstly, be sure you actually have cotton, and not some synthetic substitute. Failing that, I recall that the cotton will disolve if the concentration of the acid isn't correct - possibly the H2SO4 being too dilute. Hopefully someone can clarify/refute this.
Cordtex
February 21st, 2005, 02:51 PM
X6_Twilight:
It has happened with me once, when the mixed acid was still a bit warm, never measured its temperature. BTW, what do you mean by nitrating solution? any details?
SidBoggle
February 23rd, 2005, 08:30 PM
In my experience the cotton will dissolve if the sulphuric is too concentrated. Well, maybe not dissolve but it certainly turns into a gooey mess that you really can't do anything with.
Boomer
February 24th, 2005, 11:02 AM
"possibly the H2SO4 being too dilute"
"if the sulphuric is too concentrated"
Two times wrong, but on the right track: The SA cant be strong enough, but if there is too much of it (i.e. too little nitric or nitrate) it attacks the cotton!
BTW using 60ml of >96% SA and 40g of AN for 3-5g cotton gives a higher nitrated product that sulphuric with dilute nitric - no miracle since the mix is near anhydrous.
Nope
March 22nd, 2005, 12:48 PM
I've tried making nitrocellulose a couple of times but the result wasn't the appropriate one...
I used 70% HNO3, 98% H2SO4 and of course, pure cotton; using the method presented at http://www.powerlabs.org. One time, I left it to nitrate up to 10 minutes... the result was: the cotton was kinda dissloved... I've never managed making NC, but I think it's more cheaper to buy rather than making it :P
Nope
March 22nd, 2005, 12:48 PM
I've tried making nitrocellulose a couple of times but the result wasn't the appropriate one...
I used 70% HNO3, 98% H2SO4 and of course, pure cotton; using the method presented at http://www.powerlabs.org. One time, I left it to nitrate up to 10 minutes... the result was: the cotton was kinda dissloved... I've never managed making NC, but I think it's more cheaper to buy rather than making it :P
Nope
March 22nd, 2005, 12:48 PM
I've tried making nitrocellulose a couple of times but the result wasn't the appropriate one...
I used 70% HNO3, 98% H2SO4 and of course, pure cotton; using the method presented at http://www.powerlabs.org. One time, I left it to nitrate up to 10 minutes... the result was: the cotton was kinda dissloved... I've never managed making NC, but I think it's more cheaper to buy rather than making it :P
Marvin
March 22nd, 2005, 06:29 PM
I'd also add the tendency is to pack as much cotton in the nitrating mixture as possible and for me this always resulted in a gooey mess. The times it worked well I used a tiny amount of cotton wool without any attempt to compress it in solution. In terms of grams of product per 100ml of nitrating mixture its a really lousy explosive.
Marvin
March 22nd, 2005, 06:29 PM
I'd also add the tendency is to pack as much cotton in the nitrating mixture as possible and for me this always resulted in a gooey mess. The times it worked well I used a tiny amount of cotton wool without any attempt to compress it in solution. In terms of grams of product per 100ml of nitrating mixture its a really lousy explosive.
Marvin
March 22nd, 2005, 06:29 PM
I'd also add the tendency is to pack as much cotton in the nitrating mixture as possible and for me this always resulted in a gooey mess. The times it worked well I used a tiny amount of cotton wool without any attempt to compress it in solution. In terms of grams of product per 100ml of nitrating mixture its a really lousy explosive.
cyclonite4
March 22nd, 2005, 10:53 PM
If you haven't figured out by now, Cordtex, nitrating solution is a combination of sulfuric and nitric acid. IIRC 3 parts concentrated sulfuric per part of concentrated nitric acid.
cyclonite4
March 22nd, 2005, 10:53 PM
If you haven't figured out by now, Cordtex, nitrating solution is a combination of sulfuric and nitric acid. IIRC 3 parts concentrated sulfuric per part of concentrated nitric acid.
cyclonite4
March 22nd, 2005, 10:53 PM
If you haven't figured out by now, Cordtex, nitrating solution is a combination of sulfuric and nitric acid. IIRC 3 parts concentrated sulfuric per part of concentrated nitric acid.
SidBoggle
March 23rd, 2005, 08:27 PM
If the Sulphuric is too concenrated, or if there isn't enough nitric, then the cotton wil dissolve. I use the 95%+ Sulphuric from the usual source and 70% Nitric (lab grade - bought) in a 2:1 ratio Sulphuric : Nitric by volume. I leave the cotton, I'm using plain cotton wool balls from the chemist, unrolled in the mix for at least 24 hours. I don't do large batches, usually less than 20 grams, so never had an issue with runaway. Just leave the acids to cool a little after you first mix them. Stuff as much cotton in as the mix will take, but do it slow. And tease the cotton apart as much as you can first. Then after a day or two take it out and wash with as much cold water as you can. Periodically test with a little Sodium Carbonate. If it fizzes then back in the water until it doesn't. I usually do the final wash in Carbonate solution and leave to dry just to be safe. It should look pretty much the same as when it went in, and will take a good while to dry. When a flame is applied it should go 'whoomph' with little or no smoke.
Sorry for the lack of paragraphs...
Sid.
SidBoggle
March 23rd, 2005, 08:27 PM
If the Sulphuric is too concenrated, or if there isn't enough nitric, then the cotton wil dissolve. I use the 95%+ Sulphuric from the usual source and 70% Nitric (lab grade - bought) in a 2:1 ratio Sulphuric : Nitric by volume. I leave the cotton, I'm using plain cotton wool balls from the chemist, unrolled in the mix for at least 24 hours. I don't do large batches, usually less than 20 grams, so never had an issue with runaway. Just leave the acids to cool a little after you first mix them. Stuff as much cotton in as the mix will take, but do it slow. And tease the cotton apart as much as you can first. Then after a day or two take it out and wash with as much cold water as you can. Periodically test with a little Sodium Carbonate. If it fizzes then back in the water until it doesn't. I usually do the final wash in Carbonate solution and leave to dry just to be safe. It should look pretty much the same as when it went in, and will take a good while to dry. When a flame is applied it should go 'whoomph' with little or no smoke.
Sorry for the lack of paragraphs...
Sid.
SidBoggle
March 23rd, 2005, 08:27 PM
If the Sulphuric is too concenrated, or if there isn't enough nitric, then the cotton wil dissolve. I use the 95%+ Sulphuric from the usual source and 70% Nitric (lab grade - bought) in a 2:1 ratio Sulphuric : Nitric by volume. I leave the cotton, I'm using plain cotton wool balls from the chemist, unrolled in the mix for at least 24 hours. I don't do large batches, usually less than 20 grams, so never had an issue with runaway. Just leave the acids to cool a little after you first mix them. Stuff as much cotton in as the mix will take, but do it slow. And tease the cotton apart as much as you can first. Then after a day or two take it out and wash with as much cold water as you can. Periodically test with a little Sodium Carbonate. If it fizzes then back in the water until it doesn't. I usually do the final wash in Carbonate solution and leave to dry just to be safe. It should look pretty much the same as when it went in, and will take a good while to dry. When a flame is applied it should go 'whoomph' with little or no smoke.
Sorry for the lack of paragraphs...
Sid.
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