Talk:Alchemist, Variant (3.5e Class)

Not FMA

I'm just going to say that, in light of the most recent edit, this class was not inspired by Full Metal Alchemist. I have attempted to re-make the FMA alchemist/State alchemist, but those creations can be found here; this is something separate entirely. Any questions about those classes can happen over there. -- Jota 11:41, 4 September 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 not because it seems very powerful to be able to cast 2 levels of each element per class level every day (that's actually pretty standard and similar to Psionics, where you can also cast 20 9th level spells per day-- If you do absolutely nothing else with your magic). I didn't give it a five because I'm unsure how powerful having spontaneous access to every spell of a energy type is. It sounds powerful, yes, but I'm sure there's many times when very little comes up. Good luck finding a level 9 spell of each element, let alone a force spell. I'm also distressed by the idea of having an ability to turn a creature into gold. One pound of gold is 50 GP, and aside from the huge monsters you fight in D&D, someone could even say "I go buy a cow and turn it into gold, then break it apart and sell the peices". The free money-per-week thing doesn't bother me because of how little it is, but the aformentioned ability could be disruptive. Perhaps once a week would be better for limiting it. A similar limiting should probably be used on the Mercurial Opposition ability. --Lovless510 18:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because while it is very interesting to read and has creative names for class abilities, some of their descriptions leave out information. For example, the 19th level ability, Amphoteric, sounds like a bad ability. The wording suggests that it would simply mean you only have 2xlevel spell levels total, regardless of element, although I believe it was intended to mean that you total up the number of points (for essentially 10xlevel spell levels). If this is so, it also adds to the chance of the class being overpowered. --Lovless510 18:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because as far as I can tell, it is formatted fine, although the empty sections seem unprofessional. Hardly worth mentioning, though. --Lovless510 18:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is essentially exactly what I wanted to see in an alchemist class. It doesn't seem to make use of actual, in-game alchemy like alchemists fire much, but it doesn't need to. It is a very interesting class, with clever names for abilities that reference actual elements and historical alchemy. --Lovless510 18:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I want to add, I haven't played this class yet, so my judgements on its power are purely based on theory. --Lovless510

First, thanks for taking an interest in this class and taking the time to write a real review. Now, a number of counterpoints/acknowledgements:

1. The total spell level progression is intended to be akin to an arcane caster, so yes, that is what those numbers are balanced against.
2. Spontaneous access to any elemental spell, while indeed versatile to a certain extent, is limited by pre-existing spells. When restricted solely to the PHB, there's only so much element-based spells can do for you. If, however, you were to expand your references (notably to Frostburn, the Complete Arcane, and the Complete Mage, among others) then your versatility is increased, albeit still not to the extent to a pure wizard or perhaps even a sorcerer (at least talking versatility, due to the spells you can never select that have no elemental counterpart). Power wise, elemental spells are mostly (emphasis here) just damage and don't compare to the likes of color spray, glitterdust, fly, polymorph, and other magical staples, though again, expanded access to sourcebooks changes this to some degree.
3. I had limited chrysopoeia with the intent that whatever gold accumulated would be minimally (and largely for flavor purposes or interactions with NPCs), but I guess I had not considered the ramifications of Midas Touch; an oversight if there ever was one. I may have to change the material to something less easily abused. Your suggestion might work as well; I will give it some thought before deciding.
4. Mercurial Opposition is based off of the mirror of opposition, and the lack of control is another limiting factor. That doesn't mean its balanced, however, and I may just have to drop it if I cannot find a suitable solution.
5. Regarding Amphoteric, it was intended to converge all the spell pools, so yes, 10 * class level. Again, I'm not really seeing the problem compared to wizard, especially if your spell list is restricted to the PHB.

Otherwise, this is a rather old work of mine, and I've generally moved on to per encounter balance rather than per day. I also see that this is really quite poor, as the first level is quite awful and you have to suffer through two levels of mediocrity to get some decent abilities, which just won't do. I'll see if I can't fix that in time. -- Jota 02:29, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Ice-nine?

The ice-nine you refer to, that's from some Kurt Vonnegut story where it can freeze an entire body of water, right? That sort of thing is far more interesting than the Full Metal Alchemist BS. -- Danzig 00:18, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

The ice-nine is a Vonnegut reference, yes. -- Jota 02:29, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Abiogenesis being based on elements

I was looking at this class and really feel it's pretty awesome! However, I was looking at abiogenesis and realized that maybe the monsters should carry an elemental template (depending on what elemental sign you have available to you). It would make abiogenesis a lot stronger but it would add flavor to the class. What do you think? -- 173.245.48.116 07:43, 22 October 2011 (MDT)

Rating

Power - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<it is as strong as any other hardcore spellcasting class and along with it's extra powers, it balances and rewards the choice of not multiclassing/prestiging (which is something you rarely find in base classes). The unique abilities merge and cooperate with each other very well.>>> --173.245.53.191 12:35, 7 January 2012 (MST)

Wording - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<it was written in a simple yet formal language, as expected to be seen.>>> --173.245.53.191 12:35, 7 January 2012 (MST)

Formatting - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<the format is easy to read and based on the typical format a D&D book would present it's classes.>>> --173.245.53.191 12:35, 7 January 2012 (MST)

Flavor - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<of the unique abilities and skills as well as their names and general originality.>>> --173.245.53.191 12:35, 7 January 2012 (MST)

Rating

Balance - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because as th class makes complete sense, it is weak at first and becomes REALLY strong. --108.216.31.15 12:54, 6 July 2013 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the way it was worded helped a lot to understand the complexity of the class with ease. The wording went over most possiblities and examples, too. --108.216.31.15 12:54, 6 July 2013 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 --108.216.31.15 12:54, 6 July 2013 (MDT)

Flavor - X/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because this class is based off of an anime show yet is really well drawn out to fit in th worlds of dungeons and dragons! Great job!! --108.216.31.15 12:54, 6 July 2013 (MDT)

Rating

Balance - X/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because This class is extremely overpowered. The spell point system is grossly inflated when compared to Unearthed Arcana's spell point system. At 20th level, this class has 200 levels of spells and 156 spells available using the PHB & Spell Compendium. Neither the sorcerer or the wizard come close. But even 1 spell can cause harm. Imagine if the player simply decides to cast summon monster IX 22 times; that'll ruin the GM's day. Even at the lower levels, you have a cleric fighting progression, 4+ skill points & d6 hit dice per level, light armor AND he can cast fireball. AND the class gets special abilities every level. --Alonzo (talk) 23:06, 29 May 2014 (MDT)

Wording - X/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because Obviously, the creator did his research when it came to naming. However, just because you understand it doesn't mean anyone else will. I had to reread this class several times to realize just how broken it was. --Alonzo (talk) 23:06, 29 May 2014 (MDT)

Formatting - X/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it's average. --Alonzo (talk) 23:06, 29 May 2014 (MDT)

Flavor - X/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it has flavor. It has it's very own niche, but it gets there with way too much. --Alonzo (talk) 23:06, 29 May 2014 (MDT)

Observations and Suggestions

Midas Touch: Allowing that much free gold into the PC's pockets could be disruptive. I would suggest that the transformation be into iron pyrite (fools gold), instead of gold. The material does have some uses (such as making acid), and also degrades when exposed to air and water, It would eliminate the majority of the cash issue while providing some alchemical supply material, but would weather away in a few years if left lying about.

Mercurial Opposition: As written an alchemist could end up killing himself through loss of constitution when facing multiple opponents, and its just a bit overpowerd without some limits. I suggest that the number of duplicates formed be limited to the alchemist's constitution modifier. The aclsemist still taking 2 points of CON damage per duplicate. Example: An alchemist with 18 CON could create no more than 4 duplicates (1 for each of 4 different opponents), and would suffer a total of 8 CON damage.

Adaptogen: It should be noted that the alchemist takes damage fromthe initial attack as normal, then gains resistance in response. I would also change the amount of resistance to class level plus CON modifier.

Thaumaturgy: I would suggest this be limited to once per month.

Abiogenisis: I suggest the following changes to this ability. The creature summoned must be an elemental. Also, you must have unlocked the element of any elemental to be able to summon it (unlock air to be able to summon air elementals). The alchemist may summon an elemental of up to 1/2 his class level at maximum. Each element unlocked allows the alchemist to use this ability once per day, limited to to one elemental per day of each type unlocked (for example a 7th level alchemist could summon one fire and one water elemental each day, with a maximum of 3HD each).

Brew Potion: I would like to add, as a show of the alchemist's expertise, that beginning at 12th level he be able to brew potions based upon higher level spells than 3rd. The limitation being spells of 1/3 the alchemist's class level (maximum 6th level spell), rounded down. Thus at 12th level he could brew potions based upon 4th level spells, at 15th level this would increase to 5th level spells, ad at 18th + levels he could brew postion based upon 6th level spells. --Elohim (talk) 10:35, 30 August 2014 (MDT)