I found one thread about body disposal by burning it with its own fat, I know that this can be also accomplished by thermite/thermate, but I want to know this: It here any method, preferably chemical(some "body solvent") to dispose of body completely? Completely I mean incuding bones, teeth, at the best even clothes and accesories(buttons etc).
Thanks.

Thermite, the universal cure-all for all your ills!

Destroys bridges, safes, bodies, corns and piles! Removes warts and buildings with just one application!

Just one dose of this universal elixer cures all your problems!


Stop....please, just stop....

The fact that this subject has been discussed manymanyMANY times before doesn't preclude you from asking it again?

a) I wrote that this CAN be accomplished with thermite, and it certainly can. I didn't wrote that this is good or best method.
b) I didn't wrote that thermite can destroy bridges etc. etc., it can, but it is not the best method(just like above)
c) I searched and I find only one thread - burning body with use of its own fat.

EDIT: Some bridges, of course. From the other hand, using thermite on warts can be fastest method... But only for somebody who doesn't ove his limbs. :rolleyes:

The issue with thermite is getting kind of annoying.
Maybe add something about it to the forum rules? ;)

And for your question, it would be pathetic to use thermite to get rid of a body, you would need a huge amount of it.

I know that you must have very impractical amount of thermite for this purpose, and for this reason I'm looking for some other mean of body destroying.
I did NOT ask: "Can I destroy body with thermite?"
I asked: "I need to know some OTHER thing to get rid of some body than thermite. What can be useful for this?"

I wrote exactly this: "...but I want to know this: It here any method, preferably chemical(some "body solvent") to dispose of body completely?"

Thanks for tolerance!

I'm adding everyone who talks about thermite to my list of people I intend to punch in the face. But as to your question: Nothing that won't make a bloody mess.

Maybe if you had a vat of Piranha Fluid or something on the order of that, you could get rid of most of it. Best bet would be cutting it to small parts and disposing of them on a smaller scale, as to do the body all at once would require industrial sized equipment. Whatever you did, it would have to be done in some really remote place as it would make a mess/smell like shit. So if you're in nowhere anyway, why not just bury it with a bag of fertilizer or stump remover to accelerate decomp, and fuck up his teeth so they can't identify him that way.

I heard Saddam had a plastics shredder that they used to lower people into... :(

Ugh....thermite? Maybe for some fun backyard metal casting, but...

On the other hand...to get back OT (ie. Body Disposal, in case you forgot) :rolleyes:

Take a page from Brick Top's wisdom:

"Then when you got your six pieces, you gotta get rid of them, because there's no good in leaving it in a deep freeze for your mum to discover now is it? Then I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You gotta starve the pigs for a few days then the sight of a chopped up body would look like curry to a pissant. You gotta shave the head of your victim and pull the teeth out for the sake of the piggy's digestion. You could do this afterwards of course but you don't wanna go sifting through pig shit now do ya? They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to do the job in one sitting so be weary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs two-hundred pounds in about...eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of un-cooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression: 'as greedy as a pig.'" :D

Animals in a forest can and have been known to spread body parts over 6+sq mi area's. That is something that could be used to your advantage.

Also boars will eat through almost anything.
So you have animals as a first choice, next is mechanical processes.
But what you realy need to first identify is who much risk are you willing to take.
Every issue that has and will be presented has a inherient risk factor that needs to be dealt with. The more elaborate you make the process the more risk factor you have intorduced.
Step by step, evey move you make crates more area to get caught. This is another KISS situation. I have sat down before and thought this through and came up with several scenes, which is who I feel it is best dealt with, IE what situation are you curently in... enviroment, avalibility of tools and resources, etc...

I will leave this as another project and try and get some time and type out a more full report on it at a later time.

Hahaha "Snatch" was a great movie.

What about burrying the body in the grave of someone who has just been burried? Dig till you hit coffin and then stick body in and burry coffin again...

Since it's newly dug it won't arouse suspicion.... Assuming no one needs to dig up the grave again... the body won't be found.

If all else fails just toss the body in a forest frequented by wild dogs. They will eat pretty much everything, won't have any bones left over either. (I saw the leftovers of a deer they got to once, all that was left was fur, and all over the place.)

*Warning: None of these methods have been tested by me since I have never needed to kill someone or hide the body, dream about it at your own risk, and remember I didn't teach you how to dream, I just showed you how to fall asleep. (For those who didn't get that, I'm not helping you out by telling you this, I'm just commenting on a hypothetical situation.)

I'm not going to bother asking why you would like to know how to dispose of bodies... because I am not sure I want to know, nor do I care what others do on their free time, because it's none of my business.

I heard maybe year ago that some sausage-maker dissolved his wife in a solution of something... But I don't know what chemical was used.

I heard it several times, and KNOW it has been done (man got convicted though because they found the gold teeth):

Sulphuric acid dissolves flesh, bones and hair. BUT

It leaves a slurry mess that does not go through the sink of your bath tub.
It takes some time and stinks.
You need HUGE amounts, over 150 litres IIRC.

I also heard a story about a young worker who fell into a chemical reaction vessel with several tons of SA plus a chromate. He had no gold teeth, but got identified by his stainless watch. I strongly doubt this story, it may be an urban legend, or he just tossed the watch in to "disappear" from his wife ... :p

hmmm, I'd have to say H2SO4 or the coffin method are both pretty good methods for disposing of bodies. Another idea that springs to mind would be dumping the body off in a university anatomy class. My mate is doing anatomy at uni and aparently they get to cut up cadavers. so leave the body in their supply room, let them cut the body up and dispose of it.

With the risk of someone realising that they have an extra body?!

You could swap it, but then there's still a chance that someone had a look at the real body when it was delivered, and then happens to have a look later.

"I'd have to say H2SO4 or the coffin method are both pretty good methods for disposing of bodies."

But neither are new ideas, and people have been caught despite using them.

Get a giant plastic tub, half fill with peat moss, toss in the dismembered body, add a few thousand meal worms, then cover with more peat.

Let sit for a couple weeks so the worms can get their grub on. :D

Sift out the bones, calcine in fire, crushing all into powder with ball mill, and dispose of ashes in flowing river.

Peat moss with worms goes into fire too, and river afterwards.

Most important part is total destruction of skull and teeth, so no freak with a clay fetish can reconstruct a model of what the person looked like when they were alive, as this can help them identify an otherwise unknown corpse.

Or just drop the corpse down the hole of a septic well that's about to be filled in. Hundreds of feet underground, plus constant supply of hungry bacteria to biodegrade the corpse, bones and all, into slurry.

You can buy meal worms from scientific supply companies that sell biological specimins. I remember Boreal Laboratories used to sell mealworms in bulk. They are sold as food IIRC.

-Museum beetles and tadpoles are also used to take flesh off of bone. (the beetles pick it clean, tadpoles where ever they fit they clean.) (both easily aquired).

-Then Disposing of the bones, NBK had probably the best idea. Pull the teeth out of the scull, then crush up the bone (after cooking as NBK pointed out). . hell you could probably even use a wood chipper for the bone, just aim it into a garbage can for easy removal, then if you wish to powder it, it is also easier than starting from full pieces of bone.

-Least effort possible for teeth would be just to put them on the train tracks (if you have em near you, instant powder)

-Doesn't hydrogen peroxide or bleach destroy traces of blood/DNA? So they can be used to clean up any mess.

- I guess if you are really lazy you can just fill a balloon up with hydrogen gas (h2 because it's easy to "make"), tie one of the organic type threads (rot away) to it and tie the teeth to it (You can also just put them in the balloon). Wind will carry it far enough away, usefull if wind blowing towards a woody area. (got the idea after launching a rocket with a 1000 foot motor one windy day.... I never saw that rocket again. t'was her maiden voyage too). But not constant results, it may just end up landing in someones yard.

The problem with most murders is that people spend more time on thinking about the actual murder than the clean up. Therefore they get caught.

----------------------------------------------------
Anyways instead of "disposing of the body" why wouldn't you just kill them in a typical matter and make it seem like a gang/drug/settling debt, or Mugging gone wrong related homocide? If the cops at a scene assume a senario they will be blinded to the truth.... theoretically.

There was a case when the IRA were more active of an undercover SAS soldier being kidnapped and tortured. He never cracked and released any info so the IRA shot him with his own pistol. His body was never found. It was rumored that it was turned into animal feed.

So why not grind up the body then stick the remains into animal feed?

I found the book about dissolving the pesky wife again, so: the chemical used was K2H. I'm not sure if H2SO4 can dissolve bones to slurry - in fact, I'm not sure even about the K2H!
Few years ago, some weak murderer confess that he murdered maybe six or seven people(I cannot remember correctly) and grind them to feeding for pigs(special hint for NBK: It can be funny grind the pig to feeding for pigs;)). So it is probably good method, but you need to be employed near the animals, otherwise it can be a bit risky.
The worms idea is good, mainly for some person(recent person, of course) which is not going to be missed early after the getting rid of it. But it's pretty thorough disposal!
Thanks for hints and tips!

I remember an article about a forensic experiment in the USA (in the 90's).
The goal was been to find an easily available chemical that dissolves a human body completely... as quick as possible. The best and fastest one was a professional liquid drain cleaner based on lye... it dissolved a body within 5 days.

Hmm, never thought of lye, but it does burn like hell on skin... You could leave the body in the tub full of lye and then just pull the plug when it was gone. Lye can be sent down the sink. How (dare I ask) did they test this?

I keep hearing stupid facts like "the human body is 85% water" or something to that effect. Perhaps if you had a way of dehydrating the corpse, it would be far easier to destroy.

The human body is comprised of alot of water. We have 6-8 litres of blood and about 95% of blood is water.
Dehydrating the body might work, but do remember that dehydration is also used in preservation of various materials, so it could just go the other way.

Hang-man: Some people when they die choose to have their body donated to science. The science category includes the body being cut up and examined and decomposed. Scientists also use to carcass of an animal with similar characteristics like a pig and they'll then compare it.

Ropik: What substance are you referring to with "K2H"?
And something else: We already got complaints from two different people about your posting style ("post whoring"), and I have to agree with them. I don't want to ban you because I see that you're trying to contribute, but if another mod thinks that you should be banned I'll agree with this decision. In order to stay, I recommend to only post when you've got something to say. Compare your posts to that of long-time members and you will see the difference. Consider this a strong hint...

Jelly: Do you have any more detailed info, especially on how well it decomposes bones and teeth?

The most important difference between chemical burns caused by lye and acid is this:

Lye causes a "colliquative/liquefactive necrosis" (necrosis in which the necrotic material becomes softened and liquefied).

Acid causes a "coagulation necrosis" (necrosis in which tissue becomes a dry, opaque mass, resulting from the denaturation of proteins).

Rhadon: No...sorry. I've read about the experiment in the news magazine "DER SPIEGEL" some years ago. I'll try to find a copy of the article somewhere on the internet.

Rhadon: I am referring to potassium hydride(please excuse me if this is wrong typed name of this chemical. I do not fully understand the english terminology yet. Basically it is binary chemical compound with one molecule composed from one atom of hydrogen and two atoms of potassium. Also please excuse me if the name was typed good and this is stupid talking).
I will take your hint to my heart. Thank you for the warning.

Edit: A solution of potassium hydride was used, of course, not the solid.

Hydride? :confused:

I doubt it, more like hydroxide.

There are drain cleaners that are composed of both hydroxide and hypochlorite. I'd think this more effective than straight lye, as the hypochlorite will oxidize tissue as well.

This is pretty morbid - but i was thinking "Fargo" on this situation - poor Steve - heh

Basically it is binary chemical compound with one molecule composed from one atom of hydrogen and two atoms of potassium.
Ropik is really talking about K2H, which is NOT potassium hydride; it simply does not exist.

NBK: The dual-cleaner can be effective, maybe I will try it with some meat and few bones as a sample.

Sarevok: I'm pretty sure that this exist, few years ago(junior high school) my chemistry teacher talked about this(not in the dissolving idea, however), so I think it's real. Yes, my teacher could be wrong, but he was really good, so now I'm a bit confused...

EDIT: Eternal sorry, it is not K2H, but only KH. I apologize to everyone who read this.

It does exist, but not as K2H, Potassium Hydride is KH. You can make it by passing hydrogen over heated potassium (forming a grey/white solid). It is an excelent reducing agent and will produce hydrogen on contact with water.

I think it is sold commericaly in oil but I doubt it's OTC.

EDIT: "Threads: 3,496, Posts: 55,723, Members: 9,015
Welcome to our newest member, Johnny_Black" not changed in a few weeks. Just thought I'd point that out.

Thanks for the notice Hang-Man, but that's nothing to worry about :).

EDIT: Eternal sorry, it is not K2H, but only KH. I apologize to everyone who read this.

Sorry I am not a specialist in Chemistry, but I strongly doubt that the chemical /mixture they use(d) is KH. Since AFAIK KH is hard to store since it shall react with the moisture in the air to give out H2 gas, and I cannot figure out a method to bring such an active substance with the body, the substance in question is most probably KOH, namely potassium hydroxide.

In addition, since this compound you refer is highly reactive and reductive, I readily assume it is quite expensive.

Although the substance in question is a strong base, I am unsure if it may dissolve teeth too. Regards.

To make things clear: I said that K2H does not exist, not that potassium hydride does not exist. Anyways, potassium hydride is very expensive and its not going to dissolve a body. To use potassium hydroxide is also foolish, because sodium hydroxide is cheaper, and more commonly available.

Don't trust junior high school teachers. If they were good teachers, they would be teaching to people with a master degree, at least.

I don't know what is so wonderful about destroying a body. It usually leaves a lot of evidence (instead of having a body, you have hundreds of H2SO4 and H2O2 bootles, and a glass- or whatever-container to dissolve the body. If you are going to dissolve more than one body you will have, temporarily, a lot of bodies in jars inside your house, you have also messages on an internet message board about body disposal. While killing the person and transporting the body to where it will be dissolveded, you are going to leave more evidence to the police, etc).

Sarevok:
I'm theoretical, I did not even dream about some body disposal, I am not going to kill somebody in other situation than absolutely necessary self-defence.

About the KH: I don't know if this is true. I only read this, and books aren't always true, we all know this. But thanks that somebody clear this for me.

Anyway: Thanks to everyone who replies on my question. Now I am able to figure out the methods, and for me, there is never enough knowledge about most parts of chemistry. Once again, thanks!

Good point, Sarevok. It would be hard to get by that ammount of acids / lye and be able to carry out the decomposition without raising suspicion.

If I were to kill someone and dispose of the body, I'd probably go for the "dump in the sea"-method. No one's gonna look four kilometres out sea if someone is lying in a bag wrapped in nylon and only accompanied by a number of rocks in his misery.

If no boat/sea is avaliable, it gets trickier. One idea would be to put the body in empty oil barrel, fill this up with charcoal, add some fan-device blowing air into the "oven" to keep the temperature up.
Edit: What was I thinking? Kids can be annoying but burning them up in oil barrels...! An oil barrel is to small for most of todays fatties. But one could either chop mr Unlucky up in smaller pieces (urk) or simply build a bigger oven.

I'd probably go for the "dump in the sea"-method. No one's gonna look four kilometres out sea if someone is lying in a bag wrapped in nylon and only accompanied by a number of rocks in his misery.

I'm a diver. I've trained for body recovery, as well as with dogs for search and rescue, and for cadaver searches. I've watched this thread with some amusement, as usual, Hollywood's version doesn't have a lot to do with the real world...

If you go tossing bodies in the ocean, remember that the body cavity will fill up with gas, and you will be amazed at just how many rocks, chains, railroad iron or whatever that can lift. Remember to put a stake through the body cavity... Or use enough concrete to encase the body completely. (Jimmy Hoffa, anyone?)

If you're working with a body of water smaller than an ocean, those same gasses as they escape will allow a trained search dog to find a cadaver under 100' of water, even moving water.

The Fargo scenario has been tried in the real world. Enough bones, teeth and DNA remained for that bright boy to be prosecuted.

Burning? Do you know how much time and fuel that takes?! And the smell...

Strong bases and acids will take huge ammounts to dissolve a human body. The classic method of dumping a body in a lime pit still leaves bones and teeth enough to ID from years later. I believe the original use of these had more to do with re-using the space inside a prison's grounds for more burials in the near future, you only had to dig up bones when burying the next executed.

In La Crosse WI, there is a certain brewery where a funky blob turned up in the beer vats from time to time. The blobs used to be someone who offended the Milwaukee or Chicago outfits. The beer was also rumored to have been sold afterwards- It was allready through the plant by the time the cleaning crews found the blobs... The acids in the mix were said to decalcify teeth and bones to where an X-ray identification was not possible.

There was some guy in Britain who killed a couple of people and disposed of their bodies by dissolving them in vat's of Sulphuric acid, the way the police knew that it was bodies he had dissolved was that they found a gallstone in one of them.

Caustic soda will work for bodies, I've heard tell that the mafia occasionally were fond of using this method.

OK then, down to business: Who feels like buying some meat and bones and performing a few tests? I'm thinking of it myself, but alas my H2SO4 is running far too low. However some caustic may come to hand soon. Now I just need some meat & bones.

Even the "concrete drum in the ocean" scheme can backfire, as trawlers can pull it up if it's not too deep for shrimp or whatever to live. You'll have to take it WAYYYYYY far from the coast to clear the continential shelf so it in miles deep water before dropping it off.

You'd also want to puncture the body with perforated tubing so the gases of decomposition can vent out of the drum so they don't fracture the concrete :eek: and release the body. Lead weights of at least 4x the weight of the body is required to counter decay-gas bouyancy.

Don't forget that body parts have been retrieved from shark and whale stomachs. How did they identify Joseph Mengela? By a body part from a shark stomach. :( You'll have to keep the sea-life from nibbling on your victim.

There's dams that drain out their lakes every decade or so for silt removal. Usually there's a town or such that's underwater normally. Bury the body under the concrete floor of one of these buildings and it's gone forever. :)

For my t'pence worth...

Surely if you dump something like a body in a concrete case, it will last for hundreds of years?

Someone mentioned the body in sulphuric acid, and the 55 gallon drum thing, too. Seems the South American drug czars used a similar thing. This drug czar wanted plastic surgery to disappear, but the surgeon botched it, and the guy died. So as revenge, they chained him up and put him in a 55 gallon drum, then sealed it and filled it with H2SO4, and put it in a load of other drums, someplace. When they found the body, it was a right mess. Very green and melted looking. The stainless steel cuffs were bright and shiny, though... Did a crap job of getting rid of the body, they knew who he was, and what happened.

It may last hundreds of years, but it only has to remain unfound for your lifetime. :p

Jeffery Dahmer bashed one of his first victims bodies with a friggen sledge hammer on a stump (or something similar) in the back yard at his dear grandmom's abode. They NEVER would have found the slivers of bone if he hadn't started keeping parts for a later din in his new "fresh"ly tainted appartment and checked his previous wereabouts.

Mr. Gacy liked the Lye idea... wasn't it more than 20 he partially disolved before they caught on to him for stupid mistakes?

Truth be known, you might get away with a few, but you'll get caught if you take a liking to such a thing.

If it's worth the time (in prison) for being caught, then it's SURELY worth the (much less) time in planning... Why not just make it look really dirty and viscious and make certain a dear foe is implicated beyond a "reasonable doubt". Seems to me to be a whole lot easier than disposal.

Though if it is an "accident" and he/she's not a person you are regularly aquainted with, I'd still allow the piggies to find him/her after filling his her pockets with a few bucks and nice things (small price to pay) and letting the body sit nicely in an alley near the skids in a city alley. (no way after the dregs roll a dead body and leave their fresh smudges all over the victim will they find anything you were SURE not to leave). Don't forget to leave a half empty bottle of vodka, tequila, or something in the vics "passed-out" hand to surely attract all the street vermin.

Post Script: Brick Top rocks, Quinn! :D The rest can get "PROPER fucked!" --(excerpt from SNATCH)

im going to go back to the incineration method for thins one.

aparently crematoriums can not destroy a body completely because the body is not in the furnace long enough (2-3 hours). But with a longer time (5+ hours) it has been proven to be effective on a pig. there was nothing left. nothing but ashes.

If you were to wrap the tightly in ace bandages (soaked and dried in fuel oil or something similar), i believe it would work quite effectively.

This theory is called "wick theory", mainly because the persons clothes (or ace bandages) act similarly to a wick on a candle, and the fat/protein/tissues act like the wax. This allows for maximum burn time and heat, thus causeing complete (or near complete) destruction of the body

++++++++++++++

Perhaps you are referring to the auto-cremation technique that I posted about years ago?

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2761

NBK

I tend to agree with festergrump, why try to cover it up when you can blame it on someone else? Make it look like a robery or something. By the time they figure out it was a set up you will be long gone, or at least the evidence will be.