megalomania
May 18th, 2003, 03:55 PM
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-09-2001 09:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm making a simple rocket launcher from PVC, I'll use my whistle mix rockets and flash powder as my main charge. I want to know what would be a good impact sensitive mixture to put on the tip of my rockets to detonate the flash powder on impact. I was thinking of something like potassium chlorate and sulfur, or something with phosphorous, I forget. Any help would be appreciated.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-09-2001 10:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what i hear, KClO3 + S doesnt always need a shock to go off.. Just rough handling
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-09-2001 11:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An emptied(but still primed) rimfire case works extremely well as a projectile-tip initiator. The plus side is that the primer being protected by brass case, and controlled
sensitivity.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 10:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you'd need a prime for a flash powder. Flash is friction,shock, and heat sensitive so i think if it hits something solid(like a tree) it'll explode.BTW,what kind of flash are you using?-Pyro
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 11:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm using flash powder made 70/30 potassium perchlorate and and German Dark 400 mesh alum. powder. It's pretty stable, I'm still alive. I want my rockets to be able to hit something soft like soft ground(where the geese stand around) and still blow up, it will be moving pretty fast when it hits th ground.
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-10-2001 01:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, perchlorates are more stable but will still initiate from shock, especially from a rocket, those things come down fast.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 09:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, perchlorates are alittle more stable than chlorates and if you want to be sure of ignition i guess you could add sulfur but be extremely careful as perchlorates and sulfur tend to be more sensitive than one would want them to be.Anyway's,lets here about the schematics of the launcher!-Pyro
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 10:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got the idea from www.xinventions.com, I'll take a 2" by 4' piece of PVC and put an end cap on one end. I'll take one of my rocket engines and put some sort of circulir tube like a toilet paper tube mayble bigger or smaller I haven't checked to see if it fits yet, and I'll put pieces of balsa wood to fit between the engine and the tube and then a nose cone with flash powder as the main charge and an empty .22 shell as the initiator that will set off the flash powder when the rocket hits something,(hopefully a goose if my aiming is good). Maybe I'll use a mix of potassium chlorate and sulfer instead of the .22 shell, I'm hoping on getting some more ideas and opinions. I'll put a push button ignition sytem on the outside of the PVC with wires running inside to an ignitor,so I can hold it like a rocket launcher.
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-10-2001 11:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want a certain detonation on impact, don't ever depend upon a shock sensitive mixture alone. Design a fuze system with a primer that is struck by a firing pin. An inertia type system is more certain than a point detonating system. The simplefied description is a firing pin having some mass with a spring between the firing pin and the primer. Upon impact the body of your unit stops while the firing pin continues forward, overcoming the spring, and stricking the primer, igniting the filler/detonator. This system lends itself to safing with a pin or setback/slider.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-11-2001 03:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, go with the .22 ignitor, having your whole payload ignitior sensitive could be asking for trouble. You could have the .22 removable and only insert it before you fire so that the rounds are safe to transport and handle.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-11-2001 04:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if your using rockets(obviously) i would suggest forgetting the idea of makeshift fins and all that nonsense.This is where my beloved stinger missles come into mind.These are just rocket engines that have an ignition system on the side of them which makes them spin,stablizing their flight,thus spin stablized missles.These are good too,because if you put a delay at the end it will ignite your flash/payload and you won't have to worry about any extra steps or complications.If you want any more info. just ask, i think this would be a much better idea than all this .22 nonsense.-Pyro
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-11-2001 06:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spin stabilisation is a good idea. Also without the need for fins, the rocket body can be close to the diameter as the I.D of the laucher so that the exhaust gas from the rocket motor helps propell the rocket out of the launcher like a bullet.
Only problem with delay ignition is that it doesn't give you impact ignition which seems to be what he wants.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-11-2001 09:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even still, if you know what your shooting at you can make the delays accordingly.The whole idea of having makeshift fins and a .22 and other shit on a rocket just seems like a little much.Besides, i still think that if you get sensitive flash that it'll go by itself.Also, all you'd have to do is a drill a hole in the appropriate place to adapt for stinger's+they give you that extra power because of the hot gases building up pressure like you said.A nice idea would be to make the launcher a breech loader, for rapid expulsion of rockets. I can get into details about the breech and/or stinger's if your interested.-Pyro
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-12-2001 10:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, spinning is a real good idea, go into detail by all means. Is there a website on this kind off rocket or did you think of it?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-12-2001 02:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Williams has a page on spin stabilised rockets:
http://www.ctel.net/~dwilliams/stinger/stinger.html
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-12-2001 04:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan williams is the shit. The only thing is he hasn't updated his website in awhile, i really hope he does. Well, i know he has all the info. you need on stingers so just visit the page and if you want anymore info goto http://pub50.ezboard.com/f68sboardsfrm4.showMessage?topicID=15.topic.-Pyro
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-12-2001 08:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah shame he hasn't updated his site for over a year now. I think he's given up on it
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-22-2001 03:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antimony sulfide is also a good sensitizer for chlorate,perchlorate mixes.Using a chlorate-based flash would be a good idea in this case,as it is much more shock sensitive,especially when sulfur or ant. sulfide is added.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-23-2001 01:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To make it explode more reliably when it hits the ground: use two rocket motors. The first one will propell the rocket up, and has a length of fuse stuck in the end. When the motor burns out, it will ignite the fuse which goes into the next rocket motor through the nozzle. By the time the second rocket motor is ignited, the rocket will have flipped over and it will be pointing downwards. The gases from the second motor will blow off the first motor (attatched fairly weakly to the second), and then the second motor will shoot your payload down at great speed.
Just a very rough idea, but it might be worth developing.
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-23-2001 10:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Cool, I dont think this would work good for one reason, once a rocket reaches apex and it starts back down, the rocket will fall irradically, it wont actually point strait down, so getting it the propel it strait down wouldn't work well. Besides there is a chance it could land on your head
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 11:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
theres no way to stabilize a rocket in the sky, the rocket would be very inaccurate.
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-25-2001 03:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to be able to shoot the rockets horazontaly at things, Iv'e tried a couple things that haven't worked but I didn't try my newest thing, which is a .22 casing pointed downwards at the main charge then I glued four short pieces of skinny nails around the edges of the .22 shell, then put a small nut on the other end of the nails like: *** -nut
||| -nails
-----
| | -.22 casing
| |
| |
the .22 casing fits into a wooden dowl as an endplug on the end of a rocket with a payload of flash powder, the pay load is just the end of the rocket which wasn't filled by whistle mix.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-09-2001 09:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm making a simple rocket launcher from PVC, I'll use my whistle mix rockets and flash powder as my main charge. I want to know what would be a good impact sensitive mixture to put on the tip of my rockets to detonate the flash powder on impact. I was thinking of something like potassium chlorate and sulfur, or something with phosphorous, I forget. Any help would be appreciated.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-09-2001 10:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what i hear, KClO3 + S doesnt always need a shock to go off.. Just rough handling
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-09-2001 11:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An emptied(but still primed) rimfire case works extremely well as a projectile-tip initiator. The plus side is that the primer being protected by brass case, and controlled
sensitivity.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 10:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you'd need a prime for a flash powder. Flash is friction,shock, and heat sensitive so i think if it hits something solid(like a tree) it'll explode.BTW,what kind of flash are you using?-Pyro
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 11:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm using flash powder made 70/30 potassium perchlorate and and German Dark 400 mesh alum. powder. It's pretty stable, I'm still alive. I want my rockets to be able to hit something soft like soft ground(where the geese stand around) and still blow up, it will be moving pretty fast when it hits th ground.
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-10-2001 01:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, perchlorates are more stable but will still initiate from shock, especially from a rocket, those things come down fast.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 09:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, perchlorates are alittle more stable than chlorates and if you want to be sure of ignition i guess you could add sulfur but be extremely careful as perchlorates and sulfur tend to be more sensitive than one would want them to be.Anyway's,lets here about the schematics of the launcher!-Pyro
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-10-2001 10:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got the idea from www.xinventions.com, I'll take a 2" by 4' piece of PVC and put an end cap on one end. I'll take one of my rocket engines and put some sort of circulir tube like a toilet paper tube mayble bigger or smaller I haven't checked to see if it fits yet, and I'll put pieces of balsa wood to fit between the engine and the tube and then a nose cone with flash powder as the main charge and an empty .22 shell as the initiator that will set off the flash powder when the rocket hits something,(hopefully a goose if my aiming is good). Maybe I'll use a mix of potassium chlorate and sulfer instead of the .22 shell, I'm hoping on getting some more ideas and opinions. I'll put a push button ignition sytem on the outside of the PVC with wires running inside to an ignitor,so I can hold it like a rocket launcher.
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-10-2001 11:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want a certain detonation on impact, don't ever depend upon a shock sensitive mixture alone. Design a fuze system with a primer that is struck by a firing pin. An inertia type system is more certain than a point detonating system. The simplefied description is a firing pin having some mass with a spring between the firing pin and the primer. Upon impact the body of your unit stops while the firing pin continues forward, overcoming the spring, and stricking the primer, igniting the filler/detonator. This system lends itself to safing with a pin or setback/slider.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-11-2001 03:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, go with the .22 ignitor, having your whole payload ignitior sensitive could be asking for trouble. You could have the .22 removable and only insert it before you fire so that the rounds are safe to transport and handle.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-11-2001 04:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if your using rockets(obviously) i would suggest forgetting the idea of makeshift fins and all that nonsense.This is where my beloved stinger missles come into mind.These are just rocket engines that have an ignition system on the side of them which makes them spin,stablizing their flight,thus spin stablized missles.These are good too,because if you put a delay at the end it will ignite your flash/payload and you won't have to worry about any extra steps or complications.If you want any more info. just ask, i think this would be a much better idea than all this .22 nonsense.-Pyro
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-11-2001 06:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spin stabilisation is a good idea. Also without the need for fins, the rocket body can be close to the diameter as the I.D of the laucher so that the exhaust gas from the rocket motor helps propell the rocket out of the launcher like a bullet.
Only problem with delay ignition is that it doesn't give you impact ignition which seems to be what he wants.
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-11-2001 09:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even still, if you know what your shooting at you can make the delays accordingly.The whole idea of having makeshift fins and a .22 and other shit on a rocket just seems like a little much.Besides, i still think that if you get sensitive flash that it'll go by itself.Also, all you'd have to do is a drill a hole in the appropriate place to adapt for stinger's+they give you that extra power because of the hot gases building up pressure like you said.A nice idea would be to make the launcher a breech loader, for rapid expulsion of rockets. I can get into details about the breech and/or stinger's if your interested.-Pyro
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-12-2001 10:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, spinning is a real good idea, go into detail by all means. Is there a website on this kind off rocket or did you think of it?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-12-2001 02:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Williams has a page on spin stabilised rockets:
http://www.ctel.net/~dwilliams/stinger/stinger.html
Pyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 104
From: Danbury,CT,U.S.A
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-12-2001 04:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan williams is the shit. The only thing is he hasn't updated his website in awhile, i really hope he does. Well, i know he has all the info. you need on stingers so just visit the page and if you want anymore info goto http://pub50.ezboard.com/f68sboardsfrm4.showMessage?topicID=15.topic.-Pyro
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-12-2001 08:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah shame he hasn't updated his site for over a year now. I think he's given up on it
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-22-2001 03:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antimony sulfide is also a good sensitizer for chlorate,perchlorate mixes.Using a chlorate-based flash would be a good idea in this case,as it is much more shock sensitive,especially when sulfur or ant. sulfide is added.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-23-2001 01:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To make it explode more reliably when it hits the ground: use two rocket motors. The first one will propell the rocket up, and has a length of fuse stuck in the end. When the motor burns out, it will ignite the fuse which goes into the next rocket motor through the nozzle. By the time the second rocket motor is ignited, the rocket will have flipped over and it will be pointing downwards. The gases from the second motor will blow off the first motor (attatched fairly weakly to the second), and then the second motor will shoot your payload down at great speed.
Just a very rough idea, but it might be worth developing.
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-23-2001 10:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr Cool, I dont think this would work good for one reason, once a rocket reaches apex and it starts back down, the rocket will fall irradically, it wont actually point strait down, so getting it the propel it strait down wouldn't work well. Besides there is a chance it could land on your head
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 11:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
theres no way to stabilize a rocket in the sky, the rocket would be very inaccurate.
CyclonitePyro
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: You Wish
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-25-2001 03:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to be able to shoot the rockets horazontaly at things, Iv'e tried a couple things that haven't worked but I didn't try my newest thing, which is a .22 casing pointed downwards at the main charge then I glued four short pieces of skinny nails around the edges of the .22 shell, then put a small nut on the other end of the nails like: *** -nut
||| -nails
-----
| | -.22 casing
| |
| |
the .22 casing fits into a wooden dowl as an endplug on the end of a rocket with a payload of flash powder, the pay load is just the end of the rocket which wasn't filled by whistle mix.