well yes im a noob im sure you have already gathered this before you clicked on the post,
basically I have been testing and experimenting with black powder and I am going to describe what I have descovered and what works for me for 2 reasons, the first being that mabey somone who is more experienced (being almost everyone) possibly help in perfecting my processes so that I can continue in my experiments. For you see I dont really want to move on untill I have this right, yes you may be thinking "what a gimp for only experimenting with somthing so easy as black powder" yes mabey that is true but i think it nessesary to start easy and work your way up.
and second for the super noob who doesnt fully understand black powder (which any safe new person would start in the pyro world) as there is little to no info on the actual making of black powder on this forums (i have searched).
I have also looked on the net but usually its an essay on the history and gives a quick glimpse at the ratios with no real detail on the procedure.

the way I make it
most people know that the ratio is 75 15 10 kno3 (potasium nitrate) charcole sulphur
basically i have it all seperate charcole is basically the lumpwood you get for bbq's which is what i use
the most important thing i have found is that the smaller the grinding the better quality the black powder.
i usually take the lumpwood smash it a couple of times with a rolling pin to break it up, and then wrap it in a newspaper or normall a4 paper and roll with a rolling pin (if you have a mill use that but for most that dont the rolling pin works quite well) then when this is completed and most of the lumpwood is dust i take a pair of tights and place over a funneland sive the lumpwood through.
this lets only the finest dust through , in earlyer attempts i had just crushed it untill it looked like dust, but the reality is it never was and ment for slow burning low quality black powder.but the tights do work wonders, i continue this proces again and again untill there is enough, i wrap that in some cling film and leave it on the side.
usually sulphur and postasium nitrate comes in a good enough powder but if not then i carry out the saem method again and this should leave you with a very fine dust with all the ingrediants.

i then mix the sulphur with the lumpwood, if its possible to see alot of sulphur then it means you havent ground it enough as you shouldnt be able to see anything, then add the potasium nitrate, most times i add water to the mixture before the kno3 is added but if in a hurry then you can add without to much worry of ignition obviouse safty is considered like no smoking but anyone dumb enough to do that deserve to get incinerated.

the pros: is there anything ive missed in the procedure?, or anyways you can think of to make it better?, if not then great it means that i can move onto other things if so then id be gratefull for any information
supernoob: although its not a powerfull explosive out in the open it can be quite deadly when confined, dont forget to do all the mixing seperate from each other and not mix the chemicals untill the very end, use wooded utensils to stir the mixture etc to prevent any sparks etc, just basically use your head as if u start developing a stupid sense for safty now you wont last long when making bigger explosives.

making it into a bomb not a flare

alot of my first attempts at making the black powder go BOOM were not very succesfull most times it ment a road flare, my old way was to
find a tube or equally good object cap both ends with whatever you can find so that the powder wont spill out, my first attampts used steel piping about 3-4cm diameter and 20cm long& plastic end caps from a plumbing place, most people use copper piping with end caps but i couldnt find it at the time, this pipe was filled and afuse leading into a small hole (pre drilled) about 1cm large this burned like a road flare so to the super noob dont use this method, i discovered that the plastic had melted and the fuse hole was to big.
i relised that in order for it to explode i needed a fuse hole small enough so that it couldnt burn out of it and the pressure inside could be able to increase causeing the explostion
my recent attempts have all worked and they all used the same kind of method as before, i have made 2 kinds, the first being aluminum piping the both ends crimped down in a vice and a tiny fuse hole cut with a hack saw so the hole itself is only 1mm large and that explodes quite nicly with a bang, the other being a tree truck that has been bored out and filled with a slightly larger fuse hole about 5mm drilled into it the top was sealed and wraped with rope to prevent the top from blowing off and making sure all the pressure stayed inside the trunk and causing it to explode.

pros: is there any kind of method u use to make sure you get a good detonation, what kind of materials have you used piping? tree? etc, what have worked for you in the past and whats the best kind of pakaging you have used to contain the black powder eg pipe bomb etc
supernoob: its imprtant in my limited experience to make sure the fuse hole is small enough to allow it to ignite the inside but small enough to make sure that the it cannot burn out of the hole it must increase in pressure on the inside in order for it to explode, as for a fuse, if you have a very limited knowldge then the best way is to use some of your black powder and run a trail going into or on top of the fuse hole, there are some dissadvantages to this as it can be quite a waste as the larger the explosive gets the further back you need to be.

well any help would be apriaciated, i have in all honesty tried looking around but there isnt really an awnser to my questions and i remember that before i had tryed this it was difficult to find an excact method for making it, mabey because its thought of as so simple that it doesnt need describing, however i think that we all have to start somwere and although i may get flamed for this post as most noobs generally do i think that there may be smoe people who would see this information as a resource for black powder.

thanks for your time

A couple of things:

First, the way you present yourself here will have a lot to do
with how you are treated. You should have read the FAQ
and "unwritten rules". If not, do so before posting again.

Compose your post in Word or Outlook, do a spell and
grammar check. Don't neglect capitalization and punctuation,
NEVER use L33+ 5p33k. After you have it well composed, paste
it into the forum.

Second, you're probably gonna get flamed plenty for that post, so
I'm not going to...

Third- You're a kid. You want to make a big bang. I can't
fault you too much for that, 30 years ago I was you.
However, you're using metal cases. NEVER use metal
cases for reports. Metal cases are for weapons. You're
not trying to kill yourself or anyone else, correct?
Then DON'T USE METAL!!!

If you do a bit of research in the pyrotechnics section of
the forum, you will find some answers. Here's a starting point:

If you find my post there where I recommend pyro
"noobes" do research on PML (Pyrotechnics Mailing List)
and follow it, you will find instructions for making
good black powder by several methods. This will be
your first "reSEARCH" project. If you complete it
and then post a nice, correctly spelled and grammatical
request IN THE PYROTECHNICS SECTION for how to make
a black powder "banger" (Don't start a new thread,
add the request to an APPROPRIATE existing thread)
I might just tell you how. (Hint: NO metal, some
paper, strong string and carpenters glue are all you need.
Look up this word: Maroon.)

Thanks Bert for all your advice, I did read the unwritten rules and as far as I knew I did not break any of their laws, I may be wrong in this.
Thanks for the tip of using word, I hadn’t even really thought about that and from now on all posts will be made using word. Very sorry

Your right in saying I’m a kid, well 17. I have always had a genuine interest in pyrotechnics and was thinking about a possible career into it for after I finish my A levels but even if I don’t id like to have the knowledge as a hobby. Moreover, thanks for the knowledge about not using metal I can see your point about the killing, only reason I did is that I thought you had to in order to make that bang, obviously wrong in that respect.
I’ve been researching in the pyrotechnics section and have found some interesting topics. However I didn’t understand your last point you put I tried searching maroon and it came up with 3 topics, of which I read and tried all the links posted up but didn’t find any site explaining about black powder, I think it might be the way I read your last point. I will do that research when I find out where I need to go and I will post back just as you said. If you could rephrase that point you made about the PML and I will get cracking on researching
I am grateful for your post; I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes just trying to climb that steep learning curve

Not such a bad post danny, you were trying to give as well as ask, so that's good.

Working in Word may not work very well, I think other people have had problems with it when pasting from word. Notepad is a safer bet, but I don't know if it has any form of spell check.

Regarding there being no information out on Black Powder:

WHAT???:eek:

There is a SHITLOAD out there dude. Try searching a bit more, or perhaps a bit smarter. Yes, a finer ground mix is better, and if you can use the CIA method (boiling water with Alcohol dropped in) that makes it better still. I found this forum by searching for BP, but I know there's a whole load more out there.

That's much better, thanks.

Look in the Pyrotechnics section of the forum, the Flame colors thread (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2274) .
You will find a post there recommending the PML and giving the
e-mail of the list administrator to apply for membership.

As far as the word "maroon"- The net doesn't have the proper
old fashioned device listed. I'm sorry, I should have checked.
Other synonyms are "petard" (French) and "knalkorper" (German)
(Any of you German members want to check my spelling on that?!)
Those words come up blank on google too... Guess I'll have
to write an article on it. When you've done your BP research, I will.
(If you can find a copy of an English book by Thomas Kentish
called The Pyrotechnist's Treasury - The Complete Art of Fireworks-Making,
you will find a description there)

One more thing- You describe lighting devices with a powder train- A
thin line of BP laid to the touch hole of your device. Look up the term
"black match". It's the original fuse, you should be able to make
it and save yourself some risk (and BP). Also, look up the history
of one of your countrymen, a Mr.William Bickford of Cornwall.
He went to a good deal of trouble to give miners an alternative to
using powder trains or goose quills filled with BP.

http://www.wecreate4u.net/dwilliams/top.html

Dan williams has an extremely neat and professional amatuer pryrotechnics website. He deals with blackpowder manufacture, but using the ball mill method which might be a little out of your reach right now.

Searching for "Dan Williams" on google will bring up several amatuer pyro websites, such as lindsay greene's and the PFP database. These sites have links to many other link-minded sites, which in turn link to many others. Once you've gotten into this link "web" you'll find all you want to know and iwll have many weeks of reading. They'll teach you all the basics and general stuff, any specific questions you can ask here.

I can vouch for it, as that's how I started learning properly about pyro.

As you start reading you'll realise where you've gone wrong with your experiments so far, it's much more rewarding to answer your own questions, and you'll understand the answers better.

BP is actually quite difficult to master when you're starting out, however it is comparitively safe and will teach you much, once you have got it, you'll be better poised to move onto higher stuff.

One specific word of advice - avoid the use of the word "bomb", "banger/firecracker/salute" or simply "device" are much better. Bombs are weapons and is a word that brings disrepute to genuine pyro hobbyists.

Mostly, all I have to say has already been well said. So, I will just add my 2 cents. I'm going to talk about some things in this post that you may have no idea about (ex. making charcoal or dextrin). I encourage you to look up every term you don't understand in the rec.pyrotechnics archive. To do this go over to www.google.com and search the rec.pyrotechnics newsgroup by using the advanced search option under the newsgroups tab. The rec.pyrotechnics archives is a very useful resource and has a great deal of information on making black powder as well as many other things.

Making black powder is simple. But it may take a while to get your method down at first. You may look back and wonder why you found it so hard to make BP! Much confusion may come to you if you are so unfortunate to have read the 'cookbooks' such as the anarchist cookbook. I recommend you do your best to forget everything you read in those 'documents' as most of it will just confuse you.

When I have dreamed of making black powder I have found that good, fine charcoal is key. Using charcoal such as homemade willow charcoal is an easy way to increase the burn rate of your BP. Willow is also much easier to crush than the hardwood charcoal which you may buy for your barbeque. BTW don't use briquettes as they have clay in them. As you have found crushing it with a rolling pin is not really sufficient to get a fine powder. You really need to either buy some airfloat charcoal (though that's probably not a very good option for you), mill some in a ball mill or if you are just experimenting grind some well with a mortar and pestle. The mortar and pestle method of course takes a while, but it's way better than a rolling pin! Once you have some good charcoal and fine sulfur then if you go ahead with the precipitation method (CIA method) you should have some reasonably good black powder. It helps to grind the charcoal and sulfur together first, this mixes it and makes sure the sulfur is not lumpy.

I'm going to go ahead and point out some things that may seem glaringly obvious to most of us, but to a newbie maybe not so much. From reading the way you make your mixture, I have noticed two things distinctly missing from your procedure.

First, just stirring in the potassium nitrate is not good enough. It has to be mixed very well with the fuels. A good way to do this is to ball mill the black powder or to use the precipitation method.

Second, after mixing everything together you must make the powder into small granules. One way to do this is to add water to it until it is damp, then push it through a screen. A window screen will work. You can granulate black powder without dextrin but you will end up with very fragile grains.

Judging from your post the burn speed of the powder you have made is exceedingly slow, and isn't really to be considered black powder. Even with slow black powder it should be easy to get a bang out of it with some reasonable confinement. With real black powder you will not have to worry about fuse hole sizes.

Edit: Please look up the real meaning of detonation!

Thank you to all that have posted, believe me I have learnt a lot in the past 2-3 hours of reading than i would have if you didn’t point me in the right direction.
After reading Dan Williams’s site I have seen how much more is needed to get the perfect black powder and by looking at the links of the other websites is making for some good reading. It seems the two main things i am missing is the ball mill and some kind of crusher (described in Dan Williams to make the bp into pucks)
After reading all the information and doing a couple of experiments I’ll get back to you on how I get on and any problems that I may encounter. I am having some problems locating a place that sells ball mills in the uk, are they under a different name?. I have tried rock tumbler but didn’t achieve much success, if anyone could let me know on that id be grateful.

Again all your advice has been very good

A few years ago a forum member gave me the link of elephant blackpowder which had a good foto show of their factory. This isn´t online anymore.
But the powdermill Aubonne has a slideshow online.

Swiss Blackpowder (http://www.elephantblackpowder.com/Sporting/D'AubonneFactory.swf)


And here comes an article about blackpowder. The best I´ve ever read in this matter.


Black Powder Manufacturing Techniques and how Processing Variations Effects
Behavior in Small Arms By William A. Knight Copyright 1996



A Brief History of Black Powder Production
The exact length of time in which black powder has been produced is unknown.
It's use as a propellant is documented in the 14th century in both China and
Europe. The use of what we know as black powder as a firearms propellant occurs
in both Europe, Turkey and China within a span of about 20 years.
Black powder production evolved over a long period of time that reached a peak
in both quantity and quality by the latter half of the 19th century. This
evolutionary process included improvements in ingredient purity and methods of
processing. Advances in powder-making technology lead to a greater number of
applications for the product. By the mid-16th century, black powder was begining
to be used as a blasting agent in mining operations.
As a firearm propellant, black powder reached it's peak in quanities produced
and product quality between 1850 and 1890. Black powder manufacturers were then
faced with the introduction of other explosives and propellants that caused a
decrease in demand for black powder and at the same time forced the industry to
begin reducing the cost of producing black powder.
Prior to the early years of the 20th century black powder manufacturers
purchased ingredients in what would best be described as a raw form. They then
refined these ingredients, or prepared them, to their own specifications. The
early years of the 20th century saw changes in sources of raw materials and the
methods by which they were produced. In some instances the powder-maker was
forced to change sources of raw materials even though it might result in a small
compromise in powder quality. Powder-makers also had to change raw material
sources as a means of reducing production costs.
Black powder manufacturing had always been a very labor intensive industry. The
rise of labor costs in the early years of the 20th century resulted in changes
in production methods to reduce the number of man-hours required to produce a
pound of powder. These changes also resulted in some compromising of product
quality.
Types Of Small-Arms Black Powder
During the 19th century there were 3 types of black powder in use in small-arms.
Each type was specifically produced to give optimum performance in a particular
caliber range.
Sporting powder.
Sporting powders were generally used in the smaller caliber arms. This included
round-ball guns up to aproximately .45 caliber. Sporting powders were low
density powders with very fast burn rates. Sporting type powders continued to be
used in the smaller pistol cartridges. Sporting powders were generally loaded at
"one grain per caliber", or less. A sporting powder would give diminishing
returns above one grain per caliber.
Rifle powder.
Rifle powders were used in round-ball guns between .45 and .54 caliber. A rifle
powder gives diminishing returns at about 1.4 to 1.5 grains per caliber. Rifle
powders were used in a number of rifle and pistol cartridges. A rifle powder
does not burn as fast as a sporting powder.
Musket powder.
Musket powders were used in round ball guns larger than .54 caliber,
muzzleloading long guns using elongated projectiles and black powder cartridges
.45 and larger. Musket powders gave diminishing returns at 1.5 to 1.6 grains per
caliber.
To explain point of diminishing returns, powder type and charge volume.

When you work up a load in a muzzleloading firearm, using black powder, you make
incremental increases in the volume of powder charged to the bore. A point is
reached where the incremental increase in powder produces less velocity increase
compared to previous increases. The point at which the decreased gain is noted
is the point of diminishing returns. This point of diminishing returns is
determined by the "expansive force" of the powder charge. The expansive force
being a relationship between the volume of gases produced by the powder charge
and the temperature at which the powder burns and the diameter of the bore.
Using powder charges in excess of the point of diminishing returns may cause a
marked increase in bore fouling, a noticeable increase in recoil and may reduce
the usefull life of the barrel by increasing the rate at which the breech area
metal errodes.
There were differences, between the three types, in ingredient properties,
processing methods and physical properties in the finished powder.
This particle size distribution graph shows the effect of wheel-milling times on
the particle size of the charcoal ingredient in black powder. Basically, longer
milling time yields smaller particle sizes and therefor faster burning powder.
While the percentage difference between the types appears to be not overly
significant, the increase in the total surface area of the charcoal is most
dramatic and has a marked effect on combustion rates and temperatures produced
by powder combustion.
Sporting powder: 65 - 75% in the 2 to 10 micron size range.
Rifle powder: 50 - 55% in the 2 to 10 micron size range.
Musket powder: 35 - 45% in the 2 to 10 micron size range.

Description of Process
The process of manufacturing black powder is a batch system in that it is
processed in small batches which are then blended together at later stages in
the process. The basic process is somewhat standardized with each manufacturer
having only minor variations in the basic process.
A. Charcoal and sulfur are combined and ground in a ball mill.

B. The required amount of potassium (or sodium) nitrate are "laid up" in the
pan of a wheel mill and the required amount of the charcoal and sulfur mixture
added to the wheel mill pan. The mill batch is then wetted with the desired
amount of water.

C. The wheel mill is then started and the batch is worked under the wheels for
a specific period of time.

D. The batch is then "lifted" from the pan and transported to the powder
press.


E. After breaking up the pieces of "mill cake" the powder is laid up in press
frames. The powder is then pressed for a specified period of time at a
specified pressure or at a specified loss of original volume.

F. After removal from the press the press cakes are allowed to age and harden
for a specified period of time or moisture content loss.

G. The press cakes are then broken into smaller pieces prior to corning (or
graining).

H. The powder is then broken into grains of varying size in the corning mill.

I. Drying and glazing are carried out in rotating glazing barrels. Air is
passed through the barrel to carry moisture away from the surfaces of the
grains while the mass within the barrels tumbles. (Numerous variations in how
this process is carried out from one manufacturer to another.)

J. The powder grains are then sorted into particular size ranges
(granulations) using varying size screens.

K.. The powder is then packed in appropiate containers.

Keep in mind that this is the basic process and that different manufacturers
have variations in the process that involve batch and lot blending along with
variations in the exact sequence of processing. Ingredients and Proportions

Potassium nitrate.
Potassium nitrate is used as the source of oxygen in propellant types of black
powder. Over the period of the past 100 years the source of potassium nitrate has
changed several times. Presently, almost all potassium nitrate is produced by
reacting potassium chloride with nitric acid with chlorine gas as a by-product.
Almost every country with salt deposits is in the business of producing various
potassium salts.
There are a number of processes used to convert potassium chloride to potassium
nitrate via nitric acid. Some processes are more effecient than others.
Published purity data shows that minimum purity is 99.0% and a maximum purity of
99.9%. The process used in Israel produces a less pure product that is then
given a second pass. The product from the second pass is roughly 99.9% purity
potassium nitrate with chlorides less than 350 parts per million.
I point these differences out since residual potassium chloride in black powder
is what gives the powder's combustion residue corrosive properties. Black powder
that is almost entirely free of chlorides is relatively non-corrosive.
Some powder-makers specify 99.5% purity potassium nitrate while others might
insist on 99.9% purity. In many respects it is more important to look at what
the actual impurities consist of rather than fractional differences in amounts.
The so-called standard 75 parts of potassium nitrate is not really all that
standard. The Swiss presently make a rifle type black powder using 78 parts of
potassium nitrate in the powder. Old French and English powder makers used 76 to
77 parts of potassium nitrate in the faster burning grades of small-arms black
powder. Other types, such as blasting or safety fuse, may be formulated with 70
to 72 parts of potassium nitrate.

Sulfur

As with potassium nitrate, the sources of commercial sulfur changed several
times during the past 100 years. During the first half of this century, sulfur
from the Gulf Coast replaced sulfur imported from Italy. More recently, sulfur
produced as a by-product of petroleum refining began to replace Gulf Coast
sulfur.
Powder-makers will alter the proportion of sulfur depending on the type of
powder being produced or use fractional alterations in the formula to adjust
final burn rates in the powder.

Charcoal

While the properties of all three ingredients are important, properties of the
charcoal used to make black powder are critical to what a shooter would perceive
as "quality" in a black powder.
When the formula for black powder is shown as a chemical equation the charcoal
ingredient will be shown as pure carbon, or C. In actuallity you would not want
to make a black powder using pure carbon.
Numerous types of wood have been used to make black powder and why some are
better than others has been treated as something of a mystery.
Slow-burning types of black powder may be prepared from any form of cellulose,
starch or sugar. In the preparation of faster-burning types, such as a musket or
rifle powder, the acceptable type of woods are reduced in number. In preparing
the very fast-burning sporting type powders the acceptable woods are few in
number.
Cellulose is considered to be a "high-polymer" of sugar. Sugar molecules form
long chains which form the basic units of structure in the cellulose. The number
of sugar units forming a unit of structure in cellulose may vary from a few
thousand to over one million.
Wood "cell" structure varies considerably from one species to another. The
tubular "macro-structure" of wood also varies considerably.
Different species of woods produce varying amounts of lignin which acts as a
binder within the macro-structure of the wood. Starches and simple sugars are
often stored within the wood's macro-structure. All of these play some part in
how the wood will char, the char's final properties and how the char will behave
in a black powder.
The macro-structure of the wood must be fine and somewhat delicate. Wood with a
thick, or heavy, structure will be difficult to grind to the particle sizes
required for faster-burning types of black powder.
Ideal charcoals based on type of powder being prepared.

Sporting: In order of preference; Glossy Buckthorn Alder, Black Alder and then
White Willow.
Rifle or Musket: Alder or Willow. Maple will work, but not as well.
Blasting: almost any form of cellulose, starch or sugar. (Sugar though is most
hygroscopic.)
Charcoal used in black powder is not pure carbon. The char is composed of pure
carbon, partially carbonized cellulose, minerals and varying amounts of
phenolic-structured liquid hydrocarbons (specifically creosote).


Water
Water is never shown as an ingredient in black powder since only trace amounts
are found in the finished powder. With some powder-makers, a batch of black
powder may contain as much as 10%, by weight, of water at the beginning of the
wheel-milling cycle.
The purity of the water used to wet the batch of powder, during processing, it
critical to the chemical stability of the powder. The use of impure water will
result in a black powder lacking in chemical stability. A black powder lacking
in chemical stability will loose ballistic strength and the powder grains will
become weak and crumble as they loose the cohesiveness of the mass imparted by
press densification. This process will occur at varying rates independent of
actual storage conditions.

Powder Processing:
Given space constraints I will confine the discussion to three critical areas in
the powder-making process. These being; wheel-milling, press densification and
drying and glazing.
Black powder is described as an "intimate mixture" of the three main
ingredients. One might aptly state that wheel-milling techniques govern the
degree of intimacy of the mixture in the finished powder.
While stamp mills had long been used to incorporate black powder they are no
longer used on a commercial scale for a number of reasons. Wheel mills of
varying size are standard in the industry.
Wheel mills are essentially "mix mullers". During wheel-milling, the particle
size of the ingredients is reduced and the particles brought into intimate
contact with each other. The action of the large wheels is that of pressure
smearing of the batch. The weight of the wheels, combined with the smearing
action, breaks down the crystaline potassium nitrate. Particle size reduction of
the charcoal and sulfur is assisted by the abrasive action of the sharp edges of
the potassium nitrate crystals.
In essence, the longer you mill a batch, the faster it will burn...to a point
that is.
If one grinds the 3 ingredients to the required particle size range, in
something other than a wheel mill, it usually results in a slow-burning black
powder. Only a wheel mill is able to produce the degree of intimate contact, in
the ingredients, so necessary for fast-burning types of black powder.

And here is what that is all about..........
Milling a batch of black powder, in a wheel mill, requires the addition of water
to form a paste. The problem is that charcoal and sulfur particles want nothing
to do with being covered in water. Sulfur and charcoal are both hydrophobic
(water-hating). Charcoal rich in "volatiles" (creosote) are hydrophobic in the
extreme!
If you place finely powdered sulfur and/or charcoal in water they simply float
on the surface of the water. If you attempt to force the mass under the surface
it will hold a large bubble of air around the mass. This hydrophobic property
prevents any degree of uniform mixing or dispersal of the two within the greater
mass of potassium nitrate. The charcoal and sulfur simply form clumps within the
mass. The finished burn would exhibit a slow and erratic burn rate.
The pressure smearing action of the wheel mill reduces the particle size of the
ingredients and strips away any film of air encapsulating the particles of
sulfur and charcoal. Removal of the air film encapsulation promotes uniform
dispersion within the mass and "intimate" contact between the ingredient
particles.
Actual wheel-milling time is determined by the weight of the wheels, the speed
of the mill, powder type being milled and the weight of the charge in the mill
pan.

Press Densification
Black powder, as it comes from the wheel mill, is totally unsuited for use as a
firearms propellant. "Wheel cake" is of low density and is rather friable. That
is to say that it crumbles easily. To be useful as a propellant powder it must
be densified and consolidated. Wheel cake has a burn rate far too fast for a
propellant powder.
Press densification is little more than a compacting process. During pressing, a
rifle type powder would loose about 45% of it's original volume. Sporting type
powders would loose about 40% of the original volume while a musket type would
loose about 50%.
Press densification will slow the burn rate of the powder roughly in proportion
to the degree of densification. There is a point, however, where the burn rate
drops drastically with increasing density.
Press densification imparts mechanical strength to the mass of powder. Keep in
mind that 75%, by weight, of the mass is potassium nitrate. The mass being
pressed is about 2% water. Wherever potassium nitrate crystals contact each
other they will begin to fuse together. This fusing of contacting surfaces
promotes hardness and mechanical strength.

Glazing and Drying

Powder press "cakes" are broken up and "grained" in a corning mill. The next
step in the process is drying and glazing.
Before launching into the subject of glazing it would be best to explain that
glazing has nothing to do with the use of graphite applied to the powder grains.

After pressing, the grained powder will contain varying amounts of water. The
amount may vary from 1 to 2%. If the powder grains are dried on trays they will
form loose deposits of potassium nitrate crystals on the surfaces of the grains.
Any water migrating to the surfaces of the grains will do so as a saturated
solution of potassium nitrate.
By tumbling the grains, during drying, the crystals of potassium nitrate are
compacted and fused into a thin shell, or skin, covering the surfaces of the
powder grains. Under high magnification this thin skin, or shell, will give the
appearance that the powder grain had been coated with glass. The appearance of
the glass-like skin is where the term "glazed" powder originated. Large grains
of powder will have a thicker glaze since the large grain sizes have a greater
amount of mass relative to their surface area.
The thickness of the glaze formed on the grains will, in part, determine ease of
ignition of individual grains of powder and govern flame spreading rates within
a mass of powder grains. Heavy glazing slows the process of ignition and
combustion of the powder. Heavy, or thick, glazing was used to slow powder
charges behind heavy projectiles.
When high-purity potassium nitrate is used to fabricate the black powder the
glaze imparts a degree of moisture resistance to the powder grains. Below 90%
relative humidity the powder will be little effected by water vapor in the air.
Above 90% R.H. the powder grains will pick up only trace amounts of moisture
which will be quickly passed back to the air when the R.H. falls below 90%.

NOTES
During the 19th century the type of powder used in a specific type of small-arm
depended on it's caliber and projectile mass. The powder type, in turn,
determined the rate of twist in rifled arms shooting round balls.
Sporting type - Used in round-ball guns up to .45 caliber. Used at 1 grain per
caliber, or less, i.e., 45 grains in .45 caliber bores. Also used in the smaller
pistol cartridges. Sporting powder, more often than not, would be found in a
grain size best described as an equal mixture of our present 2f and 3f
granulation sizes. The rate of twist in a rifled round-ball barrel would be 1
turn in 48 inches.
Rifle type - Used in round ball guns larger than .45 caliber but smaller than
.58 caliber. Used at roughly 1.4 to 1.5 grains per caliber. Used in numerous
black powder cartridges. A .45 caliber bore would call for 60 grains of powder.
This powder type was also generally found as an equal mixture of our present 2f
and 3f. The rate of twist in a rifled round-ball gun would be 1 turn in 56 or 1
turn in 60 inches.
Musket type - Used in .58 caliber, and larger, round ball guns. Also used
extensively in cartridge rifles. A .45 caliber would give a point of diminishing
returns of 70 grains of powder, hence the .45-70 cartridge. Prior to the
introduction of elongated projectiles it was usually found as an equal mixture
of 1f and 2f. After the introduction of elongated projectiles it was used in a
straight 1f size in some arms while the equal mixture of 1f and 2f continued to
be used in other arms. In a rifled round-ball gun, the rate of twist would be 1
turn in 70 inches.
Special powders.
While the production of musket powder is thought to have ceased at the end of
the American Civil War it continued in production as a "special" powder supplied
to commercial cartridge loading companies.

Grain size variation.
The standardization of grain sizes began in first half of the 19th century.
Numbering systems were, however, far from standardized. With one powder
manufacturer, grain size designations were backwards from the norm to certain
customers

Regarding using rock polishers as ball mills:

It has worked well for me. The main thing is to
get one BIG enough. Smaller they are, the slower
they work.

I currently use one designated as a 12 lb. size
for small batches of this and that- I've made BP
in it as well. For biger batches a 50 lb. unit is a
nice size, but as an amateur you wouldn't want
to spend the money.

Eloxite Inc. - Lortone tumblers (http://www.creditcardcastle.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi)

Look at Lapidary tools, then at tumblers.

You'll want some good milling media to go with it.
I use 1" X 1" ceramic cylinders.
Lead works, but wears away fast and contaminates
your powder. Don't even think of using it
with Chlorate or Perchlorate. Brass is great
for BP, but quite expensive.

========================

Sparky-
!Google rec.pyrotechnics (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&group=rec.pyrotechnics)

I've read it but I don't post there. The
flaming and noob levels there bug me sometimes.

But the guy who taught me to make shells
loves it and won't go on PML 'cause he says
they're to "politicaly correct"... Plus I think
he sometimes likes to blow off steam ripping some
idiot a new one there, which he can't do at work or in
his capacity as a PGII officer

Bloody great advise and that article was very interesting.
I was wondering if a food liquidizer would work as good as a rock tumbler, I’ve just done some charcoal and sulphur in it and it has become very fine, after leaving in there for awhile, was wondering if there is anyway of knowing how fine is fine, I’ve been blending it for about an hour and it is very fine with no visible bits of sulphur etc.
I wasn’t going to add the potassium into the blender yet as I’m worried about the metal blades in the blender igniting the mixture should I be worried?, as for making the meal into a press cake would a vice work as good as the one shown on Dan Williams's site, should lose about 40% of its volume I think so a vice should work.
if anyone could let me know or knows of any tips they could give

I’ll get back to you on the final product using the Dan Williams’s method.

again I cant thank you guys enough never thought I would learn this much in this amount of time on black powder

Uhm....
dude, DO NOT PUT THE POTASSIUM NITRATE IN YOUR BLENDER WITH THE REST OF YOUR INGREDIENTS.

didn't look like anyone else was gonna say that.

thanks man, good job i didnt :)
I only thought I had to due to the fact of the mixture being homologous as described by Dan williams, I ended up putting it all in a biscuit tin and shaking it for ages, I thought this would work as good as any tumbler, because as far as I know you only need to get the kno3 well mixed in, and shaking should do that. the finished mixture has been pressed and is drying at the mo :D

You've probably realised that manufacturing good BP isn't as simple as you'd first imagine, but it doesn't have to be as complicated as the industrial method above, or like Dan Williams.

Dan Williams' process is about as sophisticated as an amatuer is likely to get. You could go further, but you'd have to have a real devotion to BP above all else.

You don't need a ballmill, you can use the CIA method. You also don't have to press/corn your BP - the above text states that the powder before pressing (Meal D/press cake) is too fast for a propellant, this is good for us, as we want the fastest possible powder for the least effort.

No one bothers with glazing, as we don't need our BP to have a shelf-life several years long even if the container is left open to the air.

Very few people by actual ball-mills, There are a handful of companies in the US who sell them, but you won't find any in this country and the cost of importing one would likely be prohibitive. Anyway, the ones I've seen for sale were greatly overpriced IMO. Some people use rcok tumblers as mentioned, although I believe that they're not as fast at producing BP as dedicated ball mills. Many people make a mill from scratch, which isn't as hard as you might think. I had good results with a small, simple mill I made several years ago from things I had lying about. It wasn't great, but it did the job, although the batches were small.

I've been meaning to make a cheap, simple mill from a corded mains drill and post an article on it for a while. I might just finally get round to doing it.

On another note, it's good to see a source that backs up the idea I've always held that corning BP slows its burnrate :)

I made a half-arsed attempt at corning by BP and abandoned it. The Meal powder was good enough for everything I tried it at, although it's messier to work with than granulated BP.

One small point...

Whilst waiting for wet or damp BP to dry, DO NOT attempt to speed up the process with a microwave - a teaspoon sized amount of damp BP ignites after around 10 seconds on full power.

Ya, deffinetly don't microwave your BP ;).

Corning BP by pressing it then breaking it up is not neccesary if you just want to make it easier to work with. All you have to do is add about 2% dextrin to the mix when you are milling it and then make it a bit damp, compress it into a lump with a large dowel and hand pressure, then gently break it up over a screen, letting smaller grains drop through the screen. This improves the burn rate significantly as well as making it cleaner to work with, unlike compressing it which slows the burn rate. The only difference my friend finds with this BP as opposed to pressing then breaking it up is that for making things like roman candles, when you ram in the delay composition the BP grains consolidate into one grain, making burning slow. So you can't use it for roman candles, but that's about it.

My friend often makes black powder this way and the other day he found that his BP was going moldy! It still works fine though after being dried out. Just make sure it's dry before storing it and you won't have a problem.

Keep in mind also that speed isn't everything. Consistent BP is more important, that way you know how much to use in various projects.

BTW Meal D is different than the powder that comes straight from the mill. Meal D has been pressed and then broken up into very small grains. Mike Swisher has posted a few times about this (and Meal A etc) on rec.pyrotechnics.

There are so many ways of making (what most people would consider) BP I've long since given up trying to keep track of them all!

Thanks for the input sparky, I’ll make sure not to use a micro :)

Well my bp is complete I didn’t compress it a lot I just used my weight on it for awhile then broke it up and sifted it all in relatively small grains, its now dry and ready to use I tested a small amount on some of that fireproof breezeblock and boy what a difference, normally if i did a small trail of it, it would burn along it with a flame about 3inches high and would take about 3-5 seconds to die out if the trail was about 4-5cm long, this new stuff burns much brighter with a flame easily 1ft high and burns out in about 1 sec using the same amount as before, wasn’t sure whether to post in a proper section so I’m gonna leave it here in the water cooler as I don’t want to be kicked :)

now that i have some black powder (not the best but good powder) what’s the best method to make it go boom, any links that explain, I don’t want it to flare or anything, my knowledge on blasting caps and such are basic but if anyone could let me know what would be the best method to put the bp in so that it can go boom.
any help greatly appreciated and I’ll make sure I record it for you so u can have a peak at how it went.

Thanks again

To make a traditional black powder banger:

First, make a cube shaped box of thin cardboard and tape. This is best done by cutting out a cross shaped piece composed of six squares... 4 in a row, and two on either side at the second square from one end. It will look like that Christian symbol when cut out. Fold up the box, leaving the last flap open for loading, and tape all the seams. Fill the box with fine grained black powder. Make a thin tube, just wide enough inside for a piece of black match and perhaps two inches long. Plug the end with a scrap of tissue, and place it in one corner of your filled box. Close the last flap, and secure all seams with tape.

You now have a cardboard cube filled with black powder, with the tube for your fuse sticking out of one corner at an angle.

Get some strong natural fiber string. Plastic string melts and doesn't take glue well, it will not serve for this. The string should be strong enough so you can't easily break it with you bare hands.

Wrap the box with the string, around and around in a tight spiral so that each turn contacts the last turn tightly. When you've done this so the box is completely wrapped so that only the two cardboard ends are visible, turn the box 90* and repeat. Then turn it 90* again, on the other axis and wrap it again. When you've done this, you will have a cube with two layers of string at 90* to each other on every side. Take the string wrapped cube and dip it in carpenter's glue, holding it by the tube. Hang it up by the tube to dry. When dry, remove the bit of tissue paper from the end of the tube and insert your fuse. Fire and enjoy... A nice strong case with no flying metal bits to find you.

Thank you Bert. I’ll get cracking on that later today, i now see that its pretty stupid to use metal in order to get the bang, I didn’t realise how easy it was to make a strong case out of cardboard and string.

I’ll let you know how I get on, was just wondering as a final question on this topic, how big should the cube be?, for some reason in my min I was thinking 6cm3 don’t know why :) and does the black powder need to be compressed or is it good just added to it.
Thanks again Bert I’ll make sure to take a pic and vid so u can see where no doubt i have gone wrong (again ;) )

I stand corrected on the Meal D issue. Perhaps I was confusing with simply "meal powder"?

Bert is the best one to tell you, but I would say not to pack the BP in. At best I think you'd get diminishing returns (size of bang versus amount of BP used) and at worst you'd lower the burnrate enough to produce a poor rupture.

It's a good method for a banger, and probably serves somewhat as an introduction to shell construction - spiking and all that, sore fingers!

Try a search for "polumna" both here and on google, these crackers aren't the most powerful, but they are very quick and easy.

In my good old kewl days, before ear hair, I used to make a passable BP. I'd make a saturated solution of KNO3, pour it in a shallow pan then add the previously crushed and mixed sulfer and charcoal. I used about 78% KNO3. As the stuff slowly dried, I would crush the precipitated crystals every day. On the day when there was finally no visable standing water, I would crush the **** out of it, mixing it well. Then spread it out and let it air dry a few more days. I got my sulfer and saltpeter at the pharmacy and the charcoal from the fireplace where we burned pine and other light woods. I used clear mountain stream tapwater. I guess I was lucky that I got good ingredients and lived in the desert, or it probably wouldn't have worked so well.

And it worked pretty darned well, too. One of my favoite things was to fill up a fluorescent tube starter with the BP and stick a fuse in the top, not bothering to cover up the open cross. With the fuse end pointing up, these would "whooomph!" with a mushroom cloud, fall over on their side sizzling, then "whoosh" almost straight up about 15 feet. They would do this about 80% of the time.

A long plastic , 3/8 inch hose (closed at one end) and filled with BP would sizzle, boom, jump, sizzle, boom, etc until the end. I seem to remember that each 4 inch section was good for a cycle.

I'm just glad I never tried to fill up an empty CO2 cartidge with this stuff. That would have gotten me into trouble or hurt really bad.

Just a bit of info for you, I’ve taken the picture of the finished product, but I don’t know how i can condense it, its straight of a digi cam and is something stupid like 600kb and its jpeg.

I haven’t set it off yet as I’m importing some fuse from America, i tried black match but it didn’t work all to good, very inconstant and it seamed to dangerous, I think I watered down the bp to much so it was basically soaked kno3 into the string basically it would spark then die down then spark again but burned at about 1 foot per hour lol