Talk:Brewmaster (5e Class)

52.87.254.252 Why did you remove the shield clause from the Unarmoured Defense feature? VorpalMedia (talk)

Drunken Feats and Levels

[Fixed?] The character receives the options to select a new feat at levels 2, 5, 7, 9, 12, 15, 28. But several feats have selections that are incompatible with this. For mean drunk, it can be selected at the 11th and 17th levels, but there are no new feats available then and feats cannot be exchanged. Recuperating coma requires 6+, but there is no new feat available then. Same issue with unpredictable movements requiring 8+. The fix: After consulting with a couple buddy's the overall opinion was that this ability should slide rather than stack. "Mean Drunk can be taken again at 5th (2d6), 11th (3d6), and 17th level (4d6)" was changed to "Mean Drunk's ability is increased by 1d6 at the 5th (giving 2d6), 11th (3d6), and 17th (4d6)levels." For Chase & Unpredictable this was rounded down to 7th, while for Coma the requirement was rounded down to 5.

Please feel free to fix these issues. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 06:32, 7 March 2019 (MST)

Brewmasters stout

How exactly does brewmasters stout work? I can't seem to make heads or tails of it. Do you make servings equal to wis mod + level and all of them have all of the effects or is it different to that?

Cheers in advance.

--Each use bestows all selected effects but you can only drink/serve it up to your Wisdom Modifier plus your Brewmaster level times per day. VorpalMedia (talk)

Could you clarify the stout rule, "Your keg holds 50 servings but only the first 2 given servings are magical." Does this mean that you only get 2 magical brews per day to drink and serve? Or are only the first 2 that you give to others magical?

Thanks

To ask follow-ups to the above, what makes the character drunk? One section says to drink a gallon of ale or pitcher of wine per level, while "Where'd you go?" says the brewmaster is hammered after any amount above that.

For lack of a better word, this page is in severe need of rework. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 06:32, 7 March 2019 (MST)

Feedback

1. There's a few dead levels. Now looking at 1st level:
2. Many features are related to drunkeness, but there are no rules for drunkeness: it's under DM adjudication. There shouldn't be mechanically rules based on DM adjudication.
3. Drink Slammer is pointless, as object interactions don't normally provoke opportunity attacks. Also unclear why you would want to drink alchohol as a bonus action, or what quantity you can drink with this feature.
4. Drunken Boxing emphasises Dexterity? Is this just a holdover from copying the Martial Arts feature that was forgotten to be removed? (The quick buick build says Constitution and Wisdom are the important scores) Marasmusine (talk) 08:52, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Looking further, I see the feature spread isn't good. You've got the aforementioned dead levels, but also multiple features bunched up where you should only have one (each ability score improvement, and extra attack at 5th, for example) Marasmusine (talk) 07:01, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Most of these problems stem from the fact it's my first attempt at converting a 3.5 class. Any help would be appreciated. VorpalMedia (talk) 15:02, 9 May 2017 (BST)

I'll have a go at improving it. Marasmusine (talk) 14:44, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

• Changed saves to Con and Cha, per tradition of having one common and one uncommon save.
• Changed drunken boxing to better distinguish it from monk's martial arts: defined brawling weapons as being non-light, non-finesse simple weapons. In most cases this will cover improvised weapons too (PHB p. 147). I dropped the bonus attack but increased the damage, and made strikes based on Constutition (instead of Dex or Str).
• Defined how to become drunk. Marasmusine (talk) 15:13, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

I went through and tweaked got a few things. My concern right now is between "Brewmaster's Stout" & "Drunk Feats" the brewmaster can stack quite a few benefits without any drawback. Why wouldn't the brewmaster stay drunk throughout her whole time being awake? I think to bring balance, some of the Drunk Feat & Brewmaster's Stout benefits will have to be curtailed or a penalty to being inebriated for too long a duration (fatigue/exhaustion). BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:42, 17 November 2017 (MST)

I've read through your changes and comments and agree with most of them. The only change I disagree with is the one to the Where'd You Go? feature. The idea of it in the 3.5 version and how I tried to translate it is that the brewmaster ends up in an inexpicble location, even one that they shouldn't have even been able to get to. Though that may be a bit too powerful to be that open ended, possibly a limit on how many times it can be used? There should definitely be a penalty for extended periods of drunkenness (possibly lost once you reach level 20) but I'm not confident in my abilities to create them. VorpalMedia (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2017 (GMT)

I'll work on getting that feature back to its original. I like things to be mechanically and flavorfully in sync. I've got ideas to great brewmaster passwall, passwithout trace, and expeditious retreat for 1 round which would allow some of that you mention but creating it in a flavorful way for the class was my issue. I simply omitted it and was hoping no one would speak up lol but like I said, I'll work on getting that flavor back. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 09:33, 17 November 2017 (MST)

Maybe just Misty Step instead of all those spells, just without any visual indicators. VorpalMedia (talk) 17:37, 17 November 2017 (GMT)

The problem with that spell is you need to be able to see so you wouldn't be able to get through walls. I'd love to bring it down to one spell or simple effect. Blobby may have an idea for this feature. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 10:58, 17 November 2017 (MST)

Background

I think Brewmaster should be a background, not a class. (maybe a cross between the Entertainer and Guild Artisan Backgrounds)--Redrum 17:24, 22 November 2017 (MST)

Overpowered

Just throwing this out there. I think this class needs to be scaled way back ability/feat wise. I've been playing the Brewmaster during our Curse of Straad campaign, and, at level 8, I'm already able to attack three times, while drunk, dealing 3d10 and 12d6 damage (incorporating my 4 levels of Angry Drunk). This, and I literally just noticed I've only taken 4 of the Drunk Feats out of the 8 I'm allocated at level 8, seems like a bit much as I'm able to take down most of the big bads rather quickly if I can get close enough. Has anybody else trying out this character noticed it seems overpowered, or does the OP start to tone down at higher levels or does it just get worse (I imagine it will get worse once I take the Pain Numbing, Chase the Booze, and other damage reducing feats)?

Edit 3/12/18: Really appreciate the character updates, I incorporated them all into my brewmaster during our last session and my character is way less overpowered. I still think there are some aspects that could be toned down a bit, such as the movement gains in the 'Chase the Booze' feat and the resistance to damage that's granted by the 'Pain Numbing' feat and the disadvantage granted by the 'Dumb Luck' feat. All that being said, really like the updates and I'll continue to give feedback as I play the character until the end of our Straad campaign.

A Couple of Points

Hey,

So I've been thinking of a similar idea and have a few thoughts based on my own experience as well as what is still on the page.

-- I have a problem with the requirement for being drunk and the Brewmaster's ability to overcome the negative effects thereof.

Let me explain:

Becoming drunk and the negative effects thereof are not universally defined. So you might have them defined "Well Enough" (I say that generously) for your class, but they are not universally defined which I think is important for maintaining standards between characters (because let's be honest - how likely are you to have a party of 2+ players who are all Brewmasters?).

-- Why would what is effectively a Fighting Alcoholic be dexterous? At least to me, that makes no sense.

-- Soldier Background makes very little sense, especially given you haven't really fleshed out who these Brewmasters are and how they became Brewmasters.

-- The Drunken Boxing (particularly the damage) steps too much on the toes of the Monk class. The damage (or at least the highest damage die) needs to be lower;

-- You also seem to get a lot of bonuses from Drunken Boxing at 3rd Level... Definitely needs to be toned down (at least at 3rd Level).

-- "At 4th level, while drunk, your unarmed and brawling weapon attacks count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to non-magical attacks and damage." Why? Apart from the fact that this is overpowered to say the least, why would simply "Being Drunk" allow you to gain this ability?

-- Drunk Tongue makes no sense, though I do kinda see how you would put two and two together for this class to get this ability.

-- Iron Liver is a good concept, but needs refinement so that it isn't overpowered.

-- A generic Extra Attack as well as Evasion makes very little sense for this class.

-- Dragons Breath should be less powerful (or at least do less damage) than a Dragonborn Breath weapon. Given that this class treads on the toes of other Classes (and now races), it should at least be less powerful if not completely avoided.

-- Where'd You Go? makes no sense. Why would being hammered allow the Brewmaster to cast those spells? Given that this class is not a naturally spell-casting class, how do you propose to handle those spell-casting mechanics?

-- Brewmaster Stout Effects and Drunk Feats should be combined into one, otherwise I feel it's just too much to keep track of.

-- Let's also consider some of the the Brewmaster Stout Effects and Drunk Feats: - "Ox Brew - Increases Strength to 18 for 1 minute." What if I rolled 18 on my Strength Score? Why if I - through the Ability Score Improvement Feature - improved my Strength Score to 20? The same goes of Tiger Brew, Horse Brew, etc. - "Mystery of the Drunk" makes zero sense. Why would this be a thing? - Drunk Feats like "Mean Drunk" are too powerful and make little sense. - "Dumb Luck", apart from sounding very powerful, is a little non-specific.

To be honest, I could go on for a while but apart from a supreme desire not to spent hours critiquing every aspect of this class, I also think it's important for you to be able to critique and correct your own work.

One other thing that I've noticed in your work here as well as learned during the process of working on my own content is that you need to be very careful and specific on how you word things. This is because these are supposed to be rules of your class (and thus the game). For example, you say that serving Brewmaster's Stout to anyone other than yourself makes said person extremely intoxicated, but you don't actually specify whether or not someone other than yourself who drinks Brewmaster's Stout actually benefits from Brewmaster's Stout Effects. This example is made even more confusing by the fact that the target of any given Brewmaster's Stout Effect is either listed as "The Imbiber" or not listed at all.

Food for thought. Best of luck, -- Death_knight (talk) 00:30, 5 March 2018 (MST)

A Few Thoughts

A few thoughts:

1. Treat the Brewmaster’s Stout ‘Exactly’ like a magical spell-list. Choose certain effects at certain levels, have a certain amount able to be active at one time, prepare these effects like you would with a spell book, prepare them over a long rest, and have the amount of servings you have go up per every n^(th) level.
2. I also have an issue with how most of your abilities depend on you being drunk (seeing as there is already the “Drunkard” class on this site) and the treatment of drunk feats. As for being drunk, the way to resolve its mechanics is to create them, but that is for another page. As for drunk feats, simply treat them like normal feats allowing a player to choose the ability score increase or a drunk feat at the specified levels (which will allow you to just remove drunk feats that are carbon-copies of feats already in-game).
3. I have my own insight for "Where’d You Go?". Personally, I’d revert it to the original. You move randomly (randomly meaning “up to the DM’s discretion”) 40 ft from your original position as long as no-one’s paying attention to you. This could make it a great tool for the DM to lead the party into interesting areas or predicaments while exploring.
4. My final thought runs along the viability of a port of this class from 3.5E in general. I like the idea and flavor this class brings, but many of the problems brought up are because of things directly ported from 3.5, such as dragonsbreath. Because of the many compatibility issues from porting something from 3.5 to 5, it might be better building from scratch using the 3.5 version as a base or inspiration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.160.140.241 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

I changed a few things, what do people think. Babosa (talk) 04:09, 23 October 2018 (MDT)

I like the changes. I also agree with your ideas except #3. I am personally against DM adjudication, most likely from poor DMs in the past though. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 12:38, 23 October 2018 (MDT)

The ideas above aren't mine. I agree that control should be left with the player. Babosa (talk) 18:10, 23 October 2018 (MDT)

My fault. I apologize for that. Glad we're on the same page though :D ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 20:17, 23 October 2018 (MDT)

I'm thinking that Brewmaster’s Stout is overpowered, at level 20 it has 14 effects and at least 20 uses. So should it be made it only gets one effect each level instead of two and shorten the effects duration. Babosa (talk) 23:46, 23 October 2018 (MDT)