Talk:Color Bearer (4e Class)

First of all, I think this is a cool concept, and it is well written. I can see a few mechanics that might not be balanced, but it's subtle and I might need to do a bit of research to suggest alternatives. For example, damage and to-hit/defense scale differently, so it might not be appropriate to use the same die rolls for the bonuses on Banner Preservation. Here are some immediate suggestions:

• +1 to AC: Whilst, rarely, classes can have an AC bonus (Swordmage, for example), it should be conditional and given context, and therefore presented as a class feature rather than in this Defense section.
• Flying Colors: The attack/damage bonuses should be restricted to attacks made with Color Bearer powers, or be restricted to certain types of weapon. I haven't seen class feature attack/damage bonuses this high outside of striker classes. The skill bonuses are also very high.
• 6 hp per level is high for a Leader.
• You might consider some way for the Color Bearer to trigger ally healing surges, which is a standard ability of Leaders. But perhaps that's not essential since they are buffing in other ways. Maybe temporary hit points could be worked in instead.
• I'll look into this further later. Now on to the powers. Marasmusine (talk) 10:52, 18 July 2012 (MDT)

I've done some changes as per your suggestions. I may make Flag Waving do the ally healing surges, maybe, but I didn't think about doing that, because, well, dem buffs. Temp HP may work instead. --Elendra (talk) 11:52, 18 July 2012 (MDT)

In further response...

• Removed the +1 to AC
• Reduced the bonus, restricted to Spears and Staffs ( weapons that I've deemed 'Flag' worthy ).
• Reduced the skill check bonuses.
• Reduced to 5 hp per level, although I'm still tempted to go 6. Current powers have a tendency to get this class hurt.

--Elendra (talk) 12:09, 18 July 2012 (MDT)

5 hp, chainmail & light shield makes this about the same as the Bard for defense (I'd make their base defenses +1 Fort, +1 Will); although the bard can heal herself. The Blue standard bearer is much tougher though with an additional +1 to Fort, Will, Reflex, AC. Marasmusine (talk) 13:00, 18 July 2012 (MDT)

Sounds like a good suggestion for the +1 Fort! Have you looked at the powers yet, and if yes, what do you think? I just looked at the page and it doesn't seem to have a talk thing yet. And yes, I know they're supposed to all have their own page, but while I'm making them, doing it as I am now seems much easier while things are in flux. --Elendra (talk) 13:26, 18 July 2012 (MDT)

I really like this idea for a class and to me it is also very interesting. I agree with Mara though, there should be some way for your allies to spend healing surges and the bonuses that the flag waving can provide may be a little bit much. Maybe instead of making flag waving an at-will, make it a special encounter power which has limited uses and then make it allow people to use a heal surge with the additional benefits of flag waving added on. Really like this idea though and it is very well written. TechyKat (talk) 20:44, 29 July 2012 (MDT)

I've spotted one potential problem. Every D&D class is designed so that all their class features work independently of equipment: Wizards can still cast spells without their implements; Fighters can still Combat Challenge; Any class can pick up and use an improvised weapon to use with their weapon attack powers; and so on. It would seem that a Color Bearer is not capable of anything if they do not have a staff or a spear with their flag attached. Marasmusine (talk) 09:27, 11 February 2013 (MST)

One possible solution could be to have the Color Bearer's powers channeled only through the flag and not require a pole of some sorts to place it on, but if you do place it on a staff of spear then the weapon enhancement bonuses apply. In addition to that, the flag can be a magic summon of sorts by adding a Minor At-Will or Encounter power that can summon the flag, or make it a basic flag and pole combination that can only used as an implement and not a weapon. This is one possibility I thought of but it may not be a great solution.--AlastorSheeld (talk) 11:53, 11 February 2013 (MST)

That's probably the way to go, have the flag itself an item that the bearer can never be parted from and remove the requirement for having the implement (per spells and prayers).

On another note, these are all the (non-homebrew) military spears: Lance, Trident, Longspear and Pike. (The javelin, spear, shortspear are the simple spears but presumably you'll want a military weapon). Is this broad enough? Lance and Trident are one-handed, so one could have either a shield or short-sword in the off-hand; maybe there could be a feat or feature that supports a short-sword-off-hand build. Marasmusine (talk) 15:35, 11 February 2013 (MST)

Why don't we give them Simple Melee, Simple Ranged, and Military Melee and just give them a power that conjures up the flag?