View Full Version : Gamma Aminobutyric Acid
zeocrash
April 21st, 2004, 06:26 PM
Ok in chemistry today we were doing a brief introduction to neuropharmacology.
We got on to the topic of how nerves work. While discussing this we got on to a chemical called Gamma Aminobutyric Acid or GABA for short. This chemical is naturally produced in the body when tired and depresses the CNS, the chemical it's self is very simple
H2N-CH2-Ch2-CH2-COOH
I was wondering if this chemical could be used as an assasination weapon, a large dose of GABA would inhibit the CNS so much that the heart and lungs would just shut down, similar to the effect of using Vallium and alcohol. The advantage the main advantage of using GABA is that it is naturally produced in the body, it is also is metabolised away IIRC.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this or if i'm talking out of my back passage again
JoeJablomy
April 21st, 2004, 11:21 PM
Please excuse the basic chem question, but I doubt I'l be able to get a straight answer anywhere without asking. I've asked a lot of basic chem questions and haven't even gotten good answers then.
--What exactly is the 'gamma' form of a molecule? What other Greek letters are used? (delta, at least, as delta-9-THC, or is this under a different system?)
Dave Angel
April 22nd, 2004, 01:31 AM
Within the brain GABA and GHB (that ever-so popular date rape drug) are readily interconvertible apparantly. The difference is that GHB easily crosses the blood brain barrier where as GABA doesn't.
The most reliable way to carry out a GABA poisoning would be to give an overdose of GHB. Reports state that doses in excess of 2.5g can lead to "depressed breathing, bradycardia (slow heart rate), coma, and even death."
Also "Alcohol and other drugs with central nervous system depressant effects are known to compound the effect of GHB."
More details on GABA including links to GHB:
http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=132
As for the gamma question, I think gamma in this case means that the hydroxyl/amino group is on the third carbon atom away from the following functional group. ie:
gamma amino (amino group 3 places away from) butyric acid
Perhaps the delta means 4 places away in some cases, but I'm not sure about what it means in the case of delta-9-THC. The Bees will probably know more about this sort of thing. ;)
zeocrash
April 22nd, 2004, 05:30 AM
Hmm yeah the gamma definatly refers to the position of the amino croup.
In the case of delta 9 thc i'm not quite sure what the delta relates to, i think it may be the position of the oxygen in the cyclohexane ring (The oxygen is on the 4th place on the ring, hence delta, but that's just a guess.)
Xave
April 25th, 2004, 02:57 PM
I've been wondering about that too. for d9 THC it's not about the position of the oxygen i dont think. it's something to do with the positioning of the double bond on the cyclohexene ring (top left of the 3 rings) in the molecule.
As for using this as a poison, whoever mentioned GHB was right. The sedatives (xanax, valium, lithium, etc etc) and GHB work by (effectively) mimmicking GABA. Without going into detail, GABA makes it 'harder' for a neuron to fire (create an impule travelling along it's axon). Obviously there comes a point where normal stimuli (like those telling you to breathe) have no effect, and bang- you're dead. No breathing, etc. Normally when dealing with this kind of poisoning, the victim feels drowsy, goes into a stupour and becomes increasingly sedated, until they loose consciousness, go into a coma, and eventually stop breathing.
jimmyboy
April 26th, 2004, 03:32 AM
GABA can be used as a precursor for GHB - actually i've seen a working synth but its still experimental - it still produces nitrosamines and other nasty byproducts - GHB is just like any sedative too much and your looking a respiratory depression and possible heart failure but it would definitely not be an efficient poison.
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