simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 20, 2001 01:14 PM
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The only info I've got about this explosive chemical is that is easily made by addition nitric acid to urea in aqueous sollution. The urea nitrate is precipitated. I've got also the reaction:
NH2-(C0)-NH2+HNO3=> NH2-(CO)-NH3+NO3-
the product of course is the urea nitrate.
I know it's high explosive, but i'd like to ask about:
Its sensitivity to shock, friction and initiation, its power, compatability, and all other characteristics...
If you have information about this, please HELP!

------------------
SOME PEOPLE BLOW UP BOMBS!
SOME PEOPLE BLOW BOMS...


Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 21, 2001 07:48 AM
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Nitrourea is more common. You just add urea nitrate to H2SO4. That's all I can remember about the procedure.
Urea nitrate will be very insensitive, like pure AN but maybe a bit more sensitive, it'll be compatible with practically everything, and I'd expect it to be about as powerful as TNT but with a slightly lower detonation velocity.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong because that's all from memory.


wantsomfet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 21, 2001 12:04 PM
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Here's a text covering the World Trade Center Bombing. Contaims some info on ureanitrate & production etc...
<a href="http://www.aci.net/kalliste/04wtc97.htm" target="_blank">http://www.aci.net/kalliste/04wtc97.htm</a>
[This message has been edited by wantsomfet (edited January 21, 2001).]


simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 23, 2001 05:38 PM
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THANKS!!!
That was really COOL, but the only things that remained unrevealed are the sensitivity of the explosive (to initiation) and the critical diameter of it....


wantsomfet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 09:52 AM
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In the FEMFEP (Field Expedient Methods for Explosives Preparation) is described how to manufacture nitrourea from ureanitrate:
"Preparation of Nitrourea

Nine (9.0) grams of the above product, urea nitrate, was added portionwise
to 32 ml of ice cold (-3 centigrades) concentrated sulfuric acid at such a
rate that the temperature did not exceed 5 centigrades. Total time for
addition was approximately one-half hour, after which the mixture was
poured on 75 grams of ice. The white precipitate was filtered, washed with
ice cold water, just sufficient to cover it, and air dried. Material
obtained weighed 5.3 grams and melted with decomposition at 157-158 centi-
grades. (lit. 158-159 centigrades). "


simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted January 25, 2001 04:15 PM
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Do you heve some more info on nitrourea, because i really don't know anything about it's use as an explosive


wantsomfet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted January 25, 2001 05:42 PM
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Seems that not much info is available about this stuff
UN number is 0147 / CAS Nr. 556-89-8

Seems to be shock sensitive, but no specific info: <a href="http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/shockers.html" target="_blank">http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/shockers.html</a>

Here is a MSDS: <a href="http://siri.uvm.edu/msds/mf/cyanamid/files/296" target="_blank">http://siri.uvm.edu/msds/mf/cyanamid/files/296</a>
The page has some more general info: <a href="http://www.safety.utoledo.edu/safety/explos.htm" target="_blank">http://www.safety.utoledo.edu/safety/explos.htm</a>

This one is swedish... <a href="http://www.algonet.se/~bglind/anders/svtb/108.txt" target="_blank">http://www.algonet.se/~bglind/anders/svtb/108.txt</a>

I remember someone (I think it might have been mr evil?) once saying that urea carbonate was also explosive but I have found no information whatsoever on this compound. Does anyone have any information regarding this compound like sensitivity, VoD, etc.

I assume that it would be made from urea and carbonic acid which brings up interesting possibilities. I once witnessed a demonstration by my science teacher of how carbonic acid can be formed from the CO2 in the air that people breathe out, he had a beaker full of water with some universal indicator added and he blew bubbles in it with a straw, it turned acidic after 30 seconds or so.

If you knew the Ph of the highest concentration of carbonic acid that you could get in this way then you could blow bubbles in a beaker of water until you reached the right Ph, then add the appropriate amount of urea (which can be bought cheaply from garden supply shops, the nursery near me sells 2.5kg bags of it) to form urea carbonate (you could probably only form small amount though as carbonic acid is a weak acid and you don't get much.

A lot of hydroxides becomes carbonates on exposure to the air, so I don't see why urea solutions would be much different if sone right. If indeed urea does react with carbonic acid then one could move the reaction along by constantly bubbling air into a concentrated urea solution. With a bit of time and an aquarium pump with aerater stone you could probably get this done. Hell, add in the fish tank and that's your setup right there.

Oh, man! That would take forever!

Just use dry ice, buy it at the local grocery store. Formation of carbonic acid is an equilibrium reaction, so bitch slap the equilibrium far to the right by flooding the system with CO2. Not all the dry ice will dissolve. But as the carbonic acid is neutralized with urea, and the H2CO3 content thus drops, more dry ice will react due to the equilibrium.

If you just have to use gaseous CO2, don't blow into it that will take ages, go buy a couple cheap CO2 cartridges for pellet guns or a CO2 tank for a paintball gun.

PrimoPyro

Regarding the WTC bomb '93 I found a link that I hope interests you:
<a href="http://www.interpol.int/Public/Publications/ICPR/ICPR469_3.asp" target="_blank">http://www.interpol.int/Public/Publications/ICPR/ICPR469_3.asp</a>
I found it when I was researching for a special project about WTC.
EDIT spelling

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: TheBear ]</small>

I would still like to know if anyone has any information regarding urea carbonate.

The thought urea carbonate is explosive seems to belong to mega's page, in which guanidine carbonate is stated to be explosive. From what Ive read, I think this is ultimatly attributable to Davis, in which its prepared from nitroguanidine. Davis does not state it is explosive, just that this is a very good way to prepare the pure compound.

Guanidine carbonate is not explosive, the reason its in Davis is essentially becuase Davis was a professor of organic chemistry having done a lot of work in the field of substituted guanidine chemistry.

Guanidine is a very strong mono base, which is why it forms a stable carbonate, urea is a rather weak base, so I would not expect it to form a carbonate. Urea itself is made from autoclaving carbon dioxide and ammonia, if this resulted in an explosive mixture it couldnt be prepared this way.