the freshmaker
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Posts: 175
From: Heaven
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posted 03-09-2001 07:11 PM
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I found some kind of sciencepage (a litle kewlish) that mentioned something about mixing potassium permanganate and sulphuric acid and then you should have somekind of explosive oil. Does anyone know about this shit?
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You can't survive the life!



Agent Blak
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From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-09-2001 10:30 PM
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I don't know if that is true but I read that if you mix KMnO4 and H2O2 you get a whole bunch of steam. Apparently that is what one of the original Jet-Packs Worked off of and Some drag cars do aswell.

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Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"

Agent Blak-------OUT!!



HMTD Factory
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posted 03-10-2001 01:21 AM
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Yes I did play with the two stuff couple years ago. The oil is a super strong oxidizer, Mn2O7. (some books say Mn2O5)
Mixing H2SO4 and K2MnO4, the solution will turn dark green, and you will get very small amount of oil-like substance, which float on the surface of the solution. It's Mn2O7.

I picked up the tiny oil bead with a plastic stick and placed it on a stack of tissue paper. Within a second the oil bead turned into an orange(?) jet firing upwards.

Very unstable, the solution will even give out a dark red smoke that is barely noticable which I think is Mn2O3. The dark green solution degrade itself gradually as well.



ezekiel
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posted 03-10-2001 05:03 AM
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manganese heptoxide.
Dark green viscous liquid.
Partly soluable in sulphuric acid.
Violently unstable when in contact with organic substances.
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Ezekiel

'Things bad begun make strong themselves by ill'



the freshmaker
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From: Heaven
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posted 03-10-2001 12:17 PM
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Is manganese heptoxide explosive itself or only when in contact with organic substanses?
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You can't survive the life!



HMTD Factory
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posted 03-11-2001 01:29 AM
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The contact of Mn2O7 with organic substance will initiate the violent decomposition, then
it go by itself.


simply RED
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From: HELL
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posted 03-20-2001 03:20 PM
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I have a friend who mixed 200grams 98%H2SO4 and 200grams KMnO4(the jar was not clean...).It exploded and splitted the acid(all the shit mixture) on him, all his body was injured by the waste and the flying glass. He havan't made any explosive since then. He survived with no serious demage but the scars will not disappear...


blackadder
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From: London
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posted 03-21-2001 04:00 PM
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he sounds extremely stupid


simply RED
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posted 03-21-2001 04:07 PM
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Yes! But remmembre...The life is short, THE STUPIDITY- INFINITE!


YTS
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posted 04-01-2001 01:02 AM
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It is not magnese heptoxide he would have to added cold water to get that far its magnese sulphate but still a dodgy explosive oil still sensitive to organic material


Rhadon
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From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-02-2001 06:03 AM
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It's new to me that sulfates are explosive... a few weeks ago I read an article on this reaction and I think it was manganese heptoxide that forms during this reaction.
And ...ehm, your language is quite hard to understand.


-A-
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posted 04-03-2001 02:06 AM
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I suggest you don't mix potassium permanganate and sulfuric acid. They can react violently, like when you mix the same acid with potasium clorate.


Agent Blak
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From: Sk. Canada
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posted 04-03-2001 03:10 PM
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Last semester my chem30 teacher "flipper" did a demo in which he called the chemical battlefield. What he did was first he poured some con.H2SO4 in a graduated cycinder; then gentally pour methal spirts on top of it(The methal spirts stayed on top do to its desity). He then dropped in less than a teaspoon of KMnO4. It passed through the methal sprits with out problem but when it came in contact with the H2SO4 we started to see spaks in the liquid. It was very neat.

-Simply Red,

It sounds to me that there was some sort of organic residue on your friends beaker. If I was to ever try something of this nature I would make damm sure my glass is clean.

AXT has done some experiments with Mn2o7 and xylene. You can find a very impressive movie of this explosion in AXT signature. There is also thread that is in other explosive section.

Does anyone know if manganese heptoxide can be substituted with manganese dioxide (MnO2)? Or are the other molecules important to the reaction? Or does the xylene just react with the Mn in the compound so it really would make no difference?

The xylene and manganese heptoxide react because manganese heptoxide is such a strong oxidiser. Manganese (IV) oxide is an oxidiser too, but not nearly as strong as Mn₂O₇. It probably reacts somewhat with the xylene(It might need an acid though), but not fast enough to make the nice explosion you speak of done by Axt.

It is actually quite a violent reaction mumble, a mixture of xylene and Mn2O7 will detonate by itelf within seconds. Axt placed a jar of each next to each other and then shot them with a rifle.

Originally posted by metal dragon
Does anyone know if manganese heptoxide can be substituted with manganese dioxide (MnO2)? Or are the other molecules important to the reaction? Or does the xylene just react with the Mn in the compound so it really would make no difference?

Mn in Mn2O7 has an oxidation no. of +7, which is the highest possible oxidation no. for Mn. Hence, it can only be reduced, and therefore acts as a very strong oxidising agent. Mn in MnO2 has an o.n. of +4, which is not nearly high as in Mn2O7, so it is not such a good oxidising agent. Compare KClO4, where Cl is in the +7 o.s., due to which it is such a powerful oxidising agent.

Yes, xyz, I am quite aware of the reaction. I have watched the video several times. I'm not so sure as to why you told me that exactly. Perhaps calling MnO₂ Manganese (IV) Oxide instead of Manganese Dioxide threw you a bit. I just got used to calling it that from chemistry class.

Manganese (IV) oxide is an oxidiser too, but not nearly as strong as Mn2O7. It probably reacts somewhat with the xylene(It might need an acid though), but not fast enough to make the nice explosion you speak of done by Axt. Or did that throw you off? I realize this may not be worded the best. "It" refers to MnO₂ not Mn₂O₇. Sorry if you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

MnO2 in acidic environment would oxidize xylene to it's corresponding aldehyde, VERY slowly...

Mumble, yeah, I misunderstood you. I thought that you meant that manganese heptoxide would react slowly with xylene.

i was wondering whether it would be possible to do a solvent extraction of Mn2O7 using DCM, i was looking at the patent for DCM extraction of NA and it mentions using it to extract perchloric acid.

Mn2O7 is a rather unstable compound, so even if you could extract it, it would be quite dangerous to handle. Minor oxidisable contaminants, and *POOF*. For what purpose would you risk performing such a risky procedure?

i realise the dangers of MN2O7, i almost burnt my face off with the stuff when i put a contaminated stirring rod in to a beaker of it. anyhow i was planing to use it to make permanganic acid, or produce myself some purified MN2O7 for the FAE with xylene.

I don't understand what is it so special about xylene? Mn2O7 burns on contact with other fuels just as well, and how exactly are you, Zeocrash, going to make an your FAE? You need a lot of Mn2O7 to get anything worthwhile and I don't see how putting yourself to the greatest risk of handling that shit (not even talking about the $economy) would properly pay off. Whatever you will get, will not even be classified as an FAE.

Desmikes, I think you should take a look at the "Manganese Heptoxide / Xylene (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3142)" thread. There's nothing difficult about the "$economy", either.

The Mn2O7 does not have to be very pure for a succesful FAE. If the use for your Mn2O7 is an FAE, perhaps you should spend more time in the construction of the containers. There are lots of ideas in the above thread.

For permanganic acid, you should see the "permanganic acid (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46)" thread.

Regarding DCM, doesn't it get oxidised by Mn2O7? If not, what property of the compound renders it immune to oxidation?

Well, I experimented alot with this and I must say this: Do NOT mix this "oil" with powdered metals, mainly Al and Mg. If you are lucky, the mix will fizz and splash violently out of container. If you are unlucky, the mixture will explode and cover you with burning metal, permanganate(if any unreacted is left) and with hot acid. It is NOT funny or pleasant(although it not happened to me, I know it).
If you want to try this composition, mix it in very very small quantities and with gloves(acid and fire proof, if possible) and full face shield.
You can make very effective fire starter with this. Just pour the mix quickly on the firewood and it will catch fire in eight secs.
This material can make very effective filler for small incendiary devices, but for it's unstability... I personally don't want to carry something that unpredicable.