I understand that many forum members want to maintain their indentity, but I would think it would be interesting to meet up in a bar and have a few drinks with members in the area if their is any. It would be nice to talk about a common interest and make a "fireworks display" perhaps. I dont find too many people are proficient in my areas of interest or even have an interest.

Im an American in Germany so its even harder to find people like that, ill be back in Germany in a few months.

What does everyone think about that?

I can think of several instances of this being suggested in the past few years. The general consensus is that it is a bad idea.

As much as it sounds like fun, there is too much to lose.

Maybe it would be more interesting for one person to organize, with the agreement of the city, a pyrotechnics contest... We could all come to show our fireworks (or not, I don't make many myself), and we could find a way to meet us without arousing suspicion.

Well I can understand the census of it being a bad idea because of the nature of the beast, but those who would approve of the idea it would be nice. I dont have any reason to want to hid my identity that bad, more than likely it would be small groups in quite a few areas.

A pyro contest would cost a huge amount of $ to put on, in Ca anyways.

neat :)

we could even do it as a charity fund raiser for the local Police, I`m sure they wouldn`t take much convincing to attend :)

(I`ll bring the COBs) :D

I never said anything about doing anything illegal. It seems like the popular census is that being a member of this forum is being a criminal. I understand what most of us are interested in could be illegal in some places, but our activities arent tattooed on us. If I were to commit an illegal act I wouldnt advertise it as a action I took. Im just asking for a census on the members that would be interested in meeting, having a few beers and shooting the shit.

Don`t get me wrong, in an IDEAL world, it would be a great idea, I`de love to sit over a few cold ones and "chew the fat" with other folk that share the same interests.

BUT.... not in this lifetime!

it just wouldn`t be a smart thing to do, it`s yet ANOTHER right that`s been stollen from us by the paranoid powers that be.
I agree IT`S wrong that we have to be somewhat "under ground" regarding what`s essentialy a victimless crime and it`s THEY that say we`re criminals, but it`s NOT an ideal world, and so underground it has to be :(

As much as i would like to do that, I am paranoid. Its not bad for you perhaps but you are EOD IIRC and therefore you have some right to be involved in these type of activities. To be honest i really wouldnt mind, as i have not done anything harmful to anyone, save some stumps and the like, and i do not intend to. I like explosives for the reason that i like them, it is interesting and fun, i hope to be some sort of explosives expert when i grow up where i can play with the stuff and get paid for it. What exactly does EOD do, and how did you get in it?

You have to enlist in the military to go be an EOD tech.
EOD school (EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE DISPOSAL) "trains officer and enlisted personnel of the Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force in the best methods and procedures for performing explosive ordnance reconnaissance, identification, access, recovery, and disposal (Blow up) of all conventional surface explosive ordnance, BIO-CHEM and nuclear weapons."

Check it out--->https://www.cnet.navy.mil/eods/command/

The pig is awaiting, the bait is ready. Where is the fish? :rolleyes:

Interesting! but I had to deny the certificate it asked for, I`m just as paranoid too!

not because I do anything wrong, but because THEY say what I do is wrong :(
One should only use FACTORY MADE fireworks, and making/possesing homemade varieties is Ilegal :(

I tried MANY!!! times to joins the military, they won`t have me, I`m too busted up (bones etc...) and didn`t even pass a medical paper!
I have a spotless history, and even when I asked for perhaps warehouse or desk work during 2 wars (Falklands and 1992 Iraq) I was still turned down, so what chance does someone like me stand? NON at all!
and so... I do Fireworks and the occasional H.E to shift a stump or remove a garden shed and am forced underground because of my interests :(
you`re one lucky son of a bitch! to get to do all this shit legaly!

hell! I can`t even get a civilian job due to my disabilities!

I WOULD however like to know, why YOU chose here as a site to frequent. I would have thought you`d have known all there is to know re; HE and Pyro etc...? and that it would be against .Gov ethics to share any that you knew?

Speaking of military EOD people, what happened to cameroneod.
we haven't heard from him in a while.

I think NBK offended him, im not sure though. However I am curious as to why you are here also, cameron said it was part of his job to be here, and i didnt quite understand what he was supposed to be doing here. Any help cyclonite?

Well, I think EOD people would like to know which things can be made from scratch, as that are mostly the bombs they are defusing.

If you know what's popular in the scene, you know how to deal with it.
And ofcourse the information on this forum is very useful for covert operations, eg how to make explosives with OTC chemicals. Wouldn't surprise me if the CIA or whatever agency does covert ops these days includes some of the tricks of ours in their handbooks.

There is a small chance that in my near future(5-6 years), I could become rather wealthy, due to a business that myself and a friend of mine started. Wealthy enough that is, to possibly purchase a small island. My chances of this actually happening probably aren't that great mebbe 1 in 5. If however on the off-chance that it did happen, you would all be invited(explosives of course would be legal in my little country:D ), however I just wonder whether or not anyone would actually be interested. There is really no purpose to even try to hide your identity if you are a member of a board like this. the (insert 3 letter agency) has a file a mile long on you i'm sure. If the 3 letter agency wanted to get you then they would. And yes, I do know I sound exactly like a cop, saying all of this :p

I dont know why we are all so paranod about meeting people from the forum, unless you are very good at covering your tracks im sure everyone here could be picked up at any second. I am more worried about it being some normal person that wants to get glory for catching a"terrorist"
I'll be there! What does your company do(general no need for specifics)

We haven't started business yet so legally I can't tell you much, but it's related to E-bay and online auctions. I can't really say much more than that.

I think NBK offended him...


He offend me!

Cameron is still lurking around but, like all government workers, they take and take, but never give. I've noticed this of people who say they're in the military. They come here and talk about trivial shit, but never contribute anything of significance that adds to our knowledge.

Have any of them ever posted any info from their FM's and TM's here? Something we don't already have on the FTP? Is the insider knowledge and skills being shared? Nope, not happening! I've gotten more information about explosives and weapons technology from open-sources on the 'net than from all of our "military" members combined.

It's GIVE as well as TAKE people. :mad:

Oh sure, they'll come here and read everything we do and take it back to hoard in their nest, but lord forbid these greedy ants are asked to share a bit of their sugar!

Cyclonite, I believe you mentioned something about some kind of breaching charge in a thread, and said what it could do, but you never said HOW to make the charge. Why not try sharing something useful for a change, eh?

Anyways, I'm ranting, so everyone just ignore everything I just said at your own peril.

Rather than weet with the intention of meeting, why not get the forum t-shirt thing going, then advertise here that you'll be at whatever event ? You don't say you'll be there, but if you go, you wear the shirt or whatever, so only forumites can identify other forumites...

Therefore, seeing as no one would be stupid enough to bring anything else incriminating with them, and seeinga s no one would actually talk without a mutual nod or something.. it could be fairly safe. I don't hide my identity too well, I have no need to, but I doubt I'd turn up to anything like this, unless it was just down the road.

NBK, I may not be real military, but I am going to get some real military stuff uploaded when I borrow a scanner. I upped the caltrops and things when i last had access to a scanner. I hope I can improve your opinion of forces personell.

Govt ethics? Come on, I could give a shit about what the govt says is right and wrong. I have my own ethics and im not careless enough to end up in jail. NBK, I share knowledge on any subject I have knowledge on. I dont know what inside info your think im "hoarding" but to tell you the truth as far as information such as synth and homemade shit most senior members know more about it than I. I know how munitions work and how to destroy them or render them safe also on chem and bio. Id be more than happy to answer any questions I can and provide any information I have. I cant post the publications I use, the pubs are secret and Id face a long prison term if I did that. Besides I dont want those to fall into the wrong hands, its mostly how our shit and some foreign shit works and how to render them safe and dispose of. Oh and that other EOD guy, that isnt his job. It is good to knowI guess but most of the IEDs we come across we x-ray and use the .50 cal in the right part

Im here to learn and teach what I know...thats it. Military is way different from CIA FBI ect..... Theres not reason to be paranoid of military. If you do something risky, dont get caught, be smart about it.

I think what Cyclonite is saying is that he knows how to use devices but not make them, why would he have to know how to make them? He has access to things which dont need to be made, its like making Dynamite when you own a mine.

As far as making HE yes thats why im here so I can learn, but shape charges and improvised demo I can do pretty well

It all depends on how much training youve had I suppose. Iv had quite a bit on clandestine manufacturing. Brit IED school goes into it a bit also. Im with you though. Its not as if we can post TO's freely. That'd be stupid and a great way to get admission to Leavenworth.

what are TO's?

Here in Aus, TO's are Training Objectives, they detail what lessons are taught in what order, and what each lesson covers etc. There is a set of ordered TO's for each area, like First aid, surviavl etc.

From what he's saying, I assume he means what we call 'pams', Training Pamphlets. Such as this one here: Volume 3 Pamphlet 4: Demolitions, (RAE and assault pioneers), in the Manual of Land Warfare series.

You are correct. TO's = Technical Orders.

Are you serious? Paying someone to give you information that’s already available? Getting together is not a bad idea to some of us, those who are "legit" and those without great paranoia. I haven’t done anything that anyone could prove and I work with explosives, its hard to find people with the same fascination and of the same caliber to BS with.

To Cyclonite:
You make it sound so dirty.But I guess your right going to an exotic locale and learning advanced lab technique while having a kickass time for little more than a regular vacation is a terrible idea.I will delete my previous post and hang my head in capitalist,beujois shame.

:p

Hmm.

Join the PGII (http://www.pgi.org) and go to a convention.

Being around 2,000 or so other people who
don't think you're odd for making things
that go boom is a good thing...

I'll be in Fargo ND next August. Anyone
who wants to, I'll see you there.

It's fun to be using explosives and
telling a bunch of cops and firemen
what to do instead of hiding under
a bush untill they go away.

And anyone who is at least 18 and wants
a LEGITIMATE JOB in display fireworksor/SFX
in the midwest US, contact me.

It is hard, dirty work. You won't get rich,
so it needs to be something you love
doing.

Are ex-felons prohibited from the trade?

NBK2000-

Ex-felons now need a variance granted.
I have a friend who got convicted of a MAJOR
felony 30 odd years ago. He's been completely
clean since, and had been working on shows and
manufacturing shells since. We're now in the process
of trying to get him a variance.

The law changed last May. It's such a new law that
there's very few precedents. We don't know how
it's going to go, and there's nobody we know who's gone
through the process. You can find the laws on the ATFE
web site-

Foreigners of any type also need a variance. We know
a Canadian guy who got one-

Send me an e-mail with a bit more info on your situation?
It can't hurt to ask. The form we have to have anyone with
"access" (ie- everyone) fill out is nearly identical to the
one you'd have to fill out to buy a pistol.

BTW, the reason I posted that offer is we're trying to
line up display crew for next summer. We want a list
of interested people by next Spring so we can plan
our training.

Let me guess...9/11, right?

I'm just curious about it. I'm not going to try for it since I've already choosen a career path in graphic arts, but I'm sure there are others who could use the information.

You say this kind of job doesn't pay much, but how much does it pay?

Nothing against you bert, but while your offer of legit work may be tempting to some people, I'd have to advise everyone to avoid taking it up.

Given the nature of the Forum, the post9/11 legal enviroment, and the general police/fed presence here, we have to RTPB "Trust No One". But that's just me. If someone did end up getting a legit job, and not get arrested, after contacting bert, more power to them. :)

Also, whatever you're using for typing your replies needs to stop being used, because it's wrapping the words short of the windows width.

Type your reply into the forums reply window, or use notepad with wordwrapping turned off prior to copy/paste, to correct the problem.

Yes, 9/11 and the stupid knee-jerk response by our elected officials. They wanted it to look
like they'd done something... All they did was create a nightmare for everyone in the explosives
and fireworks industries. Trust me, terrorists aren't looking to steal a few display shells. They
have better toys. You should know.

For a while, it looked like we'd have to make do with the fireworks allready in the country for
this 4th of July. Until enough of called our elected reps and told them we were telling all the
small towns that weren't going to have a 4th of July display because they'd made it impossible
to import or transport anything by rail, and telling them EXACTLY who voted yes for
this nonsense. And called every newspaper and news service and told them the same.
Somehow they made an exception for 1.3 G (Class "B") very quickly then-

All the Australian pyros who used to come to the US and work the Independence day shows got
screwed, they were foreign nationals and couldn't be cleared in time. Good old congress-
Saved us from those Australian terrorists!

Being a pyro is not something that is a years 'round pays-the-mortgage job for most in the US.
All of our crew are part timers, picking up a few days here and there except for me and my
girlfriend. And WE work other jobs, and crew for others in any spare time we have. You do it
because you like it.

If you want to earn money from fireworks, you'd better open up a roadside stand and
sell sparklers to the public. Better yet, import containers of 1.4G (Class "C") from China-
Those are the people making a living at it, mostly.

As far as being worried about making contact: Everyone should certainly stay within
their own "comfort zone". But as you well know, any of you who've posted here are allready
known to any US authority who cares about it. Which should you worry more about:
Posting the details of your chemistry projects and the shit you blew up with them or asking
about a legal job?

If you care to do a bit of research, go to PML and look at my posting history. If you're
really worried, contact the president of the PGII and ask him if I'm a fed. Ask the publication
VP the same, he taught me to make cylinder shells. Then contact a few Midwestern companies.
Try Precocious Pyrotechnics, J&M Displays, Island Fireworks, Fantasy Fireworks (The MN one,
not the NY one). Ask the current president of the local club (Northern Lighters, nlp.pyro.org)
Paul Marcio if I'm a fed. Ask the LaCross WI Skyrockers the same question. Or don't. I could
give a rat's ass.

And WTF are these RTPB's? You keep referring to them, but I'm unable to finds a
comprehensive list anywhere. I kind of get the gist of it, but I'd be interested in
seeing the full compilation.

I hope my margins now please you more...

If you care to do a bit of research, ...I could give a rat's ass.


OK, so maybe you're not a Fed, but what's to stop them from paying you a visit later on and leaning on you to tell them who came to you via your "help wanted" ad on the Forum? Like you'd really keep your mouth shut about it...:rolleyes:

For all we know, you've already been leaned on and told to help to entrap some of us with the proverbial "offer you can't refuse" of legit pyro work. How long would the feds have to wait for a forumite you hired on to do some experiments with materials he obtained through his work with you? Not long, I'd think, and that becomes "diversion with terrorist intent" or some similar bullshit.

We get people on here all the time asking for "help" in various forms, whether in person/telephone/etc for things that may or may not be legal. That's always been a No-No here, because we don't want people getting involved with each other in things that may turn illegal in one form or another, because it could easily come back on us as a "conspiracy".

Even if the forumite had never posted a thing about making anything remotely illegal, the very fact that they're a member here could be construed by an aggressive federal prosecutor (and they're all aggressive now, thank to the Chief Asshole in washington) as being a "conspirator" in (fill in the bullshit crime de jour) who's joined you in an attempt to obtain "ingredients for making bombs" since (naturally) pyrotechnicians would have access to major amounts of chems that would otherwise draw suspicious attention from chemical suppliers.

The vast majority of us here are just pyros who like things that go boom and are not "terrorists". But I don't think the government views us the same way and would be more than eager to catch a few of us slipping or putting ourselves in a positon where they could shut us down on some pretext supported by our own carelessness.

Under US law, if one person does something illegal alone, no one else can be held accountable for it. But, if two or more people are involved in something together, and only one of them does something illegal, than they ALL can be charged as conspirators, even if the others didn't knowingly help the person to commit the crime. Fucked up, but true.

I have the continued existance of RS.org to be concerned with, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, so getting rid of someone who may cause problems for this site, and prevention of members doing something stupid that may come back on the rest of us, is priority #1. Everything else (to me) is irrelevant.

What are you using to post with? It's even worse now than before. How hard is it to get it right like everyone else?

Searching RS.org using "RTPB" brings up 3 pages of hits. The older ones are more explainatory.

After you read it, ask yourself if YOU would want anyone else who's read it (most of us :D) working at your company, or having the feds even suspect you might. ;)

NBK, could you please e-mail me the RTPB files?

++++++

No.

NBK

Bert, please don't be offended, no one is throwing your offer back in your face and calling you a snitch, even though it may feel like it.

It's just paranoia (usually healthy), people should be aware of what could be going on behing and otherwise friendly offer.

Not to say there is anything going on, but that of any offers made throughout time, one of them could be suspect.

"No good deed goes unpunished"
-Mark Twain

Got your RTPB's. I had searched and got a few of them piecemeal.

I agree that whoever wrote them isn't getting anywhere near my magazines.

Professional pyros I have known and worked with virtually ALL went through a phase of making bangs. Most have dabbled in HE. After a while, they got bored with making holes in the dirt/taking out trees, etc. Then they moved on to more difficult and rewarding things, ones where you can have an audience to appreciate your work. The other alternative is being a professional blaster, where you actually spend most of your time making the holes to place your charges. That's just hard manual labor with some danger thrown in.

If you're too paranoid to want to take advantage of the offer, consider it withdrawn.

I do suggest when you get bored with blowing shit up, you check out the more entertaining branches of the explosives field. As I said before, we need people who actually enjoy the work for it's own sake because anyone else will quit.

And what, exactly don't you like about how my posts look? They look OK when I read them.

Your posts have either been going only about a third of the way across the screen, or going the whole width on one line, the next being a word or two, whole width, word or two, repeat. But you've gotten right now so that all the lines go all the way across.

Also, the offer can stand on your end, I'm just advising everyone on this end about the possibilities it may involve if they choose to accept it. Devils advocate, that's my job. ;)

RTPB's...confusing words with actions...just like saying agatha christie must have been a killer since she wrote about it so much.

How could someone get bored with explosives? You only get bored if you stay stuck at the same childish level of "blowing shit up". There's so much more that can be done with energetic materials than just blowing up defenseless trees and rocks. I, personally, have a much more diverse field of interest than just "blowing shit up", and have yet to become bored after almost 2 decades of E&W experimentation.

I don´t know much about law in the united states but a meeting in germany is no problem.
It i a fundamental right to meet other people and talk about whatever you like.
No question, you must not carry any illegal explosives or fireworks with you.
Electronic or printed media could be a good choise. Also nobody must fear to get busted only because you meet people in a bar or you post at a forum. If the police wants you and they would have the evidence for any illegal acts you would be already arrested. A meeting will not worsens the situation.

The laws are very different. In the Netherlands you can ask a cop for the way to the next coffeeshop to buy some shit and in the US you can get 5-10 years only for take someone with you in your car who owns a few gram of it.

have yet to become bored after almost 2 decades of E&W experimentation

To NBK:
If you are experimenting with E&W about 20 years I think we must have somewhat a similar age and you know the time before internet becomes popular. From where do you get your informations 20 years ago.

I got everything from internet. Here is a absolute E&W information desert. Also the fucking army couldn´t give a minimum of info´s.

Were did I get my information, pre-net? The only place there was...books. What we get now free for the download I had to pay $ for and wait weeks to get. And then it was usually crap, and there was no one else I could talk to about the subject, and so I was stuck with figuring it out on my own.

I can honestly say I've learned more about E&W in one month here than I did in all the years previous to my time on the Forum, simply because I can get feedback here that wasn't possible with just books. :)

The net gives us many opportunities, but we should not forget that it's important for yourself to be forced to solve problems on your own. Some people have the mentality to rather ask others than to sit back and give their own head a try at first. If you don't learn how to use your creativity you're unlikely to have what it takes when you really need it. Therefore the internet should be considered as a source of information and inspiration IMHO and not as a medium that offers complete and thought-out methods, at least if you want to do really well in your subject.

If you've ever read the "Uplift War" series by David Brin, then you know about how the Galactics are dependant on the Universal Library to answer all their questions and are thus stagnant thinkers because they've stopped thinking for themselves

"Wolfling" humans, on the other hand, not having had access to the UL, developed their spaceships, weapons, and tactics all on their own, retaining their ability to improvise and adapt, thus whipping ET butt! ;)

There's nothing wrong with starting out copying others, but that can't be the end all and be all of your skill set.

RTPB "Imitate, then innovate".