Talk:Dragon Troll (5e Race)
Balance
This race still feels heavily imbalanced.
- Breath Weapon
The breath weapon can be used MUCH more frequently with slightly lower average damage at level 1 (6.5 vs DB's 7), but scales nearly twice as fast as a dragonborn. Additionally it can be used multiple times before needing to rest, and all uses are restored on a short or long rest.
| Issue | Dragon Troll | Dragonborn |
|---|---|---|
| Uses (Level 1) | 4 | 1 |
| Uses Scaling (per level) | 1 per level | None |
| Damage (Level 1) | 1d12 | 2d6 |
| Damage Scaling (per 5 levels) | 1d12 | 1d6 |
Also as a side note, the breath weapon for the dragon troll doesn't have a DC as of yet.
- Regeneration
I'm not too familiar with damage reduction, but 11 damage at level 1 (assuming a constitution modifier of 0) is quite significant, and it increases by 5 points every 5 levels. I do like the trade off of exhaustion for damage prevention, but I'm not sure the amount feels fair, especially at lower levels.
- Claw
Although the dragon troll is not proficient with their claws, the amount of damage they are able to deal far exceeds the standard unarmed strike, and the tavern brawler feat.
- Bite
Although the dragon troll is not proficient with their bite, the amount of damage they are able to deal far exceeds most everything else at level 1. If someone has a total of just 2 when combining their strength, and dexterity modifiers, then they deal a minimum of 3 damage, which is more than a greatsword, and on the top end they can tie it's damage. Also the average damage for that bite would be 7.5 vs the greatsword's average damage of 7. That's only with a Dexterity and Strength modifiers totaling 2.
- Conclusion
Each of the of these issues on their could call for tweaks. However, altogether it is much too powerful. Coaldstone (talk) 23:25, 8 February 2020 (MST)
- The recent changes made have been a positive move, but, I think there are still some issues.
- Bite
- As proficiency with natural weapons is now a part of the race, they are directly comparable to all weapons. This makes the bite attack overtly too powerful. The modifiers should be dropped because one will be added anyways as per damage rolls. If the theme of Strength and Dexterity wants to be maintained it could be a finesse weapon. As it stands, it outclasses most weapons at level 1. With modifiers totaling of 2, it deals 3-10 damage for an average of 6.5 damage. This ties greataxes and lances, is 0.5 damage shy of greatswords, and deals more minimum damage than each. If it remains a d8, it should be heavily conditional, such as only being able to bite creatures that you've grappled.
- Claws
- The strength modifier should be cut as it will be added anyways as per damage rolls.
- Breath Weapon
- The breath weapon doesn't currently have a DC, and is still really strong. Being able to use it 23 times consecutively at level 20 outpaces full-blooded, ancient dragons which require a recharge. I'm not sure about the pros and cons of being able to use it multiple times and only recovering on a long rest, vs being able to be used once, and recovering on short and long rests, but i know 23 times is way too much. The damage also scales faster than a dragonborns.
Dragon Troll Dragonborn Damage Dice (level 1) 1d10 2d6 Average Damage (level 1) 5.5 7 Damage Dice (level 6) 2d10 3d6 Average Damage (level 6) 11 10.5 Damage Dice (level 11) 3d10 4d6 Average Damage (level 11) 16.5 14 Damage Dice (level 15) 4d10 5d6 Average Damage (level 15) 22 17.5
- It seems to me that copying the dragonborns breath weapon would easier than trying to balance number of uses, damage scaling, and determining when spent uses are recovered. It might be less flashy than what's before but having charges would seem to require a lot of play testing to get right. Coaldstone (talk) 03:03, 10 February 2020 (MST)