Talk:Psychopath (5e Class)

Article Issues

• Tier Levels: Levels 5 and 11 are "tier levels:" classes get their most significant power spikes at this level (i.e fighter's extra attack, wizard's gain access to 3rd / 6th level spell slots). Psychopath does not gain anything significant at 5 or 11 atm.

• Whatchu' think about it now?: Rules for doing this are very vague; needs some elaboration. "this replaces enchanting the weapon," means what, exactly? Might be best to have the weapon enhancement limit tied to class level; probably 1 at 1, 2 at 5, 3 at 11, and 4 at 17 respectively, to match the magic item rarity table in the DMG (page 135)

• I Wanna Eat Your Babies! Poorly worded. Should be worded more similarly to a dragon's Frightful Presence. It doesn't say it can only be used once before level 9; just says "You regain use of this feature after you finish a short or long rest." Flat DC for saving throw; should have a spellcasting DC style formula instead (8 + prof + ability score)

• Grisly Mask: does not say how effective the mask is. Anyone can make a mask from a dead body. "you may impersonate said person pefectly" does that mean noone can see through your disguise? or just that you're really good at acting? it's vague.

• Extra attack: Given at the wrong levels. See "Tier Levels" above.

• Boom Haha!: No mention of area of effect / saving throw.

• Bonus Feat: 6 extra feats???? That doesn't sound right.

• Will You Marrow Me? Vague wording. Is the effect automatic? No saving throw? Thematically speaking, too, having the psychopath shout something scary and then everyone falls prone with laughter seems off.

• Hurt Me Til You Love Me 'Free actions' aren't a thing.

• Ultimate Insanity Breaks the bounded accuracy rules of D&D.

• Subclasses: Not going to get into these yet, since right now the base class itself needs a lot of work still.

• Overall: A bit of a non-synergistic mess. It feels like a bunch of ideas related to psychopaths mashed together haphazardly with no thought about how these features can interact with each other.

Varkarrus (talk) 12:56, 26 December 2018 (MST)

Speaking of bonus feats, I would further like to cite the 5e Class Design Guide's stance on feats: "...never assume that a particular feat will be a part of the game. For instance, a class can't refer to a feat and feats should never be granted as class features." Quincy (talk) 13:28, 26 December 2018 (MST)

Let's be real here, there's a decent amount of potential here with this class, but there's a lot of things going off the rails here. Message me on my page if you want some of this stuff to be fixed.Glass (talk) 20:51, 13 January 2019 (MST)

Okay, fixed up some of the early level stuff, but the extra feats? As part of the class as a whole? That's just nasty to look at, I'm gonna need a few days to figure out how to fix that. The rest of it seems to be wording, specifications and balancing. Varkarrus, let me know how it looks so far. Glass (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2019 (MST)

• I definitely think the wording is improved in a lot of places, and the new names for features is great too. Still, a few of the features are brokenly powerful (especially the Bloodlust feature). I think that there's a bit of a weak core to the Psychopath; nothing that makes it distinct beyond a hodgepodge of ideas. I would actually delete most of the class's features; Mimicry Mask, Staring into the Dark Void, Friendly Fire, Ultimate Insanity, and maybe all/most of their subclass features. Instead, I would lean into their A New Toy feature more as a "core" to the class. I'm providing a couple potential improvement effects, and I suggest you flesh out that list further. I would say that each subclass could add extra improvements to the list. When choosing class features, remember that they are a class with a d8 hit die and three weapon attacks per round. Most of the damage dealt by a martial class comes from the number of attacks they make per round; see the Fighter which attacks four times per round and has almost no class features.

• As for the subclasses, make sure each one embodies not only a thematic archetype, but a mechanical one, too. Right now, all of their subclasses are REALLY strong, adding tons of bonus damage. Salt the wounds requires keeping track of salt stacks which can get annoying in combat, and Mania randomly has a revival skill? They really embody the problems I have with this class; massive bonuses and a lack of mechanical identity.

• I would suggest
  • Make Mania a "tanky" subclass. Less damage, more front-line survivability. Maybe a "taunt" skill, and an infectious zeal that brings benefits to their allies. Their improvements could include a parry improvement or a shield that increases AC.
  • Bloodlust is the "bruiser" subclass; a mix of offense and defense through lifesteal. It should be based around getting into that bloodlust state; their power should primarily come from the benefits of bloodlust, making them weak without it. They could potentially have an execute ability, a special attack that can finish off low-health targets, to make it easier to get into bloodlust, but they could ultimately be a bit weaker against single targets as a result. As potential weapon improvements, consider a hook that provides a special ranged attack to drag opponents into melee range.
  • Hellborn as the glass cannon. Let them set themselves on fire at will, and give them fire resistance, but the damage they take from being on fire should be fixed and impossible to mitigate.
  • Finally, try and give all three subclasses a utility ability on the same level (like, on level 6, or on 14). Something that provides benefits in one of the other two adventuring pillars. Varkarrus (talk) 08:36, 31 January 2019 (MST)

Quite frankly, I do see your point on Redeem the Soul. Looking over the whole class, this ability sticks out like a sore thumb. As for potential class assignments, I think you're overlooking something; they're already there.

Mania is the Glass Cannon, especially with the Salt the Wound stacks because it forces the players to think DIFFERENTLY. Instead of optimizing for a high AC, they'll risk taking up a low AC, to get hit more often. And what happens when they go up against a heavy hitter that can halve their health? It's a serious gamble in many situations. Some more tweaks for the future, perhaps.

Bloodlust is the Bruiser class, you're correct, and there's definitely some difficulty in actually GETTING to that bloodlust stage. Lot of life steal potential though, and I'm thinking about replacing Bloodsplosion entirely with an execution maneuver.

Hellborne is, quite surprisingly, the tankiest of the three trees. Sure, some of the skills should probably be rearranged to reflect that, but when everything is said and done you're essentially only taking damage that you've inflicted upon yourself, and that damage is immediately healed by the excessive amounts of fire damage you're dealing.

Yes, I do see how these subclasses can get too strong in combat, and lack everywhere else, and certainly some changes will have to be made. However, I don't think I'll need to start entirely from scratch like you're suggesting, Varkarrus. Glass (talk) 21:34, 11 February 2019 (MST)

Hi my name is Conor Fletcher I've taken your class and made some large changes so it could be used in a campaign I'm going to be a dm for. I'd like you to contact me at [e-mail] so I can share the google docs with my changed version. I think it is a lot more well balanced while keeping to the psychopath theme you've been going for. Thank you :) Edit: I've made a profile, feel free to talk with me. I'll be making a new page with this class and credit you. Thank you