zaibatsu
October 13th, 2002, 09:38 AM
Energy84
Frequent Poster
Posts: 82
From: Earth
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 08, 2001 10:56 PM
Does anybody know the approximate shelf life of muriatic acid? I'm making my first batch of AP right now but I don't know if my HCl is any good. It's gotta be at least 10 years old and there's only about 400 Ml left in the bottle...
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why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 11:30 PM
well, you can risk it and try and make AP with it. the acid is only a catalyst, it provides nothing to the completed AP... BUT! impurities that have built up in the 10 year old + HCl(a) bottle are hazerdous. i would suggest, (in my fully liscensed capacity, being a lisenced pyrotechnician/demolitions expert ) i would say, go get some new HCl
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...�
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 11:48 PM
Open the bottle, fan over the top toward your nose, lightly. You'll know if it's good by the horrible smell and the near burning sensation. That's the quick test any hows, but not the smartest.
Or you could poor some into a glass container and add a small ball of Al foil. It should react violently once the rxn gets going. Do this outside though, the rxn yieds hydrogen gas.
HCl will leave and aquaeous solution, I'm not sure though how much will though over any amount of time. I'm sure theres a point where almost none will leave. But like Crag Hack said, "somethings" probably formed in there.
Energy84
Frequent Poster
Posts: 82
From: Earth
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 09, 2001 12:02 AM
Shit, too late. I already made my batch... Oh well, I think it's still good. I had some baking soda with me so I used that to neutralise the acid when cleaning. And I'm pretty damn sure it's still good. As soon as it came into contact with th baking soda, it started fizzing really rapidly, kinda scared me at first 'cause I've never done this before. Then I put the jar into a bucket of water (to clean it) and I saw a quick shot of smoke kinda shoot up then drown out under the water! what was that???
Also, will a really cold temp (1 to 4 degrees C) slow the reaction down much? I hope it won't... I can't put it in the fridge (too full/parents would notice) so I filled a cooler with snow, put an ice cream pail in the middle, filled the pail with ice, water and put my jar in the middle. It'll have to keep itself cool for about 18 hours 'cause my parents would get kinda suspicious if I took off in the morning downstairs to look inside a cooler... oh well, hope it works.
Thanks guys
------------------
why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 09, 2001 12:07 AM
HCl + aluminum foil = hydrogen?...so when i make pop bottle bombs when im in a shortage of explosive and they explode and leave a big cloud of white gasses, this is hydrogen?..i thought hydrogen was clear
NightStalker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 116
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:58 AM
As this raction is exothermic (creating heat) you get a lot of HCL gases which are damned bad if you breathe them...
------------------
Death stalks silently....
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 09, 2001 11:10 AM
Hydrogen is clear, I think it's the HCl mist that's white.
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:25 AM
My hydrogen gas is not clear, it's kind of misty/white.
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:02 PM
Then obviously you don't have JUST hydrogen.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 12:42 AM
the safest way to test if your hcl is good is to get a half filled bottle of ammonia and squese it periodicly so the ammonia fumes mix with the hcl vapors and make dense white fumes, it is also a good idea to leave some ammonia out when working with hcl so you can tell how big the vapor clouds are
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 17, 2001 10:33 AM
3HCl (aqueous) + Al ---> AlCl3 + 3/2 H2
but!!!
AlCl3 + 3H2O --> Al(OH)3 + 3HCl
So in summary: HCl is recycled as a gas because the reaction are very exothermic; the bottle exploding liberates HCl that hydratates upon contact with air making white clouds; H2 when burning in the air produces H2O that condense also as white clouds.....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Frequent Poster
Posts: 82
From: Earth
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 08, 2001 10:56 PM
Does anybody know the approximate shelf life of muriatic acid? I'm making my first batch of AP right now but I don't know if my HCl is any good. It's gotta be at least 10 years old and there's only about 400 Ml left in the bottle...
------------------
why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 11:30 PM
well, you can risk it and try and make AP with it. the acid is only a catalyst, it provides nothing to the completed AP... BUT! impurities that have built up in the 10 year old + HCl(a) bottle are hazerdous. i would suggest, (in my fully liscensed capacity, being a lisenced pyrotechnician/demolitions expert ) i would say, go get some new HCl
------------------
...�
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 08, 2001 11:48 PM
Open the bottle, fan over the top toward your nose, lightly. You'll know if it's good by the horrible smell and the near burning sensation. That's the quick test any hows, but not the smartest.
Or you could poor some into a glass container and add a small ball of Al foil. It should react violently once the rxn gets going. Do this outside though, the rxn yieds hydrogen gas.
HCl will leave and aquaeous solution, I'm not sure though how much will though over any amount of time. I'm sure theres a point where almost none will leave. But like Crag Hack said, "somethings" probably formed in there.
Energy84
Frequent Poster
Posts: 82
From: Earth
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 09, 2001 12:02 AM
Shit, too late. I already made my batch... Oh well, I think it's still good. I had some baking soda with me so I used that to neutralise the acid when cleaning. And I'm pretty damn sure it's still good. As soon as it came into contact with th baking soda, it started fizzing really rapidly, kinda scared me at first 'cause I've never done this before. Then I put the jar into a bucket of water (to clean it) and I saw a quick shot of smoke kinda shoot up then drown out under the water! what was that???
Also, will a really cold temp (1 to 4 degrees C) slow the reaction down much? I hope it won't... I can't put it in the fridge (too full/parents would notice) so I filled a cooler with snow, put an ice cream pail in the middle, filled the pail with ice, water and put my jar in the middle. It'll have to keep itself cool for about 18 hours 'cause my parents would get kinda suspicious if I took off in the morning downstairs to look inside a cooler... oh well, hope it works.
Thanks guys
------------------
why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted January 09, 2001 12:07 AM
HCl + aluminum foil = hydrogen?...so when i make pop bottle bombs when im in a shortage of explosive and they explode and leave a big cloud of white gasses, this is hydrogen?..i thought hydrogen was clear
NightStalker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 116
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 09, 2001 05:58 AM
As this raction is exothermic (creating heat) you get a lot of HCL gases which are damned bad if you breathe them...
------------------
Death stalks silently....
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 09, 2001 11:10 AM
Hydrogen is clear, I think it's the HCl mist that's white.
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:25 AM
My hydrogen gas is not clear, it's kind of misty/white.
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 12, 2001 07:02 PM
Then obviously you don't have JUST hydrogen.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1466
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 13, 2001 12:42 AM
the safest way to test if your hcl is good is to get a half filled bottle of ammonia and squese it periodicly so the ammonia fumes mix with the hcl vapors and make dense white fumes, it is also a good idea to leave some ammonia out when working with hcl so you can tell how big the vapor clouds are
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted January 17, 2001 10:33 AM
3HCl (aqueous) + Al ---> AlCl3 + 3/2 H2
but!!!
AlCl3 + 3H2O --> Al(OH)3 + 3HCl
So in summary: HCl is recycled as a gas because the reaction are very exothermic; the bottle exploding liberates HCl that hydratates upon contact with air making white clouds; H2 when burning in the air produces H2O that condense also as white clouds.....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"