Those working with HP need to know how much it deteriorates with time.

This data is from a HP mfg page. It states deterioration is about 1% per year.

It also gives data on the usual type HP avaiable to experimenters.

Note that this technical grade may contain some non organic stabilizing chemicals. Nothing more is said about that.

(In my opinion is they would be trivial quantities, and apparently from its successful use for AP production, they have not shown any interference.)

The MFG data:
-------------------------------------

Technical Grade hydrogen peroxide is used in the pulp and paper industry in bleaching chemical and mechanical pulp and in waste paper recycling. In the textile industry, it is a bleach for natural and synthetic fibers and a desizing agent. It also safely detoxifies many industrial wastes,including phenolics and reduced sulfur compounds. Technical Grade hydrogen peroxide is also used in the extraction and finishing of metals.

Technical Grade hydrogen peroxide is also available in concentrations of 35% and 50% in truckload drum shipments. Less than truckload shipments of hydrogen peroxide are available from distributors.

(Small (gallons) amounts are available from local chemical supply houses. Last I bought was about $usa 10 per gallon 50%)

Physical Properties: Hydrogen peroxide is a clear, colorless, slightly viscous liquid. It is slightly denser than water but is miscible with water in all proportions. Hydrogen peroxide decomposes exothermally to water and oxygen with no toxic residues.

The decomposition is normally slow (<1%/yr) with no temperature rise but is accelerated by heat and decomposition catalysts, such as transition metals and their compounds, strong acids and strong alkalis.

Typical Analysis 35% 50% 70% Concentration in water,
Appearance Clear, colorless

Storage and Handling* Store hydrogen peroxide in the original vented container, upright, in a cool, ventilated area where it is protected from damage.

Water is the preferred method for extinguishing fires in which hydrogen peroxide is present.* Spills and leaks should be contained, diluted with copious amounts of water.

First AidIn case of product splashing into the eyes and face, treat eyes first.

Eye contact:Flush eyes immediately with water for at least 15 minutes. Call a physician.

Skin contact:Immediately flush skin with water while removing contaminated clothing andshoes. Call a physician if irritation persists.

Inhalation:Remove the victim from the contaminated area to fresh air. Call a physician incase of respiratory symptoms.

Ingestion:Consult with a physician immediately in all cases. DO NOT induce vomiting.If victim is conscious, rinse mouth and give fresh water.In case of ingestion, sit upright, drink large quantities of water to dilute the stomach contents and seek immediate medical attention.

Danger:Hydrogen Peroxide solutions are strong oxidizers and corrosive to the eyes, mucous membranes and skin.

My comment: treat HP solutions above about 15% as carefully as your would similar concentrations of nitric acid.

The 1% concentration decay per year in normal room temp storage is of particular interest.

Also, the warning to store it with the lid not air tight is worth notice. It may be able to burst plastic containers in time, and if concentrated, could start a fire as it soaked combustibles.

They DO NOT allow concentrated HP containers to be stored on wooden pallets for that very reason. Same may go for wood floors...

Be safe and avoid being astounded. A HP fire may accellerate like a gunpowder contaminated floor, giving NO time to fight it, while small. I store gallon HP jugs in a 5 gallon plastic bucket outer containment vessel which has a non gasketed lid.

Go forth and make a joyous noise...

Further notes on HP

I checked a gallon of 50% stored 4 years and it was still heavy as hell meaning it has not lost much strength.

I don't have the sp gr figures, but sp gr would be a good way to judge the concentration of the stuff, and especially the concentration decrease over prolonged storage at room temp. If anybody finds sp gr versus concentration data please post it.

That will make a world of difference in conserving chemicals when making AP with unknown concentrations.

At the url (down below) you will find a very informative FAQ on hydrogen peroxide.

Of particular note to us is that it can be concentrated by freezing, up to 30% rather easily and up to 62% as the limit, WITHOUT DANGER.
Boiling is risky, see below.


This faq is very informative and a must read for AP tinkerers.

<a href="http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp/FAQs/FAQ.html" target="_blank">http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp/FAQs/FAQ.html</a>

It contains links to people who have had accidents with HP, etc.

Roughly, as you get past about 30% in concentrating it by anything but freezing, it gets dangerous for tinkerers.

Basicly when freezing lower concentrations of HP, it's the water that freezes and leaves concentrated HP as a liquid.

In boiling (not recommended for strong solutions) it's the HP that remains and the water that boils off. It can run away when the conc gets above about 50% or so (my estimate, don't bet on that) if there is any contamination at all, or if the heat added by HP decomposing causes uncontrollable (in the time available) temp rise. This can spray HP around the room or explode.

( I expect if temp was being watched when it started to ramp up there MAY be time to drown it in cold water as one does NG that turns yellow during making. Haven't got experience on runaway hot conc HP so can only give my speculations. Wisely suit up if you try it.)

IF you are going to play with HP do get the FAQ on your computer and consult it before doing anything with it. Read it at least once a year to restore your respect for it.

Remember some mistakes can happen in a tenth of a second or so. Others not so drastic can cause you to cream yourself running into stuff in an unplanned speedy exit.

Don't mix stuff with concentrated HP without consultation. Most things mixed with it go badly (dents in armor and/or scorched spots).

Making a fog of it in a room can cause lethal (delayed) lung damage before you can exit, IF YOU DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH. Its harm is not apparent for several minutes on the skin or inhaled or ingested.

Only some mixtures with it are peaceful. Many pretend peace, but later, when you ain't looking they do their thing, like chlorate phosphorus mixtures.

Kinda like having a pet adult boa constrictor. It may grow so fond of you that one day the idea comes that "dang I like you so much I could just eat you", and in keeping with its single track mind, it promptly does.

Later it will probably form another idea "dang I miss him".
Gonna have to find me another friend. That one didn't last hardly at all.

If those, who have stories to tell how HP abused them, will post here they will be enjoyed by all.

I once got some 40 volume peroxide hair bleach on a finger. Didn't hurt or anything...at first. I rinsed it off and, after about an hour, it turned white as snow with the skin peeling off. And it BURNED like a mutha' for a few days afterwards, like a bad sunburn.

I wonder what the LD₅₀ for peroxide mist would be in mg/L? Enough to be a useful, and undetectable, psuedo-CW? Being only hydrogen and oxygen, it'd be undetectable by any standard CW detector.

After reading the FAQ and links, it seems it wouldn't be too useful for inhalational injury, but could cause blindness. That might be good enough as is.

<small>[ January 20, 2003, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

how can I neutralize h2o2? if someone I know happens to fall in a tub of it, and I want to keep them alive. :rolleyes:

Depends on how concentrated it is...
1) They fall in a tub of relatively (3-10%) weak H2O2.
-Get out quickly and wash with lots of H2O.
2) They fall in a tub of something higher in concentration...ie: 30%.
-Get them out faster than a crackhead racing for some rock and dump them in a lake.

I really don't think there is going to be much hope of 'neutralizing' it as it is not acidity or basicity you should be concerned about. The best bet is getting it off the person as fast as possible and making sure they don't go blind.
If you wanted to 'neutralize' (better way of saying this would be break down) it you'd probably want to use a lot of the enzyme catalase (which you won't have around). This stuff has a catalytic efficency near the diffusion limit...about 40,000,000 molecules of H2O2 broken down per molecule of catalase per second.
Bottomline...don't fall in! :-)

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Al Koholic ]</small>

It's an oxidiser, not an acid or base, so you can't "neutralise" it, like you would if you spilt HNO3 or NaOH solution on yourself.

The immediate thing to do would be to flush the affected area with copious amounts of water to dilute and wash away the H2O2.

If you fell into a tub of it then you'd have to jump in the shower in a pool or pond if available. Then prepare for either a very painful death, or a painful period without skin, depending on the concentration of the H2O2.

You might also ask yourself why you had an entire vat of conc H2O2, when you lacked the IQ to avoid falling into it :rolleyes:

If you really need to you can decompose H2O2. It can be done with the enzyme catalase, it's realy not hard to come by, abundant sources are liver, and to a lesser degree, potato. So if you are completely incapable it would be worth keeping handy an amount of mashed raw potato or liver, diluted in enough water to make it liquid. Another catalyst for this decomposition of H2O2 is manganese dioxide (the black powder in batteries is a mix of this and carbon)

Yeah I mentioned catalase above but neglected to mention the sources for it. The reason I didn't is because to get enough catalase out of livers in a relatively concentrated form, you would need a hell of a lot of livers to make a solution which would be useful if you fell into a bath of 30% H2O2....a HELL of a lot of livers. Ideally you would want to be able to shower in the solution of water and catalase (and whatever other enzymes liquified liver might contain) so that you get all the H2O2 off ASAP.

A few buckets of liquid mashed potatos or liver probably won't cut it for as large scale an accident as was mentioned above.

Silly boys!

Don't you know that when someone falls into a vat of chemicals, that they always transform into a supervillian, like The Joker? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

We could call Zach "TAPman"! :D

Oh I know NBK...I know because I have BECOME a supervillian through this exact method! That's why Im telling everyone these "preventative/curative" measures so that there are less super villians around...the fewer the better for me!

Mwa HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA

You mentioned yourself how efficient catalase was, simply wetting all affected areas of skin with a liver solution would instantly decompose any remaining H2O2 on the skin, however the problem is the H2O2 would have already caused a lot of damage, and it seems to soak into the skin as well. Either way the best bet would probably be to avoid bathing in concentrated hydrogen peroxide.

Fuck you guys, while your dabbing yourselves with sliced spuds I'll be running for the neighbour's koi pond!

Instantly would be nice but I fear that the concentration of catalase in any kind of non-purified liver extract would be fairly low...although I could be wrong. You're right though...arguing over it is pretty pointless as not falling in would be the best bet...

I never said I would be bathing in H202. I said somone I know might. :) Maybe someone who isnt spilling his guts fast enough.

<small>[ January 22, 2003, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Zach ]</small>