Talk:Magi (5e Class)

Balance and Clarity Issues?

Hey there! I like the class a lot. It is a very cool concept. However, it gets several benefits that make it very unbalanced.

For example, it has practically all the core features of a warlock and a monk, as well as several of that of a wizard. It literally has the exact feature of bonus movement of the Monk with the Shundo feature, except better because it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks, plus the unarmed strikes and Flurry of Blows makes it nearly identical to a monk in the combat aspect. They have the exact same spell slot system as a warlock, and they get a variant of the Eldrich Invocations feature that is even more powerful. They even have the spellbook of a wizard and the insane number of spells that they get. In this aspect, it negates the need for several different classes in the party. It's good to have a person that can take whatever role they need. DnD 5th edition has this in the case of the Bard. However, they should never directly copy class features or be better at doing something another class is designed specifically to do while also getting even more features on top of it. Basically, by combining all of these, you have created the best spellcaster in the world that also gets a ton of abilities that allow it to dish out tons of melee damage, making it nearly impossible to beat.

The mana points are a great concept. However, since everything is a very low cost, you can deal insane amounts of damage using Arcane Blow, or never lose concentration with Controlled Spirit, or never need to rest with Flower's Fragrance. Elemental Mage is basically a modified version of the feat Elemental Adept, which is not okay. Feats are something you have to expend an ASI for, and this class can do it for free? In addition, the 20th level ability , which doesn't sound great in concept, is incredibly overpowered. Since almost everything is two mana points or less or has the option to be two mana points, it means that they can get a bunch of uses of the broken features that they would normally save.

The subclasses are very good and even balanced, in concept. However, in actuality, they are incredibly overpowered. The Practice of the Arcane Body can basically make themselves invincible by taking Combat Magician and using Melody of Battle to get insane AC bonuses, which, might I add, CAN STACK with Shield, Shield of Faith, and the like. Crushing Fist is an ability that is much too powerful for its mana point cost. And Final Trump Card can basically take a spell that should hurt them badly and instead redirects it towards the BBEG. It can even deflect spells such as Meteor Swarm, depending on how your DM reads the rules. I mean, come one, that's just way too powerful!

The Practice of Arcane Weapons is the only feature that I cannot nitpick on. It is actually pretty balanced, though I would recommend you change the damage on the Perfect Cut ability. I know it is meant to be similar to the Quivering Palm ability, but Quivering Palm itself, while it is official, is very overpowered, so I would change that as well.

Practice of the Arcane Flow is also pretty balanced, in concept. However, there is one thing that sets it apart, making it very unbalanced: the Mana Flow ability. This ability sounds balanced on paper. However, there is a reason only sorcerers get this ability. With the ability shown there, you can basically create free spell slots. This is okay for sorcerers, as they need the abilities to compensate for their lack of core class features. However, for warlocks (which this class's spellcasting is based on), this is incredibly powerful, as their spell slots level up with them. This means that they can create a massive amount of high-level spell slots at will, casting powerful spells incredibly quickly, and they can turn these spell slots into points which they can use to fuel their already game-breaking abilities. This is way too powerful for a class such as the Magi.

The other abilities are okay- I would nerf disrupting flow, as it is easily reusable and easily destroys most spellcasters, considering almost all spells have a Somatic or Verbal component. However, Crush the Flow is very powerful as well. Basically, what this ability does is deal an incredible amount of damage and block all magic for a creature for almost an entire battle. Even on a successful save, their magic is blocked for several rounds. And it doesn't even have to be a spellcaster- it can be any feature considered magical, such as the monk's Ki (or at least Ki-Empowered Strikes), the paladin's Divine Smite, or a ranger talking to their beast companion. I know this is the 17th-level ability, and it's meant to e powerful, but at 17th level this is even more broken, as the DM is going to pit you up against more and more magical creatures with some form of magical ability or spellcasting. This feature is just too broken to be even considered using.

However, I could be misunderstanding it all. This could all be an issue of me misreading this, which brings me to my next (and much less important) issue: Clarity. The page is hard to read most of the time, and sometimes even downright confusing. If you could clean it up a bit and make it more clear, that would be great.

Overall, I think it is a good concept for a class. However, it steals, combines, and increases the power drastically several other class's abilities, has an overpowered mana system, and two of the subclasses are incredibly game-breaking in their abilities. Also, it is hard to read in some spots and just confusing in others. I'm sorry if this sounded like a rant, but I feel like this could be very good if the features were changed and scaled down in power. Thank you! --MarshDASavage (talk) 18:11, 30 November 2020 (MST)

Edit: I have started to work on fixing this class's abilities. I am leaving the Needs Balancing template up for now, but keep in mind that I will be trying my best to fix the abilities of this class. --MarshDASavage (talk) 15:52, 9 December 2020 (MST)

Comment: So I started using this class a long time ago, like about a year ago, and I fairly enjoyed it, I'm still using it but I found that several of the feats are gone, like Shundo. I liked the older version better, please change it back or at the very least post the 1st version and call this version 2, --User:Lowrider93 11:42, 17 January 2021 (PT)

You can find the older version of the page in the History tab. If the page has been changed from its previous state, it is generally assumed that the changes are an improvement. If they are obviously not an improvement, they are reverted. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 12:51, 17 January 2021 (MST)

gollark: Of course, you might dispute that it'll actually save lives or something, but factual issues can be debated more sanely than the usual political thing where you just fight to connect your opponent with disliked things.

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gollark: What?

gollark: Exactly, ban those.

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