Sgt.Starr
A new voice
Posts: 31
From: USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted November 13, 2000 11:59 AM
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Im new here I think you all know (new the to concept of explosives and chem period) do you think If i made some nitrostarch from megalos reciepe would be smart as a first try at plastic exlposives? Im looking at the sensitivity rate,Please fill me in
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Bitter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 290
From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 13, 2000 01:06 PM
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Try black powder or acetone peroxide to begin with and work your way up from there.
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'Guns will make us greedy. Butter will only make us fat.'


Sgt.Starr
A new voice
Posts: 31
From: USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted November 13, 2000 01:21 PM
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Hey thanks,I need somone to teach me all these symbols lol Ive been reading the hole forum and I hear all this stuff like AP and stuff and Im totally clueless lol I think my first High explosive attemp will be RDX after I work my way up
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"Am I dead
yet?"::BOOM::
nevermind!


PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 15, 2000 05:32 AM
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RDX has nothing trivial to make as compare to AP,TNT or TNP since it can easily run away, for sure your yields will be poor if you don't have access to the right INGREDIENTS at the right CONCENTRATION and reaction TEMP!!!!
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"


megalomania
Administrator
Posts: 646
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 17, 2000 01:45 PM
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In general, high explosives are very stable, the chance of you having an accident during their synthesis is diminished. You will not need to worry about excessive safety percautions (just standard laboratory safety), so you can concentrate on the chemistry. The unstable primary explosives must be prepared with care, and skill, to avoid an accident.
Acetone peroxide (AP) may be easy to make, but it's not all that useful, and can be most dangerous if you have no idea what you are doing.
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For the most comprehensive and informative web site on explosives and related topics, go to Megalomania's Explosives and Stuff at <a href="http://surf.to/megalomania" target="_blank">http://surf.to/megalomania</a>


Sgt.Starr
A new voice
Posts: 31
From: USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted November 17, 2000 04:54 PM
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Since the first person on this forum told me to start with AP and I first saw it on your site megalo Ive been drawn farther and farther away from it because of what Ive heard about it being unstabble(I live in a 3 bedroom double wide in a crowded nabor hood so AP would be too dangereos in my point of view) I usually set fire works off in the woods,theres a clearing about 10 acres large that kids call the track because of dirt bikers and thats where I do my fireworks(because most of the rednecks around here shoot there guns off there ) So Im going to try my hand and black powder and fuses while I learn chemistry for about the next year and half....sound smart to you megalo?
Thanks for the advice guys

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"Am I dead
yet?"::BOOM::
nevermind!


blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 30, 2000 09:14 AM
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you could also try sodium chlorate (found in many weedkillers)
sodium chlorate is an oxidizing agent, meaning that when burned with something it will give a big constant supply of oxygen, producing a very fierce flame and lots of gases

mix sodium chlorate with sugar, at 3 parts sodium chlorate and 1 part sugar. Its the first low explosive i tried when i didn't have access to B.P. (black powder) and AP (Acetone peroxide).


sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted December 30, 2000 08:54 PM
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if the weed killer is not 100% sodium chlorite do you still need to mix it 3 to 1 and how do you detonate it? also could you put it around CO2 canisters to detonate it? or put it inside a CO2 canistor for a more powerfull crator maker and does the weed killer com as a liquid or solid
[This message has been edited by sealsix6 (edited December 30, 2000).]


Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 534
From: Somewhere on this earth....
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 30, 2000 09:26 PM
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Nein, the best SC - Sugar mis is 2-1 (by weight) as it leaves the least residue behind.
Although all will leave salt behind as when the Sodium Chlorate is burnt and it releases its oxygen your left with Sodium Chloride, salt.

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MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 31, 2000 03:20 AM
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Does anyone out there have a weedkiller brandname/product name to look for?.Can't find it anywhere in my area.BTW,I live in the U.S.A.
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Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 11:26 AM
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I don't think it's available in the US, here in the UK it's labelled as "sodium chlorate weedkiller" regardless of brand, bit of a give away huh?


blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 31, 2000 02:27 PM
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SHIT FUCK MOTHERFUCKER
Damnit! I just typed a whole load of shit about NaClo3 and now I have to type it again because of my gay fucking computer. Mother fucker. Anyway, might as well start typing....

NaClo3

NaCl03 crystals usually look pretty much like salt crystals. They obviously come in solid form. NaClo3 is quite hydroscopic, meaning that it tends to absorb moisture from the surrounding air, which can prove to be a problem. The crystals are in a quite coarse form, so you will have to grind them up into a finer powder. The finer the better, needless to say. For detonation, the stuff can be burned with a lit fuse, but a detonator would be better (made from AP in a thin long tube). The crystals come in 51-55% concentration, and I used the 3:1 ratio, as the Naclo3 was pretty impure. In higher concentrations, the NaClo3 could be used in other ratios, but I haven't tried them. I believe the NaClo3 and Sugar need to be pretty thoroughly mixed to make a good explosive. Just one question here, when you detonate the NaClo3, does it need to be in the NaClo3/sugar form or just on its own?


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 07:33 PM
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NaCLO3 is like AN, it can be detonated alone but is very difficult, a "fuel" is added to act as a sensitizer. Hopefully tomorrow I'll find out how easy it is to detonate NaCLO3 and vaseline in 9:1.


blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 31, 2000 07:41 PM
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Anthony! Before you detonate it, take a couple pics of the finished bomb/explosives so people can see what it's like. Also have a go at trying taking a pic of the mixture while in detonation. We haven't had any pics of this type yet, so it would be good if you could take a couple snaps. Please!


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2304
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted December 31, 2000 10:27 PM
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Already done, I'll post them tomorrow. I haven't got a video camera so I can't get an image of it actually going off


Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted January 02, 2001 10:57 AM
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The NaClO3 weedkiller I buy is mixed with fire retardant. BUT the NaClO3 crystals are ALL bigger than the retardant crystals. So I only need to sieve it to sperate all of the NaClO3 in minutes, without messy fractional crystalisation!
The manufacturers are SO stupid to make it this easy to seperate!
Nitrostarch is good if you purify it nicely, but it's not a plastic explosive. It's in whatever form your starch was at the beginning (probably little grains or powder)

Nitrocellulose is an easy to make, stable secondary explosive, but the key word is secondary. In order to make nitricellulose explode you need to detonate it with a primary explosive. According to megalomania's write up it will burn under pressure, but will not detonate unless subject to sufficient shock; correct me anyone if I'm wrong.

AP (acetone peroxide incase you don't know yet) is extreamly unstable, and therefore you SHOULD NOT try to make large amounts of it. A small amount AP or HMTD (another easy to make primary), howerever, can be used as a "blasting cap" for many secondaries, including nitrocellulose.

Another option is to make AP puddy, which is a combination of AP and nitrocellulose that can be moulded during production and detonated by conventional methods. I am not sure how stable the puddy is, but I'm assuming it is slightly more stable than AP, and less stable then nitrocellulose. I could be wrong though, in many cases compounds are as sensitive as their most unstable part, which would in this case AP.

I'm aware that your talking about nitro starch, but I personally believe that nitrocellulose is a better compound to make. It is a bit easier, and according to Sam Burrows Power Labs it burns more intensly. Apparently it also makes a good smokeless, water resistant fuse.

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they are also BOTH high explosives so detonate when initiated with a cap - kingspaz

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

AfroPyro, I don't think mega needs to hear that :D (or am I totally missing something?).

Anyway for those who are interested in making Nitrostarch: Kipe 2 (Kitchen Improvised Plastic Explosives II) is a good source. The book can be found here:
<a href="http://swi.1av10.nu/dist/" target="_blank">http://swi.1av10.nu/dist/</a>

This topic is about nitrostarch right? I'm a bit confused to be honest.

Bear, you are linking anarchy texts!
look at the bottom of you linked site...
That's all I have to say.

-FD

well whether it contains shit or not he posted it for the KIPE which IS useful.

Although this thread is about Nitrostarch there's alot of info on NaClo₃. Recently I found a brand of vegetation killer that's 39.8% NaClo₃ by weight. The brand is <a href="http://www.enforcer.com" target="_blank">Enforcer</a>, the product is named Scorcher Dry and the ingredients are as listed.

</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Prometon: 2,4-bis(isopropylamino)-6 methoxy-5-triazine 5.00% </font></li> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Simazine: 2 chloro-4, 6-bis(ethlyamino)-5-triazine .76% </font></li> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Sodium Chlorate (NaClo3) 39.80% </font></li> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Sodium Metaborate 40.00% </font></li> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Inert Ingredients 14.44% </font></li><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I will purchase it sometime in the future to see whether the granules are similar to what Mr Cool described, easy to strain apart.
Hopefully they are!

Hmm...Just thought I would say, my grandfather used to detonate NaClO3 with a strong hammerblow - He also taught chemistry in high schools, he is not dumb. ANFO has a drop test sensitivity of 2kg at 60cm. Anyone who has done physics able to speculate on the speed (and therefore momentum weight) of that weight?

Well, ignoring air resistance, it will be moving at 0.6 x 9.81 (0.6m, accelleration due to gravity 9.81ms^-2) = ~6ms^-1

Therefore the momentum = 6ms^-1 x 2kg = 12N
Its been a while since I've done physics.

I'm currently taking a physics class, so I'll take a shot at this. Forget about significant figures because the're annoying. I'll also calculate the force the weight applies to the ANFO, since that's what really counts:
m = 2 kg
h = 60 cm (0.6 m)
d(stopping distance of weight once it hits ANFO) = 0.02 cm (just a guess)
a = acceleration of the weight once it touches the ANFO and begins to slow down.
g = gravitational acceleration (~9.81m/s²)

Eg(gravitational potential energy) = mgh
= 12 joules

E_k = 0.5mV²
V₁ (velocity before it hits ANFO)= {12J/(0.5(2kg))}^1/2
= 3.43 m/s

V₂²= V₁² + 2ad
a = (V₂² - V₁²)/2d
a = -289 m/s²

F(applied to ANFO) = ma
= 2kg(289m/s²)
= 578N

I don't really know the distance the weight stopped in when it hit the ANFO, so you can't accurately figure out the force. This is a rough approximation though.

zaibatsu: When you calculated the momentum you calculated the kenetic energy (same thing I guess, but I'm not sure) (E_t= E_p+E_k), just before it hit the ANFO. It would be expressed as joules instead of newtons, but the answer is 12.